tv Morning Meeting MSNBC September 18, 2009 9:00am-11:00am EDT
is the "morning meeting." topping the ajen do you today, the heated debate with spending, and bailouts in america. all of the massive discussions, is it driving us to a dangerous place. an emotional house speaker, nancy pelosi, says yes, and others would disagree. >> i saw this myself in the late '70s in san francisco, this kind of rhetoric, and it was very frightening. >> is there a violent protest brewing in this country? does it compare to what happened in the '70s? is this simply something the democrats have never seen before but the republicans are used to it? anyway, and motive for murder. this this a case of violence against women or violence that is random, and we have folks that can talk about this. and then searching for the
next star. the summit of conservatives getting under way in washington right now. there is not and who is not. plus, obama everywhere. the president's big weekend media blitz. all five sunday talk shows, and then david letterman on monday. smart strategy, or over saturation? nice to see you. pull up a chair and join the "morning meeting." well, is the health care debate on the verge of becoming dangerous? house speaker nancy pelosi got choked up saying this could heat up and turn into violence that she saw 30 years ago. and then this is another manifestation of political --
well, alex witt has the report. >> yeah, and there was literally violence in the 1970s, and it was racial and against ho homosexua homosexuals. check this out. she got choked up. >> i have concerns about some of the language that is being used because i saw -- i saw this myself in the late '70s in san francisco. this kind of rhetoric, and it was very frightening. >> so her office weighed in on this dylan, and said what she was probably referencing was the death of harvey milk, and that's
what she got all choked up about. whether it's emotion playing into all of this, and whether it's a political tactic, can you never put that out of the realm of possibility, when it comes with any politician, let alone the speaker of the house. and then boehner, also a politician, he is weighing in what this is all about? >> it's the trillion-dollar deficits as far as the eye can see, and the bailout of the auto industry, and their proposal on cap and trade, and then you add all of this, this whole government takeover of our health care system. and you begin to add all of this up and americans are saying stop. they are scared to death the country that they grew up in is not going to be the country that their kids and grandkids got to grow up in. >> yeah, and that fear may draw to the tears of the eyes of
people frightened about that. the back and fourth, you can see it's politics. and you see them weighing in different opinions there. >> what frustrates me, just watching that, is the lies. the fact that politicians are saying the government will take over health care. and i have not seen a proposal yet that has legs in it. that's for another conversation. the debate here whether about the exspecialens of protest and the current administration for perpetuating for subsidies and banks and then the military practices and getting into it with health care, whether you like it or not, is leading us to a negative and potentially dangerous place, like it or not. and joining us, a political analysts. he is also a historian with american university. and then karen finny that worked on health care reform in the
clinton white house, and is a friend and smarty pants. >> okay. >> i will put the protest against this president and the intensity of them in the context of the protest that you saw under reagan or george bush, images of him with devil horns and whether this is any more less than that? >> it's similar to protest that we have seen throughout history. some of the most negative and bitter health care debate back in 1993 and 1994 with clinton, and there were a lot of similar arguments being made. and the protests were hot against george w. bush. and on the one hand, the politics of policy. that's a perfectly legitimate and reasonable thing to do. and then there is the politics
of personal destruction. and i think that we are seeing now too much of the politics of personal destruction. of course we have seen it before, but i think it's taken on a particular violent tone in recent weeks. >> karen finny s. the reason for that because it's easier? it's easy to go after people, but hard to fix problems? >> yeah. and the other thing that is different now than ever before is cable television and the blogs. we are seeing these images and hearing this hate speech and divisive rhetoric in a barrage of ways. i think that's part of it. sure, attacking is always a lot easier. i think it's disappointing that john boehner had an opportunity to step up to the plate and acknowledge that maybe the rhetoric has gone a little too far. i personally think one of the most frightening things we saw is it did go a bit too far. when it goes too far and the leaders don't speak out that gives permission for the most
extreme fringe element on either side to either act up and do things that are more crazy. i think that's the fear that nancy pelosi was speaking to. >> professor, are we in the middle of a modern day rebellion and searching for what it is what we were supposed to rebell again? >> yeah, we are rebelling against a lot of demons of our own rekrags. when you have a former vice president candidate contributing to this talking about death panels, which are not present in any of the bills, but i do think there is a deep-seeded fear that among some that obama is taking us in a direction that is in fact, in their view, unamerican, and socialistic. >> let's go through this. to indict of president for socialism, or anything like that, when he clearly inherited
a set of policies from the banking system that he is perpetuating but did not design the architecture or make the decision of how to prowith the bailout, and he did not design the war structure but now navigating that. i think it's a cheap blow, karen, to go after the president for systems that are not what he designed and do not give him credit for the balls to deal with the broken systems that we are dealing with at the least of which is health care. if it's disingenuous on either side to suggest that more than this is his responsibility, that it's his responsibility, but he is not the architect of the banking system. >> yeah, that's right. and the health care reform that we are dealing with now and many of the things he is doing, this is what he campaigned on. this is what a majority of americans actually voted for. and more people support the
president than this smaller group of people that oppose. now, i think that you also have to separate out that there is a fringe element in the country, and we saw it during the clinton years. their objective is to take down the democratic president, period. it has nothing to do with policy disagreements as it has to do with the politics of personal destruction and desfrtroying a democratic president. and i feel bad for the people that actually have questions. and those people did not get their questions answered. >> yeah, 200 million of us, actually. and there is a large constituency -- well, i won't. professor, quickly. >> these charges of socialism and unamericanism are nothing new. franklin roosevelt was called anything you can imagine, a
socialist and communists, and these are the growing pains of any kind of funds mental change in this country. and that's not surprising this kind of politics should be levelled against barack obama as well. what magnifies it as well is the media. one or two hecklers at a rally of 1,000, 2,000, 5,000, make the media a issue of politics, and not the policy of personal destruction. >> yeah, and people are understanding that they are indeed hostage to a variety of broken systems. i think people are smart enough to improve the systems without destroying people in the process. we will see what happens. >> look at roosevelt, for example. >> and i think we have to remember it was the policies of george bush, that's what i believe, that actually led us to this place. i know you also blame clinton -- >> well, i got to wrap it up.
