Skip to main content

tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  September 15, 2010 12:00am-1:00am EDT

12:00 am
also protecting that charlie rangel will hold onto his house seat with if it holds a majority in a six-way race. 56% reporting he is at 52%. a remarkable election year. all that was missing tonight was the popcorn, but i will have that now. stay with us. good night.
12:01 am
whatever else voters were doing today in delaware, new hampshire and new york, they were not blowing kisses at barack obama. of all the surprises and primary elections, nothing tops what happened tonight. this, the last major primary night, has produced the most stunning upset of the year. a lot of examples yet of anti-washington and anti-establishment fever that has gripped much of this republican party. in the state of delaware, christine o'donnell, who just a
12:02 am
week ago was considered more than an obscure party shocked the republican political establishment by beating mike castle. 100% of the precincts. 53% of the vote. until perhaps a day or two ago, republicans have every reason to assume that castle would win the nomination and cruise to victory. that would have given the gop a pickup of the same recently held by joe biden. all bets are off. in new hampshire and, leading former state attorney general kelly. a race that has been getting closer by the minute with 35% reporting now lafontaine has 40%. 48% of the front runner before tonight. in new hampshire, the establishment candidate in this case.
12:03 am
in top senate races by the extreme right. two more races. in new york state, a fringe candidate has win-mack the governor. with 75% of precincts reporting he had 65% current 36% for rick who lost just a couple years ago to hillary clinton. he begins this race as an underdog. a new york city and battled charles rangel has survived the toughest race of his life been a large field of democratic candidates. he should be a shoo-in in this district. results may have profound implications for whether republicans can win the senate. nate silver says winds by the
12:04 am
tea party candidates would cut the chances. we will see about that. joining me now, jonathan martin and broke brower. jonathan, i am stunned all day today we heard castle's got it. they know she is trouble and have been running negative ads about her. instead she has win-mack big tonight. >> they are very, very concerned for what this means for taking back the senate. >> doesn't this show the anger is out there to help them in november? >> the silver lining is this,
12:05 am
the energy they are facing, they are feeling themselves is going to turn on the dems. >> the anger in the intramural is going to be unleashed on the party they really hate and the president they hate. we talk politics every day trying to get this show together. here you are on air. you know that state. you are a delaware guy. what happened? >> delaware republicans have been voting for mike cassel statewide for 30 years without a hitch he wins 65%, 60% n the 50s, governor, congress. this, shock is the word i have heard so many times today. >> are there hidden local factors we didn't see coming in from the outside? >> it looks like there was a broader anti-establishment movement in the race to replace him in the house. michelle rollins versus gary
12:06 am
erkhart. >> here is christine o'donnell. she seems young and new to politics. a lot of enthusiasm. wow. here is christine o'donnell who reminds me of an east coast sarah palin. make your own judgment. >> a lot of people have already said that we can't win the general election. i know. it is those same -- yes, we can. >> yes, we can! yes, we can! >> yes, we will! >> yes, we will. i like that. yes, we will. it is those same so-called experts who said we had no chance of winning the primary.
12:07 am
it will be hard work but we can win. and if those same people who fought against me work just as hard for me we will win. >> you know, jonathan, you are talking about the pattern across the country. you can criticize a candidate like that as being new to the game, young, too enthusiastic, attractive in her personality, likability. we will have to see how people respond to her. coons is like the bloomberg of delaware. >> the biggest most popular of the state. >> chris, in primaries, there is a big difference between primaries and a general election. this was a close primary meaning only republicans can vote. this fall you have democrats, republicans, independents all voting. very different scenario.
12:08 am
>> i know that. isn't it possible that what we are seeing is an energy level on the right that will not be matched on the left? >> yes. >> democrats anecdotely are frustrated things haven't turned out the way they want for barack obama. they may sit on their hand and the republicans will run the general election. >> is that going to mean eight states or ten states. >> right now you know the fight in the country has gotten down to, sure n the state of delaware it is going to be close. california is close for barbara boxer. patty murray is in trouble in washington state. russ feingold is in trouble mr. perfect in washington. and the senate leader can't shake sharron angle. ran rand paul is up by seven.
