tv Alex Wagner Tonight MSNBC December 23, 2022 7:00pm-9:00pm PST
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>> good evening and thanks t at-home for joining us in th special edition of alex wagner tonight. we are coming up on the tw year anniversary of the januar 6th attack, and i think all of us at this point have memories of that day seared into ou minds, where we were what we were doing even after all these times past i mean, almost all of us hav those memories as it turns out, a few peopl have no memory of that day a all, apparently. here is an excerpt of deposition of one of president donald trump's persona secretaries, who worked just outside the oval office, testifying to the january 6t committee, from their fina report quote, i don't remember where was that afternoon do you remember being at the white house that afternoon even if you don't remember where exactly you were at th white house? no, i do not do you remember being home wherever home is for you, on
the afternoon of january six as opposed to being at the white house? no, i don't. so, you don't remember whether you are at home or at the whit house in the afternoon o january 6th, 2021. again, that day was very blurry. that is a footnote from th newly released final report of the january 6th committee. it comes in a section about th number of trump allies and employees who were less than forthcoming with the committee some of them refused to supply comply with subpoenas. some of them invoked executive privilege. others claimed not to remember nearly anything from one of th most memorable days in recen american history given how many of th committees interviews or jus like that, people taking the fifth, people not will recall-ing stuff, people being unable to remember whether the were at the white house or i their own homes on january 6th that report the committee ha managed to put together is truly remarkable, for its dept and its breath, and the amount
of new information the committee was able to announce during this investigation. and just tonight, just literally, a few minutes ago the committee released a new batch of witness transcripts we will be pouring over thos in the course of the next 12 minutes, to see what more we could learn, and report back t you as soon as we do this final report is divided u into eight chapters, more or less, reflecting the publi hearings the committee hel last summer. a chapter on trump's propagation of the big lie about the election, one on the pressure campaign on vic president pence. one on the attempted corruptio of the justice department. there is also a set of 1 recommendations adopted by the committee. one recommendation is to updat the law that governs how presidential electoral votes are counted. basically, to try and prevent repeat of some of trump scheme to overturn this election. and as of today, reform of tha very law is on its way t president biden's desk, afte the house approved it this afternoon. real change is happening here.
the committee also reasserts and that there should be legal accountability for some of the actions described in the report, which was clear when the committee make crimina referrals on four separate charges, recommending that the justice department prosecute former president trump if there is one thing that comes through clearly in thi report, and that reflects th way the january 6t investigationhas quite obviously changed the way a lo of us understand the events of that day, it is that there was nothing spontaneous about th attack on the capitol that day millions of dollars were spent to transport trump supporter to washington, d.c. that day the fake electors scheme b which vice president mike penc would ostensibly be able t hand the election to donal trump, that was meticulously planned, with illegal an logistical coordination, involving dozens of people across multiple states president trump was deeply involved in that effort, personally calling the chair o the republican nationa
committee to enlist the rnc' help in that scheme. in the day leading up to january 6th, trump repeatedl discussed his plan for his supporters to march on the capitol, and for him to join them he even suggested that 10,00 national guard troops should escort him and his supporter to the capitol in an appendix to the report the committee suggests that on reason for the delay in sendin in the national guard troops that day was that military leaders were deeply worrie about trump using those guar members for his own ends, give that it repeatedly suggested that troops should be deployed to help him and his supporters there is also this detail of the report, detailing ho members of the right-win paramilitary group the proud boys, staged an early attack o an entrance to the capitol which cleared the way for th mob from trump's rally t overrun the entrance given all of this apparent coordination and extensive planning, this report raises the question once again, there
be legal criminal ramification for more people involved i this plot? members of the proud boys ar on trial right now for seditious conspiracy members of another far-right paramilitary, the oath keepers have already been convicted of that charge. a special grand jury in fulton county, in georgia, is expecte to issue its final repor within weeks, and which poin the district attorney ther will decide whether to see indictments of anyone, up to and including donald trump, fo interfering with the 202 election in the state of georgia. but what about all the other states in which trump and hi allies attempted to pull off the very same scheme the same scheme they tried i georgia. well, and the other d eight or attorneys general in those states, are they going t pursue investigations? and of course the bigges question of them all, will the united states department o justice act on the crimina referrals from the january 6th committee, and prosecute the 45th president of the united states, donald trump
joining us now is my colleague and host of the beat, ar melber, who in addition to his copious and important hostin duties, has also written a forward on the coup conspiracy for the harvard collin generous sixth report. we're also happy to have wit us the great barbara quaid former u.s. attorney our, barb, thanks for joinin me, and all of us on this nigh when we see how the committe wraps it up with the bow ari, i think it is indicativ of the way in which this investigation has captured the public's imagination the fact that you are coauthor, a named author on copy of the report that's bein put out by her pro collins for public consumption let's do a little before, you, know how it started, how it' going on the january 6th committee, which is, you know, how did this work teache expected shoveled was possible >> it's a quick question because that's how we're all
learning, and also, thank yo for working tonight, because we've been trading shifts, special coverage and thanks to barbara fo working because we're all here on a holiday evening going int the weekend, where irregular people are certainly may b consumed with that, doin holiday things with us in th background i don't know how it works. but it's important stuff and we've been covering it i want to write in the break o the coup conspiracy, and mak it a part of this, because i d think the reckoning, which i what hopefully journalism of the first draft of history can be about, will matter. and we will see ultimately so, that is what i set out t do, try to use the reporting that we've done here from ou own msnbc journalist, two lega experts, to what we have learned alongside the committee, and write that out and one of the points i made and that piece which as yo mentioned is one of th additions, is that it's much broader than a single day. there's a different plots. and alex, if you go look at th authorizing resolution, how it started, it basically says figure out what happened tha day, prevent it for next time. so, even the democrati
congress that began with a critical lens had a narrower scope. now, through their investigation, and you follo the facts, as we're told they've uncovered all of that, and waiting through the report today, i've read it now once with my team i think they have added to the details. we've got it there on th screen many of those different plot that are laid out. i think they're doing a very effective job and showing swee in scope of that i don't know people were involved but number two, and i mentione this earlier and the coverage, and i wonder what you an barber thing point number two, the highes bar, who should be indicted. and they told us, this wee donald trump and coconspirators, with a full report now hav access to today have many othe names, newt gingrich, fo example, being put on blast in a way that i don't think has been fully explicate id, and that doesn't mean that they sa they have the goods to indic him. indeed, they stopped short o that, in fairness. they do stay he's along for th ride in the, and he was trying to help overthrow democracy. that's bad for someone who, yo
know, took an oath to uphold the constitution the third thing i'll say befor i toss it back to you, some of this may feel to news junkie or certain lawyers, don't we know all of this, what's next? but the public accounting think will really matter i know barbara mcquade and i are both huge wayne fans, and reached for one of his ver simple barr's. with understood gotta be explained, but they don' understand to let me explain and i do feel in all seriousness, even though i'm having fun with the quote, that's how a lot of us feel. it's like we know it was a insurrection we know trump knew he light. we know it he was cavalier about putting people in danger his own quote unquote people we know all that what's gonna be explained, but if you get to the higher legal bar of explaining it to the do a criminal process or jury, yes, it does need to be explained i think this report and a very real way advances that process >> barr, on the gonna ask for
gucci quote that is explaining what's happening in this report but i'm gonna ask you about point where trying to explor the end of that script, whic is, we know fani willis, the fulton county d.a. and she's launched her own investigation. she subpoenaed a lot of thes names that are in the coming's report i think even new ticking which may be one of the people she spent. why is there not - why is there not more stat level investigation into a least the fake electors aspect of the january 6th insurrectio and it seems like there is a real case to be made that frau was committed at the state level given what we know about the trump campaign and the trump white house outreach t state level elections official and of course the fake elector themselves >> right, i think it was seven states that had very similar types of experiences, where th electors were approached by th trump campaign and asked t sign their names to these, now calling the fake slates of electors they may have seen it as a provision ballot
