tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC February 13, 2023 5:00pm-6:01pm PST
people in the state of mississippi. he essentially -- a mode of taking from the poor. and now, he's suing for his reputation back. it feels like everything is upside down in jackson, and in mississippi. >> it feels that way because that's the truth. and at a time where the state is littered with questions of integrity, where there is incompetence there, they charge communities like jackson, who have been devoid of resources, of being the ones that are incompetent. there has been a willful indifference, or a intentional neglect around the things that jackson needs. and this is part of a larger effort. >> and my guess, they're busy trying to pass laws, trying to outlaw history, because he wouldn't want people to learn how we got here. jackson, mississippi mayor chokwe antar lumumba, thank you very much. that is tonight's reidout. all in with chris hayes starts now. s hayes st♪ ♪ ♪ >>arts now.
tonight on all in -- >> we are asking that the report not be released because you haven't seen that report. decisions are made -- >> decision day in fulton county. >> so, what are we gonna do here, folks? i know we need 11,000 votes. fellas, i need 11,000 votes. >> tonight, the decision to unseal parts of the special grand jury report. the witnesses who are currently lying to the grand jury, and what it all means for prosecution, and for the disgraced ex president. then, incredible new reporting on how the trump family it's cashing in on all those favorites for the saudis. plus -- >> i don't think the american people need to worry about aliens. >> a surreal day of denials, as the chinese balloon saga continues. >> there is no -- we got no indication of aliens or extra terrestrial activity. >> and back on the ground, new alarms from residents and experts alike, after a trail
train derailment, and a massive chemical explosion in ohio. >> we basically fill the town with chemicals, so we can get the railroad open. >> all in starts right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good evening from washington, d.c.. i am mehdi hasan. it was the afternoon of saturday, january the 2nd, 2021, when georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger, the man in charge of the states election, a republican, took a phone call at his kitchen counter on the other end of the line was the then president of the united states, donald j trump, whose attempts to overturn the election he had just lost were becoming increasingly desperate and erratic. over the course of the hour-long phone call, trump had one demand for raffensperger. finally the votes i need to win by any means necessary. >> the ballots are corrupt, and you are going to find that they are, which is totally illegal. it is more illegal for you than it is for them because you know
what they did, and you're not reporting it. that's a criminal offense, and you can't let that happen. that's a big risk to you and and to ryan, your lawyer. that's a big risk. so, look, all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state. >> in his memoir, brad raffensperger, a republican, remember, did not hold back when describing the call. quote, i felt event, and still believe today that this was a threat. he's not alone. he's not alone on that. many observers, mics myself included, heard the recording of that call, and thought it sounded like criminal behavior. apparently, fulton county district attorney fani willis did as well. willis took office just one day after that call became public, and she has had a lot on her plate since then, including a
criminal case involving rap artist young thug, and of course her months long investigation into donald trump. specifically whether trump or his allies broke the law when they attempted to interfere in the 2020 election in georgia. and just today, we learned that we will finally get a peek into the inner workings of that investigation. when parts of the special grand jury report into those allegations are made public this thursday. now, there are so many investigations into donald trump. it can be hard to keep track. in addition to fulton county, as that ongoing investigation, the manhattan district attorney's office, one former top new york prosecutor who was part of it is out with a new book this month, where he compared the disgraced ex president to a mob boss, and accuse him of building his profile, quote, through a pattern of criminal activity. meanwhile, special counsel jack smith multiple federal investigations into trump, over both his handling of classified documents, and his attempted coup, appear to be accelerating, most recently with the revelation that smith has
subpoenaed former vice president mike pence. and a lawyer for trump now says the ex president is willing to surrender his dna as part of a defamation suit from writer e. jean carroll. she says trump raped her in the 1990s, something trump denies. all of which is to say, things are not going great for donald trump. and i know, i know. you've heard it all before. the walls are finally closing in on trump. i'd like to see him wriggle his way out of this jam. but despite all the overhyped smoking guns in the not too distant past, and all those missed opportunities from various prosecutors, this fulton county grand jury report could, could be the real deal. i mean, think about it. trump is on tape trying to threaten a georgia official into corruptly overturning the election in his favor. you just heard it for yourself. this is, this has been a thorough, sprawling investigation, which has secured testimony from dozens of witnesses, including georgia 's republican governor brian kemp, trump's sycophant and