12:09 am
all those states are breaking into the lead. >> that is the other "e" word. establishment and enthusiasm. people in delaware thought the turnout was 30,000. they had almost 60,000 people vote in this primary. christine o'donnell benefited from enthusiasm the cassel people never saw coming. this is a rejection of a guy they know. >> let's talk about robert bennett in utah, thrown out the door. charlie crist rejected by his own party, arlen specter had to leave his part. the media market, philadelphia is the delaware media market. arlen specter was beaten in his own party and then the democratic party. >> arlen specter said he didn't
12:10 am
want his record judged by republican primary voters. that is what mike castle had happen. >> 30 years of public service defeated not by the people of delaware, but 60,000 people. >> castle woke up to specter's nightmare. >> arlen is saying -- well, there is no victory. there is no country for old men. a lot of this is sell by date. these candidates like castle, specter, bennett, maybe barbara boxer have been around a while. how can you in a bad time say you have been around 30 years say you are going to change something. they might as well take a chance on a new kid. if you have a voter in delaware and you want change, why would you vote for mike castle? he has been there 30 years? >> he experienced a smaller pool of republicans. >> he argued a change candidate
12:11 am
or a steward of the way things are. >> all the old appeals that go with -- the credentials don't mean anything. >> i can do more for you. that is one of the things you hear i can do more for fill in the blank state. >> people don't want to hear about seniority. >> people were saying no, that is the problem. we know that. we don't like that. >> they can't tell how many bills you pass. >> don't want to hear about it. >> it used to be members of congress would come out during a break and pull out a card and show the bills the congress passed that year. >> the pork. a bridge. a dam. a turnpike. >> here is mcdonnell thanking sarah palin. let's not forget, sarah palin may not have a golden touch but boy she gave this candidate a big touch that got her over the top. here is the candidate who won
12:12 am
thanking the one who endorsed her. so, again, you beitia. there is another woman i got to thank. thank you, governor palin for your endorsement. she got behind -- she got behind us war weary folks and gave us a boost of encouragement when we needed it. she was a vote against the politics of personal destruction. >> she reminds me more of katie couric than sarah palin. physically. this idea of you bet you. it has become so common you can say you bet you and you are talking about sarah palin. >> 1980, a lot of anger in the country and anti-carter feel. >> i saw a guy vote one time in 1980. he went racing into the voting booth. he raced in there. raced past all the people
12:13 am
holding placards. he knew what he was going to do. he was angry he wanted to pull the lever down. the anger is so visceral and gut. they can't wait to get there. you know who is happy? the people who are miserable and know they can do something about it. >> it meant nothing. bennett, specter, it don't mean nothing. >> thank you. coming up, the far right on the rise and when matt castle loses in delaware, it can't be done. it happened. have the republican leaders lost control of their troops. how about democrats, be careful what you wish for. you may want these fringies to
12:14 am
win, but they may be the senators. you are watching "hardball." welcome to progressive. nice calculator. i'm just trying to save money on my car insurance. you know, with progressive, you get the option to name your price. is that even possible? uh, absolutely. trade? and i still get great service? more like super great. oh, you have a message. "hello." calculator humor. i'll be here all week. i will -- that was my schedule. the freedom to name your price. now, that's progressive. call or click today. of lick racing, starting with you, dsrl. stufy, make the call. ♪ [ dialing ] ♪
12:15 am
talking about little delaware, it is a big spotlight. look at what is going on in connecticut. republican linda mcmahon is just six points shy of democrat richard blumenthal in the quinnipiac poll. she has money, she could get the woman vote. he has the problem with his war record. four in ten people support mcmahon mainly because they are against blumenthal. they don't trust him. if i were him i would straighten things out as fast as possible. say you didn't serve in vietnam and were wrong to suggest you did. just fix it mr. blumenthal. that is what i would do, just
12:16 am
fix it. "hardball" returns after this.