bush has lots of guilt, and let's not clinton off the hook when he created the financial architecture. let's talk about nancy pelo pelosi, and her office weighed in saying he was likely talking about the situation with the harvey milk, and he was assassinated. and now an update, they are saying he was not singling out anyone or any group, and her aides said prior to the news conference, everybody has a responsibility to be civil in their discourse. now, that being said, let's go to the health care reform. and the effort may start to focus on a bipartisan group of centers that is vowing to follow bauc baucus' lead by keeping the
bipartisanship alive. and let's go to chuck todd. lab lieberman, and snow, and what is the new gang of four? >> reporter: well, we have all known, republican olympia snow, one of the three republicans at the time who supported the president on the stimulus package was always going to be a major player. notice the other democrats that signed on with her in that statement, that shows you that in order -- this is just not about getting her but getting her guarantees the last four or five, some of the more conservative democrats in the senate caucus. every sign olympia snow is giving is that she wants to find a reason to support the legislation and not oppose it. take a look at her interview. >> i have always been a republican for the traditional
principles associated with the republican party. i have not changed as a republican, i think more my party has changed. >> reporter: she is giving an indictment on her own party. she has given off every clue that she is working for a way to work with the democrats and the senate finance committee. the question is do they get her -- at this point, if you are playing a numbers game, will they get the other main republican there, susan collins, and my guess is that's more likely than less likely. and bringing on olympia snow, that probably means they will get every single conservatives. >> we also have michelle obama literally playing into the conversation. >> reporter: yeah, a little today. >> what is her agenda? >> reporter: well, the president -- this white house has not a lot of good spokes people outside of the president,
and we know he has interviews, and a few other interviews he will do for the weekend, so we will see him that way. but, you know, very slowly this white house is becoming a little more comfortable with letting the first lady dip her toe in policy debate. it will be interesting what she says. >> yeah, a virtual media blitz. >> reporter: yeah, this is a belief the white house has, people get their news from so many different places, have you to show up in a lot of places in order to touch everybody. >> we get our news from you, chuck, from the white house, and thanks. a.c.o.r.n., earlier this week the senate denied funds to
a.c.o.r.n. what do you think the future of a.c.o.r.n. is, dylan? >> i think whether it's a.c.o.r.n., freedom works, i don't care, if they are willing to take up the cause of breaking up all of these broken systems, i think they could be tremendously beneficial. we have to rethink the understandable frustration in the country not at the classic partisan politics, but at a demand for transparency, accountability and choice in all of the systems. i know it's not as sexy, but when you look at competition, and then enable the banks that claim to be american that don't push and demand real choice and competition, have you to wonder who is working for who around here. if you are a political organizers, my suggestion if you are believing in freedom you need to send your hostage to washington, d.c. that you will not be held hostage.
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>> lab workers are telling us about ray clark. i want to show you what we are learning about him. according to some of the co-workers, he was quote, a control freak." he had no romantic interest with the victim, annie le, and he is not cooperating with police and he is not talking to them, and his lawyer is not talking to the media. we are not sure where he stands in all of this. in an e-mail overnight with one of the co-workers who worked with both annie and clark, and she said he was nice, but wei weirdweir weirdweir weirdweir weirdly territorial. and he had written an e-mail to annie just before the murder, saying "the last thing that i knew annie got a message from him saying her cages were
dirty." he was angry about that, and the investigators are looking into that as a possible motive. the only motive they ruled out was the love interests. we are told they are looking at the mice fight as one of them. >> thank you, jeff. what ultimately is the motive in a situation like this. is determinable in the evidence that we are looking at. a psychologist professor joins us. on what do you base your analysis? >> i don't want this to turn into something that he went crazy because he was upset blaming the victim, she did not take care of the mice cages. this -- >> we don't know if he did it, right? theoretically, he has not been
charged or tried or any of that business? >> yeah, the alleged person that did this. >> at least give the lip service. >> yeah, and he has a charge back in high school that he raped a girlfriend, and the people next door said he was controlling of his girlfriend. if annie le lived next door he would have been upset the way she handled her garbage. there may be no romantic relationship between the two, but that does not mean he is obsessed with her. this is the type of woman he wanted to get in his life and could not get that type of woman. he felt disrespected by her. and maybe he wanted her and could not get her and as the wedding approached, she never gives me the time of day, it's an ego issue. very psychopathic and has nothing to do with the mice.
>> and most women that don't want anything to do with me, there has to be more than that. i don't mean to make like of it. it's a horrendous tragedy to speculate the motivation for murder is because there was a romantic rejection strikes me as silly, just as if she was mean to the mice. >> no, they are angry about women because they blame woman for what goes wrong in their lives. this girl was sweet and kind, he would have picked on somebody else if the issue was cleaning mice cages. >> professor, what is your perspective on this? obviously this is a very scary thing for so many people, so many people in academics, and parents, and it terrifies everybody? >> yeah, what she says may be very well correct.
he may have been obsessed with her or a psychopath, but we don't have information about him. this was a case of workplace violence simply in that it happened at the workplace. that doesn't mean that he is not crazy or psychopathic, and that doesn't mean it's not workplace violence. >> if you were to look ultimately at how the environment affects people, and how they talk about having a personality at work and another personality at home, and how environment dictates peoples' behavior. >> i don't go with that. i don't think you are somebody different at some point different in the day. you are who you are. he would have gotten or focussed on a woman anyplace because she was not respecting him the way he wanted. >> are you speculating that or saying that as fact? >> what i am saying is that it
doesn't matter that it happened at work. people are going to go on and saying we need to have training and sensitivity. this is a psychopath. if he did this, this is a psychopath that committed a crime as opposed to at church or down the street or anywhere. >> i don't know how you can say the environment doesn't matter? clearly this happened at work. he did not -- if he killed her he did not kill anybody anywhere else? >> yeah, so. just because he happened to be there and she happened to be there. >> you are not feeling us better, pat. you put us in the elevator or park. >> that's the point, focus on every place. >> let's be careful. we have a concept of due process. we can pretend. straight ahead, we will plug
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welcome back. 9:30 on a friday morning. and the bipartisan health care bill rested with the so-called gang of six, and now that is replaced by what they are calling a gang of four. can olympia snow and independent, joe lieberman, get it through reform. and if you are watching tv this coming sunday morning, odds are the president will be on the screen. five networks carrying interviews with the xacommandern chief. and is this watering down his
message? then a potential deathblow for the birther movement. a judge issuing a smackdown to the lawyer filing the lawsuits, warning she will face charges if she keeps filing the lawsuits. see if the birther movement might come to a conclusion. and then the markets, making steady progress all week long, thanks to you the taxpayer and your subsidy to the system. the markets thank you. and the republican version of star search, called the values of voter summit, a two-day gathering of conservative republican politicians, and activist. what are their values? they will vote in the straw poll, so you get an indication
of where the wind blows way out in the competition. and former miss california, carry prejean. >> what we do know, we are omni hotel in washington. let's bring in brian moore covering things for us from nbc news channel. sarah palin, she is not there. who is also not there, newt gingrich. >> reporter: yeah, and they say it's a scheduling issue. a couple thousand people here, very excited about the speakers and the program.
