tv The Reid Out MSNBC January 31, 2023 4:00pm-5:00pm PST
week. i want to tell you, you can tell us what you think of ms. joy and her sound, if you listen to the album, or what genres you want to see celebrated because we have jazz, blues, rock 'n' roll, pop, k-pop, r&b, hip-hop, which we touch on from time to time. tell me at @arimelber or hit me up at arimelber.com. i have seen you write in on the last couple days. that's where i catch up with you. tell us about the grammys. that does it for us tonight. love taking a moment to learn about a new artist. "the reidout" with joy reid is next. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> i knew it. i knew it. >> all of this. existence of a secret library was known in high places. but there's no way of getting at
it. only once before have i seen so many books in one place. >> like fahrenheit 451, life is imitating art, in florida, with desantis might as well be burning books because he sees them as more dangerous than guns which he wants people to be able to carry around without license or even training. >> also tonight, the investigation of donald trump's hush money payments to an adult film actress moves into a significant new phase. and on the eve of tyre nichols' funeral, we're going to expose the serious flaws in police training in america, which led to nichols' brutal killing by officers sworn to protect the public. >> we begin tonight in the not so free state of florida, where in the year 2023, it's probably easier to get a gun than it is to get a history book. right now, florida republicans led by governor ron desantis, are trying to push through a bill that would eliminate concealed weapons permits,
calling the right to bear arms, quote, central to our freedom. those same lawmakers have simultaneously cracked down on other freedoms, like children's freedom to read books. "washington post" is reporting today that school officials in at least two florida counties, manatee and duval, have directed teachers this month to remove or wrap up their own classroom libraries until the books are vetted for appropriateness under state law. teachers who display or give a student a book deemed unallowed could face up to five years in prison. you heard that right. five years in prison for handing a child a book. and in case you're wondering what falls under the umbrella of inappropriate for school children by florida standards, activist brandon wolf points out that one of the books rejected by duval county schools is the life of rosa parks. what desantis is doing is
intensional. in order to peel off trump's republican voters and get them on this side ahead of his presidential bid in 2024, he's turning florida into a right wing paradise where the focus isn't on health care or jobs or taxes or infrastructure or i don't know, hurricane or flood insurance in one of the most natural disaster prone states in the country. you know, normal governor stuff. but rather on the right wing culture wars and nothing but the right wing culture wars. and he's ticking all the boxes. not only is he banning books about history and any mention of the existence of gay people from florida schools, he's barring public high schools from teaching a.p. african american studies. he's taking aim at drag performances, even suggesting that he would urge the state's child protective services to investigate parents who take their own kids to one. he's actively trying to ban covid vaccine mandates and restricting mask rules while at the same time calling for probes into supposed wrongdoing linked
to the vaccine. and he's doing all of this while making sure that anyone can walk around with a gun, no permit required. it's a right wing fantasy land. like disney world but in hell. come to florida. the meanest place on earth. so much so that even former brazilian president jair bolsonaro, whose supporters tried to overthrow the government down there, literally just a couple weeks ago is trying to extend his stay in desantis' camp, requesting a six-month tourist visa which would make bolsonaro the former second president who fomented an insurrection currently residing in the state. joining me is brandon wolf, survivor of the pulse nightclub shooting and press secretary of equality florida. fernand amandi, and mark whittaker, cbs sunday morning contributor and author of the forthcoming book, saying it loud, 1966, the year black power challenged the civil rights movement, which is probably already illegal in florida.