12:17 am
12:18 am
we had a long discussion of whether i should run for the senate. we decided together i should. we will have a long discussion whether that was a good discussion or not. i would like to thank the republican party for its support. >> wow. that is mike castle conceding defeat to tea party candidate christine o'donnell in the state of delaware. now we have new numbers from new hampshire. 43% reporting. ovide lamontane holds the lead over kelly ayotte. tea party candidates considered far to the right, christine o'donnell, sharron angle, rand paul, joe buck and joe miller are seriously challenging democrats for senate seats this november. is this a case being careful
12:19 am
what you wish for? david corn writes for "mother jones" and steve karnake of david first then steve. one of the oldest liberal misconceptions or self-delusions, if they run crazy against us we will beat them. >> i'm not sure if it is a liberal delusion. it is a democratic establishment delusion. people are saying the delaware seat is a safe pickup for the democrats. they are celebrating. by all appearances that is probably the case. the early reporting is the republicans are not going to give money. you do have to be careful what you wish for. in kentucky rand paul who would have been put in this category not too long ago is leading despite his gaffes. >> up by seven. >> against the attorney general who is a statewide elected democrat. >> conway. >> jack conway. alaska joe miller is seen as far
12:20 am
and away the favorite. >> i thought pat toomey in pennsylvania was so far out from the mainstream he could never win a general election. i was thinking a lot about that, in fact, once. seriously thinking this guy can't win a general. if you can get in a race like him you got it made. sestak is struggling against him. a far right conservative or tea party is unelectable, in these times, could anybody who is angry win? >> i think it depends. i think you have to separate some of these tea party candidates among themselves. look at toomey and what i see in pat toomey is rick santorum from 1994. probably the only year rick santorum, very, very conservative guy could have gotten elected in pennsylvania was the republican revolution in 1994. you saw what happened when he ran in a bad year, got beat by 20 points. pat comy is a doctrine, solid
12:21 am
guy. if you contrast that with christine o'donnell in delaware, she carries an enormous amount of personal baggage. she is going to be very easy to caricature as a flaky sort of kooky character. to me what i'm looking for when i look at tea party candidates, a lot of them will end up winning. what i'm looking for is which ones are oliver norths. 1994, oliver north lost the unlosable election. i see oliver north. sharron angle, i see an oliver north. >> be careful. harry hasn't been able to shake her. weeks and weeks of getting whacked and whacked again. with the evidence of her fringeness and she is even with harry. >> to me that is almost a triumph for reed. not he is ahead by 15.
12:22 am
he should be losing by 15 or 20. rand paul is ahead by seven points. he is probably going to win in kentucky. that is a race that ordinarily the republicans should win by 20. if rand paul -- >> let me ask you a question, before we get to the question of what they are going to be like in the senate, it is about who can get 50. after all is said and done and they shoot all they have, who has a better chance of winning the thing? is harry reid capable of getting up to 50 when people want to throw the bums out? is anybody running as a democrat capable of gets 50 in these times. >> right now that is the question. we have been living inside the republican bubble dominated, infested, whatever you want to say, the tea party. it is not the gop. it is the gotp. the question is whether that anger spreads to independents or democrats. >> we look at our polling.
12:23 am
our polling has been good this year. polling about enthusiasm is awful good. it has been telling us consistently, christine was ahead in the polls a couple of days ago, 24 hours ago. the polls did get it right. a couple of robo call pollsle. >> these are polls in republican races. when we get to republicans versus democrats we will see how far the anger spreads. i'm with you. i'm worried about harry reid's seat. i don't think the lead over sharron angle is good it is as small as it is. if there is sanger amongst independents and low enthusiasm among democrats he could be in trouble. >> in 1968 you saw the challenge by gene mccarthy against then president johnson. even though he didn't beat him in new hampshire he sent a signal. johnson was out of the race and bobby kennedy was in the race.