congressman mike pence of indiana is speaking right now. basically, this is a battle over the soul of the republican party right now. we had a tea party with tens of thousands of people in washington, and they want to make clear the republican party is and was and will be about the values. and sarah palin and gingrich will be on the straw vote here. and mike muck ck -- huckaby, an rick santorum, and mitt romney -- two years ago, mitt romney and mike huckaby were in a battle that ended up at being around 30 votes. and there were major players in
the party. and the value voters summit wants to make clear to the party they are still an important part of the process and they must be listened to. mike pence was talking about it was the beginning of a comeback, and europe was overtaken by an avalanche. >> he is talking about the poll that he will do there. you have your top three, romney, palin, huckaby, and then vintage, and jindal, and pawlenty. >> if you were to look at the opening that seems to be there for the republicans on the center right, how did they get to a place where they can simply come out in favor three in fair markets competition, and all the
things we are lacking, and the president made it clear he would like to engage things even if some of the left are more harkened back to a previous era, and i feel on the left and right we are having old spitball fights. how do we move forward? >> well, for the president to be more successful, he has to come to the center right. that's where the nation is. for republicans to seek the nomination, they have to run to the right and then once they get the naomination, run back to th middle. so as we approach the next presidential season, they will talk to their base, and they will talk to the values. >> i guess the question is, what is their base? in other words, if the base simply is accusations, then that obviously will not be a huge viable political party. there is a string of broken systems and problems in the country, and you would think a
healthy opposition could do is a good job of keeping everybody honest. so what i have seen so far sxx i have only been here a few months, but i have not seen that that happens very often. >> you will hear more nuts and bolts of what the republicans stand for and what they do. >> why wait until the election? is that the only thing republicans care about is getting elected? they could care less in dealing with energy, or -- >> we are not in power. we could come up with the best solutions and the democrats throw us to the side. >> nonsense! deal with the problems as a party or get out of the building. >> what about the votes? >> i don't care about votes. this is a debate about ideas. if you have a series of ideas, i guarantee there are republicans
and democrats that have rational thought if you actually care about america and you want to solve the problems. >> we do care about america? >> don't, you don't. whether it's fear from the right or guilt from the left, you are all eating this country from the gut, and it's got to come to a conclusion. hang on, brad. karen, what can the center left do to really seize the fact that the conservatives left the road for free choice and the road for fair market competition and the road for fair play by engaging in too big to fail. and ron wyden seems to be doing something that is working nicely for him. >> the idea is the challenge of the middle and the center. i think we are a center country, and i don't believe we are
center right. i think we can do a better job articulating values and policies. let's take the health care debate. we are trying to put forward a policy that would create competition in the marketplace. that's supposed to be, you know, a part of our society and our system. it's supposed to be an american value, actually, dylan. >> exactly. >> part of the problem is we become so divided we forgot we are all americans and it's supposed to be about america and not holding on to power. and what is interesting in the value voters summit, and john mccain tried that strategy and to go far to the right in the primaries and then come back to the center, and then the problem was when he tried to come back to the center, the moderates and center did not believe him, and he lost support, a couple of my own family, moderates that previously had great respect for him. so you have to stand up for what
you believe in from the beginning, and not try to tack one way and then tack back the other way. that's what you saw president obama do inconsistently. >> i don't think you have to wait for an election to get somebody to deal with health care or southbound something like that. >> i think it's a sham and lame excuse to say the reason you cannot put ideas forth is because you are not in power. >> you know better. the american people smoke last november. they gave you the house and the senate with high majorities. they gave you the presidency. even with the high majorities and presidency, you can't get a thing done. it's the democrats. >> these are not right or left issues. this country has broken systems in health systems and broken systems that go across our energy resource management, and the demands from the american people is not to play left or
right, but the demand from the american people as i see it as a journalists right now is to demand that the politicians deal with the systemic problems. i got to go. >> that will be changed when the republicans -- >> how about ideas, brad. >> we don't need to worry about it until you guys win. this is nonsense. alex, what is going on? i will chill things out and get to other news. ann curry sat down with an exclusive interview with mahmoud ahmadinejad, who is speaking at the united nations next week on the very same day as president obama. it's his first interview since the violent iranian elections in june. it comes at a critical time for his country and the united states. >> iran now agreed to negotiate in what could lead in the first significant talks between iran and the united states in nearly 30 years. what do you want from the united states? >> translator: today a new arrangement should be put in
place based on new principles so that the war is directed towards peace and tranquillity. we have always believed in talking, in negotiating. that is our logic. nothing has changed. >> you can watch the entire interview with mahmoud ahmadinejad this sunday at 1:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. yesterday was a deadly day for soldiers in afghanistan. a u.s. service member and a canadian soldier died in separate roadside bombs in the second part of the country. this is the latest string of taliban attacks. and six italian soldiers died in kabul. and then the state house of representatives passed a bill allowing the governor to fill kennedy's seat immediately rather than waiting for a special election in january. right now it's scheduled for
january 19th. thank you, alex. we are back after a quick break from the "morning meeting." house speaker nancy pelosi concerned about political rhetoric. and glenn beck rather concerned as well. fear is a heck of a great way to control people, but is it the best way to make decisions? we are back with the fear factor after this. let friskies indoor wet cat food unlock the freshness...
a big talker today. i tease you. house speaker, nancy pelosi, choked up as she voiced concern that rhetoric is on the road to violence. take a listen. >> i have concerns about some of the language that is being used because i saw -- saw this myself in the late '70s in san francisco, this kind of rhetoric was very frightening, and it gave -- it created a climate in which violence took place. so i wish that we all would again, curve our enthusiasm in some of the statements that are made. >> that one hit me with a little bit of fear and guilt. karen, are you there? >> i am here. >> i was trying to see if boehner because going to play.
