thanks for watching. i will see you back here tomorrow at 5 pm eastern, for another live hour of politicsnation. american voices with alicia menendez starts right now on msnbc. >> thank you so much, as always, reverend sharpton. hello everyone. i am alicia menendez. new developments this hour in the ongoing saga involving mar-a-lago and donald trump. the saturday, new insight into what led to this week's search by the fbi, for classified documents from the trump era. nbc news now able to report that former president trump's treatment of government documents, top secret and otherwise, have longer alarmed his advisers. one former aide describing trump as a quote, back right. national security adviser john bolton says, trump, quote at a habit of taking stuff that you would never see again. this evening, reporting that suggests trump legal team may have lied about classified

records at mar-a-lago. according to the new york times, one of trump's attorneys signed a statement back in june, telling the doj that all sensitive material at mar-a-lago had been returned. that is according to four sources with knowledge of the document, which nbc has not reviewed. on monday, the fbi seized 11 sets of classified documents from trump's post presidency home, including records with the highest levels of security clearance. the search warrant on friday reveals the doj is in the throes of investigating possible obstruction of justice and violations of the espionage act. one potential charge carries a punishment of up to 20 years in prison. i want to be clear here. when it comes to potential violations of the espionage act, despite its name, it comprises much more than actual spying, including to refuse to return classified documents. breaking news from capitol hill, short time ago, the chairs of the house oversight and intelligence committees,

requesting a damage assessment of the mar-a-lago documents. it's what trump has to say about all of this. he claims he declassified the records the fbi recovered. that is from one side of his novel. from the other side, trump claims the records the fbi recovered were planted. regardless which version of his excuse is correct, both could be hard to prove. but one thing is without question that the contents of these documents carry deadly consequences in the wrong hands. we're not just talking about america secrets, the secrets of america's friends and foes alike. >> i was thinking about, this and thinking about world leaders who are watching this develop, and thinking to themselves, what kind of information is in a fair about our own weapon systems, government intelligence sources. and also, it could potentially put a lot of lives at risk. we're talking about sources and people throughout, you know, the international community here, that if this information

got into the wrong hands, their lives could be in danger. >> joining me down, hugo lowell, congressional reporter from the guardian. and former u.s. attorney, joyce vance. she's an msnbc contributor and professor at the university of alabama school of law. good to see you both. joyce, i want to start with you. let's talk about this new reporting from the times. what would it mean if trump's own attorney falsified a statement to the doj? >> so, what this does, alicia, is a tight lights how dependent we are on understanding the facts, what's actually happened here, before we can reach any understanding of whether this was really just an effort by doj to reclaim these classified materials, or whether this is an investigation that's pointed, this perhaps headed towards indictment. because that will be heavily fact dependent. situations like the one that you are discussing, that we are newly learning about tonight, where people affirmatively took

steps to conceal least important materials. it wasn't just a mistake, or perhaps, a certain amount of ineptitude, although gross negligence can be a criminal violation. if this looks like an intentional effort to keep these documents at mar-a-lago, to cover up the fact that classified materials were missing, then we are in a situation where there will be a lot more scrutiny and consideration of potential prosecution. >> joyce, i just want to dig into a word you used their, which was ineptitude. because that has often been a defense that we've heard the trump team use for a variety of conduct and misconduct. so, i wonder when you hear aids, former aides, saying he would often take stuff, we always worried about his mismanagement. if that is the direction that they are moving in, that he simply didn't know how to handle these documents, not that there was anything nefarious going on. >> look, as a prosecutor looking at that sort of

situation, i would be highly suspicious. this is the president of the united states. not only has been repeatedly briefed by his white house counsel and others on his staff about how records retention works. this is also the man who campaigned on locker up, on his complaints about hillary clinton, handling of classified information. i think every statement he made about hillary clinton would come into evidence, if there were a criminal trial, to show that he was aware of the landscape, he understood the obligations, and he also understood that it was a problem, when people didn't comply with them. of course, ultimately, clinton was cleared, because there was no knowing engagement, no knowing involvement with classified material. she certainly made no effort to pass materials on to other people. turned everything over, when she was asked to. the trump situation is very different, but i think he is not some sort of a novice player on the chessboard in here. >> and if that were invoked in that situation, talk about