but nonetheless, there was a scheme and every one of thes states very similar to that of georgia that's been prosecuted in georgia i don't know why not in michigan i know the attorne general did gather som information about that, an sent it to the justice department thought it would be better handled at a larger level at a conspiracy level then here it's not to say that she won't take a single case, a separate case, on her own at some point each day is going to b different in terms of how much evidence there is and what evidence is there. i think one of the things abou fani willis this case is tha it always made it seem stronge is the recording of donald trump himself. saying to brad raffensperger, need you to find 11,780 votes. we all even know the number, because that story has becom so prevalent so, i think it makes her cas probably among the strongest but it is quite possible, we will continue to see cases around the country and some of these states there's no reason not to >> barb, i want to follow up o that because in this final report
we are given additional detail about the way in which those i the trump white house who were overseeing the fake electors plot, appeared to have som consciousness of guilt referring to the georgia plot, the trump team and the fak electors also engaged in act of subterfuge to carry out their plans. for instance, a campaign staffer notified the georgia participants the fake electors by email, that he must ask for a complete discretion. he explained that their effort required complete secrecy. i mean, if that's not someon who knows what they are doin is wrong, then i don't kno what it is >> yeah, you know, the defense that i've heard so far about this is, that it was simply provisional ballot you know, the same way you might go and if poll workers say there's some problem wit your ballot, you are in th wrong place, or whatever it is you are typically permitted to file a provisional ballot an vote it. and then, if it turns out yo are right, they count it and if you are wrong, they don't. and so, either way, the fake electors say, well, this was just the provision of ballots.
i was just signing my name here, just in case it turns out th other way. if that's the case, then why d you need to be so secret why do you need to hide it in fact it's quite the opposite, isn't it if you think there's som irregularity in the count, you make that known. and you say, i'm gonna cast my provisional ballot i wanna make sure everybod knows it so that we can be o record that this slate o electors is being sent ove from georgia, or whatever stat it is. so, i think you are absolutely right to describe that a consciousness of guilt the only reason to conceal tha activity is if you think there's something wrong with it >> can i jump in on that, alex >> please, please. >> you make such a good point, alex you signed and a good way like a prosecutor, because you ar bearing down on it and here's the thing the report today has mor examples of that, the so-calle provisional defense that barbara mentions, good work fo someone who was deceived, right? it was tricky, who was misled. the trump campaign, saying only if the court change something, and they go along that's no different than if take, you know, a beat mon here and i hand it to you, alex, and i say would you please hol
this, and you say, okay. and i'll tell you, i don't tel you there's heroin inside. you know who gets in trouble for, that if the system works? i do, not to and in fairness to some of these trump fans, if they di not trespass the capitol o storm, it and they wer deceived in holding the cu they may not be the easies people to charge but there is now in this repor tonight overwhelming evidenc that eastman, giuliani, bori epstein is also on the hoo there, that they were actively misleading people exactly what barbara said, and so i do thin it's an open question why th doj, which is the ultimate backstop for everythin regarding what is submitted to congress and elected electoral fraud, hasn't acted on this. this, and i mention this and m coverage earlier today, alex, think this tees up, even i there is a week of holiday break, a tough, real, heated january for the special counse and merrick garland. can you see this stuff are you gonna act on it? and if not, why? >> well, and, ari, you jus
rattled up a list of names another person it should be on that list, right he's someone who's basically brought in for surgical strike we see the special electors. and his role is explicit whe you talk about election fraud. just for what would draft an distribute documents intende for use in the trump team' fake elector ceremonies that were then shared with ke contacts in arizona, georgia michigan, nevada, new mexico pennsylvania, and wisconsin. he also gave some of the group step-by-step logistica guidance, such as when and where they should convene, how many copies each person will need to sign, and to send thei fake votes to congress via register male, pretty simple it commented in some of thes eight emails i mean, when you explain i like that, it's amazing that this didn't work, but already, to your point, you know, i guess the most generou interpretation of this, if you have a white house official, s explicitly giving yo directions, it can possibly be illegal. and is that the argument the defense team would mak effectively for the electors themselves >> i think for some of the
electors, if they don't have a sufficient mental criminal intent that might help them. but again, it's what matters here again, the secrecy which i think you're right to hone i on, and i agree with you, alex you know, this is like fight club except it is cuckoo of and what's the first rule of coup club? i bet barbara and you both know you don't talk about club. >> you don't talk about coup club, because you know you hav the requisite incriminatin mental intent of a coup. very different than saying, think we actually want i'm so excited what you want to do, especiall in the trump world you tweet it out, and you go o your friendly media. they're keeping the secret eve within the right-wing circle and so i get that is incriminating to where i landed and then you have something that i think hasn' gotten as much attention which is in the documented it in the report, the endgame was not to win over a court i mean, they didn't have arguments to do that, not even a very conservative leanin appeals court level on the
supreme court. the endgame was to fake contested outcome, to use frau to claim day where dueling slate of electors, to use penc to sow chaos if you wouldn't us intimidation or violence to go along, and - and i say this seriously, alex and i try not to overstate because then, where's th credibility? this was closer to working and i think people realize today >> indeed. i totally agree with you already. and barbara, you know, one o the theories that has brough up repeatedly, if you believ the transcripts of the mos that are in this final repor is that a lot of people who ar reaching out to the trump whit house, effectively saying they pursue the independent state legislatures theory, that they kind of run with this deeply conservative fringe, you know, legal theory that steak that just later's didn't have t listen to state supreme courts and could basically do wha they want to city elections an sending electors to congress o to be certified in congress. what we know right now is th
supreme court's hearing that case and i think when i read i it set a shutter down my spine the idea that sort of lega fringe legal theory is now being contested in the highest court in the land. please, tell me don't thin that we are going down tha road >> i don't but it's always a risk you know, this is what judge j alluded to this danger, this idea of independent signatures later. this is the theme of the lette that jeffrey clark drafted and that he wanted to go out under the signature of the actin attorney general, to georgia a a proof of concept it was drafted and it said, based o irregularities, we found the justice department that we think you are -- for the purpose of considering whether to elect your own stat slate of electors, and throw out the ones that were chose by the people, that is a really chilling idea in a democracy and you know, jeffrey clar didn't come up with this on hi
own. he had a lot of people working for him, and ken klukowski was sent over by john eastman. john eastman was of course the author of this plan, and so, they were working through th justice department to sort o legitimize what is, i think, and illegitimate theory. but, you know, if this theor were to be pursued, it would mean that you and i would vote in our home states, and, the if the legislature didn't like the outcome, they could find irregularities, throughout our votes, and substitute thei own. so, in these states, where thi was proposed, these four swing states that one for joe biden, where there were republica majorities in the stat legislators. suggesting that they threw out the votes of voters, and replace it with her own slate, effectively, stealing th election for their favorit candidate. >> deep breaths. stay calm, everyone. barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney ari melber, host of the beat i gotta say, are a, on thi appointed that you have no
made an actual coup wrap reference. but believe that - >> you mean like the coup from california >> yes shout out to the cool. i feel it's upon on their name which is different from that but a coup, not only great artists, but they have a rea radical bent, as you know. >> as i do it's time for radicalism, guess. thank you both for being her this evening on this holiday show as always, it's great to see you both ♪ ♪ ♪ >> we have much more to come here tonight as we built int the general sixth report and w do the new transcripts tha were just released in the last few minutes, because it neve ends up next -- no aborting on ho the general sixth investigatio did its work behind the scenes new york times reporter robert draper had exclusive access to the committee for months this is a riveting repor he'll. join us live, next with this stay with us ♪ ♪ ♪ peaceful state. full plate.
