tv Morning Joe MSNBC August 16, 2022 3:00am-6:00am PDT
concerning the protection of classified information. no one will be above the law. >> and irony dead this morning. >> boom. >> donald trump -- >> that was it. we're there. >> -- in 2016, promising to enforce laws on classified material. good morning -- >> wait, wait, hold on a second. can we hear that again? i've got to say, i'm usually pretty good with this stuff. >> willie, do you feel like hearing it again? >> yeah, i didn't get all of it. >> okay. >> there's some i didn't hear, yeah. >> in my administration, i'm going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. no one will be above the law. >> willie, he was very determined, all classified information. it was emphatic. it came from his gut there, you could tell he really meant it.
>> very clear, too, that no one, no one, including a president of the united states, is above the law. by the way, today is the six-year anniversary of that speech in indiana. happy anniversary to the president, as the fbi goes through his documents this morning. >> what a long road it's been. >> you know, he actually, i guess, in 2018, willie, he passed a law. he signed a law that actually made the protection of classified material even stronger. >> that is a good thing to do. >> it is a good thing to do. he said in the campaign -- >> law and order party. >> -- he was going to protect all classified information. so says it in the campaign. willie, he actually passes legislation. >> kept his word. >> he signs it, comes into law. that the penalties for not protecting classified information going to be even tougher because of hillary clinton's emails.
>> yeah, remember the context of that speech six years ago was all about hillary clinton and the emails and the private server that she had. it was the focus of his campaign. now, we have, obviously, the much more serious allegation here that the fbi is looking into, that a president of the united states sneaked into his briefcase on the way out of the white house, potentially classified, top secret documents. some reporting -- we don't know exactly what they all are -- that some may have been related to nuclear secrets. now, the president twisting in the wind as he tries to explain whether he did it, how he did it, whether the fbi may have planted it on him, whether barack obama did it, too. they haven't quite settled on an explanation for it because there really isn't a good one. >> well, he was working at home. >> that's what they said. >> yeah, so -- >> because he works so hard during executive time in the white house, that he had to take some top secret, classified information that could only be viewed in certain areas, had to take that. >> we have a lot to get to this
morning. >> a lot of stuff, actually, mika, coming together. >> mm-hmm. >> you look at the headlines yesterday, and, boy, it's almost like a legal reckoning. people keep asking, well, how do you get away with this? how do all of these people get away with calling secretaries of state and calling them to rig an election, to find enough votes to steal an election? you get senators from other states calling the secretary of state in georgia and he is saying, yeah, sounded like they were telling me to cast out legal votes. you have rudy giuliani trying to overturn an election, and doing it in nefarious ways. you, of course, have january 6th, and now you have eric herschmann being subpoenaed to testify in front of a grand jury for crimes that occurred on
january 6th. a lot of things actually coming together now. it's almost like, what do they say, the wheels of justice turn slowly, but they turn? i mean -- >> they do turn. we'll see. >> we're getting there. >> people may actually be held accountable. >> not get in front of it too much. federal prosecutors ask a judge to seal the affidavit in the fbi search of mar-a-lago, stating that it could hurt its investigation into classified documents and, quote, other high-profile investigations. >> criminal investigations, that is. >> this as the heat turns up on donald trump. one of his top media allies questions if it is time for republicans to move on. plus, one of the final tests of trump's sway over if republican party before november. two of his republican critics, lisa murkowski of alaska and liz cheney of wyoming, face voters
with two likely different outcomes. >> and sarah palin, i think, is running for congress, as well. >> steve kornacki joins us this hour with the latest. we'll break it all down. senate republicans reportedly cancel ad spending in several key swing states. what that might say about overall gop fundraising and the campaigns for dr. oz in pennsylvania, ron johnson in wisconsin, and blake masters in arizona. >> you know, willie, i'm not good at this politics thing. >> good to have the team back together again. >> i did see a couple episodes of the "west wing." is it bad when they take millions of dollars out of dr. oz's state, out of pennsylvania, the republicans, and cancel, what, $3 million? >> that's a bad sign. >> they're having trouble with donations. they're having trouble raising money. >> yes, joe. your viewing in re-runs of the "west wing" has served you well in this case.
it is a bad sign. it is a good sign for democrats who, not so long ago, had written off the united states senate perhaps. now, when you look at pennsylvania, when you look at ohio, when you look at georgia. >> the "wizard of oz." >> arizona, they feel they're back in the game. they could perhaps preserve the 50/50 split in the senate. j.d. vance is having trouble raising money in ohio, as well. tim ryan, a strong moderate democrat running there. a combination of bad candidates on the republican side, joe, and some good ones, like tim ryan, running in ohio on the other side. >> yeah. >> you've confused a few viewers. >> why? >> this j.d. vance you speak of -- >> joe, don't do it again. your imitation is not up to par. >> you don't want "south park," do you? >> you start "south park" and end up trumpy. it doesn't work. >> it does. >> we'll get there, joe. >> we're workshopping senator butters, okay? >> okay. >> we'll take it off broadway first. >> we're going to come back to
that in a minute. >> thank you. let's start with the justice department now asking a judge to keep the affidavit pertaining to the search warrant of mar-a-lago sealed, citing a need to protect the investigation and witnesses. the affidavit contains the government's reasoning for conducting the search. in a court filing submitted yesterday, federal prosecutors argued, quote, if disclosed, the affidavit would serve as a road map to the government's ongoing investigation, providing specific details about its direction and likely course. in addition, information about witnesses is particularly sensitive, given the high-profile nature of the matter, and could affect their willingness to cooperate. it could chill future cooperation and, quote, other high-profile investigations. early this morning, donald trump posted on truth social that he wants the affidavit released immediately, unredacted. >> okay. >> he also claimed a judge should recuse himself, but didn't explain why he should do that. let's bring in former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official
chuck rosenberg. congressional reporter for "the guardian," hugo howell. and white house bureau chief at "politico" and best-selling author of "the big lie," host of "way too early," jonathan lemire. to unseal an affidavit of this profile, what is going on behind the scenes here? >> willie, generalgenerally, it unusual to unseal a search warrant. eventually, everything becomes public, as everything in federal court must and should. but it is also not unusual, if you have an ongoing criminal investigation -- and joe was right to point out it is an ongoing criminal investigation -- to keep an affidavit sealed. you can keep it sealed for legitimate purposes, and i can't think of anything more legitimate than an ongoing investigation. you don't want evidence destroyed and witnesses tampered
with. when the dust settles, when the investigations are done, if charges are brought in open court, you should expect to see the affidavits. that's what normally happens. while there is an ongoing investigation, and while these concerns are at the forefront, you ought to keep it sealed. that's exactly what the government asked for. it makes perfect sense. >> chuck, what'd you make of it, given where this case is, given the fact that the attorney general thought it was important enough to actually release the warrant so people would get a basic understanding of it, how should the president's lawyers, others, read into the fact that the doj won't release this affidavit because they say it'll get in the way of an ongoing criminal investigation? >> yeah, first, joe, just a minor point, the doj can't release the affidavit without the permission of the court. right now, this is before a judge, and it is up to him to either seal or unseal. department of justice can ask
for what it wants. but for the lawyers for mr. trump, look, this is not good news. there's lots of things you don't want to be in life. there's a few things you want to be. you want to be healthy, happy, and successful. you don't want to be on the back end of a criminal search warrant. you don't want to be the target of an investigation. those are bad things. and so if there are not just the investigation of the handling of the classified information that was found at mar-a-lago -- and, by the way, that is extremely sensitive stuff -- if there are other related, ongoing investigations, as we saw in the government's motion to keep the search warrant sealed, that's a bad day for mr. trump, and that's going to create work for his lawyers. >> hugo, you've been reporting on this and sort of the reaction inside trump's world, the inner circle, to everything that's happened in the last week and a half or so since the fbi executed that search warrant at mar-a-lago. how concerned are they? we know what the public posture
is, that this is the fbi out to get us, et cetera, the deep state, whatever they're saying, but how concerned are they really? >> i think they wanted doj not to move to block the release of the affidavit. they're casting around to some insight into where doj goes next. i think the fact that they can't get this now, at least immediately, is a real problem for them. i think there's a lot of concern that's permeated through in the last week, as you might expect. certainly, i caught up with some of the lawyers, the trump legal team, and i think they were annoyed at how doj moved on this. then the aides in trump world are also kind of frustrated and, you know, quite worried now about a potential informant in their ranks. there was all the chatter about there might be a human source the fbi has been rely on. now, they're casting around, trying to find out if there is someone in their midst talking to the fbi. the speculation has shifted across the board. it started with michel earlier in the week, and then was it the
professional staff, was it the help at mar-a-lago? by the weekend, it included members of the trump family. everyone has been a suspect in this. >> yeah. >> we're going to get to the political reaction in a little bit with republicans, some at least, becoming a bit concerned about just walking the plank for trump. jonathan lemire, i know you want to take it to chuck as we try and figure out what we do and don't know so far. there's also this issue, especially trump making an issue about his passports. were they taken? why would they be? what's the story? yeah, here in washington, this was what everyone was buzzing about yesterday, trump's post saying his passports were taken. first, why does he have more than one passport? let's be clear, people who travel for government can have diplomatic passports. you can have more than one if trips line up a certain way. it is not that unusual. but the idea his passports were taken raised the question of,
well, is he being perceived as a flight risk? does this mean that charges could be imminent? now, doj later tells us the passports wererosenberg, i was get your take as to what you think this means. was this simply passports were scooped up with other materials that go through the filter team, then they're returned appropriately, or do you think there is a greater meaning behind this? we should note, the former president had planned to travel overseas later this month to check out some of his golf courses in the united kingdom. not clear if that trip can now happen. >> few points. first, you're absolutely right. when i was in government, i had more than one passport. second, it's not necessary, i think in this case, to take mr. trump's passports during a search. perhaps they were scooped up. sometimes you do take them. maybe a drug dealer. i'm talking about a different case here, obviously. maybe a drug dealer is living in the rented apartment of a friend, and you want to show for criminal purposes that his passports were there, his
toothbrush was there, that's where he lives. it might be evidence to establish someone's dominion or control over a particular residence. that's not necessary at mar-a-lago. we know who lives there. it is mr. trump. it could have been scooped up inadvertently. seems the government gave it back. there is one other point, johnen jonathan, and i think you were eluding to this. after somebody is charged, if a judge is going to release them on bond prior to trial, often, typically, usually, you take your passports. why? you don't want them to flee the country before trial. but that's not the case here either. it seems to me that it may have been inadvertent. there are interesting issues bound up in the passport. by the way, that's not the only way to prove travel, as you all probably know from your own travel. your passport doesn't always get stamped when you go through border control. there are other databases available to the fbi within the u.s. government that can show someone's travel.
seems to me the inadvertent, let's see what happens if someone is -- let's see what happens to their passports if somebody is charged. >> the mounting legal woes for the former president are causing a lot of different reactions and concerns. a pennsylvania man was arrested and charged with making threats against the fbi. adam bias is charged with influencing or retaliating against law enforcement officers. he recently posted a variety of threats on the far-right website, gap, following the search of mar-a-lago. he compared fbi to nazi officers and kgb and threatened to kill them. he was arrested on friday. this is just -- this is the part where i really feel like everybody needs to hang on, joe, and just let the story speak for
itself. because all the buzz on the internet and all over the airwaves, it does have an impact. >> you say buzz. >> well, i'm calling it buzz. >> there's an awful lot of hate speech coming from pro-trump media outlets. >> anger, a lot of anger. >> attacking the nation's premier law enforcement agency, simply because donald trump is being investigated. it's been that way now for years, unfortunately. the republican party, who used to defend officers and the fbi decided to trash the fbi once donald trump got into office. despite the fact it was a fbi, in my humble opinion, that helped donald trump get into office. thank you, james comey. but, chuck rosenberg, i heard such reckless rhetoric coming out of the republican party immediately after this legal
search. such recklessness and such hate, such hatred toward law enforcement officers, both in the republican party, on pro-trump tv networks, on pro-trump websites. it seems that it's calmed down a bit over the last couple days. there are at least a few republicans, one former fbi agent who is a member of congress who actually is calling his buddies and asking if they're doing okay. it's nice at least one republican is doing that. you have congressman turner, who is telling fellow republicans to guard their words. that's very important, as well. but, for the most part, a lot of hate speech from republicans, and not enough republican leaders speaking out in defense of the federal bureau of investigations, in defense of law enforcement officers. what's the impact of that for people unhinged out there?