and mark y do want to start with you, because you wrote a very interesting piece today. and i just want to read a little bit about it. you wrote, desantis is wrong about black studies. as i discovered writing a book about 1966, when the push for black studies began at san francisco state university, the original advocates of this idea had something very different in mind. at the time, their focus was on encouraging black people themselves to understand and celebrate their role in the american story. and that's to feel a greater stake in american citizenry at a time of intense racial turmoil. if the a.p. curriculum seems more designed to tell that story than to rhee assure white students, that's no accident, but everyone can benefit from the wider understanding of our history that black studies have helped foster. as an author and historian and as a journalist, mark, what do you make of this intense battle to suppress history that's being
led by the florida governor? >> well, desantis is suggesting that somehow this curriculum and a lot of the other things he's going after with his so-called stop woke movement and crusade is anti-american. it's turning floridians and young people against each other. but what i point out is if you go back and actually look at the origin of black studies in the '60s, that actually, it's the opposite. it was a time of intense turmoil, racial violence and so forth, and there were folks like eldridge cleaver panthers out there trying to get blacks to pick up arms and there was a cultural wing of black power that said we're not interested in that, but what we do want is the right to have ourselves reflected in our history. and that's where it all started. and when you think about what the alternative was then, it was actually better than more armed violence. it was also an alternative to
black nationalism, of earlier eras. marcus garvey and so forth who were saying things were so bad for black people in america, that they had to go someplace else, they had to go to africa, to go to the caribbean. again, what the black power pioneers and the people who first pioneered black sundays were saying was no, no, we have a right to be here. we want to be here. but we want the right to, you know, have ourselves and our history reflected in the broader picture of american history, and of course, once that happened, women wanted it, other minorities wanted it. and it really changed the way we thought of our history, and that's the way it really deserves to be taught today. >> and you know, there are two theories, fernand, as to why desantis is doing this. theory one is he sees the lane for himself to get to the right of trump is to go after white
americans who have the most insecurity about cultural and racial change. and to say don't worry, i'm going to make florida as christian white nationalist as possible so to demonstrate to you i'm willing to hurt the, quote, right people. there's another theory, though. jamelle bouie writes the following. he reminds folks as a congressman, serving three terms from 2013 to 2018, desantis was one of the founders of the house freedom caucus. desantis, which is bedevilling kevin mccarthy today. desantis was an especially fierce opponent of entitlements. he helped lead the effort to shut down the government over the funding for the affordable care act and in the same year voted to pass a budget resolution to cut over a billion in medicare and social security and he voted to repeal the affordable care act and cut taxes on wealthy donors. you can go on and on. he's doing this because if he
wasn't doing culture war stuff and racial provocateurism, he would have to talk about what he's for, which is the same thing the outlandish republican crazy caucus is for. >> joy, i actually think both theories apply in this case. sure, there's some performative politics here playing towards the extreme maga republican base, as he intends running for president in 2024, but there's also a bedrock philosophy that ron desantis and the larger republican party are putting on display here in florida. and i think we need to understand it just not just from what it represents in these particular elementary school classrooms. this is a product in florida for the republican maga wing to take over all public education, all the way from k-12 and even into the state public university system. there's always been a tradition here in the state of florida, joy, that if you didn't necessarily want your children to be exposed to the critical
thinking and academy freedom and curriculum taught in the public schools, you could put them in private schools and pay for that. but what the republicans are saying now is, they want total control. they do want to ironically indoctrinate, and out of a fashionest playbook, it's almost a cliche. they're literally starting with the classroom and working their way all up to the university lecture hall as well. it is a total effort. they are conscientiously making these decisions. in fact, last week, ron desantis appointed an administrator in a private parochial school to be on the miami-dade public school board. so this is a very intentional act that the republicans are doing here, which they want to then export because they fundamentally distrust public education and they're trying to take over the system and florida is ground zero for that effort, joy. >> right, and brandon, it does
feel like this is an experiment that's taking place in florida. in whether or not this kind of -- you can only call it fascistic attempt to seize control of the culture, to say that we're not going to allow the natural evolution toward more openness, toward more understanding between communities. we're going to try to drag it back to the 1950s, whether women, lgbtq folks, black folks, brown folks like it or not. because on the other hand, they are creating more openness on the gun issue. they're saying you don't even have to get training. you don't even have to get a permit. so on guns, they're saying full permissiveness, but on education, they have teachers and students terrified they're going to go to jail for reading. >> yeah. you're absolutely right. it is about control. it's always been about control from the very beginning. it's been about government mandating conformity. what you're talking about gets to the root of why i was so incensed about this particular book that you mentioned earlier.