things coming in full circle. hugo, the reason we are talking about this is because these classifications, they tell you that documents that were in hand where highly sensitive, right? that they were concerned about the damage that could be done, right? there could be grave damage based on this. it is why you now have congress asking for a damage assessment. do you have a sense of what it is they're asking for, what they're looking for? >> yeah, so, a letter went out from the house intelligence and house oversight committees to the director of national intelligence. and basically, they're seeking at this moment, a briefing on the kind of damage that could be done to the united states and two potential allies of the united states, as a result of these documents being in property kept at mar-a-lago. i talked to some people close to those committees, and there is an expectation that members of those committees, and it setting, might ask about the

kinds of documents that the fbi recovered from mar-a-lago. so i think that's kind of where converse is at, certainly in trump world, there is a recognition tonight that you know a lot of these documents are really sensitive. and people are starting to come around to the fact that maybe they shouldn't have been at mar-a-lago. >> you go, you have the former president is denying that these records containing any record. whatever you learned about the warrant from other sources? >> if you talk to a bunch of people, and one of the focuses right now is on what's in the affidavit specifically, and who in trump world was getting fbi formation, trying to find a raft. the level of paranoia and distrust in the circle of the level former president exploded. on friday, a lot of people were talking about maybe it's eight who recently left trump, and people who are no longer on payroll, people who are about to leave mar-a-lago. and now, the distrust is shifting to people on the

operation side at mar-a-lago. people involved in the hotel business. they're looking at some of the people who knew the layout of mar-a-lago, where the rooms were, where things were being kept, everyone is looking around thinking, you know, i can't trust the person right behind me. >> right, for a group that was already paranoid, the paranoia has only increased. joyce, i wonder if this next question ties into that, which is why might the justice department have subpoenaed security camera footage from mar-a-lago earlier this year? >> one of the most pressing issues here is the security issue that you and hugo have been talking about, and whether the national security has been damaged because these documents were in mar-a-lago. that means there has to be a lot of interest in whether there were visitors to mar-a-lago, who were in areas where this material was stored, or who were perhaps present when it was pulled out. video is a great way of assessing those kinds of risks, and i am sure that it will be scrutinized, minute by minute, if not second by second, by

folks at doj, have now managed to get their hands on it. >> you go, one of the many things we've been following as been the gop response to all of this, sort of the early moments, as this news we're pre-breaking. they were basically cutting and pasting from the former president's statement, and putting it into the twitter feed, reiterating his own defense. you have gop representative, marjorie taylor greene, sanctions going to draft articles and impeachment for attorney general garland. you have republicans going after doj, going after the fbi. but in light of the most recent developments, are you seeing a pivot from republicans on capitol hill? >> i would say it's less of a pivot, and more of a split. i think if serious republicans who are on some of the more powerful committees. people on the house intelligence committee, republicans on the house oversight and judiciary committees, i think when the word is unsealed, they will perhaps send more publicans on the hill. i was there yesterday for the vote on the inflation reduction

act, where we got a couple of republican members. and in that sense, if it really was to do it in the nuclear weapons, if it really was to do with ts sci, top level, classified documents, then there's a real problem here, because those sort of documents should have been kept in secured government facilities. i think you have the less serious republicans, and house caucus members that are still very much allied with trump, still repeating trump's claims. and they're very much focused on the fact whether these stockings are classified or a declassified. of course, as we have all recorded, if you look at the warrant, the statutes in the warrant, they don't actually have, they don't really talk about whether those documents are cast by, they were kept at mar-a-lago. >> joyce, as i often have to remind myself, the audience, i mean, there is a cornucopia of legal issues that the former president is facing. so how does this, specific investigation, compared to the several other cases implicating trump? >> there is some folks who

always felt that if the former president was going to be brought down by some sort of criminal prosecution that it would have to center on the insurrection, on january six. i don't think anyone really saw this first sort of shot across the ballot by the justice department to be something that would involve. you know, these sorts of statutes that are only infrequently prosecuted, the sort of missed placement, misuse of classified material. but as we learn more about the facts here, this is increasingly a very serious moment. and if we reach the point where the evidence suggests that this material was taken to mar-a-lago and transferred to other people, and perhaps, damaged our security or the security of other countries. and i want to be careful to say, that is not that scenario right now. there is no evidence and it's been publicly disclosed that leads us to believe this. right now, it's being portrayed as sloppiness by the former president.

