tv Jose Diaz- Balart Reports MSNBC February 23, 2023 8:00am-9:00am PST
paul -- you could not be around him and not have a good time. >> were you close to paul? >> you couldn't be any closer. than paul paul and i and buster and i. he's wonderful, wonderful. >> one of the things you enjoyed doing together, just riding the property? >> i loved doing anything with paul paul. it was an absolute delight. but, yeah, one of the things, i mean paul's passion, paul was passionate about a lot of things, but that property was really a passion of his. he loved to do -- he loved to work it, he loved to work the
fields, he loved to work the food plots, he loved to hunt. he would work on the roads. i mean, he would -- he would work on all of it. he would work on the structure -- he would work on the whole property. it was his passion. >> so on the evening of the 7th, the jury has been inundated with data from various different sources, but -- >> sure. >> just ballpark, can you, knowing what we know now after reviewing everything, but roughly when do you remember paul getting there and you getting there and starting to ride the property? >> now that i had the benefit of seeing all of these records, paul paul got home, i believe a little bit before 7:00.
and i got home a little bit before him. i think the details have been that i got home around 6:42 or 6:45 or something like that and paul got there, you know, very quickly thereafter. by 7:00. >> so you rode the property for a while. do you remember when maggie arrived? >> yeah, it was -- it was later than that. it was 8:00 or after 8:00. i think it was after 8:00 and looking at the records. little bit after 8:00. >> and do you remember -- do you remember her arriving or where you were when she arrived? >> i believe i was at the shop when she came through. which would not be unusual for her having been away. if somebody had gotten the mail, maybe not. if somebody had not gotten the mail, it would be perfectly normal for her to pull through. i believe she did pull through there that day. and paul and i were at the shop, i believe.
>> and what did you do after maggie arrived? >> maggie went to the house. and i know that. but shortly after, however i learned it, maggie got home, i went to the house when maggie got home. and i left paul at the shop. >> so and what did you do when you got to the house? >> i saw mags, talked to mags. and i took a shower. >> the clothes that we saw in the snapchat video was -- is that the clothes you had on at work that day? >> yes. those are the clothes i had on at work that day. >> and the jury has seen you in those clothes. and on june 7th, how tall were you and how much did you weigh? >> on june 7th, i'm a hair over 6'4", right at 6'4". on june 7th, i was about 265
pounds. 264, 265. >> and this was in june. june 7th. >> yes, sir. >> when you're outside, riding around, and doing -- do you get hot and sweaty? >> absolutely. paul and i had done some things, we unloaded bulldozers, cleaned the bulldozer, fooled around, yeah, i mean i had sweated. i was, you know, i was heavy and taking prescription pills also makes you sweat worse. at least taking oxycodone makes you sweat more than you normally do. >> so was it unusual for you to take a shower when you got back to the house? >> not at all. >> and when you -- after you took a shower, what did you change into? >> i changed into the clothes that you've seen in this trial, shorts and the shirt.
>> okay. when you got out of the shower, and changed clothes, what did you do next? >> i went back out where mags and paul paul were and -- for dinner. >> what was going on? >> mags had -- as you heard, blanca had prepared dinner. but it had been cooked earlier. mags had fixed -- i know mags had fixed mine and her plate because i didn't fix a plate. she may have fixed paul paul. paul paul was eating and almost done eating by the time i got back out, which also wasn't unusual. paul paul was always on the go. he never sat still. and, you know, he would sit down to eat, but then he's going on to his next item. >> and -- >> maggie and i ate. >> and you all ate the table, at
the den, what is your normal habit? >> we would do both. when we ate at the table, it was really more sort of more formal or -- not formal, but just more of an organized thing. our normal -- what we would normally do on a regular evening is eat in the den in front of the tv. and that's where we ate that day. i ate on the couch. the table. maggie had a little -- a tv tray that she kept over there, and paul paul would usually sit in a recliner and eat off of the ottoman. >> was the tv on? >> yes. >> was that normal for the tv to be on? >> yes. tv -- if we were in the house, the tv was on. >> so what happened next? >> paul paul moved on doing whatever he was doing. i don't know if he was in the gun room doing something or he was in his room doing something. he was outside doing something.