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>> just moments before we go on the air tonight, the januar 6th committee released another massive batch of transcripts from its investigation those transcripts includ interviews with people lik white house counsel, pat cipollone, and forme transportation secretary, wife of speaker minority leader elaine chao. the wife of mitch mcconnell, elaine chao. we are sifting through those transcripts now, and we will bring you any news as we fin it but today, the new york time magazine published this behind the scenes exposé, by rober draper and luke broadwater it details how the january 6th
committee was able to pull off an historic investigation, and how the paneled nine members - we're able to present thei findings to the public in a wa that captured the magnitude of their discoveries. let us go to robert draper right now before i lose my voice entirely robert, can you talk to me about the role kevin mccarth played and all of this, in terms of ultimately shaping th -- [inaudible >> i, mean the interesting question, alex, because i thin that unwittingly, government really gave an advantage to th committee by making that decision, after nancy pelosi pushed the veto button on tw of his five picks to be on the committee, jim jordan and ji banks. mccarthy responded somewha passionately by then pulling the other three. what this did, trump had n defenders on the committee and there was no kind of circus, you know, there was no externa
fighting amongst committee members. and it allowed them therefor to set their own narrative, to actually engage in a series of productions which the hearings very much were without any kind o interference and so, mccarthy did the committee a favor, which i'm quite certain, he did no intend to do >> i mean, i'm sure he did not intend to do that either the other person, the othe republican who shape the outcome of this committee wa liz cheney and you detail, exhaustive specifically, the ways in whic she kind of at every tur stairs this committee into different place, but beginning with, and this is not just someone in television, a par of it that has been wildly under reported beginning wit understanding the importance o the televised aspect to all of us, can you talk a little bi more about that? >> absolutely, yes cheney was really the firs person on the committee to recognize the necessary, not
just the virtue, but the necessity of having high production values brought to this committee, because in her view, cheney's view, failure simply was not an option wit this committee as a republican, she knew that members of our own party wer going for it she knew the tens of million of people wanted it to fail. there was a right-wing media ecosystem that would portray i as such. and so, they wanted to reach a many viewers as possible, an that was why cheney was a real proponent of the former ab news precedent and producer, james goldstein, coming over and actually doing the production of these. and she didn't always see ey to eye, and cheney didn' always see eye to eye with a lot of the other folks on th committee, too it certainly was her view that it was important to lay out case to do it and away, and way that was negativel dramatic, and thus, appealin to a larger audience >> and goldston walks in there and is, like was the control
room members of congress are like what control room? i mean, they are reall starting from, like, scratch when it comes to this actual production, project, if yo will can you describe the evolution of that, and how they basicall staffed it up? >> yeah. goldstein was brought in at th beginning of may, just one month before the committee was to begin its hearings. and this is a guy who is use to running and used to move couple of thousand people, and was told by the committee staff, no, we actually don't have any staff for you. but i don't think we will need it we are used to doing televised hearings before and goldstei recognized along with cheney how important it was to do thi in a way that would be sophisticated and would appeal to a wide viewership so, it, that initial meeting that he had with the staff and in on a very, very pessimistic note but chairman bennie thompson and vice chair liz cheney go went, his consternation, and
help see to it that he got the production stuff that he wanted, which is still very shoestring and still, with only one month despair, to spare, i do have t emphasize, alex, as seamless a these hearings appear to be, they were always a photo finish they always require 20 hou days stuff being written at the, very very last minute. all sorts of glitches that we, ourselves, the viewers did not see, but you know, there is real, don't try this at home quality to the entir production >> certainly i mean the other way in whic cheney was so instrumental was in recruiting some of the most explosive witnesses that wer brought before the committee and before the american public and i am thinking, first, on that list, cassidy hutchinson. it sounds like chene effectively brought cassidy to her office, brought hutchinson into like the inner sanctum, i you will, of the committee and locked her, if you will, to th witness seat, which is to sa the public witness, it's gonna
talk more about that relationship and how meaningfu was to have the daughter o dick cheney be the one t convince you that this was the right thing to do for american democracy to >> sir you have to remember, alex, fo so many of these witnesses overwhelmingly republican mean only a couple of them wer not republican the idea of testifying before a democratic predominately democratic committee sounded like a kis and death. sounded like you know, springing on a world of hurt for. them it was less cheney wh brought a level of conflict, hala familiarity, a common language, to the proceedings when it came to people, like arizona house speake westbury's but i think particularly, a lo of the women who, won't testify, you mentioned cassid hutchinson, when it comes to that hutchinson was still had one foot in trump world, eve though she and her boss, forme white house chief of staff mar
meadows and had a falling out. and she was certainly aware of what the likely repercussion would be, if she worked to cit everything that she knew and indeed, as this story make clear, what they've also recognized, taking a look at the cassidy hutchinson depositions that were recently released, this was a work in progress she had one attorney, a gu stephan passantino, who is fro trump world. she felt very, very at pains t be forthcoming to th committee. and it was really only over period of time as she develops both a increasing discomfort with her own legal team, and a increasing comfort with cheney that she switched lawyers an then, really began to tell i all. and that was in a particular deposition it immediately compelled chene to talk to chairman bennie thompson, and then turn to the other members and, say we have to have this young woman on in a stand-alone hearing righ away
>> and because of security concerns for cassidy hutchinson, they didn't tell other members what was happening until basically, the 11th hour with that right? >> this is exactly right they literally were told, th members were that, hey, we'r gonna have a special hearing we need you all in washingto in the next couple of days when you do arrive you are t report to the security compartment intelligence facility, the scif, secure roo where they could just discus classified information and it was only then literally three hours before the hearing was to begin, that they were told, the other members, worke cassidy hutchinson had all thi bombshell testimony, which the then gave excerpts to th committee. and the committee could then see for themselves that indeed what she had to say wa explosive. it still was not thoroughl agreed upon at that moment i time that hutchinson should bear th
burden of towing all thi explosive stuff withou cooperation but the dye wa pretty much cast and so th rest is history. >> robert, one more question for you. as we talk about list cheney and her outsized role in all o this, you know that sh maintained a captain a habit like focus on donald trump, as a singular threat to democracy but some of that focus mad other committee members nervous, because they were not sure whether her service to democracy began or ended, an where her own politica aspirations began. and i wonder if you have any insight into all of that, an how much of this is about, you know, capital d democracy, and how much of this is abou someone who believes the should be the next nominee, or at least challenge trump on th republican ticket? >> so. that question with an obvious, won both for other members tha were staffers. given the fact that liz cheney just a couple of months before she joined the committee, ha
refused to rule out th possibility that she might run for president in 2024. so, it did beg the question to a lot of people, what are he motives? and we, servicing our politica omissions, or is she surfacing us my own view, i think the facts really bear this out, what cheney did in service to the committee came in a very significant political cost, it is hard for me to imagine just what a political pathway would be for her given all that' transpired but yes, there was real concer at the time. i do think that, you know, i don't kinzinger is quoted in the story of - i've had some frustrations wit us jamie but i also think that the committee would have fel without her that she for mor than anyone else is responsibl for the committee success .. >> i love this reporting robert i love that bar, little detail about mask low soundly offerin people chocolates and then listening to what was going on
you know, the unspoken spangle behind us and our operation. it's riveting journalism it's gonna get the perfect time, as we're looking at the fina report from the committee. in new tranche of transcript that just came out and dum recklessness robert draper, thanks for your time thanks for reporting staff writer for the new yor times, great to see you. >> great seeing you. happy holiday. >> just a minute we -- are going live to capitol hill where our very own rhino thi has been reading through these transcripts, the spread ne ones that the january 6t committee just released in the last hour. he's gonna join us next to tel us what's in them. stay with us ♪ ♪ ♪ hello, world. or is it goodbye? you know, it seems like hope and trust are in short supply. [clap] now, as businesses we can blame and shame. or... [whistles] we can make a change. [clap] we can make work, work for our communities. create more equal opportunities. [clap] it's time for business to show its true worth.
