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tv   The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  August 18, 2022 11:00pm-12:00am PDT

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nicole walker gets tonight's last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts right now. >> tonight, legal walls a little closer to the former guy? a judge considers weather there is more he should make public about the search at mar-a-lago. and trump's former right hand financial man likely heading to notorious rikers island jail. then, the dangerous threat of right-wing extremism. a children's hospital in danger because of hate filled disinformation. poll workers, law enforcement and now a hospital -- the threat is real. plus, the senate is a toss-up. there's diminished hope for republicans taking control. and mitch mcconnell now blaming candidate quality. that is code for, blame it on donald trump,
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with the clock ticking toward the midterms. the 11th hour getting underway on this thursday night. good evening once again, i am stephanie ruhle. new revelations about the fbi's search of mar-a-lago may soon see the light of day. several media organizations, including nbc, were in a south florida court today, asking a judge to unseal the affidavit behind last week's search and seizure at donald trump's florida home. judge bruce reinhardt told the justice department he is inclined to release a redacted or edited version of the affidavit. that document details what prosecutors call probable cause, the evidence that brought the fbi agents to trump's home in the first place. prosecutors want to keep the entire thing under wraps. but the judge today ordered them to list their proposed redactions within a week. while the former guy, in many of his allies, have said they support the release of an
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unredacted version, this afternoon trump supporters who were angered by the fbi search showed up outside the courthouse. nbc's cal perry was there. >> we have seen trump supporters circling the courthouse in jeeps with the flags, american flags, don't tread on me flags, and donald trump flags. the doj, for their part, talked about this, talked about the atmosphere, talked about the safety when it comes to witnesses and when it comes to what happened after the search. the political atmosphere, as they put, it in the court, as for a reason why some of these things should stay sealed. here is what we said in court,, quote -- and this is a doj official. quote, this is a volatile situation with respect to this particular search address on the political spectrum, especially, quote, with one side in particular. >> trump lawyer, christina bobb was inside the courtroom today. however, she was just a spectator. she made no arguments. she filed no motions. she did not lift a single
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finger that would advance getting this affidavit unsealed. however, tonight she was talking on television and she was asked about that very thing. >> we believed that judicial watch in some of the other parties actually had argued it quite well and we believe it was very interesting and somewhat encouraging that you had parties from both sides of the aisle -- of course, liberal media outlets, coupled with a conservative watchdog group, really together on the same side. we really just chose to see how it would play out. we need to wait and see. i cannot be certain at this point, because we have not seen the affidavit. we certainly have not seen the redactions and how it is going to play out. but we will be making that decision as it comes out. we have got to see. it we haven't seen it. it has been under seal. so, i don't know. we can't say. >> trump, who has been in thousands of lawsuits, who is known to fight and fight back, is going to sit back and see how this thing goes.
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the judge did release additional documents that were part of the search warrant that was made public last week. these noted that the search was related to, quote, willful retention of national defense information, concealment of government records, and obstruction. the mar-a-lago search turned up 11 sets of classified documents. and sources tell nbc news that more than one week later, investigators are still sifting through everything. and that is just one of the many legal issues the former guy is dealing with right now. tonight, there is a guilty plea in another case. the former chief financial officer for the trump organization, 75-year-old allen weisselberg, stood in a new york courtroom this morning and pleaded guilty to 15 felony counts. prosecutors say he failed to pay millions in taxes and helped top trump organization executives do the same for more than a dozen years. he is now facing five months in jail, millions of dollars in penalties, and has to testify at the trial of the trump
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organization this fall if he is asked. weisselberg has been a key part of the trump team for nearly half a century. donald trump's father, fred, hired weisselberg more than 40 years ago. later today, the trump organization issued a statement that said this, in part -- mr. weisselberg, in an effort to put this matter behind him and get on with his life, decided that the best course of action for himself and his family was to plead guilty. jury selection in the trump organization trial is expected to start at the end of october. with that, let's get smarter with the help of our lead off panel tonight. nbc justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, david fahrenthold, and you new york times investigative reporter covering the trump family and its business interests. and chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney and former senior fbi official. can, start us off, the judge saying he is inclined to release part of this affidavit. is that we were expecting?