>> yeah, so, joe, first of all, it's pathetic and sickening, but let's just put that aside for a minute. that's small thing aside for a minute. it is also dangerous. you saw what happened in cincinnati. you saw the recent arrest of this man in pennsylvania. even though we know it's just, you know, sort of this sickening and disgusting rhetoric, there are people out there who act on it. and so you couldn't -- you might not like what the fbi has done in certain instances, but the fbi is a group of people. you're putting the people at risk, the agents in tacoma and mobile and albany. you're putting them at risk. they have a really hard job to do without getting sort of targeted by republican politicians. to me, it's more than pathetic and sickening. it is really dangerous. there are people who are clearly unhinged, who take the president's words to heart, who want to act to defend the former
president, who will take up arms and will go out and try to hurt other people. you're talking about our neighbors, talking about people in our communities. you're talking about people who took an oath to serve this country. i can't think of anybody who wouldn't want an fbi agent as their next door neighbor. these are good, honest, decent men and women of integrity. they protect us. we should be grateful for them. instead, now, they're being targeted. joe, it is sickening. >> just another case like with january 6th, as we've learned in the hearings, where these people, many of them members of congress, back law enforcement so long as law enforcement serves their interests. the moment they don't, they attack them, sometimes physically. we talked about the fallout from all that's happened around 2020. more of it in the state of georgia. rudy giuliani is now a target of the criminal investigation into possible 2020 election interference there. that's according to his attorney. the grand jury called by fulton
county district attorney fani willis already has heard witness testimony about debunked conspiracy theories giuliani pushed to georgia lawmakers in 2020. giuliani was subpoenaed last month, but his legal team has delayed his appearance citing health concerns. giuliani is expected to testify tomorrow now after a judge last week ordered him to appear in person. his attorney told "the new york times," giuliani would probably invoke attorney/client privilege if asked questions about his dealings with former president trump. saying, quote, if these people think he is going to talk about conversations between him and president trump, they are delusional. hugo, rudy giuliani was on the phone in 2020 around the election but after and during the election there, helping them find ways, using conspiracy theories to perhaps throw those 11,000 or so votes to donald trump. now, the debt is due for rudy giuliani. he said he couldn't get down there because of his heart
stint, he couldn't fly. the judge said, "okay, then drive." he is expected to be there. >> he is now a target of the investigation, which is quite a significant move if you think about all the legal woes that giuliani is facing, whether it is january 6th, the congressional investigation or the federal investigation, and now in the state investigation, he is a target of the investigation. i think that is significant. because when he gets to the courthouse in atlanta tomorrow, he has a decision to make. is he going to cooperate with the state investigation? is he going to cooperate with fani willis' criminal probe and potentially buy himself credit if it comes to indictment, sentencing, or will he invoke his fifth amendment? it was very much on the table when we spoke to giuliani's lawyers last week. he has an important decision to make, depending how he wants to go down the road with criminal probes. >> mika, lindsey graham is wrapped up in all this. he has been subpoenaed down in the state of georgia. he was also making phone calls around the election there.
just checking in, he said, as the head of the judiciary committee. he is involved in this, too. these are bold-face names in the trump orbit wrapped up in this investigation in fulton county. >> hugo lowell, chuck rosenberg, thank you both for being on. we appreciate it. a lot happening. still ahead on "morning joe," a rough travel summer season takes another big hit. faa staffing shortages yesterday in the new york metro area led to long delays for travelers. it'll likely carry over into today's schedule. also ahead, steve kornacki is standing by at the big board. he's going to break down the primary races in alaska and wyoming that are getting a lot of attention, for good reason. plus, we'll get a live report from ukraine and the latest on a possible attack in northern crimea this morning. as we go to break, a look at the other stories we're following today. president biden is expected to sign the democrats' climate, health care, and tax bill into
law today. the white house says in the weeks ahead, the president will host a cabinet meeting focused on implementing the inflation reduction act into law. he will also travel across the country to highlight how the bill will help americans. and defense secretary lloyd austin has tested positive for covid-19, experiencing mild symptoms. austin issued a statement yesterday, saying he will quarantine for the next five days in accordance with cdc guidelines. the 69-year-old is fully vaccinated and has received two boosters. he plans to continue his normal work schedule. he says his most recent in-person contact with president biden was last month. this is the second time austin has tested positive for the virus. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe."
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beautiful sunrise over the potomac in washington as we come up on the bottom of the hour. it is primary day in the state of wyoming, where incumbent republican congresswoman liz cheney is facing a number of challengers, including trump-endorsed contender harriet hageman. cheney is trailing hageman by 30 points. the wyoming republican party voted to censure cheney for speaking out against former president trump and for chairing the january 6th committee. her top priority is from preventing trump from ever winning the presidency again, describing him as a threat to american democracy. joining us at the big board,
national political correspondent for nbc news and msnbc, steve kornacki. a big day in wyoming and alaska, we'll talk about in a moment. the polling has been a little spotty in wyoming, but suffice it to say, a big lead for hageman over cheney as we go goo voting today. >> the polling certainly hasn't been encouraging for liz cheney. look at the matchup, there is going to be a third candidate on the ballot here. but it is hageman who has gotten the endorsement of donald trump and has been leading in the polling, leading by lopsided margins over liz cheney. you have the dynamics here in wyoming and in the polling. then you have the broader context for this. you mentioned ten republican members of congress, the house i should say, in the wake of january 6th voted to impeach donald trump. cheney was the most prominent and has been the most persist end in her criticisms and attacks on donald trump. take a look here. this is the track record of the ten. what's happened to them politically in 2022, after
casting the impeachment votes in you can see here, a number of them chose just not to run for re-election this year. then you have, starting at tom rice in south carolina, he was crushed in his primary. peter meijer recently lost in michigan. jamie herrera beutler lost the washington state. two survived primaries. voteable, david valadao in california, one of the top two primaries, all the candidates from all the paries on the ballot and top two advance. donald trump didn't make an endorsement, and valadao got through to the second round of voting. dan newhouse from washington state, donald trump endorsed his challenger. again, it was a top two primary. it was a very crowded field. a lot of trump-aligned candidates. newhouse got through. he got through with about 25% of the vote. here's liz cheney.
from the trump standpoint, this is much more what he is looking for when he has candidates -- when he is backing candidates against other republicans. it is a clean one-on-one matchup. there is a third candidate, barely registering. trump is getting the one-on-one matchup with cheney. the polling suggesting cheney is poised to join the company of the other republicans who have been defeated in primaries. >> mika, in this primary season of shape shifting republican candidates who are trying to become as closely assigned with donald trump as they can be, though they have no history of it dating back to a month or so ago, liz cheney's closing ad is who she's always been for the last couple years. >> yeah. >> she's saying, take me or leave me, this is the truth. this is who donald trump is. this is what i think he's done to the country. this is what i think he may still do to the country. she is willing to lose by 20 or more points to make that stand. >> of course she is. we'll be watching this and then see what happens next for her if
she does, indeed, lose the election, which it appears she will. voters in alaska today will use the ranked choice voting system for the first time. i find this fascinating. all candidates will compete on the same ballot, and the top four vote getters, regardless of party affiliation, will move on to the final election in november. one of the most watched races, of course, will be the senate primary. lisa murkowski was one of seven republican senators who voted to impeach former president trump after january 6th. i believe that was his second impeachment trial. she was the only one with the re-election bid this year and has become a top target for trump, who has backed challenger kelly chibaca. both are expected to advance to the final november election along with the democrat, pat chesbro. in a house special election, four candidates are running to
finish doug young's term. the lawmaker died earlier this year. vice presidential candidate and governor of alaska, sarah palin, finished first in the june primary. she has the endorsement of the former president. at the same time, as the special election voters will choose candidates for the house primary, all candidates in these special elections are also on that ballot. steve, play out alaska for us and how it looks for sarah palin, but also for the senate candidates. >> yeah. this one, this house special election in alaska tonight, i think, is where the real suspense is. that suspense will sort of spill over into the early morning hours, and i think potentially the next couple weeks. remember, as you say, this is going to be decided ultimately by ranked choice voting. what you're seeing here are the results from the preliminary. again, what they do in this ranked choice system in alaska, they all, democrat, republican, they run on the same ballot. then the top four advance. initially, in this house special
election, you had the top four candidates. there was a fourth candidate who you don't see on the screen, al gross, who also advanced. he was sort of aligned with democrats. gross dropped out of the race, got his name off the ballot. there are going to be three names on the runoff ballot for the special election today in alaska. voters, what they're doing, is ranking them, my first choice, second choice, third choice. here is the expectation for how this is going to play out with only three candidates on the ballot. one democrat, only 10% in the preliminary, but she'll pretty much monopolize the democratic vote. she may finish first in the count, and that'll create suspense. palin or nick begich. they're both republicans. which of these finishes second? that's a crucial question. in the ranked choice system, they'll do one, two, three. whoever finishes third will be
eliminated on the spot. then their supporters' second choice will get reallocated. we've seen some polling in this race that is suggested, again, peltola, by monopolizing the democratic vote, will finish first. palin and begich are in a neck-and-neck race for second place. if begich gets second place over palin, palin loses the special election and her supporters get reallocated. if you assume her supporters would overwhelmingly back begich, because they're not going to back a democrat, begich may win on then rah ked choice round. the interesting scenario here is if palin gets second instead of begich. if you look at the polling, palin's negative numbers in alaska are very, very high. would there be a slice of begich voters who would not make palin their second choice, and could
palin/ palin/petola matchup, could petola win the matchup? we won't know until probably september 1st when they do the ranked choice process on this. what we will find out, probably not tonight but in the next couple days, is whether it is palin or begich who finishes in the second place spot. this is a special election. all candidates are doing it again in a primary and november runoff again, starting today. the senate race, as well. honestly, not a ton of suspense tonight. this is about the prelude to murkowski and tsibaka in november. ahead in the fourth hour, we'll get a live report from wyoming and alaska. >> let me ask steve quickly about the alaska ranked voting. it is hard, i know, for a lot of people to remember sarah palin before she got on john mccain's ticket. extremely popular governor in alaska.