i actually thought he had gone to the shed, but in looking at to the shop, but in looking at the benefit of having these records that we have i know he was still at the house, somewhere around the house doing something, but he wasn't in there with maggie and i. but maggie wanted to go to the kennels. and i had eaten dinner. i laid back on the couch, where i was sitting, maggie wanted to go to the kennels. and she asked me to go. and i didn't -- i didn't go at that time. i didn't want to go. >> why didn't you want to go? >> it was hot. i had just had a shower. i knew i would end up doing more work. sweating more. and the dogs is always a chaotic scene. and i just didn't want to go right then. >> well, let me ask you what had you done the previous days,
like, friday and saturday and sunday? >> start with friday? >> yeah. >> or go backwards? >> yeah, start with friday. just briefly. >> so june 4th, my dad was in the hospital in savannah, georgia, at memorial hospital. and i went down to visit him friday afternoon. and i stayed with him in the hospital. i spent the night there, you know. he was real sick. he was having a hard time. >> did you get much sleep friday night? >> no, i mean, i had a -- a real sweet nurse found me -- at first there was a hard chair in there, like this, but a nurse found me a soft chair, sort of like a recliner, so, i mean, i'm sure i slept, but i didn't sleep, you
know, i didn't get a night's sleep, no, sir. >> and then saturday and sunday? >> saturday, we had plans with -- with buster and brooklyn. you heard about brooklyn, buster's wonderful little girlfriend. and mags and i had plans with them to meet them in columbia to go to the south carolina -- it was a regional baseball tournament. south carolina was playing virginia, i believe. so when i got back from savannah, and met up with mags, at some point we headed to columbia. there wasn't a lot going on in between us. we headed up to columbia and met bust and brooklyn. >> and did you stay in columbia saturday night? >> we did. we went to the ball game. and i remember it was an evening
game. we went pretty early and tailgated. maggie and -- maggie had reconnected with a college friend, who coincidentally had married a college friend of mine. and they had a son that played for carolina. he was a first baseman. and a really good little player. and we met them and tailgated with them and it was a lot of fun. had a lot of parents of the players that were playing for carolina, and it was just -- it was a fun time. we tailgated and then we went to -- it was a night game, so we went to the game, and the game got over, you know, it was fairly late into the evening. and after that, bust and brooklyn and mags and i, i
believe we went to the restaurant in the hotel where we were staying, but we went and had dinner and then bust and brooklyn went home and, of course, maggie and i went to our room. >> and then get up the next day and another game? >> another game the next day. that's right. and -- >> and after that you head back to moselle with maggie? >> yeah, we went to the game. that's right. mags and i go back to -- >> moselle. >> moselle. >> the jury heard about miss rask talking about you bringing krispy kreme doughnuts to your dad. >> maggie loved them. she would spoil my dad and always, always taking him something. my dad loved sweets. and she and i picked up doughnuts and took them krispy kreme doughnuts to him. >> and then you spend the night
together at moselle on sunday night? did you both spend the night at moselle on sunday night? >> yes. >> and then the 7th was a workday? >> that's right. it was a monday. monday june 7th. >> i'll rephrase it. >> i'm sorry. >> was monday the 7th a workday for you? >> yes. >> okay. >> and i just wanted to -- in the background, moving forward to when you testified previously about maggie asking you to go to the kennels, were you tired? >> oh, yes, i was tired. >> and you had just had a shower. >> just had a shower. >> and you said that, well, did you go with maggie to the kennels? >> no. >> immediately? >> no, i did not. >> what did you do, when did she leave? >> yes, she did. she left and paul paul was gone. >> do you know how she got to the kennels? >> at the time i didn't.