south carolina senator lindsey graham, and even trump's own coup lawyer, rudy giuliani. the district attorney fani willis says a decision on possible charges based on that granary report is imminent. now, we likely will not know who, if anyone, will be charged this week. but we will learn a lot more than we currently know. fulton county judge robert mcburney has ordered the introduction and the conclusion from the report to be made public on thursday. that will likely provide our first look into the major top line findings of this investigation. da willis will also make public a section of the report describing concerns that some of those many witnesses may have lied to the grand jury. and that's just the tip of the iceberg, in terms of what is to come. tamar hallerman has been covering the fulton county probe into trump's election interference for the atlanta journal-constitution. and she joins me now. tamar, thanks so much for coming on the show. what more do we know about what's coming out in georgia on thursday? >> well, three portions of this
highly anticipated final report from the special grand jury will be released on thursday. that introduction, the conclusion, and as you mentioned, this section where grand jurors described what they believe is false testimony given to them under oath by some of these witnesses. now, we are not expecting that section to name names. that is why it's being the focus now. but perhaps, with this introduction, the conclusion, we will get a sense of just how much there has been incumbents in this investigation, and potentially hints on who may have been recommended for indictment. and that was something that became clear in this order today from the judge overseeing the case. he heavily hinted that there were recommendations for indictments from these grand jurors. >> so, the concerns that witnesses may have lied to the grand jury, even if they are not named, those are pretty interesting revelations. >> absolutely. and it increases the potential that the da could charge people, or seek charges of perjury,
which obviously can be a felony. it can be rolled into a larger racketeering case. so, obviously, not a small allegation being made by the grand jurors here. >> tamar, you are on the ground in atlanta. what is the mood like there? you have a fulton county district attorney possibly out to take down a former president of the united states, or if not the former president, certainly people who may be in his own circle. that's a pretty big deal. how much pressure is she under? >> a ton. this is a first term district attorney, and a veteran prosecutor who's worked in the prosecutors office for a 17 year term before she was elected in 2020. she's on the ballot next year for reelection. and obviously, she is looking at the former president of the united states, who will also be on primary ballots this time next year. no former president has ever been charged with a crime. so, obviously, the stakes here are immensely high. and i think, if she's were to
do anything, we want to make sure that she has her eyes dotted at her, and her t's crossed, obviously, a lot of pressure here, a lot of anticipation. folks have been waiting for her. you know, she said, decisions were imminent about a month ago. i actually had a chance to catch up with the da today at the state capital. i asked her, what does eminent mean? she said, this is legal imminent, not reporter imminent. so, who knows what that means. but maybe that means we won't see anything this week. >> yes, but we are gonna see those portions of the report we just mentioned. tamar hallerman, thank you so much for your reporting. >> thank you. >> harry lippman is the former deputy assistant attorney general in the justice department, and a former u.s. attorney for the western district of pennsylvania. he joins me now. harry, you and i have had many conversations about donald trump, about his possible criminal exposure. this week, we won't find out who may have lied to the grand jury, but how significant is it that the da's office thinks any of the witnesses, many of whom were part of his former circle, one of them is his former lawyer, how significant is that? >> i think we will find out
things, and in addition, mehdi, to the people you named upfront, there is also john eastman who testified, mike flynn who testified, and number two only to trump, mark meadows. now, it would be an awfully silly order if when the report, those three sections come out on thursday, the introduction says here -- is our report, and the conclusion says, there was a report. i think that there is, you know, there's likely to be something like, we recommend that indictment of 17 individuals, for example, for the reasons below. and the targets are that numerous. we also found out today, by the way, that the chair of the republican in georgia has said he's not going to try to run again. so, i think that is probably fall out for this, because she also has given target letters to many people, including state officials. so, we will get a glimmer on