approval ratings in the 70s. i read at one point at 80% or so. but we haven't seen that sarah palin since 2008. yet, in this campaign, we saw a clip yesterday of her seemingly extending an olive branch to democrats saying, you know what, there are good candidates on both sides. that's a great thing for the people of alaska. i'm curious, we always talk about how, you know, we have to get rid of gerrymandering to make these races a bit more sane and rational. i'm wondering, does ranked voting do that itself? is that what we were seeing yesterday when we saw the clip of sarah palin? >> a little. what we've seen is palin and begich both laid off petola but not each other. it has been pretty intense between palin and begich.
begich campaign calling palin a quitter, leaving in the middle of the term as governor. your getting typical dynamics between palin and begich. they both understand that one of them has to finish second, likely, and one will finish third and be done. that could be the ball game here in terms of winning this congressional seat. you're seeing a typical campaign between the two of them, but they've kind of both left petola alone. >> steve kornacki, thank you so much. i think we'll be seeing you again tomorrow. programming note, steve will be at the big board tonight as the returns come in. he'll be on with alex wagner tonight as she launches her new show, "alex wagner tonight," tuesdays through fridays, at 9:00 eastern time, right here on msnbc. and as part of her premiere, alex will also be live at midnight eastern as polls close in alaska. that's tonight on msnbc starting at 9:00 p.m. eastern. congratulations, alex.
steve, sorry, dude, we'll see you tomorrow. still ahead this morning, there were new explosions in the russian-controlled crimea area this morning. nbc's josh lederman joins us from kyiv with the latest on ukraine's fight. also ahead, u.s. secretary of education, miguel cardona, will join us with a look at the administration's strategy for the upcoming school year, including plans to address the nationwide teacher shortage. and how to keep students safe from covid and monkeypox. "morning joe" will be right back. pool floaties are like whooping cough. amusement parks are like whooping cough. even ice cream is like whooping cough, it's not just for kids.
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deputy prime minister wrote, quote, evacuate. a harsh winter is coming. we need to help save you from the cold and the enemy, end quote. it comes as the ukrainians hope to take back the city which fell to the russians in march. evacuations would make it easier for ukraiian forces to operate there without inflicting civilian casualties. officials also say while ukrainian forces haven't advanced in weeks, the artillery campaign seems to have slowed the flow of russian arms, equipment, and troops into the area, mika. meanwhile, new explosions rocked the russian-controlled crimea region this morning. russian officials say the blasts took place at an ammunition storage facility, injuring two people and disrupting train services. it is still unclear who is behind the attack. in a statement, the russian defense ministry said, quote, the fire was the result of a
sabotage. this is the second attack in a week to rock the crimea area, which moscow annexed in 2014. ukraine hasn't claimed responsibility for the strikes, but if kyiv is behind the attack, it shows ukrainian forces' new capability to strike deeper into russian territory. joining us now, live from kyiv, nbc news correspondent josh lederman. josh, what more can you tell us? >> reporter: mika, we all remember former lieutenant colonel alex vindman, the face of president trump's first impeachment trial, who blew the whistle about that now infamous call where president trump tried to strongarm president zelenskyy into opening investigations into hunter biden. we can can now report that alex vindman is back in kyiv, the city where he was born. he slipped into the country over the border from poland and is now here in ukraine, meeting
with top u.s. officials from the embassy, from the state department and the military, as well as top ukrainian officials. i spoke with him exclusively this morning here in kyiv, where he was fairly critical of the biden administration's handling of this war so far. faulting the biden white house for being too slow, saying it is absolutely time for the u.s. to designate russia as a state sponsor of terrorism, as well as in the longer term, to provide fighter aircraft, more long-range artillery to the ukrainians. i asked him what his advice would be to president biden about how to improve the u.s. response to this war. take a listen. >> take the courageous decisions now. don't wait four, five months to offer high mars. don't wait until next month, until the next tragedy, to offer long-range, you know, fires or aircraft. do that now because we're going to get to it. >> reporter: of course, lieutenant colonel vindman also
had a front row seat in the white house to the way that president trump and other top officials handled classified information. i asked him about his concerns about trump possessing some of those top u.s. national security secrets at mar-a-lago. this is what he said. >> it's hard to fathom the kinds of risks that were in there. we're talking about where our nuclear stockpile might be, how effective it is, and this guy keeps it with him because he thinks it's cool. oh, look, i got a box full of nuclear secrets there that i can peer into because it's fun. that's his callousness with regards to national security. >> reporter: do you worry he could share the secrets with other countries? >> i think that -- i think that is a very legitimate concern. >> reporter: he also told me that there is a direct thread between president trump's first impeachment and the war that russia is now currently waging in ukraine. he said ukraine would be in a
far better position to defend itself militarily if the former president had not undermined ukraine's national security, mika. >> wow. nbc'sderman with the interview. thank you for being on this morning. still ahead, we're following the latest developments out of china, as beijing launches new military drills following a trip to taiwan by u.s. lawmakers. also ahead, we're breaking down all the legal implications surrounding the affidavit that cleared the way for the fbi's search of mar-a-lago. we'll be right back. so we need something super distinctive... dad's work, meet daughter's playtime. thankfully, meta portal auto pans and zooms to keep you in frame. and the meeting on track. meta portal. the smart video calling device that makes work from home work for you.
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huey lewis in the morning. new york city at 6:52 a.m. >> okay. >> willie, so after the red sox traded their catcher, who was the heart of the team, their catcher and right fielder for two proof of purchase sales from any kellogg branded product, i stopped following them as closely. i heard, thanks for not making fun of me for being a yankees fan. i looked closer and saw that they were on the skid. we saw some of that this weekend. jack and i went to boston and watched some games. i guess the question is, i mean, in baseball, as you know, and as i told jack from a young age, everything balances out. if a .295 hitter is hit
hitting .410, he'll end up at .285 probably. everything balances out in the end. with new york, what's happening? you don't have a ton of injuries like the yankees usually do. what's going on? >> some injuries, stanton is out, severino, carpenter. they do have injuries, but that's not the root of it. they haven't scored runs. shutout in four of the last nine, incluing last night against the rays. pitcher has been a little better. cole was good, but he didn't get help from his defense or the bullpen, which has been the problem. the pitching staff hasn't been great. they're 8-16 since the all-star break. these are the yankees who, at the beginning of the year, people were saying, forget about the '27 yankees. we say on the show, my god, is it a long reason. from april to late october, so much is going the happen. you can't stay that hot. you can't keep everybody
healthy. so they're in a slump, a long one, still ten games up in the division, but they've faded from the conversation. they're nine games behind the dodgers for the best record in baseball. behind the mets and the astros. they're certainly struggling. but because it's a long season, let's hope it's a valley and another peak is in front of us. >> i mean this, i've had friends that had teams that have gone on 20-game winning streaks in august and september, and they've been so excited. i'm like, dude, the wrong time to get hot. i mean, this is -- if you want your team to go through it, the this is when you want your team to go through it. it is a perfect time, in fact. start getting things realigned in september and going into the playoffs. aaron hicks obviously went to the durant school of center fielders. come on, it's a can of corn. catch it, right? we're looking, obviously, at the
american league east because that's what we do. there's an american league east bias on this show. the orioles are an incredible story, but we don't have time to get to that. i want to talk about the new york mets. of course, the atlanta braves, who are like the posse and butch cassidy "the sundance kid," they keep coming. braves, 7 out of 10 games. these mets have been more injury and accident prone than chris sale on a bike. yet, they just keep winning. like, the mets, boy, this team is built to win, aren't they? >> they are. lemire, they get the pitching back. already having a good season, then degrom comes back. the braves won seven in a row, to joe's point. they keep coming at ya. maybe the end of the season like they were last year. the mets, man, they might be there, too. they've got -- the dodgers are in the way, but they have the stuff to go all the way. >> defending champion braves,
red shot. the dodgers are 20-4 over the last few weeks. >> geez. >> already have 80 wins. but let's talk mets for a second. some fans wish they'd done a little more at the deadline, but they've got a strong lineup. they have edwin diaz, who has been the best closer in baseball so far this year, and an electric introduction music when he comes in. citi field goes crazy. it's all about the top two pitchers. there's no team in baseball, including the yankees, astros, dodgers, none can do a one-two of scherzer and degrom. degrom only made three starts this year so far, but they've been spectacular. hasn't missed a beat. >> love that guy. >> if he can stay healthy in october, no sure thing because he is about as durable as chris sale, but if he is healthy -- >> on a unicycle. >> if that is that healthy and scherzer, who has a terrific postseason track record, they can beat anybody.
they are an older team. mets window is now. they are positioned to do it. >> the dodgers are a perfect example of getting hot at the right time and the wrong time. how many times the past several years have we see the dodgers go on a torrid clip, then lose the world series. they won it last year. i'm sure they're a great team. 80-34 looks great. you always think of the seattle team that won 116, 118 games. couldn't even make it to the series. it is all about timing, isn't it? >> by the way, with the pitcher walker buehler surgery, could really shake things up for them. >> nice, mika. >> that was good. >> well done. coming up -- >> that is great. she knows this game. >> long-time ally of donald trump suggests it may be time for someone else to lead the republican party. in washington, the white
house and democratic leadership want to remind people they're passing historic, landmark legislation. we'll have more about their big plans. plus -- >> eventually, he said orderly transition. i said, good, john. now, i'm going to give you the best free legal advice you're ever getting in your life. get a great f-ing criminal defense lawyer. you're going to need it. then i hung up on him. >> former trump attorney eric herschmann became a familiar face in the first round of the january 6th committee hearings. now, his testimony is piquing the interest of a federal grand jury. we'll explain that next on "morning joe." age is just a number.