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>> [inaudible] says we have a pending criminal investigation with grand jury information and sensitive names of witnesses, names of federal agents, investigative techniques. we need to protect that. generally, the judge goes along. in this case, he says, they didn't meet their burden. let's remember what this is. this is an affidavit that the fbi agent swore out to the judge, to request the search warrant and to make the case that it was probable cause a crime had been committed and that evidence of that crime was present at mar-a-lago. so, it could contain almost everything the fbi knows about this case. and the justice department said they were very concerned, in particular, about witnesses. and even if witnesses are not named, people being able to identify witnesses by their description and the future witnesses in this case might be intimidated -- for that reason, i strongly suspect that many, many critical details, if not all of them, will end up being
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redacted in this thing, stephanie. because the judge is now giving the justice department a week to propose redactions blacking out portions of it. and the judge actually said, whether the final product makes sense or means anything to the public is not really my concern. this could end up being, he said, meaningless gibberish. so, it is very unlikely that we are going to see that's much that's reveler tory. but i do think that because he is [inaudible] stephanie, he must think, the judge, that there are some things and that affidavit that would inform the public that can be released. >> chuck, inclined to released is now they're done deal, but it is certainly not with the doj wanted. how did this happen? >> you are right about, that stephanie. look, it is a little bit surprising, i think ken has described it perfectly. normally, when you have an ongoing investigation in the department of justice said they did, these affidavits remain sealed. but the reasons [inaudible] protect witnesses -- --
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leaks. and techniques, to make sure you don't give a roadmap to [inaudible] the investigation. how did it happen? you have two competing interests in the courtroom. both of them are legitimate. press organizations noted know that there is a great deal of public curiosity and want this stuff now. and the department of justice does not want to tout because it will undermine there investigation. but i think one of those is far more legitimate and far and more compelling than the other. and that is, they need to keep this affidavit under seal for now, while the investigation plays out. i think the judge made a mistake. i think he was trying to split the baby, and in some way, made a mistake. i wouldn't be shocked if the department of justice came back with one of two things, stephanie. either a heavily redacted proposed release, which, as ken, described, would render it virtually meaningless. or, perhaps, under seal, in another pleading, another document, filed with the judge, explaining why releasing any of it would be a mistake. and let me add one more thing to that, if i may. if the judge does something
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that the government simply cannot live with, they have the right to appeal it. so, this process of deciding what would be unsealed, if anything, could take a lot longer than you might imagine. >> all right, so that is what the doj's doing, that is why the judge is doing. let's talk about trump's team, chuck. because trump's lawyer was in the courtroom, though she said absolutely nothing. but she has got lots of things to say tonight on conservative television mocking the department of justice and those expected redactions. watch this. >> i think that there won't be very much transparency. i would expect that it would get a lot of black ink all over that piece of paper, if i was the doj -- the biden doj -- i would probably be redacting everything other than the word and and the. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. but here is the thing, chuck. this is all a performance on his team's part. a big, big show. she is talking big but she sat on the sidelines a day, filed no motions, asked for absolutely nothing.
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why is the trump world not formally demanding the affidavits release or doing anything about the search that they believe was unlawful? all they are doing is talking. >> you are right. but they do a lot of that, stephanie, and often it doesn't make much sense. you played a clip from the other attorney first, but ms. bobb. what struck me about that, and it seemed rather disingenuous -- she said on one hand, they wanted to see how the other side did at the argument before deciding what to do themselves. however -- this, i guess, is the other hand, stephanie -- at that point, they can't. if the other side had done terribly, they are not able to stand up and then be heard, not realistically, because they hadn't filed anything in the case in front of the judge. so, that made no sense at all. it seems to me to be sort of filling the space with noise but not with actual legal arguments and not putting anything at risk. in other words, if the judge rules against, them well, they
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didn't participate, so they are not at fault. and if the judge rules for them, it is because they articulated that point of view on various networks. so, it seems to me to be a little bit of wanting to have your cake anita too and not taking a real position in court, understanding that the department will likely redact as much of the documents document as it possibly can and then complain loudly that they had been treated unjustly. it seems to me to be completely disingenuous. >> ken, let's talk about the documents, the boxes and boxes of documents that were seized last week that investigators are still going through. donald trump knew he would be in trouble if he did not return them. apparently, he defied a subpoena that was demanding them. does that not tell you that the contents inside those boxes were so damning that he could not to return them? >> i'm not sure what it tells me, stephanie. it's such an interesting mystery.