but we will just look at pictures of him. you have a context of what pelosi's fears are. put this in context in the past and what you have seen, and quickly? >> i think what she was speaking about what in the '70s, and her office corrected that. i believe that hate speech and rhetoric has gotten to a point that enables the fringe element and gives them a little permission to act out. i think that boehner's comments, i know we did not get to hear them here. unfortunately, he brought it back to the issues and did not really speak to the level of the rhetoric. he did talk about people who have fears about what is going on in our country. i do think that there are people in this country who do see the country changing. we are changing economically and ethn ethnically, and for some people that may be scary.
there may be a tinge of racism in that, and maybe not. but our leaders have a responsibility, frankly, to speak with that and come up with ideas that help us move forward and not stroke the fires like you see glenn make and lou dobbs. >> we also have apparently the boehner sound. >> americans are saying stop. they are scared to death that the country that they grew up in is not going to be the country that their kids and grandkids get to grow up in. >> having done that, i would like to move to another subject, because this is a fast-moving segment theoretically. one man known for extreme talk, glenn beck, and is glenn beck bad for america? he talks a lot about fear. >> there are tough times ahead, but i know there are people right now in washington, d.c. that are afraid. you know what? i am afraid. i become more and more afraid every day that i am on television.
>> what do you think is a better way to manipulate people, fear or guilt? >> i think that fear. that's actually the karl rove play book. and look, beck is a despicable person. i think cover of their magazine. i think it's pretty clear it's about taking down the president and ratings. >> guilt over fear, thorks right? >> bu fear for ratings is more despicable, actually. >> fear for power? >> and going back to ratings. you would never do that, dylan. >> we're going to use hope for ratings. >> there you go. >> in maine, supporters in an effort to overturn the gay marriage law launched their first tv gay rights this week. see if they get their way. >> there will be real consequences for legal experts and predict a floot of lawsuits against individuals and small
businesses. >> you best be afraid. >> yeah. >> as long as you're afraid, they will do whatever you want, right, is that the plan, karen? >> in this case, it's fear of lawsuits is what they are using. look. it's disappointing this is creating so much fear. people used to be afraid of interracial marriage and now it's the norm. maybe we will get there with gay marriage. >> first, we solve the fear on the right and then the guilt on the left and see if we can get something done. thank you, karen. >> then we will fix the broken system. >> exactly. return. "saturday night live's" update. toure is here with the latest after this. announcer: "it looks like nothing else on the road right now," proclaims "gq" magazine. did you see that? the interior "positively oozes class," raves "car magazine." "slick and sensuous," boasts "the washington times."
>> every night. too much. dylan, it was a monster night on the ub. "snl" gang is back. world of timing because the world is going cuckoo. >> it is a hostage situation. we have a crisis. >> we do! >> civil discourse is flying out the window so they are not ready for prime time players and jumped into the joe wilson situation explaining it's much bigger than we originally thought. >> he is going to say this. the prereform i'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally, okay? now, when he says that, all of us, all of us at once, together! are going to yell "you lie!" got that? >> good stuff. then joe wilson goes to the bathroom when they decide let's not do it and he alone doesn't get the message p.m. i love the story when his wife says who is the nut who said,
"you lie!" ? >> that was me, honey. it proved a little more entertaining when we expected when host paula abdul showed humor not often seen from her. she came out dressed like ellen degeneres who replaced her on "american idol." >> all kidding aside, nothing but love, ellen and i wish you the best of luck and congratulations on your new gig! >> good for her. if you can laugh at yourself you can get through the toughest of days, right, dylan? >> sure. >> she looks good. >> she looks fantastic. >> this country is going to need a little laughter the next few years which is why we got you around because you're a very funny man. still ahead in the second hour of the "morning meeting," president obama overexposed and going on a media blitz this weekend talking on all of the sunday shows and letterman on monday.
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good morning to you. how are you? welcome to the "morning meeting." friday morning. forget gang of six. what about the new gang of four? while most republicans and democrats for that matter are bogged down in all sorts of bart san bickering and spitball fights there may be a group of senators serious about getting health care reform done in this country. they may ready to tackle it and all obama all the time. the president coming on all five sunday morning talk shows, plus david letterman. will he use being media blitz to refine and define his health care message? will he complete that sentence if you like what you have, you
can keep it, but, if you don't, you can change it. that is the part that is being left out and that is a problem. malpractice lawsuits costing americans millions. the white house has a plan they say to crack down on frivolous lawsuits but does cutting down on lawsuits actually help reduce medical expenses for all of snus some? some surprising statistics may not be the case. a judge threatening sanctions against an attorney who keeps pressing thee lawsuits in court. that lawyer joins us live later. it's 10:00 a.m. pull up a chair and join the "morning meeting." hopes for a bipartisan health care bill alive amid the criticism from the right and left over senator max because cuss reform plan. two democrats, one republican and one independent vowing to
put party aside and craft a better health care package. chuck todd on the beat with the details. hi, chuck. >> dylan, look. i think we now see the end game. we now see how this bill is going to become a law. you see olympia snowe and put up up with lieberman and nelson and mccaskill. all of them tells us a couple of things. number one, snowe is in play. we sort of known that and sort have seen it but this is her one public way of doing it. second, is that the democrats are going to need her, the president is going to need her to keep all of the democrats together. but take a listen to what olympia snowe said yesterday about her openness to the bill. >> obviously, i'm a republican but, you know, i'd like to have more republicans. >> you'd like to, but do you have to some. >> well, no. i'm going to support the right policy. i think that is what guides me and governs me. it always has.