thursday. and i think that speculation will be rife, and then, we come into this, tomorrow, we have a very good point about legal evidence, whatever that means. by the way, all the facts and the case are really well put out in tamar's podcast called breakdown, if anyone wants the real detailed deal. >> so, it's funny you mention all the facts of the case. for me, i'm not a lawyer, harry, but, you know, i heard the former president, or than president on the phone to the secretary of state in georgia saying find me 11, 000, or whatever it was, votes. if i had done that, or if random person of the street in atlanta had done that, we'd be in prison by now. wouldn't be, shortly? >> i don't know by now, but you would be seriously under charges. if you had any power to do it. i mean, you have to remember, that this row breeding by trump's from the president of the united states. but the short answer to your question is, that is, it seems to me like solicitation to commit election fraud, which is likely to be the main charge in any georgia indictment. but i just want to say, it is a
little tricky eight local da indicting a former president for the first time. so the first thing we'll see when an indictment issue and i believe it will is all kinds of pre motions and maneuvering maybe they'll bring the case into the federal court at the like. so, i think first of the starting date, i don't know she'll be forced to the finish line. >> it's a very good way to put it. just on that note, we know this special grand jury can charge anyone, but irregular grandeur weekend. we can assume, right, harry, that those deliberations are on the way? >> we can't assume that. i try to figure out, in fact, just today, there is some speculation she's gonna wait until a new one convenes in march because a speeding trial charge defense, if ever trump wants to make one goes from the end of the grand jury. so she might want that extra time. and it seems to me there's legal imminence, meant to buy her a lot of time. i think people will tear their hair out. they may be meeting now, but i think we'll probably know, it
may well be the whole thing that may be presented to the newest grand jury that will sit starting next month. >> and if you are rudy giuliani, are you sleeping peacefully this week we, as the day comes for the ex president? >> who knows, but he's gotten the target letter, and that means for the list out there, that she has decided, she is in her list, she intends to indict him. but since he took the fifth, i doubt it. i anticipate. and it's a really good general point. it is not just trump involved here. he did as much as suggested once, probably because it talked about people not being before the grand jury. 17 target people, sort of all the presidents, men and women, giuliani, really, really, goes out to georgia, tells all these people, i think he's in a good effort, and he's likely to be indicted. yes. >> last question for you, harry. you mentioned that fani willis might be the first, but this really the first across the line -- if you are donald trump, what would you be most concerned
about in terms of your potential criminal liability? would it be georgia? would it be manhattan? would be jack smith? would it be e. jean carroll case? rank them for us, in terms of what he should be mostly concerned about. >> well, in terms of likelihood, i think the a.g. case from new york is really big, but it doesn't involve prison. in terms of prison and criminal charges, i'd be most worried about jack smith, number one, and manhattan da, number two. >> thank you for that, harry litman, always appreciate talking to you on the subject. >> thank you. >> still ahead -- new details on the cozy relationship with a corrupt foreign regime that netted billions of dollars of business for the president and his family. can you guess who? that's next. 's next. 2a's monitoring his money with a simple text. like what you see abe? yes! 2b's covered with zero overdraft fees when he overdraws his account by fifty bucks or less. and 2c, well, she's not going to
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a therapeutic movement experience unlike any other. de-stress and feel your best with aerotrainer. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> stop me if you've heard this scandal before. the president of the united states and a close family member accused of making a ton of money off their dealings with a foreign country, peddling access to enrich themselves. it's an outrageous use of power, and i agree with members of congress who say, it must be investigated. but i'm not talking about hunter biden. i'm talking about jared kushner. there's no real evidence that has been provided about the presidents son, hunter biden, who has always been a private citizen. but there is a bunch of new evidence about jared kushner, who was a senior adviser, lest we forget, in the trump white house. this is the first day of his father in law's presidency, and kushner had both informal