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one possibility is he was just stubborn. he is quoted in saying, in one account, these are not their documents, these are my documents. and that, is of course, a fundamental misunderstanding of how presidential records work. these documents are the property of the u.s. government. by the way, whether they are classified or not, because the statutes at issue in the warrant, as chuck and others have been saying all week, do not require that the documents be classified, though in the espionage act, most cases involve classified information. there is a whole range of possibilities here, stephanie. you have a president who, we know from our reporting, had a penchant for grabbing intelligence documents from his briefings and taking them away from the briefers. and they did not know would ever happen to them. so, that is one possibility, that these boxes include some of those documents. and then you have that effort by kash patel and some others, who were helping trump gather up documents about the russia investigation, and they tried to declassify them at the end of his presidency. it's not clear that they were successful. they thought they were going to
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expose wrongdoing inside the fbi, and people inside the government were saying, wait a second, these are sources and methods, you can't with that stuff out. it's quite possible some of those documents found the way to mar-a-lago. we will just have to wait and see. but one thing is clear. there is a pending criminal investigation that the justice department is taking very seriously, investigating whether anyone mishandled these documents or otherwise broke the law. >> he was just stubborn and liked to grab stuff, and that is how documents containing nuclear information should end up in his private home in florida? we will find out. there is another big story for us, all about the former guy tonight. the guilty plea of his financial right-hand man, allen weisselberg. nbc's kristen welker we'll will bring that down now. >> allen weisselberg, the former chief financial officer pleaded guilty to tax fraud charges, admitting he took one point $7 million in untapped unchecked perks, including free rent, school tuition and multiple mercedes automobiles.
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weisselberg agreed to pay nearly $2 million in taxes and finds, and serve nearly five months in jail. as part of the plea deal, weisselberg is expected to provide information about those business dealings, but not about his former boss. >> and if he does not hold up his end of the plea deal, weisselberg could face 15 years in prison. that is a lot longer than five months. david, you have been reporting on trump's finances for years. how big of a deal is this guilty plea, for weisselberg, for trump, and for the company? >> well, it certainly -- [inaudible] i didn't think i've ever see it. allen weisselberg is perhaps more important in the trump organization than trump was. he was the man who ran sort of all the organizational and financial and organizational aspects of that company for 20 years. so, to take a guy like that, out of the organization,, to have a guy like that plead guilty, is a huge blow to the operations of the company. to me, the striking thing is just how small -- i mean, the numbers are big but this is a big company and
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weisselberg got paid a lot of money and he put himself on the line. he got himself into this kind of trouble for a relatively small amount of money -- to me, it just shows how common lying and dishonesty are -- how normal that was within the company, that he would do it for such small stakes. >> but here's what's not normal. whenever somebody link to trump gets in trouble, he likes to say, they are a coffee boy, low-level, barely knew them. he cannot say that this time. allen weisselberg was part of the fabric of the trump family. >> that's right. like i said, you could take out -- in a company, you could take out one of the trump children, even don himself. as long as you left weisselberg, it could keep going for a long time. he was the indispensable man. i think, in many ways, he still is. look, today, they threw him a birthday party, after he agreed to plead guilty. so, he still remains very, very essential to the operations of that company. so, yes, this is not somebody that could be disregarded as distant or barely knew about him. he is the heart of the operation. >> but if he is going to be forced to testify next month,
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or in october, when the trial starts, is the trump organization going to be throwing parties for him? the fact that he was doing things for top executives, there are no top executives outside the trump family. this is not some fortune 500 company. this is a rinky dink family operation. >> that's what's so interesting to me. our story says that the trump organization had a chance to plead guilty here and could have -- if they had pleaded guilty and accepted some kind of financial penalties, it could have reduced weisselberg penalties as well. but the trump org side to stick it out, go to trial, a trial that certainly has the deck stacked against them because of allen weisselberg being a witness. the key here is that you are right. they have not established a criminal case against donald trump himself. and to do, that you would need to show trump understanding what was going on understanding that he was breaking the law and doing it anyway in a world where he does not use email at all. so, there is no paper trail in that way. it is all done verbally. and the guy he done verbally
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with, is weisselberg. and if [inaudible] is going to make that case, it's gonna be very, very hard for the manhattan da to make that case against all trump the person, even if they can make it against the company. >> but donald trump the person is the company. so, chuck, when and if weisselberg testifies next month, can you actually separate the two? like, the company is true trump. there is nobody else. >> you are right, but trump won't be on trial, the company will be on trial. but stephanie, you and david are getting at something really interesting to me. as a former federal prosecutor if someone pled guilty and agreed to cooperate, they do not get to pick and choose against whom they cooperate. they have to cooperate fully against anyone and anybody that we ask questions about. and so that is the weird thing here to me. admittedly, i was never a new york state prosecutor. they may do business differently. but he is agreeing to plead guilty and testify against the trump organization. but not against individuals. and i'm not quite sure how people get to make that deal.