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♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ >> we have breaking news because this is the season o breaking news. and that is that the january 6th committee has just, in the past few minutes, released transcripts from 46 witnesse and its investigation. the transcripts include very boldface names that you'll remember and recognize, like trump attorney general, bill barr, trump secretary of state mike pompeo, trump's transportation secretary, wife of mitch mcconnell, elaine chao, white house counsel pa cipollone, and the president own daughter, ivanka trump joining me now with more information is nbc's capitol hill correspondent, ryan nobles ryan, it is good to see.
you have the unenviabl position, being on the front lines and then use hurricane u there on capitol hill. i know there is hundreds o pages of transcripts that we just got can you tell me anything about the selection of these names the committee seems to be -- >> i have a ton of transcripts already, alex. i'll tell you everything about it >> amazing can you -- >> sorry to cut you off. >> no, no, and you are a speed readers. and that's why you are the capitol hill correspondent before we get to the substance of all of the transcripts, tal to me a little bit about how the committee, you know, how you are reading their selectio of which transcripts to release, and in what order? >> yeah, i don't think there's a real rhyme or reason to it other than they're trying to get them out as fast as they possibly can and that we've known from th beginning that there was a security protocol that the needed to go through befor they released them they are going through, an they are adapting the names of people that they're concerne maybe some level of a security
risk they are eliminating any kin of personal identifyin information that could lead to identity theft, something alon those lines. so, that's a process and it appears that once they've scrubbed the transcript, that with all that material, they feel comfortable with then they release it now, there did seem to be a bi of a theme with the firs tranche of transcripts the released, because that seems t be, everybody that just pled the fifth jeffrey question but that might have also bee because it was a lot easie because they didn't provid much information and then, of, course the release the cassidy hutchinson transcripts on their own she was of course perhaps th most important witness this tranche tonight is filled with, as you pointed out, some really significant and important names. the first one, right at the to of the list, pat cipollone, wh turned out to be one of th most crucial witnesses over th course of all of this. and someone that took quit some time for them to get in front of them. but you mentioned, william barr what i am most interested in and kind of the ones that i' going to, first, are the
transcripts of which we did no see that much of these individuals over the course of the hearings and that doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't provid important information. it just didn't make it into th kind of production that you ar talking about with rober draper before he came to me. so, for instance, hope hicks her transcript, that's the one i was actually reading befor he came to me. they've only shown a very tiny bit of her transcript, and i was just in this last business meeting that they held a coupl of days ago. so, we've never seen any o that transcript part that. so, that's one that's of interest you mentioned mike pompeo. we did not see much from mik pompeo during the hearings so, it will be interesting t go in there and see some o that and then, the only thing i wil say about kind of my interes level in these transcripts, an i'm sure others, is that there's a lot of information that was potentially glean fro these transcripts, that doesn' necessarily have something specifically to do with th mandate of this investigation. you know, what comes to mind is,
for instance, and this is been reported by the washington pos and others, and i have bee independently confirmed. the former white house aide, one of the top advisers to the former president, testify that the congressman matt gates asked for a pardon that wa related to this child se trafficking investigation that he was a part of now, that had nothing to d with the investigation principally. they were asking about i because they're asking about people that were looking for pardons related to the investigation, but that came out as a piece of information. so, that's not something tha you're gonna see in the report but it might be something that pops up in the transcript. so, that's the kind of stuff that i'm looking for, as the stress rips start to pour in there's a lot that there's - alex you know, ryan, you though tonight was a time for eggno mistletoe, but we know how we're spending our evening nbc's capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles,
thank you for making time. we will catch you soon up next, we have legal analysi of the legal transcripts, at the ones that the january si committee just released in the last hour. stay with us bye, bye cough. later chest congestion. hello 12 hours of relief. 12 hours!! not coughing? hashtag still not coughing?! mucinex dm gives you 12 hours of relief from chest congestion and any type of cough, day or night. mucinex dm. it's comeback season. ♪ my name is austin james. as a musician living with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. that's why i use the freestyle libre 2 system. with a painless, one-second scan, i know my glucose numbers without fingersticks. now, i'm managing my diabetes better, and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7. take the mystery out of managing your diabetes and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free at freestylelibre.us research shows people remember commercials now you know. with nostalgia. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance,
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either yours or other cabine members? answer, i don't recall now over the course of the day the president issued a numbe of statements. do you remember in realtim seeing the tweets you put forth, and you statements that he mad at the time that he made those statements >> and sir, i don't recall question, did you reach out to any counterparts and other countries that day to convey any information or reassur them as the attack on th capitol was unfolding? answer, i don't recall that was trump secretary o state mark pompeo, not recalling much but if you read the transcript for trump's daughter-in-law -- daughter, and advisor, ivank trump, you will find those sam three words over and ove again. i don't recall same goes for conspiracy theorist and election denyin kraken lawyer sydney powell. she doesn't seem to recall anything either. yesterday, we got th transcript from the committees interview with some of the sta witnesses, cassidy hutchinson. she detailed how her originall
trump funded attorne discouraged her from share with committee what you knew here is some moments from he testimony with the kind of legal that buys trump lawyer were giving at the time. mark meadows advisor ben williamson generally said to me, though, that mr. meadows along with pencil tierney said tha something to the effect of, don't recall is a completely acceptable answer to give th committee for questions. the committee doesn't know wha you can and can't recall joining us once again as forme u.s. attorney barb mcquade barb, thanks for coming back just don't leave me for th next year. when it comes to these transcripts, i am now traine because of that, cassidy hutchinson transcript to vie any answers like i don't recal with a healthy amount of skepticism, that said, the fac that mike pompeo, the secretar of state, can't remember any o the key events of january 6t including whether or not the secretary of state was reachin out to international partner seems pretty farfetched.