i brought it with me. i have a visual aid tonight. this book by kathleen connors, the life of rosa parks, was one of the dozens of books that duval county rejected from first grade classrooms. i had to know what was so egregious about it that they would make it easier to get a gun than it is to read this book in first grade in duval county. i ordered a copy and here's what i think. maybe the district objects to the reality that schools and buses were once segregated in this country and wants to hide that from young people. maybe they're offended by the acknowledgment rosa parks worked for the naacp, a black civil rights organization. maybe they hated the timeline of her arrest that led to a case that ultimately dismantled alabama's racist law. but i think it's very possible that the answer to why this book was deemed inappropriate for first grade in duval county lies right here on page 20, and it's the last sentence. i'll read it to you. it says rosa's story teaches us a very important lesson. that even small actions can have
a big impact. maybe that's the real rub. that suggesting to young people that they can make this world better is just a bridge too far in desantis' america. maybe the idea that this country has never really fulfilled its promise of equality for all people is a red line. perhaps the right wing in florida are just beyond intent on demanding that future generations accept their role in the status quo, that they're willing to make guns easier to access than this book for first graders because at the end of the day, as you said, the point is government control. it's desantis fueled censorship. government mandated conformity. that's why the story of rosa parks and her defiance is such a threat to them. >> to come back to right down the center of my list of fols here, fernand, you're my numbers guy. desantis has made a calculation there is enough of a base within the republican party that is so terrified of empathy that they
are willing to essentially ban it. to say that you can't read, there are books like a childhood book about dr. martin luther king jr. that are on some of these banned lists going around the country. they don't want any reading about civil rights history that essentially doesn't exonerate this country from any racism, even going back to slavery. we know those are also desantis' personal views. when he was a teacher, he tauch slavery essentially taking the south side and saying the south didn't do anything wrong, essentially, that's according to his former students. he must think there are enough people in the republican base that desperately want that in a presidential primary. are the numbers there to support that? >> i mean, sadly, yes. and how do we know that? because all we need to do is look at who the last republican nominee was. both in 2020 and 2016, that was donald trump, who did away with the racist dog whistles and replaced the dog whistle with a bull horn.
joy, i just want you and the audience to think for a second. imagine if a year or two ago we would have found out angela merkel said, we're going to stop teaching about the holocaust in germany. or we're going to outlaw anything that has to do with jewish studies or anything that has to do with the study or the culture of the jewish community. i think alarm bells would have gone off around the world saying what is happening there. well, that's what's happening in florida now. by in essence putting a target, in this case a metaphorical target on african american history or african american pioneers. i think brandon was very eloquent. the message of the history of those african americans that said hey, you can stand up when the government is acting inappropriately and bring about positive progress and change, even if it means changing the established order of things. that is what desantis is trying to sell. he is playing that game, not just to the base. he's sending a very dangerous,
very dangerous sentiment and signal all around the country in doing that. i'm worried that we're normalizing this behavior. >> and by the way, as we are out of time, but the explanation for how would you know if somebody is a criminal if they were able to obtain a firearm without any training or permit? the answer from the florida official is we'll find out if and when they commit a crime. it sounds like that is who is free in florida. somebody who wants to get a gun and hurt people with it. i guess the cruelty is the point. brandon wolf, fernand amandi, mark whittaker, thank you all very much. >> up next, donald trump is up to his eyebrows in legal hot water but his familiar deny and delay tactics are increasingly facing judicial pushback. "the reidout" continues after this. this can help your business get a payroll tax refund, even if you got ppp and it only takes eight minutes to qualify. i went on their website, uploaded everything, and i was blown away by what they could do.