donald trump has been a friend of mine for 25 years, and i'm always very open about this on my show. but, you know, we'll see whether that's what the country wants. maybe it's time to turn the page, if we can get someone who has all trump's policies, who is not trump. right? >> donald trump ally laura ingraham on whether it's time for republicans to move on, as the heat turns up on donald trump and those around him. joe, what do you make of those comments? >> i mean, from my point of view, that would be best for america. but from somebody's point of
view who is interested in the republican party defeating democrats, it would be in the republican party's best interest also if that's what they did. he has too many negatives. they say it time and again, that guy is not going to ever win back voters he lost in the suburbs of atlanta or the philly suburbs or the detroit suburbs or any of these suburbs. he's toxic for 55% of americans, and he's just never going to get those people back. so it does make a lot of sense. i will say, willie, also, it makes sense to warn other republicans, some whom have flocked to donald trump over the past week because they wanted to show how loyal they were to him. i mean, they're having trouble even keeping sort of the defense consistent because he keeps changing his story every three or four hours. one story contradicts another story. you know, we're just at the beginning of this. the news is going to continue to
get worse. this is like the first round of mike tyson versus allen, the boxing club champion of princeton from 1967. it is not going to get better over the next 14 rounds. you know, it doesn't make sense for republicans to embrace this guy, then be shocked by one revelation after another revelation after another revelation. they're going to keep coming. >> clearly, what laura ingraham said on the podcast is reflective. we know speaking to people privately, but we've heard publicly, republicans in the senate, for example. obviously, there is the group of house republicans that will defend publicly, not privately, donald trump right to the end, but they just in the senate and other republicans, they just want him to go away. they're grateful for what he did. he swept many of them into power. my goodness, they don't want to spend this election cycle and the next presidential election cycle talking about what happened in 2020, as this now --
these investigations of his time in office enter the criminal realm now. it gets more serious. >> right. >> it gets worse for everyone around him. they feel, again, like they have a vulnerable president in joe biden. they feel they can win big in the fall. but if donald trump is hanging over everything, and he will be, it's too late now, he will be, they feel like he gets in the way of their chances. >> yeah. >> any sane, any rational -- >> practical person. >> -- that was trying to figure out, do we want to win this fall big, or do we want to risk losing the senate again, would look at the situation and say donald trump lost us the house, lost us the senate. went out of his way to lose us the senate. lost the white house. the first since hoover to do all of that in his first term. then you look at the story we reported last hour. the republican senate candidates, in a year that they should just be destroying democrats, should be wiping democrats out, joe biden with
record low approval ratings over the past several months. democratic party seemingly in disarray, fighting each other over the past several months. and this being an off-year election. republicans should have been raising a ton of money the past several months, and they haven't been doing that, mika, because the candidates that are winning, dr. oz, butters, the whack jobs out in arizona, herschelwalker, i mean, they're not even second tier candidates. they're not third tier candidates. as willie said, they're looking back to 2020. the best way to lose is talking about what happened to a politician two years from now instead of telling your voter what you want to happen for them and their family over the next two years. that's just how lost the
republican party is right now. >> the legal swirl around this former president is getting deeper and deeper and far more serious, as well. that's got to seem too hot for some. this hour, we are following new developments on the federal investigation into classified documents seized from the mar-a-lago. meanwhile, in georgia, the walls appear to be closing in on donald trump lawyer rudy giuliani and senator lindsey graham. giuliani told reporters he's a target in the election investigation, while graham has lost another bid to evade testimony. they want to hear from him. and former trump white house lawyer eric herschmann, a witness in the congressional investigation of january 6th, has now been subpoenaed in the justice department investigation. all told, it's a tough time to be connected to donald trump. >> say it to me. i like this eric herschmann guy.
say it back to me. >> peaceful transition. >> i like my restaurant. say it back to me. >> peaceful transition. then he said it. >> willie, best testimony. i mean, some of the best testimony we heard, "get yourself a blanking lawyer." some great stuff. again, i do hope, because there are going to be a lot of movies about this one day, i do hope that eric herschmann gets to play herschmann in the movies. >> he deserves it. say it to me, peaceful transition of power, pulling the tie, making him say it again, say it slow. >> yeah. >> it would be a shame if something happened to your oil spill. >> yeah. >> jonathan lemire, he'll have a lawyer by him today. to underline this, the fact -- the news here is that there is a grand jury right now looking into criminality around january 6th. so you see that eric herschmann
has been subpoenaed to testify before a grand jury. they don't put grand juries together because they want to hear magical tales of unicorns and, i don't know, beautiful things that kids like. i mean, they put them together -- my thought obviously wandered out into left center field where duran hit the pop fly. >> aaron hicks is looking for it, too. >> hicks and duran running around each other in circles, trying to find -- >> where you're going with this, yeah. >> -- it in the lights. yeah, yeah. i guess what i'm saying is, if you are donald trump and you find out your former lawyer that defended you in the impeachment trial, but then actually turned on you to tell the truth in the january 6th committee, if he is being called in front of a grand jury, that means the justice department is actually investigating the criminality, most likely, of the former president on january 6th. >> there's so many legal fronts here for trump and his allies to
be concerned about. there's this grand jury. we know that members of the vice president's office, other senior white house aides, have also been called in front of the grand jury, based here in washington. now this attorney, eric herschmann. giuliani, of course, he can't go by plane, but train, automobiles, he has to find his way to atlanta some way to testify tomorrow, per a judge there. he's been told he is a target. and, of course, there is the ongoing fallout from what is happening in mar-a-lago, which, unrelated, it appears, to january 6th. that is, yet, another legal anvil poised over the head of donald trump. certainly, those in hisorbit i've been talking to the last couple days, a real increase in worry. the former president has been able to skate, as we have documented many times, from trouble before. there's a sense, though, that the walls are closing in a little bit. as much as they are blustering,
a sense of panic and deep concern has settled in at mar-a-lago and bedminster, where the former president is now. >> i think his social -- whatever he uses to get people to tweet about him, the comments he's made appear to be a bit more hysterical and show a growing fear. i mean, it is very clear, it is very clear, no matter what he is saying or, you know, what bluster donald trump has about all of this, he has legal problems up and down, all day long, in three or four different venues. >> mika, he finds himself legally in the same position he found himself after january 6th. he was desperate to do anything to stay inside the white house. he was, again, willing to try to inspire a fascist riot and insurrection. >> terrible. >> that failed.
after that, he found himself in a position where he had no cards left to play. i'm not saying he is quite there yet legally, but you -- >> we don't know. >> we don't know what is going to happen. >> but he has to deal with all this all day, every day. >> usually gets away with everything. >> yeah. >> we can only assume. i mean, he's got people who regularly are well respected in polite society on the right who regularly talk about a russian hoax, even after the senate intel committee talked about the threat, the threat to the united states of america that his 2016 campaign's contacts with russia caused. think about that. >> yeah. >> this is that guy that actually has people talking about the russian hoax, even after marco rubio and the senate intel committee issued a report. in the report, they said that donald trump's 2016 campaign
created a, quote, grave counterintelligence threat. a republican-run senate intel committee said his campaign created a grave counterintelligence threat. yet, he got away with it. not only did he get away with it, heblustered enough and said russian hoax enough that stupid people started repeating "russian hoax." unfortunately, cynical people that write for right-wing publications talked about russian hoax. a countcounterintelligence thre doesn't seem like a hoax. we've seen it, this guy gets away with it. he'll probably get away with it again. that said, i wouldn't want to be where he and his lawyers are right now. it seems they're fighting a three, four, five, six-front
battle. >> it's not good. >> when you have a secretary of state, a republican who supported donald trump in the state of georgia, and he's got recordings of donald trump trying to get him to rig the election, asking him to find one more vote than he lost by, when you have lindsey graham calling and the secretary of state of georgia, a republican who voted for donald trump and was a big trumper, saying lindsey graham was calling, telling him, it seemed to him, to throw out legally cast votes, this is bad. rudy giuliani, big trouble. they're all, again, in big trouble. not because of libs but, again, we have republicans in the state of georgia that recorded these conversations. republicans in the state of georgia who called out, who called out donald trump. and these same republicans in the state of georgia overwhelmingly won their primary races in the republican primary in the state of georgia.
this ain't a democratic conspiracy. these are republicans calling him out. >> chris wray, put in there by trump. >> put in by trump, and trump vouched for his credibility. >> that was his guy, his choice. >> chris wray was a great guy, man of honor. >> donald trump really focused on -- >> only the best people. >> -- these people. he wanted his people. >> only the best people. >> heading up the departments. fbi director chris wray was donald trump's choice. now, that same person is investigating donald trump. the justice department has asked a judge to keep the affidavit pertaining to that search warrant of mar-a-lago sealed, citing a need to protect the investigation and witnesses. the affidavit contains the government's reasoning for conducting the search. in the interesting. in a court filing, prosecutors argued, quote, if disclosed, the
affidavit would serve as a road map to the government's ongoing investigation, providing specific details about its direction and likely course. in addition, information about witnesses is particularly sensitive, given the high-profile nature of this matter, and would impact their willingness to cooperate. the government also states, releasing the affidavit could chill future cooperation in, quote, other high-profile investigations. joining us now, nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent, ken dilanian. also with us, pulitzer prize-winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson. ken, what do you make of the justice department response? what stands out to you? because many on both sides, and journalists as well, would love more transparency, to understand what exactly happened in this peaceful search of mar-a-lago.
>> we sure would, mika. this was an incredibly revelatory filing that taught us a lot about what is happening here. because, as you just mentioned, this filing confirmed that this is a grand jury investigation. we sort of knew that because we reported there was a grand jury subpoena. now, it is clear. the foil ingfiling confirmed th multiple witnesses cooperating, talking with the fbi, and it confirms there is an ongoing criminal investigation. i have been saying there is three possibilities. the most benign is the government wanted its classified documents back. now it has documents, that'd be the end of it. if that were true, they wouldn't be fighting so hard to keep this affidavit sealed. they really made it clear yesterday that that's not the case. we can rule that one out. the next two possibilities, there is an ongoing criminal investigation into the statutes about mishandling classified information and potential criminal charges against people
around donald trump, against donald trump. then i've been saying the third possibility is something even more ominous, which is, particularly when you are looking at the espionage act, what was trump doing with the classified information? why did he have it? was there anything nefarious about his plans or his intentions or any actions he took to somehow use it? >> ken, there's been some confusion, i think, because there is, understandably, so much going on here, about whether donald trump was within his rights to take any of that material, whether classified or not, with him. whether, you know, the presidential records act applies here, the espionage act. there's so much at play here. was he okay in any way to take some of this stuff with him from the white house to mar-a-lago? was he within his rights as a former president to do that? >> legal experts are pretty unanimous, willie. the answer is no. i'm glad you raise this. because it is confusing.