and i think the right policy will garner the votes. >> so as i said the end game is here. we see -- i think we all know how the movie is going to end. the question is what is going to be in the final bill? the movie is going to end and snowe is going to support it and democrats looking like they are coming together. but are they going to do to satisfy both snowe -- keeping snowe on board and keeping those that are in favor of the public option happy? how that compromise is done. is it that trigger? and then how robust is the trigger? all of this stuff. but ultimately, i think sometimes we can play up the drama. we see out how this movie is going to end and pretty good day as far as the white house is concerned. >> karen finney, to put up on chuck todd is saying, the very least, a road to the passage of legislation and now the question is does the wyden choice amendment make it and the public option make it end? it feels those are the two big
pieces that get a lot of conversation and also generate a healthy amount of debate and health insurance doesn't want full competition or the public option and a lot of people probably want both. >> no, i think that's exactly right but i think those are the kind of details and chuck is right. the baucus bill is in a draft form and looks like we will get support on. it's pretty clear something is going to pass and we will get health care reform but agree we can see the end of this movie but i feel this is part one. part two going into the 2010 electio elections, how soon will the american people feel like something has changed? that is going to be critical whether or not people can campaign on this in 2010. secondly, chuck, he i wonder if you'd a i -- agree on this. who does the job of selling what is in the final package. if democrats don't get out there ahead of republicans and convince theme ps this nair interest we could see this flipping back on us and
republicans using it against democrats in 2010. >> dylan, to jump in here. karen is absolutely right. this is the next game here as far as the politics of all this is. we saw how the democrats basically won this fight for the stimulus bill but lost the pr battle. the fact is they've lost that pr battle. poll after poll shows that the country doesn't see what the stimulus bill did. they don't see it as a benefit yet. maybe they will. but so far, the republicans won that pr war. there are two things that karen brought up. i agree. i think the implementation of this thing once they get something pass, how does it get implemented that make people feel like they have change for the better. >> two things i'll say there. absent a real exchange everybody can choose from so people like us or anybody else that would want to look at all of our health care options as congress is able to you would feel that immediately and everybody would be able to see that. that is a digital platform. then, obviously, the public
option. a mandate, they have to do more and they are going to feel like they are not getting that much for a while unless you get real choice or a public option from what i can see, chuck. >> not just that. i mean, look. a lot of major companies are going to, you know, what is going to happen is a lot of people that work, that have insurance, are going to hear from their companies. they are going to hear from the corporate hr departments in ten and 11:00 saying we're going to reconfigure things here a little bit and shop around because it will become a good time to shop around because private insurers will respond to the new rules and there will be different things. how people react to that. some people will react favorably and some people will react unfavorably because maybe they like what they have. >> brad, if you accept chuck todd's analysis that there is a road to legislation to kind of come back to some of your comments which speak to the democrats' ability to drive the legislation one way or another particularly if they can get a republican on the board.
if republicans accept a road to legislation how do the republicans push on the legislation to put their view on it on a way that is constructive to that party and the country? >> we've already told the democrats, told the white house what would be acceptable to the republicans and if the president is right, right now, there's 80% agreement my 'tis to the president and the democrats in congress why don't you go with 80%? tell the more radicals in your party and let's get tort reform and portability and let's let people sell and buy across state lines. let's get rid of fraudness management and abuse in the health kir care we already provide. here is the hidden message here. the democrats trigger for legislation to take effect no matter what that legislation is in tlen 2013 has to create
mischief what the implementation will be. the democrats will be smrt smarter to move up. they don't want a record to run on whatever health care is passed. >> brad makes an interesting point, karen. which is there is all of this talk of the health reform and without real competition and a real exchange for everybody to look at suddenly you can logon and say who is the cheapest plan. everybody gets to do that. not just the freelance graphic artist or some kid out of school but all people absent a real impact like that you would think the democrats are vulnerable to all sorts of attacks because of the time lines and the mandates. >> look. i don't disagree with that. that's why i say i think it's important when the final bill is passed there should be a political calculation people need to feel something has changed for the better fairly quickly. back in the '90s initially the clinton pan they were trying to get it passed in six months. obviously, that didn't happen.
people need to feel when they get this information from various insurance companies there will be confusion potentially. how this is rolled out to people so they understand what happened and how it affects them and what they need to do is critical. >> i don't see -- affiliate carrying on if you don't deliver real choice to everybody, i think it would be a political disaster. >> even if you have choice and you don't know it. >> right. that's why you have to create a choice platform and you have to sell that platform day one, even if it won't be implemented for some time or people will feel like they got a bunch of new rules and not much else. one last piece of business i want to take care of. brad, i called you an idiot which is totally inappropriate on my part because i think very highly of you and i lost my temper there and i apologize and i enjoy having you in this conversation. i'm sorry, brad. alex, what else is going on in the world? >> i don't know. you call me a idiot all the
time. new details in the murder of yale graduate student annie le. jeff rossen is live in in haven with more details. >> you have ray clark in a high security prison in connecticut. it's a state prison, charged with murder now. we're learning more about his life as an animal lab technician here at yale university. he worked, according to police, with the victim annie le who was a grad student. they all worked together. he basically was in charge of cleaning out the animal cages, moving animals from one experiment to another. a coworker overnight has e-mailed nbc news who knows both ray clark and annie le and told us, a, there is no romantic relationship between them. in fact, in his coworkers' words, they would be shocked if he even knew that she was engaged. she had such a superficial relationship. police have confirmed to us there was no relationship. and also told us this. i want to quote from this e-mail
from the coworker. ray has always been very controlling over the miscellaneous room. that is the room where they work. often bothering people to the point of damn near harassment. last thing i knew, annie got a message from him saying her cages were dirty. and so we're told investigators are looking into that as a possible motive. they haven't told us on the record is there a motive or they know of a motive but we are told they are looking into this as a possible motive. of course when you have an e-mail like that close to a time when somebody ends up dead, it's something they are not end up looking into and that is what is happening right now. >> thank you, jeff. investigators will dig behind the home of a kidnapper and his wife. two cadaver dogs apparently picked up a scent in the house of phillip and nancy garrido. we are getting pictures showing how jaycee and her daughters lived. look at this. building inspectors took she's
shots of the house interior. it has piled up furniture and papers strewn all over and then in the kitchen we were showing you the pots and the dishes all piled up. police in eastern washington looking for a killer committed to a mental institution who escaped during a group outing. 47-year-old phillip arnold paul escaped during a field trip to county fair. he was part of a 31-patient group outing and only 11 supervisors present. paul slashed an elderly woman's throat in 1987 and soaked her body in gasoline to throw off the search dogs and gury bury the woman in her flower garden. he was charged with mental insanity and committed to that mental institute. i know you love me so when you call me an idiot, it's okay. i want to clear that up. >> dylan called allison an idiot. i have never done that. >> i'm going to get us out of this. bye! >> enough of these spitball
fights. my goodness. taking the money. still to come this hour of the "morning meeting," president obama's weekend media blitz, not only appear on all of the sunday major talk shows but the sole guest on monday's late show with david letterman. smart strategy or oversaturation? what can he do to make this work for him and not against him? [ h] ♪ today ♪ must have been one of the strangest days ♪ everyone may face the same uncertainty. ♪ some would say that you won't find ♪ protecting yourself, however, requires good decisions. find strength and stability with mass mutual, a company owned by its policyholders.
couple of days. the president takes a series of five, no less than five one-on-one interviews with the sunday talk show hosts including nbc's "meet the press" and then monday he is going to return and goes to the late show where he is the only scheduled guest appropriately so as the president. the president's push follows a new poll on his approval rate and here are the numbers from q research which finds the following. that is down nine points from february. it has been lower, though. 58% say he has the ability to get things down, down from 70% in february. it's about -- >> with all due respect, look at what the numbers say. that's like watching the chicago bulls at the peak of michael jordan's career and being worried that michael jordan only scored 28 points that night instead of 44. are you kidding me? george bush would pay a king's ransom for the worse number on that board. >> good point.