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while donald trump is trying to get his so far anemic 2024 presidential campaign off the ground, he's facing multiple legal investigations at both the state and federal level. we're talking about a special counsel looking into the classified documents case and at trump's role on january 6th. the georgia probe of his efforts to steal the 2020 election. and the new york attorney general's probe into his alleged asset valuation fraud. and just today, we're getting our first look at trump's deposition from last summer in new york attorney general letitia james' civil fraud investigation. he pleaded the fifth more than
400 times. something if you remember he always claimed was only done by the mob or those who are guilty as sin. but now, he is singing a different tune. >> i once asked if you're innocent, why are you taking the fifth amendment? i was asking that question. now i know the answer to that question. when your family, your company, and all of the people in your orbit have become the targets of an unfounded politically motivated witch hunt supported by lawyers, prosecutors, and even the fake news media, you really have no choice. anyone in my position not taking the fifth amendment would be a fool, an absolute fool. >> also in new york, there's now also a major escalation in the longest running criminal investigation into trump. prosecutors have started presenting evidence to a grand jury about the $130,000 hush money payment made just ahead of
the 2016 presidential election to adult film star stormy daniels who claimed she slept with trump. ew. it was trump's lawyer and fixer at the time, michael cohen, who ultimately went to prison in 2018 for actually making the payment to stormy after testifying that it was all done at the direction of individual number one, donald trump, who just happened to reimburse him the exact amount paid, $130,000. and joining me is charles coleman jr., civil rights attorney, former prosecutor, and msnbc legal analyst. thank you for being here. let's go through this. i want to play for the audience michael cohen, this is michael cohen when he testified back in 2019 about whether or not -- well, let me pause on that for a second. let's go back to the hush money for a second. this is michael cohen yesterday, talking about the hush money payments that he made to stormy daniels and this was on msnbc yesterday. take a listen. >> this investigation -- this investigation that was to be brought by alvin bragg's office,
previously sivance jr. is the most detrimental to him, his livelihood, his business, et cetera, because it's the easier to prove. the checks are the checks. we know a lot. there's recordings which have been released. he's not in the same position where he can deny or lie the way that he will in some of the other matters. >> the checks are the checks. you can't get out of it. do you agree? >> well, joy, yes and no. i do think as far as a paper trail, michael cohen is correct in as much as establishing that donald trump repaid michael cohen $130,000 after cohen paid out whatever it is he paid out to stormy daniels, is relatively straightforward. i think the notion of michael cohen's testimony as a witness however is where the d.a. may have some problems. and that's why you hear about the new witness from the enquirer potentially being the
linchpin in someone put before the grand jury after having spoken to bragg's office with additional information. i think that's important to understand. michael cohen, as someone who has been to jail, as someone woo was fired from the trump organization, is going to be painted as a witness with credibility issues and an ax to grind. whatever it is trump's story is going to be about the $130,000 that he paid to michael cohen and its purpose is going to have to be validated somewhere other than michael cohen's testimony, so that's where the importance of the witness from the enquirer comes into play. yes, the paper trail is clear, but you still need credible witnesses to substantiate what it is in the paper trail. >> and just to be clear, the amount he reimbursed him was $130,000, the amount michael cohen paid to stormy daniels was also $130,000. if in fact, we know michael cohen went to prison because this was like a campaign finance violation. you're not supposed to pay money that's essentially a campaign contribution to suppress
information before an election. if he did that, and donald trump reimbursed him the exact same amount of money back, you're saying that the fact that he went to prison, that's what he went to prison for, was for doing that. how does that hurt his credibility? >> well, it hurts his credibility in general because the defense is going to attempt to paint michael cohen as someone who has an ax to grind, and they're going to say, you haven't sufficiently established that the $130,000 that donald trump gave you was for reimbursement of this purpose. and ultimately, it will be up to the jury to decide whether their buy that argument, whether they find that argument to make sense, given the exact same amount of the checks in question. so that's where michael cohen's testimony may be a little dicy for the jury. but, alvin bragg is trying to circumvent that by adding additional testimony by witnesses who may have information about the situation. >> let me really quickly play michael cohen testifying in 2019 about trump inflating his