12:24 am
i see evidence of people wanting to buck the establishment pretty much all over the country. >> i see 1994 all over again. the big difference is in 1994 the republican party began the year and spent the entire year on the same team. there was no real difference within the republican party between the establishment and the party base. the assumption of the party base is if we elect a republican, any republican, it will be good. the party base got wise to the establishment's trick. you are seeing the same level of anger toward the democratic party, the same resentment toward a democratic president. it is directed at the republican establishment for always putting up these candidates who talk like conservatives and get to office and vote like mike castle. >> do you think some republican incumbents are going to lose in the general? >> i have a hard time seeing where. >> if you are an incumbent republican you have it made. if you are an incumbent
12:25 am
democrat, some big urban areas, you may be okay. if you are in the suburbs or rural areas you are exposed to defeat and could end up like mike castle with your resume and credentials and people will say that is what we don't like. a tough race, when i see barbara boxer running even with somebody pro life in california where you cannot be elected pro life -- >> who shipped jobs overseas. >> i don't get it. anybody wants to whistle past the graveyard you are welcome to it. anybody doesn't see the shock value of what happened in delaware tonight is not paying attention this is shocking rebellious politics by the grassroots picking somebody who may not be qualified to be senator. she doesn't have a job, one thing going for her. we know republicans love to demonize nancy pelosi, but a new ad from her opponent may go too
12:26 am
far. he has her as the wicked witch of the west in "the wizard of oz." the "sideshow" is next, you are watching "hardball" on msnbc. ♪ ♪ j-e-l-l-o ♪ j-e-l-l-o ♪ j-e-l-l-o [ child giggles ]
12:27 am
12:28 am
12:29 am
back to "hardball." to the "sideshow." first making a splash, nancy pelosi's republican challenger john dennis is short of losing this november but that doesn't mean he is not willing to get down in the mud. check out his new web ad. >> hello my pretty. i will save you from those evil republicans. here are my monkeys to make you pay for it all. >> get back, everyone. >> oh, i'm melting. >> thank you for saving us. who are you? >> i'm john dennis. i'm rupging for congress.
12:30 am
i believe in the constitution and reducing debt and throwing water on politicians who say one thing and do another like nancy pelosi. >> dennis says look out for more parodies, a few good men and james bond in the coming months. by the way, pelosi's last republican opponent won a grand total of 10% of the vote. next, back to school politics. remember when john greer whacked at president obama for giving a speech to texas school kids. he accused the president of using taxpayer dollars to indocketry nate children to his social agenda. one year later he had an epiphany. here is what he put out today, the year since i issued a prepared statement regarding president obama's speaking to the nation's school children i have learned a great deal about the party i so deeply loved and served.
12:31 am
many in the gop have racist views and i apologize to the president for my opposition to his speech last year. greer's break with republicans may have been helped by the fact he is facing charges of fraud and money laundering as state republican chairman in florida. you think rahm emanuel is a shoo-in for mayor of chicago? former illinois senator carol mosley braun is announcing she is running. this is one heck of a fight. up next, who wins the big political battle over taxes taxes are knocking at the door of voters. democrats say the republicans are holding the middle class hostage. the republicans say the democrats are waging class warfare. probably both right. the debate is straight ahead. you are watching "hardball" only
12:32 am
on msnbc. [ drums playing ] [ male announcer ] 306 horsepower. race-inspired paddle shifters. and f-sport-tuned suspension. all available on the new 2011 lexus is. it isn't real performance unless it's wielded with precision. [ air whooshing ] [ crunch! ] [ male announcer ] 11 grams of delicious whole grain. one mighty toasted crunch. new wheat thins crunch stix. the crunch is calling.
12:33 am
♪ ♪ one, two, three, four ♪ you say ♪ flip it over and replay ♪ we'll make everything okay ♪ walk together the right way ♪ do, do, do, do so i got my nephew to build a website. i hired someone to make my website... five months ago. we are building a website by ourselves. announcer: there's an easier way. create your own small-business site with intuit websites. just choose a style that fits your business and customize, publish and get found in three easy steps. sweet. all from just $4.99 a month, get a 30-day free trial at
12:34 am
12:35 am
hello, everyone. i'm lynn berry. here is what is happening. ed rendell is apologizing to attendes in peaceful protests and rallies including on anti-terrorism bulletins distributed by his secretary of national security. sarah shroud is glad to be free and will work to free her companions. the french senate banned wearing burkas in public. hurricane igor churns eastward with hurricane julia on its heels. a congressional investigation found one of the egg farms tested positive for
12:36 am
salmonella 426 times in the past two years. former usc running back reggie bush will give up his 2005 heisman award after receiving illegal benefits with his years with the trojans. now back to "hardball." i'm not going to answer all these hyperthreotheticals. what we should fight for in the senate is a permanent extension of the current tax rates. >> that was, of course, mitch mcconnell earlier today on msnbc. what is it going to be all or nothing or something in between? which side has more to gain and more to lose before the midterm? >> let's bring in democratic strategist jennifer palmieri and
12:37 am
republican strategist. doesn't everybody want a tax cut? you don't want to answer this question. >> no, i do. the polling is interesting on this in that a majority of people don't support extending the bush tax cuts. >> themselves they do. no, they don't. >> 52% of americans say no. i think it is because they think the tax cuts all go to rich people. when you say should you extend them for rich people or extend for only the middle class they pick only the middle class. what is great about what john boehner has done is he has clarified the difference -- >> by saying he would sign that bill. let me try something by you. if nothing happens, we all know everybody's taxes go up in january. who wins then? if everybody walks to the voting booth and nothing has been done and everybody's taxes go up in january, who wins then?