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you are either in or you are out. you are either cooperating or you are not. so, this does strike me as a bit unusual. >> and where he is headed, at least for a few months, potentially rikers island -- that is not a country club jail. david fahrenthold, chuck rosenberg and ken dilanian, thank you all for starting us off tonight. when we come back, the same sort of lies and vitriol that has people threatening poll workers and law enforcement, now have a children's hospital in boston at serious risk. former cia insider is up next on the dangers of disinformation. and later, as the top senate republicans questioned the, quote, quality, of his own parties candidates. we will ask one of our favorite historians whether anything surprises him these days. the 11th hour just getting underway on important thursday night. son here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85, and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget,
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is facing a barrage of threats tonight over a false social media post. a far-right social media account attacked the hospitals health care -- claiming it performs hysterectomies -- the academy of pediatrics describes gender affirming care for children as the integration of medical, mental health and social services. but the boston hospital denies performing gender affirming surgery on any patient younger than 18. that still has not stopped the dangerous threats and
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disinformation. here is what one doctor at another boston hospital had to say about it. >> it has been very hard for me over the years, to care for lgbtq youth, and engage in what is really the standard of care, evidence-based treatment, and then to have people throw terms around like pedophile or child abuse or. and then we see this happening to my colleagues. and it is really heartbreaking to have watch happen. >> heartbreaking and dangerous. let's bring in tracy walder, former cia officer and fbi agent. she's the author of the book, the unexpected spy. tracy, this is not an isolated incident. what on earth is working these people up to such a frenzy that they would want to threaten a children's hospital over a social post? >> thank you so much for having me. i think it is sort of the intersection of a bunch of different things. i think you have covid
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exacerbating peoples access to online and the time that people spent online. and through those online channels, you have far right, far left, whatever -- they kind of went further down the rabbit hole. but i think what is also really important, we talk about the influence of social media and these folks becoming radicalized. but we really don't talk about the factors that really get them to this point, that get them to become radicalized. and really, the biggest factor is, this quest for significance. so, a lot of these folks felt like their lives don't matter. they felt like they didn't have an impact and what they were doing. and they found a sense of purpose in these actions. and then i think the second factor is that permission to use violence. we are hearing this whole discussion about this pending civil war and to take up arms. and they are feeling like they have the permission to do that. and finally, we are looking at community or people that support that use of violence. and we saw senator grassley
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talking about the hiring of the 87,000 irs agents. and to take up arms, they are matthew with ar-15s. and i think this is really causing this pervasive amount of threats of all different venues. >> but no one gave this movement permission to be violent. just ask the insurrectionists. would you then call this, what we are seeing, domestic terrorism? a threat of domestic terrorism. >> so, in my personal opinion, i do believe that they are domestic terrorists. really, i worked at the cia, i worked at the fbi. i spent a lot of time, my background was in working in counterterrorism -- and the reality is, everyone is radicalized for the most part, in the same way. it doesn't matter what you believe, who you are, what your gender is and what you are religion is. and really, if we look up what's domestic terrorism is, it's violent criminal acts committed by individuals and groups to really further
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ideological goals. and that is what is going on here. they have ideological goals, whether it is the children's hospitals, whether it is abortion clinics, whether it he's january 6th. these are ideological goals that stem from politics, religion, and social beliefs. >> they do stem from politics. and when you go back down the path, they stem from a right-wing media and the gop. former cia director michael hayden just yesterday agreed on line that's today's republican party is the most dangerous political force he has ever seen. do you agree with that? i mean, that is a heavy statement from the former head of the cia. >> i actually do agree with that. i have had a lot of time to really reflect on that. i don't want to use that lightly, in terms of how i feel. the thing is, when we see senators -- so, you know, sitting members that were elected to these offices, really encourage these conspiracy theories, i think
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that is where we have seen the shift. the reality is, the deep state has existed since the formation, really, of our country. and these ideas have existed but they have always been on the fringes. but now we have, i guess, this mainstream validation of them, really, solely by the republican party. and i have to agree with general hayden here. >> so if you are law enforcement right now, how difficult is it to monitor and track these threats? they are coming from everywhere. they are based on lies. and they could pop up in any given place. i mean, a children's hospital? based on a social media post? >> you are absolutely right. i think it is incredibly difficult and this sounds really disconcerting. but it is almost impossible to monitor all of these it's almost like playing a game of whack-a-mole. you shut down one site, i saw that libs of tiktok, their account was suspended on facebook today.