but as the facts evolve, and we learn more, perhaps, something of what's in the affidavit, it could be that the implications of this situation are so serious that the people who are responsible will face prosecution. and this could sort of be the short cut into the criminal justice system, if you'll think of that as the freeway, this could be the on ramp, rather than some of the other charges people have been very focused on. >> joyce, i gotta ask you. and this may be an impossible question to answer, so always good about telling me if that is. when you hear hugo and other reporters describe the deep paranoia that is currently happening in trump world, in your history of trying cases, once a group begins to become so deeply paranoid, how does that then change the contours of a case? >> well, that's often a good thing for prosecutors because one of the best ways to assess

evidence and put together a case is to have cooperating witnesses from the inside. and i was always agnostic, whether those were people who are adjacent, who came forward, it shocked me, whether they were participants in crime who wanted to cut a deal and save themselves, and testify. it was all good. the better of a birds eye view that you can get into it was actually going on, what people were saying, what they were doing, and then, back up and corroborate that with evidence, which might be phone records, travel records, documents that would be innocuous without the collaborating, the cooperating witnesses testimony. that support of makes for a good prosecution case. if the paranoia inside of trump world causes people to be concerned about themselves and speak to law enforcement, and begin to offer the truth, that is all good because this is all an exercise in getting to the truth. this isn't a witch hunt involving the former president or anyone else.

this is a serious situation with criminal implications. the justice department's job is to learn what happened, to secure any documents that were we spilled in the situation. and hold people accountable, via prosecution, if appropriate, no matter who they are. >> hugo, joyce, thank you both so much for getting us started. all that, just a tip of the iceberg, when it comes to the fbi search in mar-a-lago. ahead, the constitutional debate is creating specifically, about trump's ability to hold office again. later, following the money. if you have followed donald trump's finances, like journalist david cay johnston. he calls these new developments disturbing. he's gonna join us to explain why. and later, the inflation reduction act about to become law. what will democrats make their case to voters, serving a prove that democracy still works? and a new twist in america's fight against covid, just in time for back to school, after uché blackstock with what

parents need to know. but first to richard lui with the other big stories we're tracking this hour at msnbc. which? >> alicia, good to see. you're the man accused of stabbing author salman rushdie pled not guilty this afternoon, to charges of attempted murder and assault. rushdie remains hospitalized right now where he was put on a ventilator following surgery. today, president biden condemned that attack, bracing the offers refusal to the silenced over the years. actor anne haake has died after one week crashing into her car in the house in suburban los angeles. doctors declaring her brain dead, friday, and make the decision to take her off life support. the lapd is no longer investigating the cause of her crash. and the southern baptist convention says the justice department is investigating explosive allegations of sexual abuse in its church. earlier this year, on outside investigator agency released a 288-page report, detailing that abuse. the second largest faith group in the country says it will fully cooperate with that

investigation. american voices we'll be right back, right after this short break. ♪ ♪ ♪ am remained calm. because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose.

welcome to your world. your why. what drives you? what do you want to leave behind? that's your why. it's your purpose, and we will work with you every step of the way to achieve it. >> as we have been reporting,

the house oversight committee, now requesting a damage assessment of the classified documents used from donald trump's mar-a-lago estate. the fbi collected the documents to search earlier this week, that left trump and his supporters fuming. meanwhile, democrats have been in high spirits, celebrating the passage of a historic inflation reduction act. >> it is huge. it is historic. this is a big deal. you know, there is lots of bills that i vote on, that i think are important. they have nowhere near the impact that this could have. >> we are gonna focus on that word, impact. president biden's plans to send the bill into law next week, and a major victory, victory, not just for democrats, but for all americans, all without a

single republican vote. joining us, senior editor at insider, kadia tubman. it kadia, the to see you as always. can you sort of walk us through what is in this legislation, because it went through many iterations, specifically, which parts of this bill are gonna have the greatest impact, and whether americans are gonna start to feel that and back? >> good to see you, alicia. this is the sweeping climate change, health care tax package, and it's major. as we just heard, it's huge. you can feel the high spirits coming from washington d.c. right now. but it's really gonna be down to is really how we see what's in this bill translated to the american people, because really, what they're gonna be asking for right now is what's in it for me. and right now, it's gonna be a huge task for democrats, partly because there's a lot in this bill. the most important parts of their gun after recognizes that there are gonna be nearly 1.5 million jobs added within the next ten years. we're gonna lower energy costs. we're gonna see, but in pollution. we're gonna see more incentives to go greener. and then, about, that the