12:38 am
>> it is not going to happen in a vacuum. there will be a floor fight. if they can't get a bill passed the democrats will say this is what the election is about. making this decision. >> won't people blame the democrats because they are in pow ir? >> i think you, again mr. boehner helped us make this case if you say i wanted to vote for tax cuts for middle class. they wanted to give $700 billion in more tax cuts to rich people and i wanted to stop that and we are going to come back and fix it next year. >> democratic polling greenberg is making her case. people are willing to fight this fight. the rich shouldn't get the tax cut. the democrats believe this. nancy pelosi believes it in her gut and will fight like heck on this. you say? >> it is a mistake. to answer your first question, i can't think of anybody across this country who wouldn't want a tax cut. people want a tax cut. the class warfare distinction, the democrats are making a
12:39 am
mistake. if the democrats do nothing between now and the election and everybody's taxes go up the republicans can say see, we told you. >> that is not going to happen. >> most americans, 95%, don't know anybody makes over $250,000 a year. >> i believe that. >> there are counties in pennsylvania $100,000, one person makes that kind of money. >> this is politics rather than sound economic policy. we have an administration who spent almost $1 trillion on a stimulus bill. >> let's not get into that. let's talk taxes here. if the bill get passed and the tax cut goes through and the 250,000 people and below get their tax cut, who wins dems or republicans? >> $250,000 or below the democrats win because they can say we are fighting for working
12:40 am
families. >> we agree on that. >> i do. >> suppose it ends up the only bill they get pass is a one or two year extension of tax cuts for everybody, who wins? >> the democrats. see, president obama is trying to meet the republicans halfway. we can't raise taxes in a bad economic time. >> if anything passes the democrats win, if nothing passes the republicans win. >> i think that is right. >> do you agree with that? >> yeah, i do. >> now we know the game. the republicans will do everything to delay this. >> they want a two year extension or permanent extension. >> they are willing to take the loss because if nothing gets passed they win. >> they think they win. >> i think they win. >> we are going to have a fight about it. >> here is the president. here is president obama on this issue. if democrats are in power and they don't get the tax cut they blame democrats. if democrats are in power and they do get their tax cut they
12:41 am
thank democrats. a little bit. >> we could get that done this week, but we're still in this wrestling match with john boehner and mitch mcconnell about the last 2% to 3% on average we would give them $100,000 for people making a $1 million or more. >> can the president of the united states turn these guys into target practice? >> no. >> john boehner, mitch mcconnell the ugliest guys in america. >> john boehner is a friend of mine. most people don't know who john boehner is. >> we know he smokes. >> who cares. >> this doesn't look presidential. you have the president of the united states saying john boehner and mitch mcconnell. you have the bully pulpit. >> you make your point. isn't that a problem for the president of the united states, don't blame me, blame this guy
12:42 am
from ohio that smokes and playing golf. >> it happens to be true they are the ones standing in the way. >> he said on sunday he would vote for the bill. >> the midterms for democrats is a referendum on the economy and what the white house is trying to do and i think it is a smart to do is to make it a choice. that is what voters are making, a choice between obama's direction or john boehner's and the republicans' direction. that is the only way you can say it. >> the bottom line. the tea parties are out there. almost insurrection for a year. they have won seven big races knocking out establishment figures, specter, charlie crist, bob bennett. incumbents and challengers. knocked them all out. their focus is against government, against taxes. are they going to drive the republican thinking to it is a number one issue we have to get tax cuts.