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you shut that down and they just find another platform to be on. the reality is, we can only track what we know. there are so many websites out there that we just don't know exist. and unless it is really brought to the attention of law enforcement, it becomes extremely difficult to track that. >> it is a difficult time to be in law enforcement, that is for sure. tracy walder, thank you for joining us tonight, we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> when we come back, it was not all that long ago when republicans were feeling pretty darn good about the midterms. well, tonight, maybe not so much. and some republicans, really important ones, they are blaming the former guy's favorite candidates. we are going to dig into that when the 11th hour continues. ontinues
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greater likelihood the house lips than the senate. senate races are just different. they are statewide. candidate quality has a lot to do with the outcome. >> candidate quality. that is a new one. a sign of trouble for republicans, as minority leader mitch mcconnell casts doubt on his party's ability to flip the senate. mcconnell blaming candidate
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quality, which is his code for donald trump's favorite candidates. and candidate quality is part of the reason the cook political report says the senate is now a toss-up, with the same three months to go until the midterms. of course, things can change any minute, any day. but a toss-up is certainly a new chapter. with with us tonight is juanita tolliver, a veteran political strategist to progressive candidates and causes and tim miller, a contributor to the bulwark and former communications director to george bush. he wrote the book, why we did it. tim, you know mitch mcconnell better than anyone in this conversation. so, i'll start with you. how big of a problem is candidate quality for republicans? they pick their own people. >> it is a huge problem. and this is the beaten down mitch mcconnell in that interview, let's be honest. mitch was riding high from about 2014 through 2018. because he felt at the peak of his powers. and being at the peak of his powers meant he could help
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influence and pick who would come out of republican primaries. and he would choose the candidates that he felt where we're the strongest and could win. this was not always the case, back in the 2010 cycle -- people might remember the witch candidate, christine o'donnell, and sharron angle, and others who cost republicans seat. well, mcconnell put a stop to that. but he has lost control of his party. donald trump, despite the fact that he's not elected anything out with cougars at mar-a-lago, he controls the party, you can controls the candidates. and a lot of the candidates that he's chosen are pretty weak, let's be honest. and mitch mcconnell knows that, and this is a guy that is frustrated, he is beaten down. and he realizes that they are going to lead seats on the board -- we mentioned herschel walker and mehmet oz, to particularly weak candidates. people don't talk about much as much, arizona, and new hampshire -- i handpicked -- sununu and ducy, popular center-right governors. both of them took a pass on the race because they did not want to deal with donald trump. instead, there's going to be insane pro-insurrection
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candidates that run instead. those are two additional seats the republicans are probably going to leave on the table that they might have one with better candidates. that's what we have to establish for mitch mcconnell tonight. >> all right, you said a whole lot there -- >> but what's wrong with cougars? >> i love cougars! i'm just saying, if you're hanging out with them by the pool, why are you picking senate candidates. you would think that the senate -- leader would have more influence than someone hang out at a club in south beach. >> you're flailing on that answer. [laughs] >> juanita, you are advising democrats, right? if you are looking at a race and there is a far-right super crazy -- if you are the democratic party, what do you? dive to the middle and hungry hungry hippo style pick up every swing voter and undecided and centrist? >> i think it's a delicate balance, stephanie. because you have to call out
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the extremism, absolutely call out the extreme hateful gender that the republicans have been pushing because they mobilize the voters. any republicans who are pro-abortion bans and anti-lgbtq individuals, that is go to stop and mobilize voters. and in addition to that energy we saw that play out in kansas earlier, with the ballad initiative on abortion. and that is absolutely something that democrats should keep calling out. democrats also need to shout every one of their accomplishments from the rooftop every single between now and november 8th. and they need to do it in a way that emphasizes that they achieved these legislative wins on their own, while republicans were voting against capping insulin at $35, voting against making corporations paid fair share, voting against climate mitigation measures when we are experiencing historic floods and storms and fires. and make sure they draw a contrast with these extreme candidates. because whatever cats have done right now, as of late, is they have delivered on key components of president biden's 2020 agenda that he ran on that his wildly popular. and so they have a massive