bigger picture when it comes to climate change, we are gonna see 40% cut in carbon emissions over the next ten years. i mean, that is a major deal. right now, the big picture needs to be broken down, especially as we see lawmakers and senators headed back to their state and districts. >> you know, i think so much of the subtext of your answer. it's not likely that people are gonna feel this in a very, very direct way between now and november. they are really operating on the promise of the fact that something is getting don, and that there will be relief in the days, weeks, months ahead. i spoke with congressman jamie raskin last night, and he expressed that passing this bill was actually critical to democracy. let's listen to what he said. >> the party of democracy, the democratic party is showing not just that we are defending democracy, but we are making democracy work for the people, over the worst possible obstruction that we are seeing from the other side. but we have hung together.

we have stayed focused. and we have delivered this most extraordinary legislation. the most important environmental legislation, certainly in the century, and maybe, in american history. >> kadia, i want to play that sound from congressman raskin, because i think while there is very important stuff that's gonna be delivered through this legislation, as you said, on climate, on health care, new jobs. there is also just the secondary piece of this which is, it is showing americans, who are potentially suspect of government, especially after what we've seen over the past few years, that government can actually get things done, and that in this case, it is a democrats inside government who are getting something done. in some ways, it feels as though that is the most powerful message for democrats going into the midterms. >> absolutely. it's not just that democracy is working right now. it's that democracy, even under attack, it's working right now. and that is a very big deal. we've seen over the past years, year and a half, two years, it's been a difficult run in washington, d.c., to see anything get done.

but to see this a level of change happen at such a big package, big put forward to the american people, that's a very big deal. what we do know is that what's gonna come next is how will democrats capitalize on this legislative success, because we saw even after the affordable care act, passed after 2010, that didn't really mean smooth sailing towards elections. and so, right now, as we head to the midterms, really translating that, we are seeing democracy work. we are seeing government work. it's gonna be critical, if not crucial, for democrats to really get across to voters in the fall. >> right, there is so many atmospherics from covid to, whether it's inflation or peoples perception of inflation. and then, the ongoing investigations into the former president, these questions about the future of democracy, so many elements going into that mid term. kadia tubman, my friend, as always, thank you so much for being with us. next, how citizen trump may have broken a law that

president trump made a felony for political purposes? and it is triggering a ton of constitutional debate, including, if you will be allowed to go office again. later, the realities of a post roe america happening in nebraska, and one of the many women in nebraska, working to help people find care. stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ can do just about anything. thanks, dad. that's right, robert. and it's never too early to learn you could save with america's number one motorcycle insurer. that's right, jamie. but it's not just about savings. it's about the friends we make along the way. you said it, flo. and don't forget to floss before you brush. your gums will thank you. -that's right, dr. gary. -jamie? sorry, i had another thought so i got back in line. what was it? [ sighs ] i can't remember.

(dad) we have to tell everyone that we just switched to verizon's new welcome unlimited plan, for just $30. (daughter) i've already told everyone! (nurse) wait... did you say verizon for just $30? (mom) it's their best unlimited price ever. (cool guy) $30...that's awesome. (dad) yeah, and it's from the most reliable 5g network in america. (woman) for $30 a line, i'm switching now. (mom) yeah, it's easy and you get $960 when you switch the whole family. (geek) wow... i've got to let my buddies know. (geek friend) we're already here! (vo) the network you want. the price you love. only from verizon. this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. fasenra is not a rescue medication or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur.

ask your doctor about fasenra. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete balanced nutrition for strength and energy. woo hoo! ensure, complete balanced nutrition with 27 vitamins and minerals. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪ frustrated with occasional digestive upsets? with 30 grams of protein. align women's probiotic naturally helps promote a balanced gut and soothe occasional digestive upsets. plus, it supports vaginal health. it's recommended by gastroenterologists two-times more than any other probiotic brand. try align.

large out-of-state corporations have set their sights on california. they've written prop 27, to allow online sports betting. they tell us it will fund programs for the homeless. but read prop 27's fine print. 90% of profits go to out-of-state corporations, leaving almost nothing for the homeless. no real jobs are created here. but the promise between our state and our sovereign tribes would be broken forever. these out-of-state corporations don't care about california. but we do. stand with us. we got the house! you did! pods handles the driving. pack at your pace. store your things until you're ready. then we deliver to your new home - across town or across the country.