assets. >> to your knowledge, did the president or his company ever inflate assets or revenues? >> yes. >> to your knowledge, did the president ever provide inflated assets to an insurance company? >> yes. >> and was that done with the president's knowledge or direction? >> everything was done with the knowledge and at the direction of mr. trump. >> do you think we need to review his financial statements and his tax returns in order to compare them? >> yes. >> so charles, this is the one case that prompted two new york prosecutors to resign from alvin bragg's office because he didn't bring a case on this. do you think that there now is a case, and what do you make of the facthis case appears to be back? >> i think it's interesting, joy. everything has not come out yet and that's partially because the grand jury is a secret proceeding and we may not know what the additional information is that has led him to this point. for me, up to now, alvin bragg
has shown himself to be a very methodical, very, very, very conservative d.a. in terms of how aggressively he wanted to go after donald trump, and which is why these prosecutors ultimately resigned. i do understand that because this is inevitably going to be a very politicized case, and one that alvin bragg cannot afford to lose. so at this point, the question becomes, what do you know now that you didn't know then that has prompted you to change your tune to move forward? that remains to be seen. it is possible that upon an indictment, if we do see one, we may learn additional information about the witnesses that have come forward and what information they provided. >> for those of us who are very cynical donald trump will ever be indicted for any of this, he seems to be a walking crime scene but one that doesn't seem to be someone that can ever pay for it. am i wrong in thinking that he seems to have somehow established some sort of teflon from the law? >> no, joy. i have said for a long time, he's been the proverbial
gingerbread man. before anyone who has been watching his legal woes, what i will note is if you're looking at how the judicial system is treating donald trump, there is a silver lining. whatever level of deference he's been afforded by the judiciary in terms of being able to delay things over and over and over again, has all but eroded and subsided. most of the judges in these cases are no longer allowing the same tactics to take place where he continues to kick things down the road, because they're not affording him the same liberty they did when he was a sitting president. so now, donald trump the civilian is having to deal with the legal system much more like regular people than he did when he was a sitting president. that's a silver lining that may lead to some justice. >> that's why he's running for president. now we understand why he is running again. charles coleman jr., thank you very much. much appreciated. >> comingp next, george santos temporarily steps aside from his house committees as he deals with multiple investigations and
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parking fees, amounts deemed almost impossible by parking officials. and calls for the serial fabulist to resign after admitting about lying about his education and embellishing his resume. today, he faces at least one consequence. he recused himself from two committee assignments temporarily after meeting with house speaker kevin mccarthy. >> i think it was appropriate decision that until he can clear everything up, that he's off the committees right now. >> is that something you asked in the meeting? >> we had a discussion. he asked if he could do that. i think it's an appropriate decision. >> the way he tries to do the fake dignity. elise stefanik defended her support and fund-raising for santos. >> i supported george santos as the nominee and the people of his district elected him. ultimately, voters decide. i'm proud in new york state, we flipped five districts to help deliver us the majority and ultimately voters make this decision about who they elect to
congress. >> yes, elise. although it would have been ideal with the voters had the full story before they make their decision. in a statement, santos said it's important that he primarily focus on serving his constituents without distraction. as for his constituents, while republicans like elise stefanik insist it's up to the voters, a news day sienna poll found 78% of voters in santos' district including 71% of republicans think he should resign, and 63% of those who said they voted for santos in november said they wouldn't have if they knew what they knew now. while 31% said they still would. and honestly, i would love to chat with that 31%. it would be fascinating to hear their thoughts. in the meantime, we'll have to wait to see how the science, space, and technology and small business committees will function without noted science and business expert george santos, who today once again insisted he's not going anywhere. he told reporters he does not
intend to resign and tried to explain himself in an interview with right wing network oan. >> i know a lot of people want to create this narrative that i faked my way to congress, which is absolutely categorically false. >> are you sorry? >> i have said i was sorry many times. i have behaved as if i'm sorry. i don't know what is asked of me right now, when you ask, oh, you are not shown remorse or you don't seem to look sorry. i don't know what looking sorry looks like to you, caitlin. >> i mean, he fakes his way through life. >> up next, the latest on the fallout from the release of video showing memphis police brutally beating a young man to death and how police training is a big part of the problem. stay with us. i'm not a doctor. i'm not even in a doctor's office. i'm standing on the street, talking to real people about their heart. how's your heart?