we go down the rabbit hole of whether he can declassify stuff, and that is an interesting debate. it really isn't settled in the law. the president has the absolute right to declassify, but many experts think it has to be me moralized in some way. clearly, nobody believes there was a standing order to declassify everything coming out of the white house, as one trump acolyte said the other day. leaving that aside, the three statutes mentioned in the warrant, none require the records and information in question be classified. particularly the two, about stealing government property and concealing or obstructing -- or, rat rather, concealing or damaging records in the investigation, that has nothing to do with what the information is. any record applies. the espionage act doesn't -- most cases involve classified
information, but it doesn't require it. you're right, willie, these were the u.s. government's records, according to the fbi and the justice department. the practice of every other president has been you turn them over to the archives. if you want to write your memoirs, go and review them. if they are classified, go to at a facility where you can review them. >> as the scripture says, for now, gene robinson, we're seeing through a glass darkly. we don't know what is going on, but if you read "the washington post," "the new york times," "the wall street journal," you can certainly take a couple of really good educated guesses. first of all, we do know, apparently from this response on the affidavit, there is an ongoing criminal investigation into donald trump's mishandling of criminal documents. if you read the article talking about eric herschmann being called, being subpoenaed to testify before a grand jury, it
certainly looks like there is an ongoing criminal investigation into the events surrounding january 6th. obviously, if eric herschmann is going in as donald trump's lawyer, it involves donald trump. you have an ongoing grand jury investigation in the state of georgia. it's republican tapes and republican comments that had been made, that actually give that georgia investigation its biggest strength. lindsey graham desperately trying to get out of testifying because the secretary of state thinks he called him up and tried to get him to throw out legally cast ballots. then you have news that rudy giuliani also, a guy who was working feverishly to rig that election and others, also told he is under criminal investigation, as well. yes, for now, we are seeing through a glass darkly, but i think we can see the outlines of real trouble coming for all the
president's men. >> absolutely. don't forget that donald trump's business practices are also under investigation in new york. he's got a multi-front battle he's got to fight. i think one thing -- i've been thinking about the search participant and the serving of the search warrant in the documents case by the fbi going into mar-a-lago. i think we will look back and see that as an even bigger moment than it looks now. because, before, there was kind of this sense that, well, maybe a former president was untouchable. maybe there was, in the end, nothing you could do to a former president. when those agents took the search warrant, went in and took those documents that rightly belong, by the way, to you, me, and the american people, and do not belong to donald trump. they were effectively stolen property. but when they crossed that
threshold, i think we crossed a threshold in thinking that, well, maybe a former president is not untouchable. so the unthinkable becomes thinkable now. we've got a couple grand juries working. all of a sudden, it is not inconceivable, to i think anybody, that, eventually, we could see charges coming out. i think that's why donald trump, it seems to be so, is worried and frantic. i think he gets that. i think he gets that, at least a layer of his untouchability has been stripped away. he is more vulnerable than he's ever been. >> and the streams of the legal stories flowing out of the 2020 election and the president leaving the white house continue. there's another one here with newly obtained records reportedly showing the trump legal team hired computer experts to breach voting
machines following the 2020 election. according to emails and documents obtained by "the washington post," trump's attorneys paid an atlanta-based forensic firm to copy the hard drives of election servers from georgia, nevada, and michigan. this was revealed after the firm was subpoenaed in a lawsuit involving georgia's election security. some of the alleged findings was touted by trump as, quote, absolute proof the voting machines were rigged. in a taped interview with the january 6th select committee, william barr called that report amateurish, and said trump would have to be, quote, detached from reality to believe it. efforts to breach voting machines continued after the january 6th attack on the capitol. "the post" reporting on the morning of january 7th, trump's attorneys sent a team to georgia to copy server data. one of the reporters who broke this story, "the washington post"'s jon swaine.
there was an eye-popper when you dropped this yesterday. what does it mean to copy the data on an election machine? to take that server out of it. as a trump election lawyer, sidney powell and the other crack pots running this operation were allegedly behind it. is that legal to do? how do you do that? >> these machines, as people would expect, are usually tightly guarded. elections officials in counties and people with credentials are allowed to handle them, but there is tightly controlled chains of custody. these are machines that handle votes and ballots that are sensitive and shouldn't be interfered with. what we see are these teams of forensic investigators going into georgia, michigan, nevada, and opening the guts of these computers and taking images and copying files of servers. the problem arises when some of these files are leaked online. we've seen that in michigan. we've seen that in colorado.
they're downloadable by people who know what to do with them. they're visible to people who could maybe find vulnerabilities that weren't public. what the plaintiffs in the lawsuit that you mentioned, that actually uncovered these records say is some of these people may be jeopardizing election security in the name of defending it. >> jon, how do these people get access to election machines? in other words, you say that, you know, they were able to get in, but they weren't operating in any official capacity. they were just donald trump's lawyers. how did they get their hands on election equipment? >> we see a real mixture of how they got to these machines. in georgia, in the case we reported on, what seems to have happened is local officials and local republicans loyal to donald trump who were convinced, like he was, that votes had been stolen or flipped, and that there was fraud going on, simply thought that this was such a
serious problem, that they'd get people in just by opening the door to their office. my colleagues spoke with a local official in coffee county, georgia, who said, i wanted these people to put the election right. she supported donald trump. she believed what trump said. she ahllowed a trump-connected businessman and these forensic investigators into her office and let them look at the equipment. in other cases, we do see different processes. in michigan, for example, there was a court order by a judge who was a trump donor, allowed a team, a similar team of forensic investigators and lawyer, to go into county offices there, sort of before state officials even knew what was going on. what we see is sidney powell, people around her, finding all these different routes in, whether it's through republican judges, whether it's through republican officials who agree
with them about election fraud, and, you know, i think it's important to say, this is the sort of the trump attempt to overturn the election. we know of mike pence in congress. but this stuff was done quietly and discreetly. the emails we obtained show it was compartmentalized. some lawyers involved in some states weren't shown what was going on in other states. they didn't want to publicize this. they tried to do it quickly and stealthily, to get into the machines and however prove votes were flipped and the machines were part of a foreign conspiracy to flip the election. >> your reporting shows this is a far more complicated effort than we believed in the initial weeks after the election. i want to ask you, on this, is there any legal consequence perhaps for this effort here that could be forthcoming? then, secondly, what safeguards could be put in place to prevent something like this from
happening again? or is it going to remain vulnerable if a trump-friendly precinct captain, whatever it might be, allows something like this to happen in 2024? >> we're seeing in some states there are already legal consequences. the attorney general of michigan has appointed a special prosecutor to investigate some of these people according to the records we reported on for breaches of other counties in michigan that were not protected by court order, that were secret until recently. in colorado, a local elections official this who is accused of a breach of the system in mesa county, she has been indicted on multiple felony counts. you know, there are very serious consequences for people involved in these cases, where the right authorities were not followed. in terms of securing the systems in the future, you know, i think the plaintiffs in this lawsuit
really, what they're trying to do is to bring attention to these vulnerabilities. they arise when unauthorized people get access to the systems. what we saw yesterday in georgia was the secretary of state's office coming out, having not found this information themselves when they reviewed the situation earlier this year, and saying, rogue elections officials will not be tolerated in georgia. i think, you know, the more that state and county officials who are concerned about election integrity are aware of this threat, the threat of people slipping into offices and counties and accessing their machines, the more kind of regulations and the stricter controls on these machines they can hopefully bring in to secure them. >> "the washington post"'s jon swaine, thank you so much for your reporting this morning. nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent, ken dilanian, thank you, as well. i'm sure we'll be hearing from
now both again soon. 300,000 teachers have left the profession in the last two years, with more than half of those still on the job saying they are considering quitting early, as students prepare to return to school. secretary of education miguel cardona joins us on what the administration is doing to make sure our kids don't walk into an empty classroom. later, an nbc news exclusive. the major step one sports league is taking to encourage people to get out and vote in november. plus, as china continues its bluster following speaker pelosi's trip to taiwan, two experts on the region explain why they think china has peaked as a global power, and why that makes the country even more dangerous. as we go to break, an update on what travelers heading to airports around new york can expect today. the faa announced yesterday it
was reducing flights around the new york metro area due to an unexpected staffing shortage. the administration warned of possiblerriing and departing flights at jfk, laguardia, and liberty airport. faa canceled the early warning after finding additional staffing, but it is still urging travellers to check their airline flight status ahead of any trips this week. >> mika, we were worried about this. we've been worried about this. we talked to secretary buttigieg about this. you hear about the pilot shortages. you hear about the flight attendant shortages. you see it. but i've been concerned, and i know you've been concerned, as well, about the shortages when you're talk about air traffic control. it makes sense that it is there, too. when everybody is being rerouted, i think that's the big
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we possibly can to make sure that veteran gets that loan. 36 past the hour. developing this morning, china has announced more military drills around taiwan after the island's president met with members of a new u.s. congressional delegation yesterday. it's the latest sign of support among american lawmakers for the self-governing island that beijing claims as its own. the visit comes less than two weeks after house speaker nancy pelosi's trip to taiwan, which also prompted days of
threatening military exercises by china. meanwhile, our next guests warn the growing rivalry between the u.s. and china will reach a moment of maximum danger during this decade. joining us now, the authors of the new book, "danger zone, the coming conflict with china," the special assistant to the secretary of defense from 2015 to 2016. michael beckley, associate processor of political science at tufts university. let's talk about this super power marathon and the geopolitical interests that drive it. >> what we've seen over the past few years is that the u.s. and china increasingly appear to be on a collision course. that's largely because of the growth of china has put them in a position to challenge the united states, perhaps not globally yet, but certainly in the asia pacific.
china has become much more assertive in pressing its interests in a variety of areas, from competition over high technology to the balance of power in the taiwan strait. as we've seen in recent months, this has produced a higher baseline of tensions in the relationship, and we're likely moving into a period where we will see multiple crises, diplomatic and perhaps military, between the countries. >> michael, one of the crises was nancy ple pelosi's exit, and now this week, more u.s. lawmakers. it gave china the opportunity to make a show of their protest. what did you make of the exercises they ran around her visit and continue to run now, and whether this really is an escalation or just a moment in time? >> i think the main thing to note about the exercises is they surrounded taiwan on all sides, in particular, on the east coast, which is where, if taiwan -- if china were to blockade taiwan in a military assault, that's where the united
states would try to resupply taiwan. we'd be taking convoys through there. the fact that china is showing off that it can effectively seal taiwan off from outside support, to prevent the cooped of resupply of ukrainian forces that's going on in europe right now, is a big show of force and of intent. >> i guess the main question people watching right now, as they watch all this, want to know, have an answer to, is what is the escalation? what is the next step here? what puts this into a real conflict rather than shows of force and military exercises? what would trigger china. >> i don't think we should be looking for a specific trigger. i think this is going to be done on china and specifically i gin jinping's timeline. he will solidify his authority as dictator for life, then he can start turning to international issues. he said the taiwan issue can't be passed down from generation to generation, implying he
intends to bring taiwan back into the fold under his watch. if that's the case, then he may start flexing some of the military muscle that china spent $3 trillion building up over the last couple decades. >> hal, what is, i guess, the environment that could create this american conflict becoming dangerous, and how to create an environment that avoids that? >> the scenario we worry about is one where china has a near-term window of opportunity. because the military balance in the western pacific has shifted in its favor, for reasons that mike specified. but it is looking at a longer-term window of strategic vulnerability, as the economic growth slows and as it confronts more and more resistance from the democratic world. that's the sort of scenario that, in the past, has pushed revisionist countries, so countries that want to reorder the way the world works, to use force and become more aggressive. so the reason we worry a lot about this decade is that is precisely the scenario china is
going to be looking at, particularly in the second half of the 2020s. >> the new book is "danger zone: the coming conflict with china." co-authors hal brands and michael beckley, thank you, both, very much for coming on the show this morning. congratulations on the book. coming up, from learning loss from the pandemic to teacher shortages, and now new covid rules, it has never been a more unsettling time for students and especially their parents. education secretary miguel cardona. >> jonathan: -- joins us as millions of kids prepare to go back to school. will they have teachers, good teachers? when "morning joe" returns. moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection.