pods, your personal moving and storage team. so we need something super distinctive... dad's work, meet daughter's playtime. thankfully, meta portal auto pans and zooms to keep you in frame. and the meeting on track. meta portal. the smart video calling device that makes work from home work for you. >> new nbc reporting suggests former president trump's cavalier attitude towards sensitive documents led to the fbi search of mar-a-lago. sources describe the exit from the white house as, quote, chaotic, with workers, frantically tossing documents and other items into boxes. trump should have known better because of a law he himself signed as president. the washington post reports, quote, if trump is found to have violated federal law in removing and retaining classified documents without authorization, he could be convicted of a felony, punishable by five years in

prison. and that conviction, a felony carrying that punishment because of a law signed by president donald trump. irony. a lot trump and self sign could make him a felon. and he did it to attack hillary clinton's use of a private email server back in 2016. >> i think she should be in jail for what she did with her emails, okay? she should be in jail. >> hillary clinton is disqualified from being the commander-in-chief. >> for others, the consequences of misusing classified information has been swift and serious, but not for hillary clinton. >> i can tell you was this, had you done it, or had i done it, i would been of the intelligence committee. my classification would have been removed. >> instead of being held accountable, hillary is running for president. >> unbelievable! fast forward, this week's unprecedented search of a former president's home, nbc

news now reporting fbi agents recovered a trove of top secret and other highly classified documents from mar-a-lago. joining me now to discuss, former u.s. attorney, harry litman. he is now host of the talking ex podcast. legal affairs columnist for the l.a. times, msnbc contributor, melissa murray. she's also a professor at the and why you school of law. melissa, i try not to use too much sound of trump, before the times, unless i really feel like it paints a picture, and it's relevant to what might be happening, going forward. you had him attacking hillary clinton over her emails. he strengthened penalties or misuse of classified information. he should have known you can't just store government documents at a resort. >> i mean, you should have known. and he didn't know, apparently, or maybe he did. we don't know. regardless of how you slice it, it's either gross negligence,

or it is intentional recovery of these classified documents in the storage, and a place that is not actually secure. and i can only imagine that hillary clinton, sitting somewhere in her home, stroking her hair right now and laughing. because this is absolutely hysterical, that the person who is crying to lock her up because she mishandled sensitive information on her private emails is now sitting with a cache of a massive cash of documents that are free incredibly sensitive, and potentially, exposed some criminal liability. >> the cat image, i gotta tell, you it's gonna stay with me, melissa. we know that what she is doing is tweeting out, but her a males, you know, sort of sending people to her sights so they can begin to spend money, supporting her efforts to bolster democracy. harry, the search for it cited three statutes, i wanna walk through them. espionage act, obstruction of justice, criminal handing of government records. what does that list tell you

about this investigation? >> that it was all driven, i'm trying to get a fearlessness out of my head i'm. it was all driven by his cavalier, more than cavalier, dishonest retention of the documents. melissa is right. the inception, maybe you can argue, carelessness. but this goes on for over a year, and you get a subpoena. and we learned today, a lawyer for him signed a piece of paper for a guy, saying, we have given up everything classified. at that point, he is intentionally keeping extremely dangerous documents, and they can bring exceptionally grave harm, that's the term, to the national security. exceptionally it's actually a cg factor now that you want to figure out what is the landscape for what's he's exposed to, because they had a separate reason that they had to go in, and get the documents and that he was a lying about. normally, if you, in the wake

of a search like this, you hunker down and get ready for the indictment, that's coming soon. here, because there was a separate reason, that may not eventuate, on the other hand, they do have this treasure trove of evidence. law enforcement will be combing through it, and they will see potential evidence of these three crimes. and the ironic twist that you pointed out as one thing, but the other two ones, espionage, and 1519, heavy, heavy hit. 20 years, potentially. >> you just threw a side note there, that i want to ask you about, talking about the attorney who signed off on this, back in june, set for a guy. because i think that there is a variety of ways this potentially plays out, right? that person genuinely believed that there were no documents left or they were led to believe that there were no documents left. i mean, there are a range of options for what could happen there, and then, the consequences changes the result? >> very true. and of course, for trump, it changes as a result. that's the first, i say poor