but now looking at these condensed records, and understanding the timeline it is clear to me she rode with paul paul. >> okay. and did you stay in the house? >> yes. >> for how long? >> not long. i laid back on the couch, put my feet up, and, like many times when maggie asks me to do something that i didn't want to do, or didn't start out doing, i changed my mind, and decided i'm going to ride up there. and i did. >> and how did you get to the kennels? >> i went on the golf cart. >> was the golf cart at the house? >> yeah. it was. and it was there most of the time. >> and when you got down to the kennels, what was happening? >> just what i thought it was, it was a little bit of chaos. i mean, it is clear to me that
mags had just let the dogs out. the two dogs that were out were really her pet dogs. one is gravy, you heard about a black lab, that's gravy, that's buster's dog, and the other is the yellow lab you heard about, that's bubba. bubba was mine and maggie's dog, but it was really mine, maggie's, bust and paul paul's dog, a family dog, but bubba's the dog i hunted. i mean, maggie loved bubba. she loved grady too, but she had a special place for b for bubba. when the dogs were let out, first thing they would do, they would run -- if you look at the overhead picture that you've seen, there were planted pines right behind the kennels. so you got the kennels and the chicken coop sort of form an l shape.
and in that "l" was some planted pines. first things the dogs would do is go out in that kennel and, you know, bubba, and grad i think learned this from bubba, but bubba had to mark every tree. he would go and he would do a little number on this tree and that tree. you know how dogs marking his t. that's the first thing those dogs did when they came out. when i got there, those dogs were in that area. so that's why i believe that it hadn't been long before they had been let out. grady was chasing guineas. which was a normal thing to do. >> what are guineas? >> guinea fowl, a guinea fowl is like a chicken, a domestic bird that, you know, we had them. they make a lot of racket. it is like i know this sounds
silly but like a guard bird. because anytime, you know, they make a lot of racket anytime anything unusual is going on. if anything disturbs them, it could be a person, somebody driving up, whatever, they're going to make a lot of racket. so grady's chasing the guineas. you know, paul's fooling with rogan's dog cash. maggie's just kind of standing there watching the dogs, which is and they were in that place as the dogs were out longer, they branch out more. but at that point in time, they were right there. that told me they hadn't been out a long time. bubba, bubba catches a chicken. i'm talking to maggie for just, you know, a short time before bubba catches a chicken.
i take the chicken, put it -- when bubba -- bubba didn't chase -- these dogs didn't chase the chickens to kill them. they didn't kill them. they did kill them sometimes, but it was about the chase with the dogs and they were proud when they caught one. you could tell by the way bubba would prance to you when he brought the chicken to you, he was proud that he had caught it. but he wasn't trying to kill it. and so most times the chicken wasn't dead. and that chicken wasn't dead. but a lot of times they would be stunned and they would be just real lethargic. you had to take the chicken and you had to put it up somewhere, where, you know, the chicken could be by itself for a minute and it would eventually, usually, you know, come back to normal and go on about its, you know, whatever a chicken does. >> did you get the chicken out of bubba's mouth? >> i did. i took the chicken from bubba
and put it -- on top of that. >> we have seen this video of paul with cash, rogan's dog. did you know -- did you know that was going on? what do you remember about that? about -- >> i knew paul was -- i knew paul was fooling with -- when i pulled up on the golf cart, maggie was standing back sort of where the driveway would be. it sort of runs out at the feed room. the storage room is what we call it, it has been called a feed room. but it sort of ran out. maggie was a little bit further up where she could see back in that angle where the dogs were. paul was fooling with rogan's dog, back toward the kennel, if i remember when i first got there, paul was more in the driveway, but then i knew paul was in the kennel fooling with cash, yes. did i know what he was doing?