how do you read it >> i think it's simply not plausible. i would guess that if th justice department wants t question some of these sam witnesses but they would do is go back and read the transcripts and then reall push him on some of those area where he claims not to remember that's - one thing. but it really does see incredible i think it also seem incredible now that we kno that cassidy hutchinson ha testified that this was strategy to pretend you don' recall because the committee doesn't know what you do and d not really remember. i think he could use that to push a little and say we kno that maybe some witnesses bu to say you don't recall. tell us more about this an really probe each aspect o this question. so i don't think that i woul accept any of these answers as they stand with the justic department what you can do is grantha immunity and compel them t testify. >> barb, it's not just the i don't recall caucus that we go
a trench of transcripts for of it's also people who said some inconvenient things abou president trump. including lawyer pet cipollone and former attorney genera bill barr. of the ones that are jus released, which transcripts ar most interested in >> i think those two that yo mentioned are incredibly important. pat cipollone i think i wa just coming through it and h does answer questions he doe provide information and he was there in the inner circle so i think he's someone who i incredibly important the other one that i am chri about who haven't looked at get can fulfill ski, to me is fascinating figure it isn't even show up to the justice department for his job until december 2020 -- a few -- said to. and he is working for jeffre clark, and he drops this lette as proof of concept from georgia. he seems like the glue between the two separate threads of th scheme so i'm here's what he had to say. >> we know what our holida reading list is.
barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney, thanks as always barb, we appreciate your tim tonight. when we come back, we have muc more on the january 6th report all 800 plus pages of it and the new transcripts that are just out tonight one thing we are learning more about in all of this is th role of the secret service and a law enforcement on that day, we will get to all of this whe we return. stay with us feels like a dream. a place of many wonders... and full of life. i open my eyes: earth is our pandora. ♪ ♪ hey guys, detect this: living with hiv, i learned that i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines.
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edition of alex wagner tonight we're happy to have you here with us, we just got a new batch of transcripts from th january six investigation an boy oh boy, do we have som important names in these batch we're still going through them but our friend kyle cheney out politicos ahead of the crowd and he's reporting tonight after ivanka trump's transcrip
that republican susan collin called trump's daughter, ami the violence on january six, t urge to her father get mor engaged in helping quell the violence, to put an end to it. ivanka trump spoke to senato collins afterwards and - murkowski of alaska. the three had a discussion about trump putting out statement supporting the peaceful transfer of power , again, we are still goin through these we will let yo know when we know more but these are important fact that are coming out after th january 6th investigation. last night route least its muc anticipated final report a whopping 845 page document outlining the many way president trump and his allies conspired to overturn th results of the 2020 election trump wanted to overturn the results despite knowing within days of the election that he had lost that's in the report quote, in the days after the election, the presidents own campaign team told him he ha lost and there was no evidence of significant fraud
trump didn't listen and instea he executed on a plan. he and his team we're going to deny that he lost and instea say the election was stolen. former white house aide cassid hutchinson told the committe that at the helm of that effor was her boss, former chief o staff mark meadows, who wa under constant pressure from trump to figure something out. this is what she testified mark was just kind of trying t tell trump, well sir, we hav other options. we're still looking at other things don't worry, we are going to figure this out. this here, how to steal th election and the president said something to the effect of, don't want people to know we lost, mark this is embarrassing figure it out. we need to figure it out i don't want people to kno that we lost even after the election wa certified on january 6th, trum still didn't want people t know that he had lost. the committee has video of the former president saying that much on january 7th as he wa
rehearsing a speech condemning the previous days attack on th capital. >> i do want to say th election was - i want to say congress has certified the results withou saying the elections over, okay? >> this is the big lie at play one that included outlandish theories about fake ballots an dead voters. and each and every one of thos instances, trump and his tea knew there was nothing to thes ideas. nothing but fraud. here is an example of that fro a conversation between mar meadows and then white house lawyer mark hirsch when -- well before the storming of th capital. quote, herschmann, just an fyi former trump campaign lawyer alex cannon and his team verified that the ten k plus supposed that people voting in georgia is not accurate. meadows, i didn't hear tha claim. it's not accurate. i think i found 22 if remember correctly two of them died just days before the general election. herschmann, it was a legit i
rudy giuliani's hearing today, your number is much closer t what we can prove. i think it's 12 >> meadows, my son found 12 obituaries and six other possibles depending on the accuracy herschmann that sounds mor like it. maybe he can help fruity fin the other 10,000 meadows, lol when the claims of dead voters didn't pan out, trump elevated conspiracy theories about th voting machines. that idea came from lawyer sydney powell who falsel claimed that the company's software was created i venezuela at the direction o hugo chavez to make sure the socialist leader never lost an election when powell told trump about this conspiracy theory ove phone call trump laughed literally. while she was speaking, th president muted hi speakerphone and laughed a powell telling the others in the room, this does sound crazy, doesn't it a few days later, the trum campaign issued a statemen claiming powell was not part o the trump campaign's legal team. but the lie, the lights self
that survived according to the committee, trump tweeted and re-tweeted more than 30 fals comes about the machines and he did the same with every other crazy theory that wa thrown at him with devastating consequences the january 6th report concludes that all of thes lies motivated trump supporter to attack the u.s. capitol and if there's someone to blam in all of this, that man i quite clearly former president donald j trump joining me again as nbc' capitol hill correspondent rya nobles ryan, it's good to see you thank you for being here tonight, my friend can you -- we have a lot going on here as we talk about the transcript and the final report, can yo tell us whether what - the relationship is as i stands now between the material, the evidence that the committe has gathered over the last several months, and the doj. whether the doj's basically -- whether everyone's paralle
work output, where there is th biggest names that have had th most bombshell testimonies hav gone to the doj. do you have evidence that th rolling this interaction a this point >> well i think there's no doubt that where the relationship between the committee and the department o justice now is different tha over the summer. benny thompson in a length interview with our colleague simone said that they basicall created an open door polic with the department of justice they have access to whatever they like at this point. and there's turn to release al these transcripts to all of us not just the department of justice. so we're gonna have access t them it came after a letter that wa sent by the new special counse jack smith to the committe asking for that evidence and thompson now, since th investigation -- their investigation is wrapped up, willingly handing that over it was definitely over the summer weather department of justice wanted this informatio and benny thompson was reluctant to give it to them because the work product was