guy, but from a prosecutor's point of view, it's what's a great fish to catch, because either way, either scenario, you detail, they need to bring him or her in, and get the facts that the person thinks they are innocent, fine. but they need to explain if they are guilty, there are a prime candidate to cooperate against the bigger fish, the former president of the united states. so this is the sort of think that the law enforcement side now will really be excited about, maybe that's the wrong term, but will really be focused on bringing him in and getting him, or her, to explain just what happened. >> melissa, i believe that harry and i worked together earlier this week, as this news broke. and there was something that at the time no one's pointing out, which was the possibility that one of the consequences of this could be former president trump no longer being able to hold office ever again. i think in the days since that,

there has been a lot more showing over what would that actually look like, both in terms of a new other republican challenging him on those merits, you know, potentially becoming an actual case of litigation. i want to ask you, to put your professor law had, is that really still in contention here? >> at least, the seems to be a super hypothetical for the cloth. and the real conflict here, article two of the constitution, which describes the qualifications for president. and the statute which provides that you can be disqualified from holding public office, if you've been convicted, under this provision. because the statute essentially supersedes the constitution's qualification by disqualifying from the presidency someone who has been convicted under that particular portion of the statute, the argument would be that it impermissibly alters the requirements for president, and violation of an actual constitutional amendment. the statute that does it, not the prosecution itself. i think whether or not that

argument hangs together is going to be subject to litigation. if in fact the president is charged and convicted under this provision, and if people try to use it to prevent him from being a candidate in 2024. >> a super hypothetical would normally be terrible cable news. melissa, i bet in this case, the stakes are so high that everyone is happy to have that assessment. harry and melissa, thank you both so much. next, warfare on reproductive rights playing out in yet another state. this time, and nebraska. we're gonna speak to someone working to help people get the care they need, no matter what. later, what the cdc is saying about covid and schools with kids getting back to classes across this country. ask for advice? stick with us. stick with us. taken with a statin, leqvio can lower bad cholesterol and keep it low with two doses a year. side effects were injection site reaction, joint pain, urinary tract infection, diarrhea, chest cold, pain in legs or arms, and shortness of breath. with leqvio, lowering cholesterol becomes

just one more thing life throws your way. ask your doctor about leqvio. lower. longer. leqvio. >> two states, given the okay

to further restrict reproductive rights. this week, judges and both idaho and louisiana, allowing near total abortion bans to take effect. in idaho, and you'll also lets

people sue abortion providers, if a pregnancy in their family's terminated, which idaho's house minority leader calls, ridiculous. >> having lost that have no exception for the health of a mother, and that criminalize doctors in these very gray area situations, these were not designed to the intended to actually take effect. these were lost, jimmy, that were designed with the intent to get the endorsement of right to life groups, and to get donations and a primary. >> for now, some temporary good news in nebraska. the governor has declined to convene a special session, after republicans fell short on the votes needed to pass their abortion ban. so, at least for today, abortions remain illegal in nebraska for the first 20 weeks of pregnancy. but it's not easing fears about what could happen next. joining me now is chelsea, founder about nebraska services. good to see you. the nebraska legislature, only three votes away from restricting abortion access. tell me how you, other health

care providers of the states are responding to what, i guess is considered a narrow victory? >> yeah, thanks for having me, alicia. i mean, we are happy, of course, to hear the news that they're not planning to hold a special session, but i will say myself and other reproductive rights and justice partners, we are on the edge of our seats, and working very hard to make sure that whatever does come down the pipeline, if it's, now january, in a regular session, that we are prepared. we are also being very proactive and are hoping that we can pull out a lot of energy the session and prevent the bands, and also, supporting bills that will actually be centered around people's reproductive rights and justice. >> i thought we heard from the minority leader in idaho a second ago was really interesting, right? this idea that some of these people of the legislation, they weren't drafted as things that would actually happen. they weren't drafted as things

that necessarily were seen as being enacted into law. they were drafted as a ways to really mobilize people getting to sort of people to commit to a specific political ideology and frame or. i wonder if you agree with that assessment, what it tells you that we're now in a moment where things that were once imagined as hypotheticals, the radicals, are now becoming very real, and what you understand is the broader stakes here? >> yeah, i mean, i agree in some cases that some of the laws that folks are trying to pass across the country are not realistic, and they know that they won't make much headway. and there are more for campaigns and optics, as we come next to another election in the midterms. but i do think that the other side has been working as a collective force for decades, to pass these laws across states. and they've done so, i suppose, in order to bring us to the place that we are in today. >> sorry, you cut out there for