i didn't know exactly what he was doing, no. >> did you -- >> i knew he was fooling with his -- i knew he was fooling with his tail. >> was cash in the kennel when you pulled up, you think? >> not when i first got there. >> did bubba or grady have any collars on? >> yes. >> both dogs, one dog, you remember? >> i don't know about grady, but i know bubba had on his, what we call a tracking collar. paul, for his hunting dogs, paul had a system, a series of tracking collars. i think there were five, maybe six, but a tracking collar that had a device that would tell you where that collar was. so that as bubba was bad about, you know, he would stay close for a minute, but then he would take off and he would especially do that on maggie. he would take off and run. and so he had on a tracking collar that if he did that, you
could, you know, you could know, okay, he's, you know, half a mile down here. it is not going to follow him, but so far, but it would follow a good long distance, so you could go get the dog if he ran off, which bubba frequently would do, especially when it was just mags and bubba. so paul, paul probably would have been the one to put that on bubba. >> so you've got us where you have gotten the chicken out of bubba's mouth and put it up on a doghouse or something? >> i believe -- i believe what i put it on, i don't remember this, but i've seen pictures and all this, and i saw the chicken sitting on top of the -- what looks to me like a portable dog crate. wherever it was sitting on there is where i would have put it up there. you know? i don't believe anybody else moved that chicken and
ultimately that chicken did die. >> and what did you do after you got the chicken out of bubba's mouth? >> i got out of there. i left. i went back to the house. >> before we do that, we have seen the dog kennel video with cash and mr. davis and slowed it down for him. did you see the water hose in that video? on the ground? do you remember seeing that? >> yes, i do. >> was the water hose out? >> obviously. in the video. but i don't specifically remember that. but i can look in that video and see it. >> right. >> but that's not something that i noticed. >> so, but, you see it in the video here? >> yes, sir. >> and then the two dogs were out. >> absolutely. bubba and grady. >> and then you -- you -- how did you get back to the house?
>> the same route, same route i had come on. i came down the driveway, made a left on -- you saw my route in the car, i drove that same route. >> my question obviously wasn't clear enough, were you in a vehicle, did you walk? what mode of transportation did you use to get back to the house? >> same way i came. i went back in the golf cart. and it was the golf cart, if you remember that mark ball testified he saw where we normally would park it. you pull up, pull along the front entrance, and it -- you come in from the left and go just past it and be on the right and you come in from the right and you would be just past it on the left. and that's where i got in it and that's where i put it back. >> did you do anything else before leaving after you took the chicken out of bubba's
mouth? >> no. >> we heard about bubba being stubborn. how long did it take you to get the chicken out of bubba's mouth? >> bubba could be stubborn but bubba would listen to me and another thing, when bubba had on that collar, one of the other features of that collar was -- >> did bubba have on the collar or grady? >> bubba had on the collar. >> bubba had the collar. >> i know bubba had a collar on. and i'm not sure about grady. >> okay. go ahead. >> if i misspoke on that, there is no question about it. bubba had on the collar. i assumed grady did too, but i didn't -- i didn't -- even i saw grady, i didn't notice for a fact that grady had on a collar. but he probably did. >> so -- >> it makes sense to me that he did. >> how long did it take to get the chicken out of bubba's mouth? >> it didn't take long. he's coming back to show me hey, i caught this chicken.
he's not running from me. he's proud of the fact he caught this chicken. he's -- he comes right up to me. bubba was really strong. but, you know, you just -- you take your thumb when the dog is clenched and his mouth say little bit open, you take your thumb and you push his gum in really tight against those sharp teeth and his mouth opens right up. took the chicken out and put it on, i believe, the portable dog kennel. >> and then left? >> and then i left. >> you did leave? okay. and did you go back to the house? >> i went straight back to the house, to the air conditioner. >> and what did you do when you got back to the house? >> i laid down on the couch. >> and then what? was the tv on when you went back? >> yeah, i mean, the tv never got cut off. >> so you went back to the
house, you laid down on the couch, and then what happened next? >> i'm not -- i'm not positive, i dozed off for a minute or didn't doze off for a minute, but i got up off the couch, and i was -- i made up my mind i was going to visit my mom. >> had you spoken to barbara earlier in the day? >> i did. >> and -- >> i talk to barbara most days. if i don't see her, i talk to her. >> that was your understanding of your mother's condition on later on in the afternoon of the 7? >> she was agitated, which she got agitated when my dad, you know, we were putting my dad in a hospital and he had a lot -- over the 18 months, two years, i mean, my dad was in the hospital, he was in the hospital a lot.