not yet complete now, in terms of how many of these department of justic will - how many of these witnesse that appeared before the committee appeared before th department of justice, there i still way more people that i'v talked to the committee than have talked to the departmen of justice there's -- who talk to at this point, but that's starting to pick up another thing thompson said is they had so many mor conversations and they twist extent created a roadmap for the department of justice to follow it may not be the same exact place as the committee did, bu there's no doubt that the work that the committee is alread putting in is going to make th job of the justice departmen that much easier as they try to figure out if a crime was committed here and whether or not it' prosecutable >> ryan, just to be clear here the committee gave the doj a lot of these transcripts earlier in the month o december, is that right? or on the 23rd of december a
we all are >> benny thompson discarde owes we're gonna give it to him. it's the entire tranche of transcripts and we shoul probably point out is not just transcripts if the beauty of the depositions, it's also the emails, text messages, documents everything else that they collected that is all theoreticall something that the departmen of justice may have access to. it's not as though the department of justice has al of that information yet. the way thompson described i at the beginning of the mont was a case by case basis, ca we have? this yes, here's how you get it but eventually you would hav to think by the end of the month with that informatio will all be handed over to not just the department of justice but they'll promise that we'll get to see it. >> nbc's capitol hil correspondent ryan nobles, ryan, thanks for hanging in late tonight. >> to further breakdown but al of this means for trump legall speaking let's turn to forme u.s. attorney of the eastern
district of -- joyce vance, joyce, it's goo to see you i know that you are diligently doing your homework that i just assigned at the top of th last hour which is this tranch of transcripts featuring som of the most prominent name from trump world the persons of interest that we've been discussing includin bill barr, pat cipollone ivanka trump, some new names and their, have you had chance to review anything at this point of what can you tel us about what you have >> i'll tell you, alex, where started is with can pick how ski. he's a player many people ma not be familiar with his nam but he's a lawyer who went t the justice department wit under a month left in the trum administration that's pretty unusual. he had touched him self to the staff of jeffrey clark jeffrey clark of course is the head of the environment an natural resources division who ultimately became this wannabe attorney general willing t perpetuate the big lie for trump if he could have the job
and what's never really made sense about the whole stor with jeffrey clark and his ris to prominence is that he is no an election lawyer, he had n prior experience in that field but he had crafted will, i'm not gonna say the confines o the law but still technicall very systemic the crafted plan that the states could use to upset elections and return victory for trump. how that came out of jeffrey clark's mind was difficult t understand until you saw can cook house key went off to the staff. click klaus kyiv's eeriest i that area rhoda lengthy, media treatise in -- in this area that began to click. the question about is what doe he have to say will he talk about what this whole relationship played into perpetuation of the big lie. >> joyce, help me understand something because in some of these transcripts, we gained a understanding that john eastma
himself at points admitted his strategy regarding pants and even fake electors was not really going to hold up in the court of law and several times in meant, yes, trump's heard about this and once he gets something stuck i his head is hard to convince them otherwise i'm paraphrasing but that's the essence of it there's a consciousness of guilt, if you will how then do you convince these younger lawyers to come in and effectively proves form surgical strike at the end o the summer, after the election has been called for joe biden, to do something that even th mastermind behind it wil reluctantly but still admit is not within the bounds of the law? did they imagine it would ge disbarred or worse, do you think? >> so it's hard to know what was going on in the mind of th crock and lawyers, but certainly they have to hav known that they were flirtin with danger. trump becomes very disenchante with the good lawyers on his campaign staff, and othe
campaign people. but it is very insisting tha the big lie is just that, a bi lie. so trump at some point disassociate some self wit those people and brings on rud giuliani's team of lawyers, an we - younger than giuliani but no young lawyers, people like sydney powell and mitchell who have been partners i significant law firms and know what they're doing that to say, alex, they ar whereas potential weaknesses and certainly the legalities i some of these places there is a point cited in th report where mike me is talkin buckley to mitchell, one of th lawyers. senator mike lee from utah conservative republican senator, and he has the opinion thi could be the end of th republic this could be the end of democracy if we use the scheme your point i think is well taken. it was readily apparent that this was not legal >> i'm also struck by this mar
meadows testimony by way o cassidy hutchinson and as mark meadows quote by way of cassid hutchinson's testimony where effectively, meadows is like nefariously paneling upstrea to find a way to turn th election for trump after the fact well sir, we have other options, we're still looking at other things, don't worry, we will figure this out. the amount of pressure tha mark meadows felt he was under to do the most anti-democratic thing one could do, so first o free and fair election, at the whim of donald trump, it bring to mind the sort o intimidation you see in a crim syndicate. what is there to that by way o trump's role and trump's inten and all of this as evidenc from the behaviors of hi underlings >> the way that they operate i very much reminiscent of organized crime sort o
activity where everyone's lord loyal to the leader, everyone' subservient to the leader. and while you can't prov trump's intent by looking at what meadows is doing, meadows is certainly able to shed ligh on trump's intent. one of the challenges the do faces and they have solved it, is that people who spoke directly with trump or peopl who overheard direct conversations with trump, fo the most part hit behind executive privilege and said they couldn't talk about wha trump said or how people responded to him there is some suggestion tha that has now broken into justice departments gran juries and people like the former white house counsel suppleness, script is included in this batch that has jus dropped is willing to testif with were previously willing t discuss. >> we know from robert drapery 's reporting was that cipollon was almost ready to do publi
testimony at the encouragement of this cheney, but pulled out at the last minute cassidy hutchinson was one t pave the, way and -- whether they're ready to tel everyone or tell the peopl that matter, shall i say, what happened inside the trump whit house in a row january six former u.s. attorney from th northern district of alabama joyce vance, thank you for you time tonight >> thanks, alex. >> up next tonight, we have ne insight from the committee report into one of the biggest outstanding questions abou that day why didn't the secret servic do more to alert other law enforcement about what the knew could very well happen at the capitol after trump speech former fbi counterintelligence agent peter strzok joins u next plus, we will talk with one of the members of congress wh voted to release donald trump' we taxes congresswoman judy chu will be with us. that's just ahead we let's be honest. the rent-a-car industry is the definition of boring.