a minute. i wanted to ask you, you also lead the hope clinic in illinois. can you talk to me about what has changed there since the supreme court overturned roe? >> yeah, since roe fell, the end of june, our patient volume has increased about 40%. we are one of two providers in southern illinois, currently. it is 6% of our patients have actually come out of state, so the majority that of the folks that we see are from places like missouri, arkansas, tennessee, kentucky, alabama, texas, a lot of southern and western states. would i also say is aside from being inundated with folks who are forced to travel hours and sometimes hundreds of thousands of miles for basic health care, the need for support that they need, right? the resources to be able to get that health care -- so we are doing our best to work with lots of really great

partners have been around for a long time, like the abortion fund, access coalition, who have a really large focus in the midwest, and support peoples access to care. >> you just said, you have seen a 40% uptick in cases. if i understood properly, a majority of the patients being served are actually coming from out of state. and in addition to that, you layer on what you are talking about, not just the need to be able to pay for the care itself. but also things like, if you are traveling, you have your travel fees. you are often taking a day or two often off work, if you are an hourly worker that means you are losing wages. so, there isn't entire set of issues that comes with these bans. now i want to layer on to that the fact you have indiana's abortion ban that is going to take effect in just over a month. how concerned are you are keeping up with demand with your clinic? >> right. so, first i think it's important to understand, like you said, there are a lot of

other barriers people are facing now on bands and being forced to travel. a lot of times, folks don't think about what those are. specifically, near a lot of abortion funds, we have to find ways to not only support the cost of a procedure, but to also support folks traveling, hotels, gas money, childcare money, just so they can be able to eat while they are in town, food, so it's really a whole cohort of things we have to address, wraparound services for folks. >> i think in terms of building capacity, we have been very focused on that and we have hired quite a few [inaudible] staff and have been training them, we are moving from a 5 to 6-day clinic model, surely here in the near future. and we anticipate to be able to sustain that increase throughout the year. >> chelsea souder, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. ahead, new reporting by nbc news on trump's view and attitude towards handling america's secrets. and what led the former

president being tied up and yet another criminal investigation. but first, it is back to school across america. and with the return, comes new cdc rules. dr. uché blackstock i want to make a vow after this. er this. libertymutual.com they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need... and a blowtorch. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ "peace of mind." such a big, beautiful idea. and for us at booking.com this means - free cancellation on most bookings. it's a bit functional. but we'll gladly be functional. so you can be free. booking.com booking.yeah ♪ so i climbed into the cab, and then i settled down inside ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man ♪ ♪ of travel i've had my share, man ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere ♪ ♪♪ i think i changed my mind about these glasses.

yeah, it happens. that's♪ why visionworks gives you 100 days to change your mind. it's simple. anything else i can help you with? like what? visionworks. see the difference.

♪♪ choosing miracle-ear was a great decision. like when i decided to host family movie nights. miracle-ear made it easy. i just booked an appointment and a certified hearing care professional evaluated my hearing loss and helped me find the right device calibrated to my unique hearing needs. now i enjoy every moment. the quiet ones and the loud ones. make a sound decision. call 1-800 miracle now, and book your free hearing evaluation. lily! welcome to our third bark-ery. oh, i can tell business is going through the “woof”. but seriously we need a reliable way to help keep everyone connected from wherever we go. well at at&t we'll help you find the right wireless plan for you. so, you can stay connected to all your drivers

and stores on america's most reliable 5g network. that sounds just paw-fect. terrier-iffic i labra-dore you round of a-paws at&t 5g is fast, reliable and secure for your business. >> it is back to school across hi, i'm eileen. i live in vancouver, washington and i write mystery novels. dogs have been such an important part of my life. i have flinn and a new puppy. as i was writing, i found that i just wasn't as sharp and i new i needed to do something so i started taking prevagen. i realized that i was much more clear and i was remembering the details that i was supposed to. prevagen keeps my brain working right. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. america. and there is new guidance for how districts handle covid on campus. the cdc announces students can

still come to school if they have exposed to the virus. the cdc says there is no need to quarantine an entire class if only one student has tested positive. but they do say, students with high exposure need to wear a mask in class for ten days. also, social distancing no longer required. cdc says schools can also ease up on screening students and workers for symptoms. this change, as the washington post suggests, indicators increasing immunity against the virus, allowing them to focus efforts on protecting those most vulnerable. joining me now, uché blackstock, founder and ceo of advancing health care equity, and an msnbc contributor. dr. uché blackstock, i wanted to see your face as i read that piece from the washington post, to see a preview of where you would go with this. but talk to us about what this new cdc guidance means in practice, and what this relaxed tragedy is going to look like going forward. >> essentially, we are almost