communications and regular meetings with the shot saudi crown prince mohammed bin salman or mbs and, he pushed trump to try ties a relationship with the saudis, and even astonishingly, make saudi arabia has first foreign trip. according to kushner's own memoir, trump initially objected to the idea, quote, jared, read my lips, we're not going to saudi arabia. take no for an answer. but as kushner told it, quote, i didn't interpret his words as a hard no. eventually, trump relented on that close relationship, and ended up paying off big time for both of them. according to a new washington post expose a, quote, the day after leaving the white house, kushner created a company that he transformed months later into a private equity firm, with two billion dollars from a sovereign wealth fund, shared by saudi crown prince mohammed bin salman. and that's for his father in law, quote, a year after his presidency trump's golf courses began hosting tournaments for the saudi foreign-backed liv golf. separately, the former president company, the trump
organization, secured an agreement with the saudi realistic company that plans to build a trump hotel, as part of a four billion dollar gulf result in oman. nice work, if you can get it. akbar shahid ahmed as a senior foreign affairs reporter for huffpost. and former director of the government ethics, walter shaub, he's currently a senior ethics fellow at the government oversight -- they both join me now. thank, you guys for being here. let us start with you akbar. lay out for us what we know about how trump and kushner have benefited from saudi money since they left the white house? and just to be clear, it is jarred, right, who's been joining the family's financial relationship with mbs? >> absolutely, so, jared is extremely close to mbs, the saudi crown prince. what we found in this washington post exposé was this two billion dollars that carried kushner received months after leaving the white house, really, really quickly, still comprises most of the money in this fund that he's running,
right? so the saudis are still getting two thirds of the big fund, and he's also getting 20 million or so in annual management, and he will get a fair of any profit made from investments. we also see the ongoing counselor, the trump organization. this was the deal that president trump felt should be in florida, to come to new york to sign with. so, we'll see a lot of revenue come into the trump organization with -- and as the ongoing, the liv golf tournament, trump's golf courses across the red states, i mean the money -- >> and, akbar, just to be very clear, jared and mbs are pals, right? their friends. as of the report shows -- >> there's certainly a personal relationship here. these are two men who are very close, and they're not being restrained by any kind of structure or formal, systematic policy. and yes, we are close to the
point that jared kushner was in saudi arabia, literally before the january 6th insurrection. a number of details, a number of meetings that we still don't know very much about, and then i think it's so important to remember, you know, people might say, the u.s. has been close with the saudis for decades. it's strategic. there is a relationship -- sure, no one has ever behaved like this. i'm consistently calling the trump administration, other officials, and in fact republicans, as graham was saying, we don't to be disclosed to saudi. this is a different level. >> well, they have got a lot in common, from where i'm sitting, they are both novel babies, and they're both pretty incompetent when it comes to doing their jobs, or to be fair to jared, he's never ordered the assassination of anyone. >> walter, one quote that struck me in the washington post exposed it was from a former acting doctor from the governor of ethics who said, quote, i don't think it ever occurred to the draft of these ethics laws that a former president would actually try to
cash in on his years of office this way. lay out for us, walter, if there are any laws that would apply to trump and kushner's dealings right now with the saudis post presidency? >> yes, there are none. that's the bad news. and i think my old friend don fox is exactly right, that our lawmakers did not plan for this kind of thing to happen. now, this is all the fruits or the gift that keeps giving from when trump refused to divest his financial interests. that set us up right there for a series of entanglements that wasn't gonna stop when he left government. now, on the other hand, jared kushner was covered by a lot of laws when he was in government, including the conflict of interest law that prohibits you from working on certain things that could affect your own financial interests. the infuriating thing when you're dealing with the white house official like that, though, is we have no way of knowing what was discussed between him and mbs, or any of the other leaders or
representatives. so, it is entirely impossible to solve. but at the appearance's terrible. >> but walter, it's not even just ethics rules or laws of modern american history. i mean, the constitution doesn't cover anything like this. i feel like going back in the time machine, and kind of shaking madison, hamilton, and jefferson, there's gonna be guy called donald trump, have you got anything for him? even when he was in office, walter, i mean, there were people paying for hotel rooms down the street from the white house. we know they were doing it for access because this one as he left office, they stopped paying for those hotel rooms. >> that's right. yes, that's absolutely right. and he was covered by the emoluments close clause, that's a mouthful. and he did violate it. and unfortunately, former presidents are not covered by that. and i think we do need some kind of provision like that. you know, my project on government oversight or worked with the washington post to expose that a lot of military officers, high-level officers,