>> the ultimate liability for him, though, is whether he will overexpose himself or ultimately received as a puppet for one political constituency in his case the deep left and whether he can actually capture that representation of change and systems repair because there's so many broken ones in this country or whether he becomes yet another puppet. we want to bring in author of "what were they thinking." and karen finney, democratic strategist here. steve, your advice if you were to sit with the president this morning and say, listen, we're about to do all of these interviews. this will be the key to your success the next three days. >> here is what i would say. part of the problem is this president you have to go back. when you got out of the box there was confusion in your message. you didn't handle the press conferences very well. we're talking about one of the greatest communicators of all time on the teleprompter. he can't act as if he tried this thing before. i believe five shows is too many over the weekend and i believe the letterman thing is too much and i believe the president has
to say, look, this is the difference and if he can't distinguish between what he has been doing and where he is going, while those numbers are better than george bush's, they can't be here to get 60 votes in the senate. finally, you have to know who your audience is. yes, it's the public but the 60 senators frankly he should spend more time and charm and personality on the 60 votes because that is the key. >> that was an analysis at 538.com where the president needs to focus on nailing the key senators to his plan whether it's olympia snowe or whatever it may be and that is where health care reform lives and dies to have charm events. your thoughts? >> remember part of the leverage you have on members of the congress, they're voters. as you raise the stakes on these members of congress against voting against a bill that a majority of americans support, that's a very important factor. that is something that only this president can do. >> here is the problem.
here is the problem. i agree with you in theory but when the numbers are where they are -- >> but the numbers are coming back up. >> look. when the democrats look in those districts and see a sigma jort of their people are saying the public option, the government taker, yes. the republicans have totally switched this thing around and twisted it. the problem is the president is losing that battle. if you say go to people and then you tell me how they move them. >> i don't think -- but sorry. i don't know that we have an accurate picture. we saw the town hall meetings but in terms of district by district i think more people support the president's plan than oppose it and we have seen the numbers going back up since his speech to congress and that is a very important factor. again, i think his ability to communicate directly to the american people and get their support does put more pressure on members of congress to not do the political thing but to actually do what the american people want. >> what will be interest toing me is whether he'll go down that pro competition road, because
the republicans have chosen basically to try to distort and mischaracterize what is being proposed as something that actually isn't there. they say, government takeover. nobody is proposing government takeover. it's a lie. and the president has an opportunity to say you may have heard this and that but the truth of the matter is we want to create more choice and more competition and more opportunity and a more american structure that doesn't protect special interests and after we've done that we can entertain whether we need to expand our already existing 46% public health care whether it's the v.a. or the medicare and we'll worry about that. if he comes with a strong pro competition message and opportunity i think he could put the republicans and everybody else on their heels. >> i think that's right. that's why that trust worthiness number is so important. the american people trust this president so if they see him saying, look, what the republicans are telling you is a lie and here is in my plan and
here is what we are going to do and not do and that is critical in this state. >> to pretend there is choice for people when the reality is there isn't and that is the issue. >> he is good about not doing that. that is a lot of his whole style of leadership we don't have to make false choices. we can do the right thing without being drawn into that. >> quickly. >> he has to put a price tag on this and honest what this will cost. >> for sure. >> if he does that he gets point for honesty in my book. >> why do the american taxpayer have to write checks when the government has yet to command real competition and real markets for health insurance? until they create competition. >> i am, too. >> it's not catch-22. we have anti-competitive practices inside health insurance. you come to the taxpayer after you fix the industry. >> the problem is most people believe when you get the government involved it's something they don't want. yes, i believe it creates competition. >> what are you talking about? >> he failed to convince people.
>> you're saying referees are not desirable in a basketball game? come out with a chain saw and chop your head off? >> i'm talking about communication and messages. we agree. this is about execution with your message connecting with your audience and it's easier to be against something than force something for the republicans. the president is trying to do the right thing. >> as long as we break it up, i think most people in american are favor of getting rigged of it. we have to take a break. karen, thank you very much. the president will be on david gregory' show this sunday on "meet the press." check your local listings for times. we are plugging into politics next here at the "morning meeting." how would you like to dine with sarah palin? a meal with the former alaska governor is up for sale on ebay. it is said to be for charity but wait till you hear what the tab is. it's coming up on msnbc. (announcer) time brings new wisdom
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alex is plugging into politics. >> let's talk about elizabeth warren, unwith of your favorites. >> actually tells the truth and wants to try to improve the system. >> you love her. would you love her as a politician? >> absolutely. >> she didn't deny she would be considering ted kennedy's seat. she says, look, i have a job. she does have a job but she spoke earlier this morning and when asked would you consider, she didn't deny it. >> i know a blog was written basically trying to nominate her and drafting memo saying, listen, somebody needs to step in to deal with the banks and somebody needs to step in to deal with health care. >> right. >> i think somebody on fox business asked her about this. >> let's hear it in her words. let's listen. >> if they appoint you, would you accept it, liz warren? >> i have a job right now.
i got to go back and teach my classes and try to keep up with comp.. you guys have got me working full-time and then some. >> i didn't hear an absolute no there, liz. >> you're pushy guy! >> running for senator, are you kidding me? she is brilliant and the cradle of this country in oklahoma and an american story and she actually wants to make the country better as opposed to perpetrate systemic theft which is pretty good. >> she has to go up against the front-runner at this point, martha oakley. let's go to sarah palin. if you want to have dinner with her, you have to pay a lot of money. >> how much? >> right now, looking at about 40 grand. back and forth of five bidders the last 12 or so bids on ebay and started at 39 grand and change right now. it closes at the end of the day. >> i think i forgot my wallet.