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chambers another referring to president trump's december 19th will b wild post wrote that trump can't exactly openly tell yo to revolt, so the december 19t poses the closest will get another just to the president' tweet to be urging his supporters to come t washington armed others were to this in effect, there's not enough cups in d.c to stop what's coming. make sure they know who to fear and waiting for trump to say the word another ten perceived by the secret service on december 2 mentions the proud boy detailing plans of having large enough group to marc into d.c. armed and will outnumber the police so they can't be stopped it's just their plan is to literally kill people. please, please take this tip seriously and investigat further. the secret service was warne not only about trump supporter plans to come to the capital but also about the threat of deadly violence. but if those concerns wherever conveyed by the head of trum security details and white house deputy chief of staf
tony ornato and mark meadows we do not know when the committee asked ornato, he simply could not remember committee staff, do yo remember speaking to chief o staff meadows about any of you concerns about the threats going intojanuary 6th? i don't recall in my position, i would've mad sure that he was tracking th demos where he received a dail brief, presidential briefing he was most likely getting all of this in his daily brief a well he would know what was in hi intelligence trip that day but it would've made sure that h was tracking these things an mentioned, hey, are yo tracking the demos if he gave me a yeah, i don' recall it today, but i'm sur that was something that took place. it's very hard to parse exactl what tony ornato is saying there. the committee also notes tha despite the testimony from cassidy hutchinson another witness that tony ornato tel them about trump's ornat behavior - ornato said he could not recal
the part of that conversatio and had no knowledge of th presidents anger these instances that the committee to issue this pretty damning assessment the committee found multiple parts of tornadoes testimony questionable and when you add to that the details from cassidy hutchinson's testimony about mark meadows meeting up with tony ornato and a white hous holiday event, the head of trump secret service detail on january 6th, bobby engle, abou him attending a private afte party in the chief of staff' office, which he get there is picture of an agency tha appeared really cozy with th former administration. even neglecting would seem t be one of its most basic duties joining us now to discuss this is peter strzok, former fb counter intelligence agent mister struck, thank you for being here tonight my - army over reading the intimacy here the going to the after parties the being invited to the inner sanctum of the trump white house paired with this sort of
recalcitrance or memory loss o convenient amnesia over detail that would in fact be pretty damning for the trump whit house? are we over reading that or is that a fair assessment to thos two? i don't think we're overeating at all, i think at the end o the day when you have a senior law enforcement official lik ornato in the secret service i is a leads the agency to becom a political point in the white house. it raises questions of the independence of him and hi former agency, the secre service. and then for him to return t the secret service after serving in that politica position again as a senior law enforcement officer, i think i raises appropriate questions about what he was doing an what extent he had any rol with regard to the protected mission of the secret service. when you combine that with the committee's concerns about whether or not he was bein forthright in his testimon when you combine that with these huge bulk of missing tex messages that were wiped fro the devices, right on januar
6th. it does give rise to a lot o questions of what was going on and i'm afraid to say that looking through appendix one which talks about th government preparedness an response, there still is a bunch of unanswered question that i do not think th committee was able to get to the bottom of. >> it seems impossible t believe that tony ornato would not remember whether he briefe mark meadows on the security threats that were very clear a that point as a security -- as someone whose job is to mak sure that the event goes off a planned, the basic 1 to 3 is make sure there is not a violent insurrection did you find that to be in anyway credible that he coul not recall whether he had ha these conversations? >> - no, frankly, when you compar that with cast the hutchinson' testimony, where she is giving extraordinary compelling stories of the fight in th limo where he is trying to g
up to the capital and th details of back to the white house. there is no way, giving th gravity of that, day i something like that occurred and i fully agree with the committee that finding tha cassidy hutchinson was in an enormously compelling, and appears to be very truthfu individual in her testimony is very credible. i find it hard to believe that anybody who heard that story anybody who heard that recount it would not remember very specific details about that. so, i have questions about that one of the most chilling things, again out of her testimony, wa trump's concern that the crowd was not going to be big enough when he was told by his detail look, there aren't people wh have weapons and they do not want to go through the magnetometer's because they do not want those weapons confiscated by the secre service. the law on d.c.'s very, very clear. having concealed weapons i absolutely illegal, if you hav a license in one state i carries over trump said, according to hutchinson, they are not her to hurt me let them in. so, of course the question is, one, if trump was aware of it.
if the secret service was awar of, it why did they not convey that concern and, to trump was clearl certain that they were not there to hurt him. the obvious question is who ar they there to hurt and if they have weapons, what was done to convey that warnin to others? >> well, i think we know prett clearly, based on the news o the capitol grounds and matt hang mike pence, one of th people that they wanted to hur was the vice president of th united states. in some ways, at the explici urging of the presiden himself. talk to me a little bit abou the order of operations if trump's detail knew that there was an insurrection on the horizon, that president trum was himself going to march t the capitol to urge on tha insurrection, what degree, wha is the responsibility to, wh is clearly not in the loop o all of this. very much in the dark. at one point told the vice president that he had to get him off the premises because they could not protect him i the current situation? >> that is right
if you recall as well, some of the testimony that the vic president was not comfortabl getting into the vehicle and some people testified, saying know you and i trust you but i do not know who else is unde detailed driving the car look at alex, it is importan to frame this in a broader context. we are talking about this with conservatives, but at the role of the secret service is t protect the president, vic president. you have to go back and look more broadly at the la enforcement responsibility tha were brought to bear on januar six. this is not just the secre service, we are seeing the prosecution plot unplanned tha went on for weeks and months leading up to january 6th, so think it's a fair question t ask. not only to the secret service but the fbi, the department of homeland security, all of thes complex conspiracies, which ar at trial now some of which have been kept found guilty in the case of th oath keepers where were the federal law - in terms of getting a hold o this information priorto
january six, because there is lot of indication that, again, in the weeks and months. there were these plots at play that were being developed ther are a lot of, but in my readin there are not a lot of satisfactory answers about why there is not a bette understanding of what wa coming >> peter, -- former fbi counterintelligence agent. thank you for your time. >> thank you >> up next, the other big blow to donald trump this week. the vote to release his taxe to the public. the taxes still are not out, but the night is neon. and, we already know some of the questionable things that the report we learned that trump was no audited for much of this time, unlike, say, other president named joe biden and barack obama. one of the few people who have actually seen trump's taxes, congresswoman judy chu, will
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or completed >> that was california congresswoman judy chu, she an rest of the house ways and means committee wrote th blockbuster news that despit former president trump being the first president sinc richard nixon to not publicl release his tax returns, despite the fact that the ir had audited president obama an president biden every year the were in office, despite th fact that president trump's ta returns were filled with red flags, somehow, despite all of that, the irs did not perfor the and utterly annual presidential audits that has been required performed sinc the year 1977. somehow, the irs did not loo at trump's taxes until democrats, like judy chu, at the house ways and means committee started asking question joining us now is the woma herself, californi congresswoman, judy chu, membe of the house ways and mean committee. congressman, thank you so much for being with us. i just want to start with ho
this happened. we know that the irs i underfunded, but is that a red herring? was there something more political at play, perhaps >> it was truly shocking actually, to all of the member of the ways and means committe that this had not taken place. we did not know, until w finally got the clearance to look at these tax returns, and that was in november it was not until november that we discovered, audits were not being done and one reason fo this is the underfunding of th irs. this is been going on for decade now and in fact the tax enforcement auditors hav declined by 30%, which means that the audit of th millionaires have declined b 70%. so, we need to change that
because, of course, it jus encourages millionaires to b tax cheats, unless there i this enforcement going on. certainly, it is shocking with this president who has interes in hundreds of businesses. nonetheless, every president needs to have its audit in place in order to gain confidence of the american people >> congresswoman cares to know what the irs's response -- started pressing them on the - oops, we forgot, or this i what you get when you don' find us. was there an excuse for all of this >> they haven't actually mad an official comment to but the previous commissioner said tha they had been under resource and certainly this is why in the production act, we provide $50 million to the irs to unde these high income millionaires
but also to provide better service to every american who' been on hold on a whole line for hours trying to get an answer from the irs. but we want to have better service for the american public but i also have to wonder wh this particular case had fel little resource to it. and in fact have to say that trump's packs audits only on of which was started in this time period, they've onl assigned one auditor only one auditor or tax return that had at least 401 ta returns that were related to i and in which there are man questions that - which showed what many red
flags in trump's practices tha needed to be followed up o such as not eve when - actually were. >> i think that's what i termed willful neglect or more cold locally slow walking thos -- that audit if your 71% to such a comple tax return, watch as someone who has seen these tax returns i know we have an initia report from the house and mean committee, but what's concerns you the most and what should w be looking for when thos returns are released and fel to the american public >> actually, it's the chair of our committee that seen the ta returns themselves what we've seen two report that went into great detai about what happened. but yes, we had to look into these red flags and trump' taxes. first of, all he claims mehmet business losses and that is wh in two of his [inaudible
he only had to pay $750 in taxes. and one of those years, he sai he hadn't $30 million earnings and $60 million in losses. while that raises a lot of questions. and then we have to see whethe he improperly spent money or claims on personal activit when he claimed that they were business expenses such as in his aviation he claimed massive busines expenses for that, but where they really for his personal kinds of activities. and then there are loans to hi kids, he claimed many thousand of dollars and hundreds of thousands of dollars actuall an interest payments on thos that he gave to his kids but where they actually gifts an if so he didn't pay the gift
tax on those so there are many questions here >> we they're married question and write what we know about donald trump conducts' business, i know a lot o people out there will probably try fielding a few answers t these questions. california congresswoman jud chu, member of the house way and means committee, it's good to have you on the show, thank for time tonight >> thank you >> if you are like me and feel like this week has been 15 day long, you are not alone. but there is one important thing that happened during thi news tornado that you may have missed and it is a bit o history that is made i democratic politics. the woman who made that histor will join us live, coming up next
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happened on january 6th, it is important to consider to wha degree the events of that da or a reaction, or a response t a changing and increasingl diversifying america the fact of the matter is that a lot of progress has been mad in recent years when it come to a more representative democracy in this country. this past election cycle, we focused a lot on the bonkers truth denying slate of candidates who are up at that, ballot but the midterms also produced some incredible firsts.