going back to sort of pre-pandemic normal. children no longer have to quarantine if they are exposed. they no longer have to test at days five and seven. so, there is a test to stay approach. and if they are exposed, they can stay in class and they have to test in days five and seven. and if they are negative for covid, they can stay in class. other still recommend some [inaudible] masking. but it's definitely a recommendation. alicia menendez, we have talked about this so many times. i feel there's almost a paradox with relaxing these guidelines at this time. we still -- this country has over 1 million people dead from covid. we are leaders in that way. we have 500 to 700 people die a day from covid. 40,000 people hospitalized. and we are heading into the cold weather. people are going back to school. and i am concerned. i am concerned, so there is this paradox they are, of what

is actually going to happen by relaxing these guidelines. and i can understand if the public actually is a little bit confused. because if we look at the numbers, things don't look very good. but then on one hand, the cdc and the biden administration are well axing the guidelines. and so there's really sort of a cognitive dissidents there. and i think the public really needs to understand why the decisions are being made. and to be honest with you, you alicia, they say, because there is more population immunity, the fact is that only a fraction of people over 50 years old have had their second booster. so, we really don't have that population immunity that they say, and we have these new variants. we don't know how they're going to behave, right? we don't know with the next variant will be able to do. so, i think it's better to keep some of these guidelines in place, especially if there are surges. and we know that they are going to be surges to come. >> that is the overall guidance, of course. educators will still make

decisions. faculty members will still make decisions, parents will still make decisions. what is your guidance, then, as we head into the fall? >> yeah, so, alicia, people always do ask me, do your children still mask wear masks to school? my children -- i have a five and seven year old -- they still wear masks. because, for quite awhile, transmission levels are still quite high. so, my children still mask in school. if i were to hear of an exposure in their class, i would definitely test them. and unfortunately now, we don't know if we will be notified experience if there is a positive case in class. but i would definitely still test them if we are in high-risk environments. we still have tons of rapid tests at home and i will be requesting more, so that i contested. and i will also make sure that the rates of children, especially elementary age children, and elementary school age children who are vaccinated, are still quite low. we still need more children vaccinated.

so, i would say if there are any parents on the fence about getting their children vaccinated and boosted, to please do so before the school year starts. >> i want to switch gears, and i can't believe i'm asking you about this -- and undressed polio appearance. -- they found the virus in the city's waste water. just hawkish through what you are watching for here. >> right, i know. who would if that we would be having this conversation in 2022? but this really points to the work that we have to do to increase vaccination rates in certain areas of the country. and here in new york city and outside of the city, there are communities were less than two thirds of the children have received their primary vaccinations. polio is a vaccine preventable disease. about [inaudible] percent of people who get it, develop meningitis. about one and 200 people will develop paralysis. so, there's a vaccine out there that's 99% effective. and we really need to make sure we are doing our reaches communities, where the vaccination rates are low, to

really show them, there is a simple solution to this that actually can have a potentially deadly road salt. >> dr. blackstock, as always, thank you for talking to all of this with us. at the top of the hour, new details emerging about the mar-a-lago search. and with the presidents lawyers told the doj about sensitive documents or to trump's resort. plus, investigative journalist david cay johnston has spent years looking to trump's finances and will tell us what has been concerned. and later, cruelty by design, from family separations at the southern border, from busing migrants to blue cities, how long will voters let the gop get away with it? get away with it we've been coming here, since 1868. there's a lot of cushy desk jobs out there, but this is my happy place. there are millions of ways to make the most of your land. learn more at deere.com >> a, everyone, i'm alicia

menendez, it's a new hour, and we have got breaking news to update you on about the fbi search for classified documents at mar-a-lago. the chairs have two key congressional committees now wanting answers about the possible damage of classified material being hoarded at trump's florida home. and what about the money trail that journalists david cay johnston, who knows donald trump's finances and business ventures bed of the most -- is here to explain why he is so concerned. and also, this hour, cruelty by design, from separating families at the border and new bombshell revelations about how that came to be, to busing migrants to blue cities for no other reason than to stick it to the dems. texas democrat julián castro will join us. plus,