12:43 am
>> yes. republicans got fired because we spent too much, forgot where we came from. we became like democrats. the tea party people are sick and tired that washington knows best. we are going to tell you what money you can keep. >> thank you jennifer and ron. up next, what is senator harry reid doing about don't ask, don't tell. he wants a vote. can he get 60? what happens inside the military if they get rid of don't ask, don't tell. the politics and the reality of getting rid of don't ask, don't tell and having it open service for people regardless of their sexual orientation in the military which looks to be the future. the question is when is it coming and how are people going to handle it? this is "hardball" only on msnbc. ♪ a nutritious start to the day is essential. that's w carnation instant breakfast essentials supplies the nutrients of a balanced breakfast.
12:44 am
so kids get the protein and calcium they need to help build strong muscles and healthy bones. carnation instant breakfast essentials. good nutrition from the start. ♪ i like your messy hair ♪ i like the clothes you wear ♪ i like the way you sing ♪ and when you dance with me ♪ you always make me smile [ male announcer ] we believe you're at your best when you can relax and be yourself. and at thousands of newly refreshed holiday inn hotels, you always can. holiday inn. stay you. and now stay rewarded with a sweet dilemma. up to five free nights at any of our properties or double points. hot news just in. yesterday we told you how republican candidate for governor of california meg whitman ripped a scab off a
12:45 am
fight between jerry brown and bill clinton. today former president bill clinton endorsed jerry brown. it is big of him to do that saying they put their fight behind them years ago. jerry brown called his presidency accomplishment rich. we'll be right back. [ whistling ] [ dog barking ] [ sniffing ] [ male announcer ] missing something? like 2 pairs of glasses for $99.99 at sears optical, with bifocal lenses for just $25 more per pair. hurry in to sears optical today and don't miss a thing. with bifocal lenses for just $25 more per pair. save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance?really
12:46 am
was abe lincoln honest? mary: does this dress make my backside look big? abe: perhaps... save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance?really host: is having a snowball fight with pitching great randy johnson a bad idea? man: yeah, i'm thinking maybe this was a bad idea. of lick racing, starting with you, dsrl. stufy, make the call. ♪ [ dialing ] ♪
12:47 am
welcome back to "hardball." it isn't often we can combine lady gaga, senator harry reid tweets and military policy in one segment. tonight we can. lady gaga dominated this year's video music award. gay veterans were my vma dates. repeal don't ask, don't tell. call harry reid to schedule
12:48 am
senate vote. harry reid is bringing the matter to the floor as part of the defense authorization bill. he tweeted this, there is a vote on the dadt next week. anyone qualified to serve this country should be allowed to do so. catherine miller left west point because she didn't want to serve under don't ask, don't tell. she was one of lady gaga's date. author of how to break a terrorist. let me ask you both, catrin first, let's assume this is going to come to a vote, it may not get 60 votes, the courts may rule on this. it may take a year or a little longer than that. what do you think will be the difference if we have open service? >> actually, i think we are overestimating the differences that repealing don't ask, don't tell is going to entail.
12:49 am
i think it is going to be an incredibly smooth transition. the military is more than prepared to make this transition and i've been exceedingly proud of them to make the difference with desegregation and the integration of women. so i really think we are overestimating the differences it is going to take. >> matthew, what do you think will be the difference? >> i think morale will improve. i have a good friend, one a silver star in afghanistan and he got out of the military because of this policy. not because he was forced out because he felt it created an atmosphere that wasn't conducive for him continuing to serve. we lose good people and are all the worse for it. >> why are people against open service? why are people in the military resisting? why is it so hard for harry reid to stop a filibuster?