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police brutality is nothing new. and i already knew as long as i seen the photos of him in the hospital, i already knew they treated my brother like an animal. they beat on him like he was nothing. i don't have to watch the video to know that. >> that was tyre nichols' older brother. he went on to say he felt guilty that he wasn't there to protect his younger brother. and that's where we are in america. families carry more guilt than
the police officers who perpetrate the crime. as dupree said, police brutality is nothing new, but what we as society are going to do about it remains elusive. republicans want more officers, more training, and more money. >> we should be able to build a coalition around the common ground of yes, we need more training on de-escalation, more resources and training on the duty to intervene. yes, we need more grants, and yes, we need the best wearing the badge. >> there is nobody that dislikes a bad cop more than good cops. so let's focus there. but i think what we saw in this video is we need to take a hard look at training across this nation. and make it standardized so that departments whether you're in middle america, the east or west coast, we have the same basic training. >> not that simple. in fact, experts say simply increasing officer training will
not end police violence. my next guest agrees. katie spent 11 years in the air force and five years as a law enforcement ranger with the national park service where she attended her third police academy at the federal law enforcement training center in georgia. this weekend, she tweeted some of what she learned in that training. like how she was told to yell stop resisting and drop your weapon after firing a gun. because bystanders will remember that you said it, and their memory will automatically reverse the order of events. she also noted she was told de-escalation techniques will get me and other officers killed and as a smaller law enforcement officer, i was justified escalating my use of force faster than my colleagues because i was always in danger. so i should use it. she lost her job after questioning that training. and joining moo me now is katie, air force veteran, former national park ranger and advocate for criminal justice
reform. katie, i saw your thread and thought, i have to talk to this lady. the common answer when we see something happen like what happened to tyre nichols is we need more training. you seem to believe that is not true. why? >> i think that there's a huge cultural problem that's exposed, and the more that we go through this training, it doesn't make a difference if we don't address those underlying root and culture, and if we're going through de-escalation or crisis intervention training and turning around in defensive tactics or street survival or firearms training and saying that doesn't work, that's just required by law. we have to do that. it doesn't do any good. so we have to address those issues that are at the root cause of the cultural problem with law enforcement. >> the united states has more police violence against civilians than any similar country. we just outpace everyone else.
united states 1,096 americans were killed by police last year. in germany, it was 20. in canada, it was 89. we outpace everyone else. one of the differences including between us and the uk, our police are armed. and also, they seem to also be armed with information about how to get clear of a criminal offense. would i be correct in saying police know, as you kind of hinted in your tweets, that if they just keep saying stop resisting, they are not going to get in trouble? if they just keep yelling commands, essentially accusing the person they're beating up of committing a crime, they know they're going to get off, and if they say i thought they had a gun, i feared for my life, they're clear. >> i do think that actually part of the standardized training curriculum where we are, and we present it to law enforcement officers as we are teaching you
how to let the public know what is going on. what is happening. but it's very clear that every drill, every scenario that you train on, over and over again, you say the same things. if you don't vocalize, if you don't verbalize those same things, regardless of what's going on, then you are going back on your training, to be loud for the cameras, to make sure everyone knows what you're doing. and there is an underlying thread of it's really so that when this goes to court, when you go to a review board, they're going to be able to say, there are bystanders who witnessed this. it's always drop your weapon, regardless of what's in their hand. could be a cell phone, but you yell drop your weapon. so that kind of thing that is trained in drills is problematic. to say the least.
>> the other thing you hinted at is this warrior mentality of seeing the public as always threatening to kill you. and coming at the public at least certain people in the public, particularly black and brown folks, as if they're deadly, but police kill far more people than ever hurt them. the statistics are just extremely lopsided. so police killed 1,096 people and no one should be killed on either side of this, but 1,096 to 64. it's not as if police are constantly being killed. but the training makes it seem like every encounter is a deadly one in theory, right? >> yes, and i think that we also put -- we categorize our training. so we will put behavioral health training in one little category and we do that for six hours of a 400-hour training, and then we'll have use of force
training, and that will be a significantly larger portion, we act like they're two separate things. you never pull your weapon out in a behavioral health training course. and you never use de-escalation training in a use of force scenario. they're trained completely on separate tracks. i think that leads us to believe, okay, well, this is what i do. is that use of force thing. because my job, and that is one thing you will hear over and over again, and there are a number of police philosophers we take into play here. and use over and over again in the united states that are not used around the world, and my thread brought up grossman in particular and his street survival courses. but that actually tell us that, your job is to go home at night. your job is, and it's taken away this idea of duty to care and that our job is to protect the public. >> yeah, and therefore the
training is not the answer. more money is not the answer. complete reform is the answer. katie, thank you very much. really appreciate you being here. >> coming up next, the emotional toll of police killings spalsh as the result of a brutal beating caught on video. if your business kept on employees through the pandemic, getrefunds.com can see if it may qualify for a payroll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee, even if it received ppp, and all it takes is eight minutes to get started. then we'll work with you to fill out your forms and submit the application; that easy. and if your business doesn't get paid, we don't get paid. getrefunds.com has helped businesses like yours claim over $2 billion but it's only available for a limited time. go to getrefunds.com, powered by innovation refunds.