we're going to work for foreign powers. and have to get permission because they are still covered by the monuments clause. but the commander-in-chief is not. there is definitely something wrong here, when we had stricter rules and the former military officials. >> i mean, we live in a country right now where, as you say, the former president is not bound by some ethics rules. the supreme court on bound by ethics rules. some of the most import people in this country are just free to do what they want. republican congressman james comey, chairman of the house oversight committee, new chair, he was on abc yesterday, and he was asked if his committee would investigate kushner's business deal with the saudis. had a listen to what he said. >> the two billion dollar investment, and questioners funds from the saudis, we know the president, the former president trump's has also received funds were leaked to the saudi golf tour. senator ron wyden says these financial entanglements deserve investigation. will you be investigating that as well? >> i think everything is on the table. look, we are investigating joe biden. >> you gotta love that
republicans brazen deflection -ism. are you investigating eject kushner? well, we're investigating joe biden. let's look over here. don't look over there. do you have any faith, akbar, in this republican-controlled house that they would investigate a brazen, dodgy dealings of jared kushner in committee hearings. and if they don't, any senate democrats can do, while they still control the senate, to investigate this, i don't know what to call it, there's no words to describe how bad it is? >> i don't think they want to look for accountability but they certainly have a lot of overlap in the investigation. one that's ongoing, we know that's happening, it's the finance committee that is looking specifically at these financial transactions, by kushner, and by trump. and you can see if they can try to bring you know, get more information about this. but, what mehdi, there are a lot of stakes to this, not just the financial, but the
financials can be really hurting america's national security interests. and -- right, so we think about the senate foreign relations committee, and these committees can say, well, actually what you did by creating a quick report, and a more pro savvy policy that any other administration is involving the saudis to the point where now hunter biden tries to get a tiny attraction from them. is he actually? maybe not. maybe looking at oil prices -- and what you have, what too, is this example given to the saudis would, because the trump administration did not, you know, impose any -- we are seeing ongoing arrests, intimidation, harassment of saudi dissidents and other people. >> and the right phrase here, we know trump, according to pompeo, go tell the saudis they owe us.
that's how trump sees the world. it's all transactional. walter, one last question for you, what does it mean for this country, for our democracy, that declared candidate for the presidency 2024 is running, while effectively in the pay, gaining income money from a foreign government? >> yes, and you can expand that question, or include, while he wasn't government before and jared kushner's activities as well. the bottom line is what is at stake here is the american national interests, national security, economics, all of it or what the government is there to do. but when we have to wonder that these folks are pursuing their own financial interests, it leaves us wondering if they are looking out for our financial interests, and precisely, why i called on donald trump to divest his financial interests. and here we go again, it's round two with the same candidate not committing to the best of the financial interests, and having only deepened his tied to the murderous regime
that killed jamal khashoggi. >> indeed, deep in his financial financial ties, sadly, and as akbar pointed out, the political, political geo ties. walter shaub, and akbar shahid ahmed, thank you both, appreciate it. coming up -- the federal government spent the day tapping down concerns that aliens had been shot out of the sky. the plethora of unidentified objects shot out of the sky over the weekend, and the reason why so many are popping up now. that's next. ♪ ♪ ♪ has a whole team to help her get the most out of her medicare plan. ♪wow, uh-huh♪ advantage: me! can't wait 'til i turn 65! take advantage with an aarp medicare advantage plan... only from unitedhealthcare. ♪ ♪ why are there two extra seats? take advantage with an aarp medicare advantage plan... are we getting a dog? a great dane? two great danes?! i know. giant uncle dane and his giant beard. maybe a dragon? no, dragons are boring. twin sisters! and one is a robot and one is a knight.