and my mom -- i believe my mom knew when my dad wasn't there. because she would get agitated. that's just the only term you can think of. she would get agitated. she would cry a lot. she would -- she would be fussy when she normally wouldn't be fussy. and she was -- i know alzheimer's patients are unpredictable, but i'm convinced she knew. it happened frequently. and barbara ann told me, your mom's agitated, you need to check on her, i gave her medicine, she's resting. so wasn't anything urgent. but she is resting. so what barbara would do, barbara could handle her -- barbara could handle her better than -- my mama, we all loved barbara. my mama loved barbara. my mama could get -- barbara could get my mom to do things that nobody else -- when she fussed for anybody else, including me or my brothers or
my sisters, barbara could get her, you know, in order. and but barbara had given her medicine and to settle her down and calm her down. and that would sometimes make her go to sleep for a little while. but then she would be agitated when she woke up. >> the -- did you go check on your mom? >> i did. >> where did you park when you got there? >> in the -- you saw the pictures. there is two exits off of that deck. one of them to the right. one of them straight out the back door. i would have parked to the left. if you come down these steps and if these are the steps, it would be to the left and back over there. >> all right. and -- >> which is where i always parked, where we always parked
anytime you were going in that entrance. >> all right, i'm going to stop there and ask, doug, if you don't mind pulling up state's exhibit 524, the onstar data and slide 38, which is in evidence. can you -- can you see this -- this slide with those dots? >> yes, sir. i can. i can. >> and the red dots here at the -- seem to be joined, where is that in relation to your parents' house? >> where the arrow is? >> yes, sir. >> all right, that's back in the area where i'm talking about. all right, so if you look in this picture, all right, you see the -- you see the open area
where the green grass? that's the front door. okay. yes, right where that circle is, that's the front door. if you look closely at the house, you can see a big dormer right in the middle of the roof. that's right over the front door. the white thing to the left of the house, that's, like, a parking pad where the driveway is. and there is a parking pad, like, say, you go -- if you follow the driveway all the way to the house, you're going to run straight into a carport, all right, by the carport door. just to the left, before you get to the carport is this area that you can see here. that's part driveway, mainly parking pad. >> all right. i'm going to -- if you can pull up defendant's exhibit 130, which is in evidence, please, sir?
and from this photo, can you point out roughly where you normally, where you parked that evening? >> this is the -- this is the entrance to the right that i'm talking about. there is an exit and entrance. right in front of the door you see there, if you came down those steps, walked to your left, would be down there would be where i parked. >> would you have parked on the grass? >> you get on the edge of the grass back there. there is some grass there for sure. but it is not -- it is not the area up here by the house where it is sodded and this grass that you can really see in this picture. so it may be on the edge of the grass, yes, sir. >> and in relation to the satellite dish, are you looking at this photo, are you to the right of that? >> yeah, you would be to the right of that satellite dish. >> okay. >> yes. >> and -- >> i believe that satellite dish is right on the edge of the, you
know, there is a hedge, and, like, you see the -- i don't know what you call it, a border, like a border where the grass ends and the flower bed or whatever it is starts. >> right. >> i think you can't see it, but think that satellite is probably close to that border. >> all right. well, let's -- >> so it would be to the right of that in this picture. >> doug, will you pull up defendant's exhibit 134, see if this is -- is the door that you're talking about -- >> that's it. >> -- the stairs that -- are those the ones you would enter? >> right. these are the steps that i used that night that we always used. and one of the reasons being is my dad, this door goes into what we call the breakfast room. the breakfast room leads right
into the kitchen and so straight through this door, all of the breakfast room is kind of to the left, that door goes straight through another doorway, no door there, but like a -- just open. it goes in the kitchen. immediately to your right, so that entrance into the kitchen is the entrance into where my mom and dad's rooms were. so if you went through that door, you were in a little area that had my mom's closet, my dad's closet, a little bit further you go into my mom's bedroom, if you went to the right, you would go -- my dad and my mom didn't sleep in the same room at this point. but the bedrooms were, you know, they were back to back. there was a door going from one to the other that was blocked. but it was there. and then a bathroom. so this is really -- this is really the part of the house that at their age was getting