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tonight, nichols family will hold a -- at the hash dork maiden temple in memphis, will they will hold -- its a nod to another moment at the trauma for the black community at the king's murder, there are people walking around the streets almost in eight days, angry, scared and traumatized and more than 50 years later, we're now a point, if i am honest, a lot of americans, but black folk in particular are emotionally exhausted and in constant fear for our families. it's directly impacting children. cbs news covered a heartbreaking seminar at a memphis elementary school trying to help their students process the storm. the students were told to write about their dreams for a better memphis. >> it's sad we can't just cups. they're supposed to save us, not her. us one thing >> we need is more -- >> it's black children's mental
health that we should be particularly concerned about. psychiatrists point out that black youth have been in crisis for decades. black youth suicide rates are rising faster than any other racial ethnic group in america. black youth ages 13 and younger and pushes likely to die by suicide compared to their white peers, yet black youth are less likely to access and remain in the health care. dr. calhoun joins me now, a resident at the yale university department of psychiatry. thank you for being here, dr. calhoun. i know a lot of folks i know, probably most of them, have been particularly traumatized, some of them can't even watch the video of what happened to tyre nichols. but when it's a child, what can we say to black children? what should we say to them? what are they dealing with knowing about the death? >> well, joy, i think it starts with asking kids what they
heard to begin with. i think as parents, the parents i talked to, the parents of my patients, they often think they're shielding their children, doing their best but kids are having these conversations about what's going on in the world in our country at school, so the first thing is, currents and caretakers to reach out to their kids and say, what have you heard about tyre nichols? what's going on at school because you want to make sure that they are not hearing negative, racists, offensive information. i remember when george floyd was murdered, i had black colleagues in the hospital who had to leave work and go cry for a few minutes and then go back into work because colleagues were saying, racist things about it. you want to ask your kids, what are you hearing? what have you seen already on social media and then start the conversation there because they might already be thinking and feeling a lot of things about what is going on. they may know far more than
parents think they. now >> and adults to. there's a piece in the harvard gazette from 2021 saying how just police killings, the killing of unarmed african americans can trigger days apart muddled for black people in that state over the following three months, and it's a real problem. like i said, it's kids that are traumatized but also adults because we all know that any of us could be tyre nichols at any moment or george floyd or trayvon martin. >> yes, and i tell adults all the time, give yourself permission to grieve. give yourself permission to feel low mood or irritability or sadness. i tell people when you watch a movie or video, a horrific film of someone being beaten or even hearing conversations talking about what happened to that young man, you may experience symptoms that you don't even
realize are due to your stress. one of those things, you mention low mood and irritability, it could be physical symptoms, and i think sometimes, we forget the. i talked to multiple people and they said, dr. calhoun, i am having a headache today. could it be that you're stressed, and they said, maybe so. headache, stomach ache, all of these things are actually side effects of stress and of the trauma of doing -- doing something so violent and the added trauma, as you said, joy, knowing that it's a black american, it could happen to you, your family member, your friend, anytime, due to the color of your skin. >> you put yourself in a situation, can almost see yourself because -- easily, you could be breonna taylor, any other. what about the family? you see these families, and i feel like i could do it. there's so strong. does working through looking for justice solve some of the pain, temporarily, and how do these families cope after it's
quiet and they're not in the fight? >> so i think, probably, and i don't want to speak for families, this is somewhat of an adrenaline rush. they won't think of justice which i think is powerful and important and healing in their therapeutic but i do think you bring up a good point after the fight is over, check in with yourself, check in with the way that you're feeling and make sure you can continue to recover, to the end, physically, at the. that >> doctor amanda calhoun, we'll invite you back. you had a lot of folks tonight, thank you. appreciate you. that is tonight's read out. and with crises that's right. >> ighttonight on all in -- >> how many times have you heard we like trump policies, but we want something new. >> the right wing rooting against trump gross ladder, as legal hits keep coming. >> anyone in my position