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>> breaking news -- u.s. fighter jets showdown and unidentified object flying at high altitude over alaska. >> breaking news out of canada at this hour. as the u.s. military has shot down another high altitude airborne object over that nation. >> the u.s. military, downing yet another high altitude unidentified object in the skies of north america. this is the fourth time in just over a week. >> the coverage of unidentified aerial phenomenon, or uap's, never ending over the weekend. you probably heard about a chinese spy balloon that floated across the continental united states before an air force f-22 shot it down off the coast of south carolina nine days ago. but then, on friday, and object was spotted over the arctic ocean near alaska, and shot down. and another object was spotted over yukon saturday, prompting canadian prime minister justin trudeau to request american fighter jets shoot that one down. and then, yesterday, yet another object, this time over lake huron, near michigan, it
was shot down, too. that is a total of four objects shut down over north america in just over a week, dotting from alaska to south carolina. and we have been all over it, as a media industry. and understandably so, because it has so many tantalizing elements. ufos, american fighter jets, in the skies, restricted airspace, mysterious debris, and chinese espionage. but it is my job, as a journalist, not just to tell you what is happening, but to give context to it, as well. it's a very good reason these are all popping up right now. and it's likely because a defense grader filters objects based on speed, and have previously been looking for faster moving objects, like planes or drones. but after the chinese balloon incident, norad, and a defense official tells nbc news, quote, the easiest comparison is an online search for a car, when you use filters for color, model, et cetera, and see the search results, and then go back and say, turn off the color filter, and you see more options. the white house press briefing
today, press secretary kareen jean pierre, and pentagon spokesperson john kirby backed down the immediate speculation. >> i know there have been questions and concerns about this but there is no, we've got no indication of aliens or extra terrestrial activity with these recent takedowns. >> i don't think the american people need to worry about aliens. i don't think there's anyone that needs to be said. >> if you are worried about aliens, no need to worry anymore. but while everyone's attention has been focused on the sky, there is a real disaster unfolding on the ground. in ohio. that's next, don't go away. ext, don't go away before your asthma got in the way? get back to the things you love... with fasenra. fasenra is an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma. having too many eosinophils, a type of white blood cell, can cause inflammation and asthma symptoms. fasenra is designed to target and remove eosinophils and helps prevent asthma attacks.