>> there is talk about the nfl, you know? a little bit, the big stadium out in dallas? huge one. do you know the screen, do you know how much that screen weighs, the new one? >> first, how big is it? >> i think something like 25,000 of the regular 40-inch screens to be in that stadium. i think it weighs about the same size -- about as much as a 747 plane. can you imagine that? how did they get that thing up there? that is rhetorical. >> kanye or those, they have one of those at home hanging out. pip my rise, pip my crib. the size of a 747, a tv. coming up in the next half hour of the "morning meeting" dealing with medical malpractice lawsuits. how do you reform medical malpractice and does doing so reduce medical costs?
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care reform. the administration announced first step on thursday and alex is here to break it down. >> initially the white house is putting the burden on the states offering up about 25 million dollars in federal grants to get the ideas flowing. now, the government is on the lookout for better ways to improve doctor practices and cut down on malpractice lawsuits and cut down on the mistakes that leads to them and here is health and human services comecket kathleen sebelius on it. >> lots of states have bits and pieces of the puzzle. there are states with screening panels and states with reviewing process and some volume mediation efforts and we think this is an opportunity to not only look at what has had a proven effect, lowering preventable errors, increasing patient safety, which is the number one goal, improving communications and lowering costs. >> overall the price tag for doctors is up to $200,000 a year
for malpractice insurance for some doctors but sebelius indicated the scary part is the human cost. it estimates as many as a hundred thousand americans die every year from medical mistakes. >> no one wants to have a loved one be harmed by a medical mistake and feel like they have no recourse. also, no one wants to feel the easiest way to make money is by filing lawsuits other than opposed to creating something of value. it is a complicated problem and certainly fixable as we have these laboratories that are opening up across the country to try to do it to help us navigate it lal bit, dr. nancy snyderman joins me on the set and charles clifford ford who fights medical malpractice cases. how do you balance and how do you evaluate with impact of tort reform? let's assume we have effective mechanism for tort reform.
let's assume we can do that. if we had real tort reform, what would the impact on costs be, however you want to define real tort reform and how would be manageable for the understand anxiety somebody had a loved one is harmed in a fashion by a mistake by a doctor. >> there will always be bad cases. but a bad outcome does not mean egregious behavior on the part of the doctor but i don't think we understand it. i think people go in and everybody wants perfect and sometimes bad things happen. however, there should be penalty for bad care. >> how do you do that? >> malpractice prices are crazy. >> how do you balance for the -- people accept the need for tort reform and the penalty. >> if there was a need we would have it. >> i want to know how. >> california, indiana, both examples. >> how do they do it?
>> there are tribunals. if you have a complaint against a doctor they will file it and a panel will decide whether it has merit or if it doesn't and go forward. there may be handling cash to the patient but not a multi, multimillion dollar suit such that the ones that really have merit, yes, they go on but it can't be this i don't like what i have throw a painting against the wall which is what we have now. >> a system to the model you see in a number of industries, the sporting industry uses it and arbitration model where you basically go outside the jury system and say we're going to create a tribunal that will resolve this thing. >> cuts down on costs and people get their day in court. >> when the president talks about testing these things out is that what he is talking about? >> no. i think the president waffled. he knows those are out there. you have to say these are states where it works and let's talk about a national system rather
than a hodge-podge. >> counselor clifford, walk us through your sense of working with a tribunal or a panel of some kind to resolve medical malpractice as opposed to the current model. >> there's certainly a need for a fair review of a case before it's ever filed. for a long time we heard the debate about frivolous lawsuits. in illinois, the president hems state, we have a requirement of a certificate of merit which means that a lawsuit cannot be filed against a confident board certified qualified doctor says i've looked at this case and there is a reasonable basis upon which to file the lawsuit. you can solve the malpractice problem like they have in california or indiana if you want to take people's rights away. in the state of indiana, you could be a guy making a million dollars a year and they kill you on the operating table and your family, at best, is going to get $1.25 million for the entire case and then they are going to fight you about it. in california, they have caps on
damages which our president specifically said take away people's rights and they've had caps on damages for 30 years in california and never raised it. so those are not the solutions. filing cases -- >> i want to get dr. snyderman to respond to that. again, i don't know anybody who is in favor of allowing lawyers to willy-nilly chase doctors and it makes sense to me that doctors would be defensive and understandably angry about the fact that the cost of running their business and so much of their time is spent didleing with stupe things as oppose to do a doctor. some people want a measure of protection if the one out of a million doctors drunk that day and chops off the wrong leg. that is overly dramatic. >> you keep going to the source of where physicians need to step up to the plate. we do a very poor job placing ourselves for one simple reason. if i think you're a lousy doctor and i can prove it and i take a
move in my community to get you out, you can turn around and sue me for restrain of trade. there's no protecting me for routing out the bad guys. >> how would you fix that? >> well, our academic society, the american academy of fill in the blank, pediatrics surgery. >> sure. >> you have to allow the economic societies to have some teeth and we have to be able to stick our necks out and get the bad guys out. we all know in every community who they are. >> they also need to be afraid to withdraw privileges. >> exactly right. >> what is what you are talking about and shouldn't be afraid to do it in the case of a bad doctor but the real problem i never hear the medical community talking about. in 2005 there was a health care bill here in illinois posing a massive tort reform on appeal to our supreme court but immediately after that, the insurance industry in a public forum here said we will not lower health care premiums to the doctors, no matter what. >> mr. clifford, i'm out of time.
i think there is a second conversation which is do overall medical expenses go down after tort reform or not and may life better for doctors and may make a less hostile universe but it sd it ultimately drive down overall costs? maybe it does and maybe it doesn't and we'll do this next week. we'll talk costs next week. >> look at px texas. malpractice premiums and health care costs are up in texas and massive health care tort reform. >> next week is next week and i look forward to having that conversation with you and the doctor. now off to alex. >> new word from aides to house speaker nancy pelosi today regarding her emotional morning about the increasingly heated political climate out there. >> i have concerns about some of the language that is being used because i saw -- i saw this myself in the late '70s in san francisco, this kind of -- of
rhetoric. it was very frightening. >> that was yesterday and kelly o'donnell is our capitol hill correspondent and she joins us now what she is hearing today. good morning, kelly. >> good morning, alex. with all of the interests given the emotion comparison the speaker used, i reached out to top officials this morning to see what they were thinking about the attention about her remarks. they said the speaker wants to emphasize that she thinks that everyone should exercise appropriate responsibility when they are giving out their views and she wasn't trying to single out any individual or any group, but one them stressed she had seen from her own experience that strong rhetoric, heated words can sometimes lead in a direction no one would want. we've also seen over time when politics and sometimes there is great attention when any public figure shows emotion. i was interested to find out what they were thinking today. the emphasis they wanted to make that everybody should be using responsibility. i.