mary peltola had back-to-bac wins, and, she became the firs ally skin native elected t congress democratic senator who, wa appointed by avenues in 2021 when she was - she became the first latin elected to represent californi in the senate. down in the house, in oregon republican - and democrat andrea salina will be the first latino members of congress from their state and pennsylvania democrats, they will be th first black woman to represent her state in congress. -- we'll be the first democrat to represent illinois and -- will not only be the first wreck present colorado i congress, but you will be th first states congresswoman o color, period. democrat westmore was electe first black governor of that
state, becoming only the third black person ever electe governor in american history in addition to becoming th first female governor of massachusetts this, more ideally will be the firs openly lesbian governors, alon with oregon's democratic governor elect tina kotek. in two months, virginia' fourth congressional distric is poised at one more name t the list of historic fourth. jennifer mcclelland, won the democratic nomination to succeed late congressman - congressman mike kitchen die at the age of 61 after a lon battle with cancer just week after winning reelection mcclellan, for her part, wil face republican, is expected t stay in democratic hands 30 points last month with mclelland expected to win the seat, she will become th first black woman to represent virginia in congress, and as she put it this week, quot
bring a new perspective on a delegation that has never had black woman sitting at the table. joining us now for her first nationally televised interview is jennifer mcclelland, th democratic democrat -- state senator mcclelland, than you for joining us thi evening. and i do not want to say congratulations, but congratulations on the first leg, and we'll be watching closely the next leg of all of this when i give that laundry, list the historic first from th midterm elections, i wonder ho it feels to be, potentially, i a group of people who ar really pushing the ball forwar in terms of inclusivity in a more representative democracy. >> well, it feels incredible first of, all in 2022 they are still having firsts is incredible, but to know that i could be the first black woman from the same district tha sent the first black man t congress over 130 years ago,
just particularly warms my heart. i wonder if you look at this i the same way that i, do i do not think that the offense, i' quoting myself, but january 6t and january six were not a linked -- a black man a jewish man t represent the state to the senate, the next day there was a violent attack on th capitol. now i do not think that ther is a result of the warnock - and elections. but it seems that there are th seismic forces in american politics that will give island about that change, and another that is relentless pushing for that change, for an americ that looks different than it has in the last 200 years. do you see the landscape i that way do you see that being th existential fight of the country right now in terms o politics >> i do, and it's not the firs time as a matter-of-fact, wha happened on january six, i was so excited about raphael
warnock and john also gettin elected that i went to look at my father's bible, we ar looking at the anniversary o his passing, and he was on m mind in that bible i found a copy o the poll text receive, that he had to pay when he first registered to vote in tennesse in the 40s i thought to myself, this is poetic justice i wish she was here to see it. in the next day, we saw th violent backlash but, just as john mercer langston and those black man who are elected to congress, i the 18 70s, they're also face violent backlash voter suppression, and lies an propaganda, and it is a cycl that repeats itself. but, it is a cycle, that finally, i think is going to b broken as we move forward. >> to that and, you're opponen is an election denier. he is a trump backer, leon
benjamin your predecessor, congressma -- refused to debate him. i wonder if you are going to take the same position and wha is the best way to push back o fraudulent claims, misinformation, and lies tha actively undermine moxie >> well, first of all, he stil has not conceded that he los the election in 2022, and take the same position until he concedes that he lost those elections, i take no point in debating him becaus he is already shown that he is going to lie and not discuss the terms. i'm going to talk to the voter of the fourth district directl and tell them about my extensive record, representing them in the general assembly my extensive record in the community, in this distric which i was born in. it will be 50 years next week. and just talk directly to them i am pretty sure that my views and by believes, are more in
line with those of the voter of this district than his. >> you know, we are in thi moment where we so greatly debate who gets to tell th american story and your family is very much the american story, right? you're father having to pay poll tax, and now his daughter may be the first black woman elected to represent the state of virginia in the house o representatives. it is an extraordinary, as muc as we focus on the negatives it is an extraordinary thing it is overdue, but it is ver much overdue, mcclelland who i running for the candidate fo the fourth congressional district we will be watching very, very closely, good luck out there thank you for your tim tonight. >> thank you for having me okay, we have been pouring through the 40 plus witnes transcript released tonigh from the january six committee what we found in the testimony of chief mike pence aide, mike
short, regarding his meeting with the vice president secret service detail the day befor january six. that is next stay with. us is the planning effect. this is how it feels to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. and set aside more for things like healthcare, or whatever comes down the road. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity. my dad was a hard worker. he used to do side jobs installing windows, charging something like a hundred bucks a window when other guys were charging four to five-hundred bucks. he just didn't wanna do that. he was proud of the price he was charging. ♪♪ my dad instilled in me, always put the people before the money. be proud of offering a good product at a fair price. i think he'd be extremely proud of me, yeah.
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a meeting that he called befor the date of january six, wit the head of pence's secret service detail, tim gable, sworn him that president trump is likely to be mad and that that could have an effect on pence's safety quote, here's marc short i'd ask him to come to m office, which was my smaller office in the west wing. and i said to him that i would expect the president to expres his disagreements publicly and make sure that his team wa aware of that. question, and would that have potential impact on security o threats, the kinds of things that agent cables need to be aware? of short, i don't know but i think it was my job if i had a concern to make sure i was raised with him. and so, on january 5th, i ha informed him of at least a concern, to make sure that h was prepared for any potential activities that could -- that that could trigger. i can't sit here and tell yo in any way that i would've anticipated an attack on the capital, or could foresee that but it would be in the bes interest of the head of th vice president's detailed to b aware of the disagreements
between the two are going to become public. yes. yes. it's important that the secret service know that because th disagreements that might g public would have an impact on the security is not fair to say? short, my concern was for th vice president security, and i want to make sure that the hea of the vice president secret service was aware that likely, as these disagreements becam more public, that the presiden would lash out in some way it is gripping reading, and it is a reminder of the truly unprecedented nature of th events leading up to and including january six. that does it for us for now. happy holidays to all of you and now it is time for a special earlier edition of the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle >> tonight, brand-new januar 6th committee transcripts, jus in, as we analyze the full report, and where all of the investigations go from here.