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vinyl chloride, used to make plastics. when it burns at lower temperature, it emits a gas called -- used to clear trenches and world war i. the vinyl chloride in particular is highly flammable, and crews burn it off and what they call a controlled environment. that intern produced a huge plume of smoke and within serious health and environmental concerns. so, how safe is it for residents of east palestine? how serious is norfolk southern 's financial commitment to making residents hold? what are the transportation secretary people, waiting until moments ago to issue his first public statement on it, on twitter. sil caggiano it's a hard hazardous material specialist, and served as a chief with the youngstown, ohio fire department. he joins me now. sil, thanks so much for coming on the show. you told a local news outlet, quote, we basically nuked a town with chemicals, so we could get a railroad open. can you elaborate for our viewers what you mean by that? >> what i meant by that was spurred by video that i saw
someone had posted from, i think, darlington, pennsylvania, where that big cloud that you see rolling over that environment, in an aversion, starting to travel out laterally. and this cloud went over this individual's house. and you could see particulate matter, little black particulate matter starting to float down out of that cloud. it kind of reminded me of the stuff that you see from, you know, movies, you know, nuclear fallout from a nuclear detonation. i'm thinking to myself, well, yeah. it reminds me of a nuclear fallout, but in a way, this time it was nuked by chemicals. and it was all to keep the railroad going. >> so, authorities said safe residents to return to their homes. what are your concerns? >> well, my concerns are for chemicals that i haven't been able to find, that they have been looking for. they have been looking for all of organic chemicals, which encompasses a large, you know,
broad spectrum of chemicals, and the devices they're looking from, with the photo organization place. however, stuff like this takes a special photo ionization device lab, or it takes a special meaner. we're also not talking about dioxins. we're not talking about some of the other byproducts that were put into the cloud. and my concern was, you know, very quickly, relatively quickly after this stuff all burned off, it started bringing people back home. and they kind of put out a notice that said, if you feel like you want to have your house checked, call this number, and more folks, norfolk southern we'll send someone there to check on that. number one, norfolk southern, checking your house is like when -- you don't want the company that did this to you, to your house, tell you your house is all right. you should be able to have somebody else, somebody with the u.s. epa. the other part is what are they
checking for? they only give lists of what they have found. they're not telling you what they are checking for. and i'm concerned because we have some toxins, and it could be either from the burning of chloride's, the vinyl chloride, hopefully by now, the hydrogen chloride that were created by burning off vinyl chloride argon. and these are the things i'm concerned of. >> you mention epa, and there is another special ohio production agency, emergency response unit, told the washington post that the residents can continue to drink the water. they say it's safe. it's not affected by the incident. i have no reason not to believe the epa and experts. but i also covered the 9/11 first response, and what they went through over the last 20 years, when they were told it's safe to go to that site, and some of the cancers and horrible effects of that decision. a lot of the stuff as long term, right? a lot of the stuff we don't know the fallout for a long time to come? >> yes, i believe i mention that in the article that you
looked at. we're gonna be looking at these five, ten, 15 years, 20 years now. i believe what kirk cooler said about that, he's fairly a heads up guy from the epa. they are doing testing of the water treatment plant only because they can test it before it goes to the people. they can test for a lot of that stuff. again, i can't know all the testing beyond the organic chemicals. however, what i do worry about, the hundreds and hundreds of people in the surrounding communities that depend on wall water, well what are. the u.s. epa just announced today that these east palestine is going to considered a sight to start doing cleanup, and holding norfolk southern, you know, liable for that. >> yeah. >> yes, they've got a problem. and it's in the ground. it could be getting into the whitewater. you don't know. you don't know what the health affects long term are gonna be the name of and help this stuff before they evacuated.
you don't know. first responders, they were there. you don't know. you're not gonna know for a long period of time. and like you said at 9/11, the big joke is how many people died at 9/11, you know, they give you the number, and the correct answer is they are still dying from that. so, how long down the line is this gonna be? how far are we gonna be looking for the consequences, that's, something? >> these are good, important questions that you are posing. and i hope people in the federal government, i hope that transportation secretary and others are listening. sil, thank you for your time. appreciate it. >> thank you very much. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> still ahead -- how democrats plan to hold on to the white house and the senate next year. congressman ruben gallego who is running for the senate joins me next, live. don't go away. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ known for loving the outdoors. known for getting everyone together. no one wants to be known for cancer, but a treatment can be. keytruda is known to treat cancer.