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45 past the hour, everybody. families across the country are gearing up to go back to school. some about to start. while the days of mask mandates and remote learning may mostly be behind us, it's still not quite business as usual. as many school districts don't have enough teachers. nbc news' kerry sanders has the latest. >> reporter: it's back to school for students, but not for some teachers who are leaving the profession in record numbers. schools nationwide are struggling to find qualified teachers, a problem exacerbated by the pandemic. >> you're talking about, you know, dealing with more hassles, more frustration, more depression, more anxiety, for the same amount of pay. >> reporter: an estimated 300,000 public schoolteachers and staff left the field between february 2020 and may 2022. a recent survey of teachers found almost 80% say they're dissatisfied with their working
conditions. almost half saying they're very dissatisfied. one study found 55% of educators are seriously considering ending their careers earlier than expected. parents are concerned. >> i personally know several teachers who have resigned, who just couldn't take it anymore, not feeling that they were valued. >> i want you to pay close attention. >> reporter: in some school districts, fewer teachers means bigger class sizes, adding stress to those still on the job. >> that means kids aren't getting the education they deserve and need. >> reporter: the education secretary telling c-span that salaries and respect for teachers have been too low for too long. >> you could have a masters degree, and you have to drive uber on the weekends to make end's meet. that's unacceptable. >> reporter: florida has some of the worst shortages nationwide, with more than 8,000 teaching positions untilled. the state is recruiting military veterans to teach, even if they're not certified. >> we're going to make sure that
if we hire military personnel under these new provisions, that they are able to deliver instruction, that we prepare them well. >> reporter: critics urge a different strategy, lure teachers back with better pay and better working conditions. >> wow. nbc's kerry sanders with that report. joining us now, the u.s. secretary of education, miguel cardona. thank you very much, mr. secretary, for joining us this morning. where do we begin? i think it's a teacher shortage that we're look at. what is the administration doing to stem the tide of teachers wanting to leave the profession? >> yeah, you know, this time of year, when we're welcoming back millions of students and educators and parents are excited, you know, this is going to be the year full of promise and possibilities, we are dealing with a shortage issue. as your clip showed, it's really a respect issue, too. we need to make sure were respecting the profession.
that means competitive salaries, better working conditions, and teacher voice as we reimagine school. you know, teachers make 20% less than other -- than college graduates in other fields. it is unacceptable. in montana, a starting salary is $32,000. what are you going to do with that? we really need to lift the profession by making sure we're honoring the teacher, paying a competitive salary. teachers have proven they can bend over backwards for students. they've done it the last couple years. we need to lift up the profession as a country. students deserve that. they've gone through enough. we need to make sure we're putting students first, and that means supporting educators. >> how does that happen? >> yeah, so, you know, i made a call to district leaders and state leaders to use the rescue plan dollars. $130 billion across the country to help reopen our schools. use those dollars to provide incentives, to attract teachers,
to retain teachers, to bring retired teachers out of retirement without losing benefits. so those are some short-term solutions, but that's not going to cut it. we need long-term solutions. to that, i'm saying, use the dollars and invest and grow your own programs. we have that want to become teachers. we have students that we should be providing a connection to a university like they are doing in nevada. and then have the students who are graduates of the university go back to the districts that serve them. there's so many programs out there. we need systematize it. that requires that we prioritize this across the country. i want our government norths, our mayors and county leetders to give it some thought. we're at the doorstep of a crisis in our country. if we don't take it seriously, we're going to have schools closing. we don't need that. >> mr. secretary, this is an age-old conversation that's been going on for generations about teacher pay. they hold such a special place in our lives as close to anyone outside our own families.
yet we don't pay them and spend a ton of money in education. as you know well, on gross basis when you compare to the rest of the world, i know teachers who are watching just in the last couple years a trillion dollars go out the door, $1.9 trillion for congress. yet you can't add $3,000 to their salaries to keep them competitive to live on what they make. so what is the answer to the question of why teachers salaries can't get bumped up? >> it's a respect issue. when it doesn't become the priority, it doesn't become the attention it needs. i want to remind you of what happened during omicron. our schools were closed not necessarily because of covid, but because we had to quarantine educators that were close contacts. when our schools closed down, our communities closed down. it's unfortunate we're still talking about this and sadly i
wonder sometimes the profession is made up of 85% or more of women. would this be the case if it was 85% men? >> secretary, a question about the school year that's just starting now. as you look ahead, do you forsee the kinds of is disruptions because of covid, the pandemic that we have had the last couple years. do you think we're all back to normal now? where do you think we are on that continuum? >> look, i'm expecting the best year yet. we hanged covid-19. i'm not saying we're over it and shouldn't be precautious. we have to be precautious. student safety must remin our number one priority. but we have better science. we have the tools. we have vaccinations available. our students need to catch up academically. they need to be provided with more social engagement. they missed a lot in the last
couple years. i expect that the american rescue plan dollars are used to make sure students have more opportunities. it can't be what it was in march 2020. that's not good enough. students lost a lot. we have to make up for the school year. we know how to manage covid-19. we need to level up across the country. our students deserve it. >> before you go, i want to end where we started. and talk about teacher pay because you're saying that there's money allocated in this latest legislation that could be used for teacher pay. but what else could it be used for? what are they taking from in order to raise teacher pay and should something more targeted and focused in terms of legislation be passed to raise teacher pay because chances are not everybody is going to make the same decision across the country has to allocate that money. >> right. we would welcome that. i talked to parents across the country. they are saying they want to
make sure their children can catch up this year. so yes, i'll say the federal government, we pay for 10% of education nationwide. state and local government pay the rest. but in that 10%, you have seen a level of urgency from the president and the administration to lift up the profession, to provide rescue plan dollars. i want to see the same level of urgency from states and local leaders to make sure teachers are getting what they deserve because they serve such a critical role in the development of our country. >> as you look back now with some hindsight a couple years or so, looking back on how we handled our schools at the beginning of the crisis, we didn't know what was coming or how dangerous coronavirus was. but as you review with the people in your department, do you think the school should have opened sooner with fewer restrictions now that we know about kids tolerating coronavirus better than it did.
could kids have come back? could we have not had this sort of in some ways lost generation of kids because of coronavirus? >> i certainly don't believe it's a lost generation at all. if anything, as a father of two teenagers, my children developed skills that unfortunately took a pandemic, but they are able to now understand and appreciate the experiences that they have in their school. they are coming out stronger, but it's incumbent to make sure academically we're catching up our students and providing they want the support they need. to respond to your question, when the president took office, 46% of our schools were open full-time. less than half. by november, over 99% of our schools were open full-time for in-person learning. so we pushed to open up our schools safely. it's a local decision. so i can't speak about the whole country. i can tell you there's some places i wanted to see schools open quicker because we had
vaccination asks we knew what to do. but i can't speak for local communities and local context. what i can tell you is from day one, the president and myself made sure reopening schools was our priority. the president prioritized vaccinations for educators that summer. and we were able to reopen our schools and now reopening is the baseline. we have to do better for our students. they deserve it. they missed out on a lot. parents are asking for it. the funding is there from the federal level. we need to level up in this country. >> secretary of education, come back soon. still ahead, some dramatic developments in the legal issues for trump's inner circle. rudy giuliani is told he's a target in georgia's criminal investigation into the 2020 election. this as a trump business insider gets ready to plead guilty. and later it's primary day.
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what they were proposing, i thought was nuts. >> the day after eastman -- i don't remember why he called me. he text me or called me and wanted to talk with me. he said he couldn't reach others. and he started to ask me about something dealing with georgia and preserving something potentially for appeal. and said to him, are row out of your mind. i said i only want to hear two words coming out of your mouth for from now on. orderly transition. good, john, now i'm going to give you the best free legal advice you're getting in your
life. get a great criminal defense lawyer. you're going to need it. >> we left out the part where he said orderly transition, repeat it back to me. say it. say it. had the environmental lawyer said it back to him. the other guy donnahue is great too. dpo back to your office. we'll call you if there's an oil spill. but we're going to talk about all this, but when you think about the front palk of all the papers today. you have him being called to a grand jury to testify. so that's a criminal investigation likely surrounding january 6th. you've got the doj, obviously,
fighting yesterday, fighting the efforts to release the affidavit because there's an ongoing criminal investigation. you have rudy giuliani getting information that he's now possibly under criminal investigation because the republicans that run that state obviously recorded conversations of donald trump. and also reported on lindsey graham calling to try to have legitimate votes thrown out. donald trump calling telling them to rig the election and find one more vote than he lost by. and there is the new york investigation a as was brought up. it's really one criminal investigation after another. >> and the bill is coming due. that's what we're seeing here.
when you look at that list of headlines, it was a game to many people around donald trump. let's see if we can get a secretary of state in georgia to flip 11,000 votes and give to trump. let's let the cyber ninjas go in this. let's try as with learned from the "washington post" this morning to copy some of the data and voting machines and see what we can do with that. they were trying to please donald trump and now, as i say, the bill is coming due. he left an oil spill in his wake. now it's up to all these minions behind hum to try to clean it up. some of them, frankly r going to jail. >> this is a 24/7 job at this point. he's dealing with lawyers all day long. we'll get the latest now on all of this from nbc news chief white house correspondent kristen welker. >> reporter: overnight, former president trump calling for the immediate release of the completely unredacted affidavit in the interest of transparency on his social media platform. it comes as federal prosecutors push to keep key documents
related to this search of trump mar-a-lago home from view. revealing that it has information about important witnesses. asking a judge to keep the affidavit sealed following requests to unseal it from media companies, including nbc news. the affidavit is believed to contain critical information about the government's investigation into alleged mishandling of classified material. prosecutors argue making it public would cause significant and ir reparable damage to the investigation, which involves highly classified materials and highly sensitive information about witnesses. >> to me, until we see specificity within the affidavit, we will not have the kind of clarity that the american people need. >> earlier trump accused the fbi of stealing his three passports during the search. the fbi responding overnight saying it follows search and seizure procedures order by
courts, then returns items that do not need to be retained for law enforcement purposes. a justice department official telling nbc news the passports have been given back to the former president. trump has spent the last week attacking the fbi, baselessly accusing agents of planting evidence at marla go. that comes as the fbi and dhs step up security around the country after a spike in threats against law enforcement. now in an interview with fox news, trump warning the temperature has to be brought down in the country. if it isn't, terrible things are going to happen. nice threat. that was kristen welker reporting. joining us now is investigations correspondent tom winter. and former acting solicitor general and now an mississippi legal analyst. if i could just start with you. it feels like the word that really stuck out there and the justice department response was criminal.