used. that's why you went in this entrance because my mom and whoever was caring for her was always in her bedroom, which would be just on the other side of the room that has these windows that you see to the right. those would be the windows for the room where my dad slept. >> right. >> and my mom's right on the other side, the kitchen is right there. this is the part of the house they were always in. >> and are you the only one that would pull up in the back like that? >> no. >> common for your brothers and your sister to do the same? >> we all did it. we all parked in the same way. if you knew you were going to the front of the house or you knew there was a crowd there or for whatever -- you may park on the driveway, but if you knew under normal circumstances my dad always stayed in the breakfast room, where he had a recliner and the tv. that's where my dad always was. my dad never -- you would never
go catch him sitting in the den up front or in a living room. he just wasn't up there. he was in this room, watching tv, or either he was on his back deck. and my mom was either in her room, which was just off of that, or she might be in the kitchen. or the breakfast room. >> and when you got to the house, who was there? your mother's house on the night of june 7th? >> my mom was there, and shelly smith was there. >> and what did you do when you got there? >> first thing i did was i tried to -- i tried to -- i knocked on the door. the door was locked. i knocked on the door. shelly didn't hear me. >> and shen what did you do next? >> i called. >> called what? >> i called my mom's house to let shelly know i was there, please come let me in. >> and was that the house phone
that has been referred to? >> yes. >> okay. >> and did she let you in? >> sure. >> and then what happened next? >> i went in and i visited with my mom. want me to go into detail on that? >> just briefly. yeah, what did you do? >> i went into the house and in my mom's bedroom, my mom had a bed that was where she slept in normal times. it was like, you know, a bed with, you know, the poles come out of the -- the poster bed that coming out of the corners. and she had a bed like that. where she slept. but she didn't sleep there anymore. but it was in the room. it was a hospital bed, so when you walked in the room, her bed was to the right, against the wall to the left was a hospital bed like a single bed, but a hospital bed. and the tv. and then there was a recliner where whoever was helping her would usually sit. so i went in, and i sat down on
my mom's hospital bed. and i just talked to her for a minute. my mom was awake. and i held her hand. and -- >> what kind of condition was she in? >> she was -- in her condition was not good at any time, but given her overall condition, she seemed to be doing pretty well. she wasn't agitated like i thought she would be. but like i was worried she would be or like barbara described her at that point. so she wasn't agitated. and i just talked to her. anytime we talked to my mom, we always tried to be real positive and, you know, upbeat, and just -- i just talked to her. you know? i just talked to her.
made sure she was okay. >> did you stay seated on the side of her hospital-style bed or did you move around? >> i mean, i stayed there for a few minutes, you know. i stayed there and i talked to her. more than just a few seconds. and then -- but i didn't stay there. she was -- she did look tired. so i got up. and i went and i -- i think i sat on my mom's bed for a minute to start with, and then i laid down on my mom's bed, which is, you know, that's what i normally did when i went in there. there wasn't a lot of chairs to sit in. and i just laid back on the bed. >> and -- >> and talked to shelly and watched tv. >> are you referring to her regular bed? >> that's right. not her hospital bed. not the bed she was in, but her -- her bed, the one i was talking about with, like, posts.
>> right. the -- let me skip something. was maggie planning to go over to your mother's with you that night? >> no, she wasn't planning to go with me that night. >> okay. >> in fact, maggie didn't really like to visit my mom. it was -- she loved to visit my dad. and she loved to spend time with my dad. and she spent a lot of time with my mom when my mom was healthy, but, you know, i mean, by this point my mom, she was a shell. she was a shell of her old self. and -- it was kind of -- it was
kind of sad to go and visit her anytime. she just -- she wasn't healthy. and maggie didn't like to go and just visit my mom. >> when you left moselle to head to alameda, the evening after you had gone back to the house at moselle, what -- >> say that again, jim? >> what exit did you use of the moselle property when you are going to alameda on the evening of june 7th? >> i went out the main gates, which would be straight ahead. you heard the two gates. there is the shop entrance, there is actually several entrances, but the main ones we used, an entrance by the dove field, an entrance further down by saw tooth oaks, but the main ones we used were the shop entrance and what we called the main entrance, where the gates were. >> did you go -- why didn't you
go by the kennels on your way home? >> there wasn't a reason to go by the kennels at that point. and i was going to alameda, which that -- the main gate would be the gates that were closer. >> did you notify maggie in some form that you were leaving to go see your mom? >> i tried to call her. >> and did she answer? >> no. >> and what did you do after that? >> i think i tried to call her again. >> and did she answer? >> no. she didn't answer. and at some point i texted her after that. >> the fact she didn't answer on two times, did that concern you? >> at that time, it didn't concern me at all. number one, she was paul paul.