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to get in. >> i don't think that's in. >> i don't think that' voters, and independent voters. she doesn't work for them. she doesn't talk to arizonans anymore. people don't feel that she is there for the right reasons, and she's spending more time, you know, with the hedge fund managers and private equity
managers. and she is with her union members. that's not gonna sell in arizona. it doesn't matter what party she's in. she's been in arizona, and they're not coming back for her. >> what are you hearing on the ground in arizona? do you think she's gonna run? or do you think of just retired from the senate to spend more time with her donors? >> yes, i think there's a lot of skating right now, people are looking and drink some tea leaves. we can't focus on that. we are gonna focus on putting out the best campaign possible, getting out there. we have already had more than 50,000 individual donors to gallego for arizona.com. we've traveled more than 800 miles up and down arizona, starting in tucson, ending in tribal land and the white river apache, and navajo land also. some of that is done at this stage. when you have excitement every step of the way. so, we know that we stick to what we believe in. talking to arizonans about the american voter, and how we're gonna get them there, we're gonna win this race. it doesn't matter who the republican support of either. >> so, let's talk about the
economy. tomorrow, the labor department will release that consumer price index, and gauge inflation. some economists are worrying about inflation rising again. do you think that might derail the pretty successful democratic argument in recent months that the biden economics is working? >> look, i think at the end of the day, when you have an announcement of 519,000 new jobs unexpected, you have the lowest unemployment and almost 50, or 60 years for latinos, lowest unemployment and the history of this country. you have gas prices that are still sliding down. i think no matter what happens, people are gonna be looking at the overall situation, saying we are heading in the right direction. now, we can't deny that people still aren't hurting. i see that every day. people do feel that the cause of things are too high. but i think they do see the democrats are actually trying to do something about it. and i think that we're gonna get credit for it. so, let's hope that the situation tomorrow and the report is good tomorrow. but i don't think at all into wields our moment in that we have been ticking up for the last three months. >> congressman, i never thought
i'd say this. but joe biden is the most successful president, in my view, in my lifetime, in terms of legislation passed, in terms of the economy he's overseeing, as you mentioned. it has been, you know, astonishing series of wins for the president. >> it feels good! >> yes, it feels good for the democrats, i'm sure. and yet a recent poll -- >> it feels good for the presidency -- >> but the problem is, look at the polling. the washington plus abc news shows poll so shows that 50% of democrats and democratic leading independents before a candidate other than joe biden -- despite his victories. 42.8% approval rating, one of the lowest ratings for any modern president of this point in the presidency. so i gotta ask you, will you be campaigning with joe biden in arizona, if when he declares his running again? >> absolutely. look, i'm gonna be very happy to campaign with the person that took on pharma, and beat them. and so, you and i would be coaching our seniors. i'm gonna be happily, you know,
campaigning with a person that brought the largest micro chip manufacturing fab in the country, actually in the world to arizona. i'm gonna be very happy to be with that person. another person that's gonna be very happy to campaign with someone who promised to actually bring down the cost of insurance, and he did that. because this president has given results. i think the law at the end of the day, people are gonna look at results, and say this president is the most competent present in our lifetime and i want that person to return to the white house. >> congressman, i'm intrigued as to what you think is the reason why some of his successes, that you and i both recognize, are not translating into kind of public opinion, to put it bluntly. is it because of his age? is it because of right-wing media attacks and polarization? is it because -- is it because of, you know, that camille and inflation, the inflation part of the economy that brings down the rest of the message? what do you think it is that leaves them in this position, just as these winds are translating into big polling numbers? >> this could be lagging
indicators of economic success or what happened later. but also i think it's very important that democrats do something that we don't do. we need to be talking about the successes. we should be proud about what we've been able to do here. we have literally have been able to take this economy, out of a deep recession because of covid, and come out of it stronger, with some of the strongest, you know, economic indicators, the lowest unemployment in the history of this country. these are things we need to be bragging about. we should not be afraid. for the first time, democrats really need to say, we're really leading this country in the right direction. and when we lead within that matter, i think we're gonna be able to get people to really follow us. >> we should not be afraid, as a good democratic party, i hope you sit. congressman ruben gallego, thank you for your time. appreciate it. >> have a good one. >> >> good evening rachel.