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opportunity here to get the attention of voters and what i appreciate it is that it looks like progressive organizations are already lining up to do that. and in a coordinated way. $10 million dedicated to advise to talk about the inflation reduction act. $50 million to planned -- and bands coming from the. right and that is a critical pathway for democrats to occupy, then absolutely play the hungry hungry hippo roll, and pick up some independent voters who are all supportive of these provisions. >> juanita, this week's wyoming race focuses on -- or it reminds us of a really big problem with the senate. the state of wyoming has less than 600,000 residents. california has almost 40 million. both states get to two senators. how do you approach this imbalance? you're not going to change the rules overnight. >> you're not gonna change the rules overnight, but democrats
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could change the rules a little bit if they pick up a few more senate seats. eliminating the filibuster will be a first major step for democrats, to even start to consider different provisions that could start to address this imbalance whether that's considering the votes on d. c. statehood, considering opportunities for puerto rico to be considered four statehood and have senators ad added it and modifying the body that way, because i absolutely, right stephanie, the imbalance is critical. and i think the imbalances only going to continue to worsen as you have republicans continuously winning these homogenous, smaller population states. we are seeing that in wyoming. we are seeing that across the country. and i see it every time it comes to ahead, the republicans obstruct highly popular legislation, again, whether it's related to abortion bans or voting rights or anything that requires ten republican votes -- they put a stop to, it because they have that imbalance of power and it is a massive problem. >> tim, donald trump has a huge amount of power. did he miss an opportunity here?
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were there not better or more qualified candidates for him to back? herschel walker and mehmet oz were the best they could do? are there a lot of people who want to be senators? >> firstly, juanita is much more on message that me tonight, just hitting all the points over there. [inaudible] of course there were better candidates! they were not perfect candidates. in any situation, in order to be a good republican in good standing in 2020, you need to believe the fantasies and conspiracies about the 2020 election, and you need to be an extremist on abortion. that is going to limit candidate quality no matter what. but yes, obviously, dave mccormack is not a perfect candidate. he has his own flaws. we have talked about him. he certainly would have been a better candidate than mehmet oz. in georgia, you have a popular sitting governor, where at camp -- raffensperger, in a normal time, someone like brad raffensperger who showed courage in 2020 standing up to, trump might
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have. good have been promoted, ran for the senate. -- but donald trump is a man baby and he just wants people who are gonna suck up to him. and so those are the candidates that he picked and those have cost republicans in quality across the board. >> let's be clear, david mccormack, very clearly sucked up to trump, but it still didn't work. -- juanita tolliver and tim miller, thank you for joining us. -- we michael beschloss he's here to discuss an already eventful week we, when the 11th hour continues. continues.
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>> as we mentioned i cover all covered all day long here, ex trump organization cfo allen weisselberg has pleaded guilty to tax fraud. this is only one of several stunning developments involving the former president this week. back with us tonight to discuss, celebrated author and presidential historian, michael beschloss. his latest, work in a bookshelf full of brilliant works, is presidents of war. michael, welcome. >> thank, you love -- stephanie. >> so much to put in perspective but i want to go with just one. how significant is it that someone this close to the former president is pleading guilty to tax fraud a month before the former guys family business has their moment in court? >> it does not look great. and from everything i've understood, and what i
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understand from watching you earlier in the hour, allen weisselberg could be the key to donald trump's conceivably losing occasion going to jail. so here you've got this odd situation of weisselberg now going to rikers island with the potential promise that he will testify at the end of his imprisonment against the trump organization and, i hate to say this, on workers island, there have been half a dozen killed on rikers island just this year. i hope he's guarded very carefully. >> michael, the news gods now believe in summer vacation. >> mom [inaudible] >> last night, we talked about how history can be made in august. so much has happened in the last two weeks. what stands out to you most? >> our democracy, side to, say is wobbling. the beginning of a rule of law, just one example of. that one in history have we ever seen a house republican leader like kevin mccarthy
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making a threat to attorney general merrick garland's as if he is somehow a done for new chi in the godfather, saying, i would advise, you if republicans take over the house in november, as we might have said, preserve your documents and clear your calendar. that really is more from the godfather than from political movies that are little more mainstream. this is not normal. this is not what you see in a functioning democracy. we also saw on tuesday night more election 2020 deniers, people who have elected to stay in office for federal office are going to be on the side of, if they don't like the person who got the most votes in 2024 or even 2022, they will, say take the person i like and put that person in office anyway. corruptly. and the other thing is, public safety is something we all should expect in a democracy. look at the number of candidates and their allies in