so, no. i mean, number two, i mean, it is not unusual to not be able to get somebody all the time when they're at the house or on the property. you heard all the testimony about how spotty cell service was, so no, at the time, didn't strike me as anything unusual. >> yeah. now, moving back to alameda, you spent time with your mother and then you left to head back to moselle, is that correct? >> that's correct. >> did you drive straight back to moselle? >> i did. >> now, alex, there is some information from the telemetry data off your suburban and perhaps some of this onstar gps
data that indicates that at some point in time in your mother's driveway you stopped for about a minute. do you recall seeing that data? >> i do. >> what were you doing when you stopped? >> i was getting my phone. i had -- my phone had gotten -- there is a console in the middle of my car and my phone had gotten down in the console, between the console and the seat where you couldn't get to it. >> okay. >> were you during that minute or however long it was, were you disposing of murder weapons, alex? >> no. >> were you disposing of bloody clothes? >> no. >> and in your ride back to moselle, was -- were you driving faster than normal, normal? >> i was driving however i
drive. normal way that i drive. >> okay. >> when you got back to the moselle property, how did you enter the property? what entrance did you use? >> i came right back through the main gate. >> and what did you do then? >> i went straight to the house. >> and when you got to the house, what did you do? >> i went inside. >> were lights on when you pulled up or -- >> lights were on in the house for sure. i can't remember if there were flood lights on or not. i don't believe there were any flood lights on, but there were definitely lights -- all the lights in the house were on, yes. >> and when you -- how long did you stay inside the house,
roughly? >> now that i've seen the benefit of these records, i was in there several minutes. >> obviously, i mean, were you surprised that paul and maggie had not made it back to the house? >> you know, i don't know if surprised is the right word. but, i mean, i would have -- i thought they would have been back by then, you know. but did it cause me to go into any -- wasn't like i was shocked. but i mean, i thought they would be there. i distinctly remember, you know, i went and looked, sometimes i was very hot natured, number one. i was hot. i was heavy. and i was taking pills. so i was always hot. maggie was always cold. sometimes she would watch tv. we had a tv in the hunting room. you see on the wall there.
sometimes maggie would be in there watching tv where she could have the thermostat different than we always kept it cold in the main part of the house. so, i know i -- i know i went in there and looked in there for her. not unusual for maggie to be taking a bath and be not able to hear me. so i went back there, and i know i did those two things. and looked in those two places. and they weren't there. and so, you know, i knew they had been at the kennels, and i assumed they were still up there. >> so what did you do? >> i went to the kennels. i may have tried to call them. in fact, i probably did try to call them. i would think i called them. but as i sit here right now, i'm not positive, but i would think i did. i would think i tried to call them to see. >> and, alex, when you -- did you drive down to the kennels in your suburban?
not exactly sure what i did. but i got out of my car. i know i ran back to my car, called 911. i was up -- i called 911. i was on the phone with 911, i was trying to tend to paul paul, i was trying to tend to maggie. and i went back and forth between them. >> were you going to paul and maggie while you were on the phone with the 911 operators? >> yes. yes. >> and in a little bit i'm going to play the 911 tape, i want to ask you, and you've told law enforcement, it has been played here in the court, did you --
what did you do when you went up to paul at some point in time? >> paul -- paul was so -- he was so bad. at some point i know -- i know i tried to check him for a pulse. i know i tried to turn him over. >> when you say you tried to turn him over, why were you trying to turn him over? >> i don't know. i don't know. i don't know why i tried to turn him over. he was laying face down.