alex? >> a good point to make. here is something you might find tough to swallow. after two years of coughing, you will find this hard to believe. a north carolina man found out he had a piece of plastic wendy's spoon stuck in his lung! john manly's only explanation eating or drinking too quickly. >> you eat fast and you move on. that's why they call it fast food! i was so happy. i wanted to hug the guy and kiss him because i could breathe! >> can you believe that? manly's doctor found the spoon when they stuck a small camera down his throat. hurts to think about that! >> that's why i don't go to the doctor. they stick things in you and looking around. get i away from me! >> but if had you a spoon? dylan, wouldn't you want to get that out? a big oops here. a distribution for op oprah's latest book. this is why you keep them under lock and key.
september 18th was supposed to be the release date but this mysterious box arrived and said do not open until september 18th. it turned out to be the book. it was ung intentionally leaked thursday from the book distribution company. they are always hush, hush, hush. almost spy level, dylan. kind of thing they don't let that out at all. after thursday's leak, apparently angela depaul say we don't comment on advanced speculation. >> they sent the book. >> they did and it will be a best seller. always are. over 13 million children considered poor by the official poverty standard. this group tends to suffer lower test scores and rise in high school dropout rates and high unattendance and poor health. msnbc will air a special
focusing on these problems featuring dr. bill cosby and moderated by msnbc political an left michelle bernard. cosby talked about the goal of the program on "today." >> you just had an 11-year-old kid on who spoke and said do you believe in me? i believe in me. it's simple. yet, people don't go about behaving that way towards their children. >> "about our children" airs live in washington this sunday. it's about health, education, parenting and all good stuff and should be a must see tv. >> looking forward to it. thank you, alex. much more ahead. still another lawsuit challenging the president's place of birth. tossed out of court again. of course, president born in america. is the death of a birther move finally upon us? after the break we will talk to the de facto leader of that movement after this. (music plays)
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birther movement dealt a blow here. another lawsuit claiming the president was not born in america tossed out of court. >> here is how it played out. in georgia a federal judge called the so-called birther case frivolous and said it presented no credible evidence. in this suit an army sergeant hopes to be sent to iraq. she claims it made her deployment order unconstitutional. the leader of the birther movement represented the army doctor and tates has filed several unsuccessful lawsuits around the country challenging president obama. >> thank you very much. with us is the attorney from california. what is your plan from here, miss tates? >> i wish for once you people would give truthful information. >> which people are you referring to? are you referring to me or who are you referring to when you
say "you people"? >> both of you. you and your co-host. >> since -- >> can i respond? >> i want you to talk to me. so tell me what i've said that is wrong. >> okay. the only thing that you stated that one case was dismissed. you didn't tell your listeners that judge in california stated this is a valid case, it is going to trial on the merits. the date for trial is set for january the 26th and it's in central district of california, santa ana division, judge david o'carter. >> sloo understood. >> 411 west fourth street. we have trial january 26th where barack obama will need to show up in court and show all of his information proving to my
clients 48 plaintiffs high ranks of member and ten state representatives and ambassador by what right is he sitting in the white house. this is a major victory! it never has happened! >> this is not a monologue. i will let you answer but you will let me ask you questions or you will not come on this show, k? >> that's your trend. >> this is a new plan. i talk and you talk. you don't just come on tv and talk and i won't do it either. now, the first judge said you are basically wasting people's time. why do you think it is that the one judge to the case that you're pushing forward with, which i think is quite interesting, what do you think the judge that is dismissing you is dismissing you for and why do you think the other judges indulging the prosecution or shouldn't even use the word indulging because that includes a bias from me, but allows you to proceed with the prosecution. what is the difference in the judges? >> because the judge in
california, david o'carter is a former marine. he really believes in constitution. and the judge -- >> hold on. let's stop there, though. what is it in the constitution that you cite that you believe allows you to continue to file lawsuits prosecuting the president of the united states for not having been born here when this has been reviewed and reviewed and reviewed and reviewed and reviewed and reviewed and all of the evidence continues to show that he was born here? at what point do you think to yourself, hang on. i'm either acting a a political operative. maybe go to the beach or do something else. a point where you're acting out of political interests or you're wasting your days. >> i mean, how can you lie to your viewers like this? >> where is my lie? no, stop. where is my lie? >> okay. nobody in this country, not one single person has ever seen a hospital birth certificate that would show the name of the
hospital, name of attending physician, any signature, nobody. you have not seen it. >> the thing is the genius thing about people like you is you like to accuse others of being a lier. >> i'm telling the truth. >> as a way to cut a boulevard so you can blajer on a bunch of lies. >> you tell me shrash where is the name of the hospital? you tell me! show me the name of the hospital! >> i think i admire your passion and i'm hopeful after you're done with the birthers that maybe you can direct it towards helping us restore free and fair competition for everybody in america and not just play political spitball fighting. thank you very much. back here with the take-away here after this. ( folk music playing ) kids who don't eat breakfast aren't getting the nutrition they need to keep their bodies strong. ( bell rings ) a nutritious start to the day is essential. that's why carnation instant breakfast essentials supplies all the nutrients of a complete breakfast.
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free markets and free competition in a way that is real. no false choices from the left and no false choices from the right and enough of the fear and enough of the guilt. we have clear problems in this country and there are clear solutions for them. let's engage in conversation that actually tries to do that and i'm spore to preach, but the spiteball fighting it doesn't make sense to me why we bother with a beautiful country and so many people that work hard to attack people on both sides of the room when there are 200 people in the middle of the room who desperately need an improvement in all of our systems in this country. we'll take a break. alex witt will take care of you right after this. watching your cholesterol. now there's new heart health advantage from bayer. its non-aspirin formula contains phytosterols, which may reduce the risk of heart disease... by lowering bad cholesterol. new heart health advantage from bayer.
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