what can a reasonable person deduce so far about what the search indicates and what they would have to conduct a search like that? >> so i think the justice department's filing was absolutely expected. when i was at the department, we would resist any calls like this to release information in an active investigation. so none of this is surprising. what was surprising is one thing that the justice department said at page 8 of the filing, which is we need to keep this affidavit sealed because witnesses would be compromised and techniques might be disclosed. they that does suggest they have a person or persons on the inside of mar-a-lago who are telling the fbi information about how trump has handled these documents. it also means there's some technical monitoring
capabilities. so if you're donald trump, that's really going to cause you more worry. it's already pathologically like a mob boss about people flipping on him. now he has to worry even more given his tortured relationship to truth. he has to fear everything he's to every person now. it's not just what's going on at mar-a-lago and that investigation and who is at marla go and who might be flipping on him. it's rudy giuliani, who is facing a criminal indictment in georgia. there's going to plead guilty this week of the trump organization. he's said he won't cooperate, but pleading guilty while the trump organization is facing a criminal trial in october, basically dooms that trial as well. so there's all of these different fronts. with all of it, donald trump is saying overnight as you were
saying a a moment ago, transparency, release the affidavit. give me a break. transparency, we have been asking ever since the search what in the world donald trump are you doing with these documents at mar-a-lago, these highly classified documents. why to you need electronic intercepts on the french president? we have heard nothing in response. >> so what can we read into what we do know? we don't know specifically what's in the documents. we know what kind of documents they are pause that was laid out by the department of justice. but if you are donald trump or in the inner circling of those people around him, what are you concerned about as you watched the pattern and the behavior of justice here? >> a couple different things. with respect to transparency, the attorney has the affidavit. they could potentially release that if they wanted to or put that information out there. i'm sure the justice department wouldn't be happy, but perhaps the president's attorneys think
it's a bad idea. it reads like a criminal complaint. they have a wide latitude in that search warrant to put a lot of information in there that can be damning for the target of the search. the target of that search 100% is the former president of the united states. i think another interesting thing that was included in a that document is they talked about the need for a grand jury secrecy. they said federal rules, which whenever we see that, a grand jury is definitely hearing information? that's not a complete surprise pause we know that the grand jury subpoena was issued previously in the course of looking into these documents. but i think when you look at it, the idea that the fbi went a as an errand boy for the national archives f that idea was alive, it's cold, dead, and burr rid after yesterday. it's very clear that this is a serious ongoing investigation. that people are speaking. and i think more details about that will come out in the course of the next couple days. but i think it's interesting
when you look at the totality of this investigation, clearly they think it's very seriously. the chief of the counterintelligence and exports section signed this court filing yesterday, so clearly this has gone to the top of the justice department for people that will look into counterintelligence matters, the secrets of the united states. i think there's a lot of information in there that points to the fact that this is a serious ongoing investigation. >> you have a criminal investigation into the documents and being subpoenaed before a grand jury, what does that grand jury likely look like? and what's it pertaining to most likely? >> with don't know exactly. we know there are the grand jury is looking to two different things. the fake electors plot as well as the capitol attack. the question we don't know is who are they looking at in response to these investigations. we know jeff clark is the guy at the environmental lawyer was
part of that. he was part of this whole plot to basically do on january 6th to throw out the vote. but we haven't totally know who else. my suspicious has been that donald trump is part of that grand jury investigation after all the grand jury has subpoenaed pat cipollone, trump's two top lawyers at the white house. i don't think you take that step just to get some mere information. and now with alan being called, he knows a lot about the january 6th plot so he has a lot of information. from the way he testified, congressional hearings are like a boring episode of law and order. now when he's involved, i think
it will make for interesting proceedings. the last thing i wanted to say, tom winter said unless he has information i don't, i don't believe that donald trump's attorneys or donald trump has access to the affidavit in the search at mar-a-lago. they just have the warrant itself. now we all do because it's bye-bye released. >> tom, so we talked about possible threats here and one of them, there's grave concern that this fbi agent's names were released because of the warrant put out on true social by someone close to president trump. that coincides with a rise in violent rhetoric towards them across the country. we had the incident in cincinnati and in pennsylvania. here in washington, the headquarters is surrounded by additional layers of security that went up. tell us the latest sources are saying about how concerned there are there could be more strikes at the fbi fuelled by what we're
hearing from the former president and his allies. >> with respect to the affidavit itself, in other words, where this investigation is going and what developed, that's something trump's attorneys don't have. it helps the case of this news organization and others that argued for the release that the president is now saying he agrees with it. but ultimately it's not up to him. it's up to the judge and the justice department has a huge saying to that. with respect to agents and the fbi, i think when you look at it in having a significant amount of phone calls. just to see what is going on. but everybody feels this sense that the former president of the united states who commands a very loyal audience and the audience he has just look at january 6th. so when you look at potential for threats with respect to
federal law enforcement, it is significant to seat the types of informs that's gone out. a person was arrested yesterday. we had the incident in cincinnati last week where that individual died, but tried to commit an act of violence on that field office there. so when you look at this, it's something that's very real. it's something that's very significant. it's something that they are closely paying attention to. separately, we were talking about giuliani earlier and this idea of a target. it does mean something different in georgia. it's not quite the same significance as if he was named a target on the federal level with respect to him potentially turning against former president trump, i think that possibility at this point is low. the reason why is the attorney yesterday who represents giuliani told me it was, quote, delusional he would speak about a the conversations between giuliani and the former president. that those would be protected by attorney/client privilege. giuliani is somebody who made it
clear was the president's personal attorney and vice versa. so the possibility of him talking about what i'm sure investigators are really interested in, which is what did the president tell you shs the idea of that coming out in grand jury testimony as soon as tomorrow is probably a little more not. >> tom winter and neil, thank you both for being on. just to kind of getting a sense of this and imagining how different this is for donald trump for the former president, unlike during the mueller investigation where donald trump was seemingly, or at least in his own mind, on the inside, able to potentially pull some sort of strings and strong arm people, or threatenen people or whatever, he is now completely on the outside.
with no contact and no ability in the aa tempt to call him goes how far away he is from the ideas and it just seems knowing him that this would cause him a lot of distress to not have that kind of control over the situation. or seeming control. >> and they call to merrick garland, is that a threat? a lot of people might look at it as a threat. i don't know. >> it's silly because he could release everything to everybody and he doesn't. >> he most definitely could. >> even during the mueller investigation, which just tormented the guy, he could have fired mueller. he had that power. he did understand it could cause a constitutional crisis. fst but this is the first time he's really doesn't have anybody in authority to call. and you look at the third rate lawyers who have represented
him. and you see either he can't get competent legal counsel to represent him or doesn't want to spend money on competent legal counsel. and all of this comes at a time when, again, the legal challenges are mounting. and am to a fooer pitch. this is just a bill that's been coming due for years. whether it's not giving a damn about america's national security, not giving a damn about the united states constitution, not giving a damn that your words actually whip people into such a frenzy that you are at the center of a fascist attempt to overthrow the constitution and the united
states government and want to overthrow a peaceful, legitimate election. in america if you do things like this, this is not russia. this is not china. this is not turkey. the bill comes due in america's democracy. i think that's what we're start ing to see now. >> yeah, and a good reminder for people who serve donald trump and think they are going to be rewarded for it in the end, ask someone like alan, who has been his financial right hand for yoorz, well before he was in politics who is now pleading guilty in a tax case. you can ask rudy giuliani what's going to happen to him. we'll see. all these people who scurried around donald trump and did his bidding and did all his favors because they thought somehow there was a reward at the end. for a lot of them, it looks like it's going to be fines or jail time or we'll see what else. but there's so many threads to
this story and so many people are now in trouble. it's all crumbling around them now. a man was arrested and charged with making threats against the fbi. police say adam bias is charged with impeding or retaliating against law enforcement officers. he recently posted a variety of threats on the far right website gab following the search of former president trump's mar-a-lago home. he compared federal agents to the kgb and nazi officers and threatened to kill them. he was arrested late friday. let's bring in contributing writer if the atlantic and senior fellow, peter waner. good morning. it's good to see you. your latest piece is titled "now they're calling for violence." pete writes in the sane world, a partisan republican reaction to
the search of donald trump's florida home would be something like this. we don't believe trump did anything yong wrong. we're skeptical about their actions and will wait to see the evidence before we make any claims or judgments. unfortunately, the reaction online in the right wing media. and even among lawmakers has been far from sane. it's been unhinged ominous. hat this age, the responsible action is to withhold judgment to wait and see. to base it on the facts and evidence as they become known. such an approach is alien to the modern day gop. the entire incentive structure is to use language that is belligerent and even crazed. this has proved there's no line trump republicans won't cross, no charge they won't make. it's now all about one upsmanship with each pesh try og to make a more freakish claim.
and as you know, many of these lawmakers doing it cynically knowing better. but it plays to their audience. it fires people up. but unfortunately, reality, which we learned on january 6th and seeing again now in scattered cases is they speak to an audience that takes that very seriously. and will respond with violence. >> these are hot summer days. you have a lot of dry grass. they are using flame throwers. and we know from history and we know even from our own history including january 6th that if you use rhetoric that encourages political violence, you often get political violence. and that's where we're going. fringe has always existed in american politics. what we're seeing now, which is really unusual for the country
is they are amplifying their instincts. we are seeing this play out. my fear is it's going to play out worse. they are looking for the january 6th playbook one more time. >> in your atlantic piece, thought what was so fascinating is you didn't have to go into the bowls of the internet to find hate speech. you quoted one republican congress member after another. calling them communists, comparing tome to communists. calling for the defunding of the fbi. just extreme. we have seen them step forward trying to debate and push back against that, but it just
reminds me of the fact that when you and i debated each other during the biden administration, and we had ongoing debates, it was about deficits it was about fiscal policy and foreign policy. now these debates are literally about whether violence against donald trump is legitimate or not. >> this is a party that's arsonist right now. and there's another point that i think it's an important one. which is that this is evidence, i think, of the growing pathologies in the republican party. it's sicker now even than when it was during the trump presidency. it's not a personality. because donald trump's may weak on the republican party, but those melodies and pathologies have been spread and unleashed. they are now manifesting themselves in all sorts of different ways.
but this was not the posture of the republican party even around january 6th. that is that they were not using that kind of rhetoric. so we're in a situation in that respect that i think is even more dangerous than january 6th. and portrays the republican party in an even worse way. >> let's talk about the first house speaker. he never shocks. you'd be shocked but not surprised. just this language. this language from a former republican speaker about law enforcement officers. first of all, they suggested that the fbi might have planted evidence against trump and you quote him saying it would be better off to think of of these people, talking about law enforcement officers, as woves.