12:50 am
who is fighting it? >> it is a small minority. i feel this minority in my case cadets but soldiers at large and general officers are vocal about homophobia and are scared about making this transition. >> why are they scared? try to figure it out? >> there is a big generational gap between the general officer corps and the second lieutenants. homosexuality is a fairly new concept to these people. so i think the generational gap is causing a lot of fear and discomfort at the higher levels. >> matthew, why are people against it? the country is overwhelmingly for open service. i predict they are not going to get the 60 votes. there is a cultural resistance. jim webb, john mccain in the
12:51 am
republican party. they don't want this. >> it is a political issue. it is not reflected by the people in the military, especially the younger generations of people in the military. it is not reflected by the public who acknowledge we have homosexuals serving who are performing admirably, serving side by side, sleeping in the same tents. the logistics as an excuse are not valid. we are already performing our missions without them being able to serve openly. allowing them to serve openly will give people equal chance to serve this country based on competency not sexuality. >> you can call it homophobia, it is part of the debate. we have separated the sexes in the barracks for good reason. they go on leave and have whatever sex theye it
12:52 am
okay for a senior to be in a relationship with a subordinate or two roommates -- >> so fraternization rules have to be strictly enforced. a drill instructor has to have an attraction to somebody the the ranks that causes problems. you say you can deal with it with discipline. no camaraderie between the ranks. >> right. adhere to existing military policy regulating these behaviors.
12:53 am
unacceptable behavior for hetero sexuals. it is the same for homosexuals. we are not asking for special treatment but equality. >> i was in the peace corps. we didn't have these issues. the fact is people who argue you can't have them in the same barracks, people attracted to each other. do you see requirements for changing the rules to make that a more disciplined situation? >> no, i don't, chris. i have been a criminal investigator for the military for almost eight years. we quit investigating homosexual conduct years ago because it doesn't affect unit morale. our investigations and corrective actions should be based on conduct and misconduct not on someone's sexuality. >> we are going to have this argument for a while. it looks like it is not going to pass. the courts are getting into it. thanks so much. congratulations, katherine, it
12:54 am
is an honor to have you on. you have been through a lot. matthew alexander as well. when we return thoughts about why it is time to end don't ask, don't tell. you are watching "hardball" only on msnbc. ♪ where'd you learn to do that so well. ♪ the new cadillac srx. the cadillac of crossovers. cadillac. the new standard of the world. ♪ j-e-l-l-o ♪ j-e-l-l-o ♪ j-e-l-l-o [ child giggles ] but now, to get it really cooking,
12:55 am
you need a little website development. some transparent reporting, so you know it's working. online ads and 1-on-1 marketing consultation. yellowbook's got all that. yellowbook360 has a whole spectrum of tools. the perfect recipe for success. visit and go beyond yellow. what had happened in central harlem was failure became the norm. the schools were lousy... the healthcare was lousy... gangs were prevalent. violence was all over. families were falling apart. you can't raise children in a community like that. people had been talking about things, but not doing anything. hi, mr. canada... how are you? i'm doing great, how 'bout you? right here on 119th street. if we could fix this block,
12:56 am
then we could fix the next block, then we could fix the next block... we promised parents, if your child stays with us, i guarantee you that child is going to graduate from college. failure is simply not an option. the sixty...the seventy... the eighty... the ninety-seven blocks which ends up being 10,000 children. we start with children from birth, and stay with those children until they graduate. if you really want to have an impact that is large, you will get there going one step at a time. there is no act that is too small to make a difference. no matter what you want to do, members project from american express can help you take the first step. vote, volunteer or donate at
12:57 am
12:58 am
let me fipp finish tonight with the question of open service in the military. i think don't ask, don't tell, was destined to be an intermediate solution between those who support open service. the premise is a gay person would agree to a strange comp t compact. only if he or she didn't say they were gay, didn't declare their sexual orientation. the problem as has been explained is this don't ask, don't tell rule didn't apply to straight soldiers. they could come back from a weekend pass sharing their exploits for all to hear. the gay soldier or sailor would have to keep quiet. to do others would violate the cam packet. don't tell has meant that, don't tell. my hunch having not served is
12:59 am
soldiers do not ask soldiers question because that would require them to tell which is -- discharge. the american public changed its mind on this matter, never so quickly, so dramatically. the social bias of anti-gay is diminishing as it did towards catholics and jewish people and sadly gradually for african-americans. military service is one reason prejudice began to die. it is hard to deny full acceptance when you know firsthand how they have given for their country. we have a group of americans willing to fight for our country openly and with full pride. perhaps the reasons americans are changing their minds are not so different from wartime saw such a shift in attitudes.