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this midterm campaign who are advocating violence, beginning with donald trump, who is suggesting, at least in a subtle way -- as subtle as it can be -- that if he were to be acted against by the justice department, if he were to be indicted, there were reports that he said, this could make this country blow up in flames. isan ex president making another threat like this -- all i am saying, stephanie, is that for our younger viewers, these things are ones we have not seen before in american history. >> before the mar-a-lago search, you and several other historians met with president biden to warn him of what you just told me, that democracy is teetering. since then, we've seen people threatening fbi, go after an fbi office, go after a children's hospital. >> absolutely. >> is there anything you wish that you wish you had told him then -- things have gotten worse in the
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last few weeks? >> -- i would say basically the same thing, though sadly, i -- we have new incidents, just as you are saying, new examples of our democracy being in jeopardy. but when in history have we seen, you know, if you don't like one thing the fbi does -- the fbi searched mar-a-lago with illegal warrant. now donald trump and his mini knees, who are running for office all over the united states say, the fbi must therefore be corrupt, let's discuss the fbi. that is so opposite to conservatism, i can't tell you. it is very important for this country to have a rule of law. if we lose that, if we lose our free and fair elections, we will have lost our democracy and that could conceivably happen in the next few months. >> michael beschloss thank you, and a reminder for our audience, yes, that fbi search on mar-a-lago was legal. and before that -- search, donald trump defied a
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subpoena and ignored requests after request from the national archives, begging the question, why not give the government back their stuff? they certainly have. it >> [inaudible] i agree. thank, you stephanie. >> you make a starter smarter every time. >> we -- will be back with more in just a few. the 11th hour is not over yet. ver yet.
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report in our nbc family. henry engel, the six-year-old son of our colleague richard engel. has passed away. he was diagnosed with a horrible syndrome. richard and his courageous wife mary have spent years promoting awareness to this condition. lester holt has more on their story. >> he has faced tragedy and conflict across the world. but the news that richard engel faced while on foreign assignment in 2014 was like nothing he had ever faced. >> i got back in this convoy shaking. it was the worst day of my life. richard and his wife mary forrest, learning their then two-year-old son had an extremely rare and incurable genetic condition. >> i called you and said, we have a result. and i said, it is not good. it is not just delay.
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it means lifelong permanent, untreatable physical and intellectual impairment. >> as he physically grew, henry was unable to walk, speak, or efficiently feed himself. a tough journey was ahead. richard and mary chose to share it publicly. >> we wanted to share it publicly. >> it's the worst days. >> the worst ever felt as a caregiver. physically, mentally, worrying, the anxiety about what is going to happen to him, depression, what does the future look like? >> and they shared the best days. >> ♪ ♪ ♪ >> like the celebration when richard first heard those two unforgettable words. >> henry looked at me and he called me dada for the first-time, just a few days ago. and it was something i had been waiting for four years. >> physical therapy helped -- briefly sitting up unsupported,
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a major milestone. richard and mary dedicated themselves to creating awareness of rett syndrome, researchers even learning things through henry, studying his cells to one day help others. but in may -- richard tweeted henry had taken a turn for the worse, but was home, getting love from brother theo. today, richard and mary tweeting the crushing news, that henry had passed away. he had the softest blue eyes, at easy smile, and a contagious giggle. we always surrounded him with love and he returned it, and so much more. richard and mary's beloved henry with six years old. >> our heavy hearts are with the engel family tonight. if you would like to learn more and support the rett syndrome research foundation, donations are being made in henry's name to texas children's hospital.
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and from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, we are thinking of the engel family and thank you for staying up late with us. i will see you again tomorrow. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> tonight on all in -- >> if they do indict him, that doesn't render him ineligible to run. or even be president. >> he can, listen, eugene debs ran for president from a federal prison. >> as the mar-a-lago -- hearing convenes in florida, trump's chief financial officer pleads guilty new york. >> allen will ultimately be providing testimony. that is against donald. >> tonight, the rank criminalities running the 45th president and what we learned about the search warrant for trump's home. plus, new reporting the secret service held on to violent threats to nancy pelosi until after the insurrection.


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