wolves who want to eat you, wolves who want to dominate. this is a former republican speaker talking about law enforcement officers and comparing them to wolves that want to eat you. the fbi has, quote, declared war on the american people at such a level and with total dishonesty we are seeing the ugly face of a tyranny. you have known this guy for 30 years. you just look at newt. first republican speaker in a generation, you look at rudy giuliani, a goi whose first term in new york city, liberals hate when people say this, was remarkable. if you look at the city and how
it was turned around. liberals was say it was this commissioner that did it. whoever it was, under rudy giuliani in his first term, i have never seen a major city turned around like new york city. it's an extraordinary story to tell. and he sold his soul to a failed reality tv host. these people are unrecognizable. at what cost? >> yeah, the cost is going to be considerable. certainly in terms of the cost of history, the cost of the reputation and when it comes to rudy giuliani, it may cost him prison time as well. you're exactly right. you see figures who know better, who have acted better in the past who have different people than they were. i will say about newt gingrich,
i'm not so sure. reflecting back, he turns out to be one of the significant and really malignant figures in american politics. he had this playbook back in the '70s and '80s about the rhetorical war-like language that he used. it's worse now, but this maybe fundamentally who he is. it's just that so many of the republicans have shown themselves to accommodate thelss to whatever the environment is. in a way, it's a deep cultural insight, which is the environment matters a lot. john kennedy said there's a reason profile is encouraged. they are not many people in politics or any arena of human life that have the courage to stand up when it's difficult to stand up. when there's a cost to it. what we're seeing is this radicalization of the party,
which started with a base, amplified by trump and has spread. really after republican after republican has accommodated themselves to it. we now have a situation in which liz cheney, who was as conservative as can be is a pariah in the party and marjorie taylor greene is more popular than she is. so this is really a dangerous time for people like you and i, who have been part of the republican party, it's a painful time. because this party is a dagger pointed at american democracy. we have to name that. >> mika, just to add what was said about newt gingrich, you have a prominent fox news saying of the fbi, they have declared war on us. and now it's game on. i wouldn't even get into what steve bannon and others are suggesting, but when the stakes are raised that high, people will hear that. just like on january 6th and say it makes sense to show up at an fbi field office with a nail gun and an ar-15 and take out the
people who are trying to take out our president. people hear that, people who some of them perhaps are not well or have been indoctrinate ed into this, and they will carry out violence in. >> and the person that you're talking about, and there's several, the bad thing here is they know. they know it's irresponsible. they know that joe biden won the election. they know jan 6ths was a violent assault on our capitol. they know the truth. >> and they also know that you don't take classified documents away from your office. top secret documents that can only be viewed in specific places. i know we don't know that, but the fact that the justice department has said this happened, the fact that donald
trump has admitted that it happened. the fact that he has seven different stories now at last count on what happened. put they all circle back to the fact that he took top secret documents. he took classified documents. and the one thing that no republican is asking, no republican is asking is why did you take classified documents out of the white house. why did you take top secret documents out of the white house. they don't ask that question. because what do they do? they want to investigate the investigators when the investigation is on a failed reality tv show host who lost the white house, lost the senate, lost the house for republicans. they don't want to ask what is the relevant question. why did he take those classified documents and do something that would put every one of those
members in congress in jail if they had done the same thing. >> if this were joe biden, come on. they know. thank you so much. we'll be reading the new piece for "atlantic." still ahead on "morning joe," live reports from wyoming and alaska. elections today could derail one stoied political career and reignite another. >> or could actually be the beginning of the next chapter. >> that's right. steve kornacki takes his place at the big board with what to expect. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. vo: as families struggle with inflation- congress and president biden are doing something about it. congress just passed the inflation reduction act, reducing costs for millions of families. it lowers the cost of drugs and ramps up production of american-made clean energy.
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where republican congresswoman liz cheney is facing a number of challengers including trump endorsed harriet hagueman. cheney lost her position and house republican leadership in the wyoming republican party voted to cesor her for speaking out against former president trump and for joining the house january 6th committee as its vice chair. cheney said again and again her top priority is to stop trump from winning the presidency again describing him as a threat to american democracy. joining us now at the big board is national political correspondent for nbc news and msnbc steve kornacki. good morning. a big day in wyoming and alaska. we'll talk about that in a moment. polling has been spotty, but a big lead over cheney. >> the polling hasn't been encouraging for liz cheney. you take a look at the match. there's a third candidate on the
ballot. but hageman has gotten the endorsement dth d. leading by lopsided margins. in the polling, you have the broader context for this. you mentioned ten republican members of congress of the house in the wake of january 6th. voted to impeach donald trump. cheney was the most prominent and most persistent in her criticisms and attacks on donald trump. just ache ta look here. this is the track record of those ten. what's happened to them after casting those votes. you can see here a number of them chose not to run for reelection. then you have tom rice in south carolina. peter meyer we saw lost in michigan. jaime butler lost in washington state. you had two who survived
primaries. david valadao in california, it's one of the top proprimaries. top two advance. and donald trump did not make any endorsement in this primary. he stayed away and david got through to the second round of voting. and dan newhouse, he did endorse a challenger, but it was one of those top two primaries. it was a very crowded field. a lot of different trump-aligned candidates. new house got through with about 25% of the vote. so here's liz cheney from the trump standpoint. this is much more what he's looking for when he has candidates against other republicans. it's more of a clean one-on-one matchup. there's a third candidate barely registering. so trump is getting that one-on-one matchup with cheney in the polling.
s. >> in this primary season of shape shifting republican candidates who are trying to become as closely aligned with donald trump as they can be, even though they have no history of it daiting back to a month or so, the closing ad is who she's always been for the last couple years. and she's saying take me or leave me. this is the truth. this is who donald trump is and ha he's done country. this is what he may still do and she's perhaps to lose by 20 or more points to make that stand. >> of course, she is. we'll be watching this and then see what happens next for her. if she does lose that election, which it appears she will. voters in alaska today will use the ranked choice voting system for the first time. i find this fascinating. this means all candidates will compete on the same ballot and the top four vote getters regardless of party affiliation will move on to the final election in november. one of the most watched races
will be the senate primary. lisa murkowski was one of seven republican senator who is voted to impeach president trump after january 6th. i believe that was his second impeachment trial. she was the only one with the reelection bid this year and has become a top target for trump, who has backed challenger kelly chewbacca. both are expected to advance to the election along with democrat pat chesbro. in a house special election, four candidates are running to finish the rest of don young's term. the lawmaker died earlier this year. former vice presidential candidate and governor of alaska sarah palin finished first in the special elections june primary. she has the endorsement of the former president. at the same time, as voters will choose candidates for the house primary, all candidates in these special election are also on that ballot.
so steve, play out alaska for us and how it looks for sarah palin and also the senate candidates. >> this one, this house special election in alaska tonight i think is where the real suspense is. that will sort of spill over into the early morning hours. is and potentially the next couple weeks. as you say, this is going to be decided ultimately by ranked choice voting. so what you're seeing here is the results from the preliminary. what they do in this ranked choice system in alaska, democrat, republican, they run on the same ballot and then the top four advance. so initially in this house special election, you had the top four candidates. there was a fourth candidate who you don't see on the screen who also advanced. he was sort of aligned with democrats. gross dropped out of the race, got his name off the ballot. so there are going to be three names on the runoff ballot for this special election today in alaska. and voters, what they are doing is ranking them by first choice,
second choice, third choice. here's the expectation for how this is going to play out with only three candidates on the ballot. there's one democrat you see there. only got 10% in the preliminary, but she's going to monopolize the democratic vote today. if you take that, she may finish in first place in the initial count. and then that's going to create some suspense here. palin or begich, they are both republicans, which of these finishes second. that's a crucial question because in the ranksed choice system, they will do one, two, three. whoever finishes third will be eliminated and supporters second choice will get reallocated. so we have seen some polling in this race that is suggested that just by monopolizing the democratic vote is prime to finish in first place, but palin and begich are in a neck and
neck race for second place here. if begich gets second place, that's it, palin loses the special election and support etc. get reallocated. if you assume her supporters would back begich because they are not going to back a democrat, then he might be well positioned to winnen the ranked choice round. the interesting scenario here is if palin gets second instead of begich, if you take a look at the polling, the numbers in alaska are very, very high. would there be a slice of voters who would not make palin their second choice and could that matchup win the ranked choice there. we won't know on the ranked choice for a couple weeks, it will probably be the end of this month or september 1st when they do the ranked choice process on this. but what we will find out probably not tonight, but in the next couple days wlrks it's palin or begech who finishes in
the second place spot. all of these candidates are doing it all over again in a primary in a november run yf off. then you mentioned that senate race as well. honestly, not a ton of suspense tonight. this is about the prelude to murkowski in november. >> steve kornacki, thank you so much. we'll see you tomorrow. coming up, live reports from wyoming and alaska. ahead of today's closely watched primary elections in those two states. "morning joe" is coming right back. es "morning joe" is coming right back
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russian-occupied city to leave as soon as possible. in a statement sunday, ukraine's deputy prime minister wrote, quote, evacuate. a harsh winter is coming. we need to help you to save you from the cold and the enemy. the appeal comes as ukrainian forces prepare counter offensive to take back the city. evacuations from that region would make it easier for ukraine forces to operate there without inflicting cillan casualties. officials say while ukrainian forces have not advanced in weeks their artillery campaign has slowed the flow of russian arms and troops into that area. >> meanwhile, new explosions rocked the russian controlled crimea region this morning. russian officials say the blasts took place at an ammunition storage facility injuring two people and disrupting train services. it is still unclear who is behind the attack. but in a statement, the russian defense ministry said, quote,
the fire was the result of a sabotage. this is the second attack in a week to rock the crimea area which moscow annexed in 2014. ukraine has not publicly claimed responsibility for the strikes but if kyiv is behind the attacks, it shows ukrainian forces new capability to strike deeper into russian territory. joining us now, live from kyiv, correspondent josh ledderman. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: well we all remember alex vindman, the face of president trump's first impeachment trial who blue the whistle about the infamous call where trump tried to strong arm president zelenskyy into opening investigation news hunter biden. we could now report that alex vindman is now back in kyiv, the city where he was born. he slipped into the country over the border from poland and is
now here in ukraine meeting with top u.s. officials from the embassy, from the state department and the military as well as top ukrainian officials. and i spoke with him exclusively this morning here in kyiv where he was fairly critical of the biden administration's handling of this war so far. faulting the biden white house for being too slow. say it is absolutely time for the u.s. to designate russia as a state sponsor of terrorism as well as in the long-term to provide fighter aircraft, more long range artillery to the ukrainians and i asked him what his advice would be to president biden about how to improve the u.s. response to this war. take a listen. >> take the courageous decisions now. don't wait, four, five months to offer himars and wait until next month and the next tragedy to offer long range fires or aircraft. do that now. because we're going to get to
it. >> reporter: of course, lieutenant colonel vindman had a front-row seat in the white house to the way that president trump and other top officials handled classified information. and i asked him about his concerns about trump possessing some of those top u.s. national security secrets at mar-a-lago. this is what he said. >> it is hard to fathom the kind of risks that were in there. we're talking about where our nuclear stockpile might be, how effective it is. and this guy keeps if with him because he thinks it is cool. look, i have a box full of nuclear secrets that could -- because it is fun. that is his callousness with regard to national security. it is -- >> do you worry he could share those secrets with other countries. >> i think that is a legitimate concern. >> reporter: he also told me there is a direct thread between the first impeachment and the war that russia is waging in
ukraine. he said ukraine would be if a far better position to defend itself if the former president has not undermined the national security mika. >> thank you very much. and coming up, one of our next guests is taking a look at arizona politics and how a growing number of republican candidates and government officials are in state are increasingly rejecting democratic principles. what it means for the rising extremism we're seeing within the gop. "morning joe" is coming right back. ck
classified information. no one will be above the law. >> that was donald trump six years ago to the day. promising to enforce laws on classified material. fast forward to today, where federal prosecutors oppose efforts to make public the affidavit supporting the search warrant for the former president trump's florida home. they say it would cause significant and irreparable damage to the ongoing criminal investigation. we'll have the very latest developments on this. also ahead, on this fourth hour of "morning joe," one of the final tests of trump's hold on the gop. before the november midterms as voters head to the polls in two key states. we'll get live reports from wyoming and alaska just ahead. and quote, the arizona republican party anti-democracy
experiment. that is the title of the new expose from a claimed writer robert draper into what is going on in one of the nation's key swing states and robert will be our guest ahead. willie. >> let's start this hour with justice department attorneys now asking the judge who approved the search warrant for former president trump's mar-a-lago home to keep the accompanying affidavit under seal. the affidavit contains the government's reasons for conducting the search of trump's home. federal prosecutors say it contains information about witnesses including witnesses interviewed by government. also about specific investigative techniques and information required by law be kept under seal. they say revealing the affidavit would compromise the investigation and could chill future cooperation, and other high-profile investigations. at the same time trump along with his alliesond capit