done the way he's done, the way his head was, i could see his -- i could see his brain laying on the sidewalk. i didn't know what to do. to tu grabbed him by the belt loop and tried to turn him over. and when i did, his phone popped out. i mean, his phone popped out. i picked it up and i put it right back there. >> do you have any idea how it popped out? >> i mean, i know it came out of his pocket when i pulled on his belt loop, when i pulled him to turn him over. and it just popped out. i mean, it popped right beside him and sat right beside him. >> were you able to turn paul at
all? >> i mean, i did -- i didn't turn him over. >> what side of paul were you when you were doing this? >> i was on the side that was away from -- i was on the side away from where my car was. yeah. >> what did you do with the phone? >> i put it back on paul paul. >> do you know which way it was pointing, upside down, down side? >> couldn't tell you anything about it. i know his phone popped out.
i picked it up and i put it back on him. >> did you see any messages on paul's phone? >> no. >> did you go to maggie? >> i did. >> did you touch her? >> i did. >> where did you touch maggie? >> i think i touched her down around -- i don't know. i don't know. if you ask me exactly, i think i touched her down around her waist, but i don't know. it was so bad.
excuse me. i know i went back and forth. i mean, i went back and forth between them. i know -- i know i did. >> i'd like to play the 911 call which is in evidence as defendant's exhibit number 9. this is the long version, the first clip. stop it when i say stop it, please. >> 2021, 22 hour, seven minutes, 9 seconds. >> i'm still here. >> communication. >> i have an alex murdaugh on
the line. he advising hise were shot. >> okay. give me the address. >> 4147 mozel road. it's bad. >> when you say, i've been up to it now and it's bad, what are you referring to? >> i'm talking about what i saw is what y'all saw pictures of. it was bad. it was terrible. when i first got there, i know i got out of the car. i know i got out of the car. i mean, i knew.
got out of the car. right at first, i don't -- i don't think i went all the way to them. i think i ran back and that's when i called 911. so i called 911. while i was doing that, then is when i went to maggie and i went to paul. that's what i think i'm talking about. >> keep going, please. >> okay. how -- did she shoot themselves? >> no. hell no. >> are they breathing?
>> no, ma'am. >> okay. it's your wife and your son? >> my wife and my son. >> in a vehicle? >> no, ma'am. they are on the ground out at my kennel. >> did you see anyone? >> shot in the head. shot really bad. >> okay. where is he shot at? >> ma'am, i don't know. he has blood everywhere. i see his brain. a hole in her head. >> is he breathing at all? >> no. >> do you see anything -- do you see anyone in the area? >> no, ma'am.
>> is there any gun near them at all? >> no. they didn't shoot themselves, ma'am. >> alex, right in there you say the word here. are you calling anybody or anything? >> no. i'm talking to that dispatcher. >> what did you mean when you said here? >> if you listen to that call, one of the first thing she asked me -- one of the first things she asked me was, did they shoot themselves. i knew, there's no way. i knew they didn't shoot themselves. there wasn't a gun.
they didn't shoot themselves. she asked me that. then she asked me another question, something about that. you hear me say here. then you hear -- i'm telling her here and then i say something and then you hear me say, if that's what you are asking. i'm letting her know they didn't shoot themselves. i'm saying here and then i give her an explanation, which you can't hear on that phone. but it's obvious to me what i'm doing. and i say, if that's what you are asking me. david owens asked me on august 11th did i call a dog or talking to somebody. there was no dog that was out. there was nobody there. >> let's talk about that briefly. when you got there and you saw maggie and paul, where were the
dogs? >> the dogs were in the kennels. the dogs were in the kennels. they were wherever they were when law enforcement got there. >> you seen pictures. they called dell davis and talked about the hose rolled up. did you roll the hose up? >> no. >> did you do anything other than call 911 and attend to maggie and paul? >> no. i do know that i was trying to find a flashlight. i was trying to find a gun. other than those things, no, i didn't do anything at the kennel. i didn't do anything with any hose. i didn't do anything with any dogs. >> was there anybody with you? >> no. >> keep going, please. >> you can't see it from the
road. >> is it a house or mobile home? >> it's a house. >> what is your name? >> my name is alex murdaugh. >> okay. did you hear anything or did you come home and find them? >> i've been gone. i just came back. >> was anyone else supposed to be at your house? >> no, ma'am. please hurry. >> we're getting somebody out there to you. . >> i should have known. >> alex, we just heard you say, i should have kn