tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC November 19, 2010 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
i don't know. >> i'll be spending my weekend getting over the fact that "dancing with the stars" is not fair. i thought of all the corruption i have to deal with on this show, the housing market, the fed, the wars and now, "dancing with the stars," too. we're coming for them next week. that does it for us. hope you have a nice weekend and "hardball's" up right now. the president is getting it from all sides. let's play "hardball." good evening i'm michael smerconish. getting it from the left as well as the right. senate democrats are fighting mad at president obama. they blame him for losing the message war. here's what they want him to do. lose that bipartisan talk. put on the boxing gloves and
cast republicans as the party we hold into special interests. sherrod brown will be here to offer his advice on how the president can regain the upper hand. plus, it's a cloak and dagger story set in cyber space. a computer worm that infected iran's operating systems was likely an attack to sabotage the country's nuclear program. and let me get this straight. republicans won't extend unemployment benefits for people struggling to find work, but are pushing for tax cuts for the rich. can democrats call them out? also, when will our troops leave afghanistan? president obama previously set july 2011 as the start, but today, 2014. let me finish with some thoughts about my week filling in for chris.
let's start with democrats unhappy with president obama. senator sherrod brown is a democrat from ohio. thank you for joining us. i want to show you some of the reportings from politico today about what went on in the caucus meeting you attended last night and bill nelson's frustration at the president. it was reported -- is that an accurate report? can you paint the picture of what went on behind closed doors? >> i don't want to talk about a meeting not open to the public, but i will say that of course the president's controversial, but among senate democrats, we want to president to stand strong. we want him to sharpen the differences. republicans want to block unemployment maintaining unemployment benefits for the
millions of unemployed workers that are going to see those benefits run out. at the same time, the republicans want to do tax cuts for the wealthiest in the country. we want the president to make those distinctions sharply because that will clearly win the message and help us governor the way we ought to govern. >> to what extent does that limit his ability to deal with these new republican house members? can he have it both ways? >> that's not giving people on the left what they're looking for. 80, 90% of the country, if it's a choice, maintain unemployment benefits rather than giving tax cuts to the wealthiest in the country. you know that the 90% of the country, the broad middle class has seen wages flat or worse in most of the last ten years. while the wealthiest 2 or 3 or 5 or 10% have done very, very
well. so why do we give a tax break to those who have done so well and have our children pay for it. that's a good government, midding class, fight for people that aspire to the middle class thing. >> as another aindicator, i wan to show you james carville. let's watch and listen. >> is he being a wimp or sounding the right time being on the right course and is his approach -- >> i don't know. i'm the guy -- gave him one of her balls would both have two. >> indicative of what's happening within the democratic apparatus or an old wound? >> i don't know. i don't comment on people -- i look at it this way. the president of the united states, the majority, the republican leader, i'm sorry,
the republican leader in the senate has said his goal for the next two years speaking for his republican colleagues in the senate is to make sure that barack obama fails and excuse me that he doesn't -- a one-term president. this same republican leader, we're seeing this same kind of behavior. they refused to meet with the president this week. boehner and mcconnell refused to meet with the president of the united states. someone in the "washington post" wrote that the democrats moved to the center, the republicans moved the center. that really is what boehner and mcconnell are trying to do. the president for instance in ohio in 2008, got 2.9 million votes. all the republican candidates for congress got a total of 2 million i believe 11,000 votes. obama got 900,000 votes. 20 to 30 million votes nationally more than the
republicans got this year, so there's no mandate to do tax cuts for the rich and deregulation an more of these outsources free trade agreements. >> how much of the problem within the democratic party is his problem, the president's problem as compared to driven by senate democratic leaders. how much of the angst exhibited in that meeting last night was self-directed. was there introspection on the part of you and your colleagues? >> all the time. of course. and there's always some difficult times after a losing election. the republicans went through it in '06. they decided in january 2009, even though you could argue president obama had a mandate, they said no, no, no. they gave him a good day, the next day, they were saying no and have been for two years. i'm not saying no to the republicans, but i'm also saying
we're not going to do more tax cuts for the rich. more deregulation of wall street. more job killing outsourcing free trade agreements. those things don't work for the american public in toledo, cleveland, mansfield or the whole country. >> i've given you two indications of the president's problems in his own party. one, the caucus, then carville. sam stein reported that george soros told donors the following -- does he face a rell realistic through with his own party? >> no. they're always, when ever you lose an election, there's second guessing, disappointment, anger, anxiety. how are we going to face the
next few months. the president will lead. he's strong. the president needs to step up and make the distinction better. when he reaches out to republicans and they slap his hand again and won't even meet with him. when john boehner says no compromise. when mitch mcconnell says my major goal is for him tor a one-term president, the president's going to stand up and make that contrast. the voters don't like that when one party says we're not even going to meet with him. the president said he'll work with republicans. they don't seem to want to. it's time the president make the sharp distinction on trade, jobs, health care, on the budget and taxes and when he makes that, it's clear democrats win. i ran a race on that in 2006. i'd run a race on it again when i'm up in two years on the contrast between what they stand for, the direction they want to take the country and the direction we want to take it. i want to work with republicans. i'll work with ohio's junior
senator, but i'm not going to vote for tax cuts from the top people. >> senator sherrod brown. many thanks for your time. with me now is michael crowley. how much room does the president have to move? i asked the senator if he gives progressives what their looking for. >> i think there's basically no ability to make deals with republicans right now. so what i think the left wants so clearer as they say messages. senator brown hit on the most profitable theme available to the white house right now, which is this issue of the tax cuts. you hear this grousing among senate democrats, but they have handled the tax cut issue terribly. they had a chance to force republicans to depend cutting tagsings for the wealthiest. which is an unpopular decision because it's built into their ideology right now and senate
democrat couldn't and the house as well. couldn't get it to a vote, couldn't get consensus on it. i think this is a place where obama can start to hammer it and he has not done so thus far. it's not like senate democrats have been a brilliant model on this. >> i think of health care by way of example. no one ran on it. seems like everyone hid on the issue. wouldn't they have been better served if they said that's what we did and here's why and tried to sell it to american people. >> on the obama agenda broadly? >> i'm saying why is all the kulpaablety at his end of pennsylvania avenue? >> right, i see what you're saying and the tax cut fight is a good example. there were some house candidates in particular who tried to own his agenda. tried to run proudly on it.
tom perriello in virginia is a good example. it wasn't enough for him to win. i think russ feingold tried to do is same thing. at the end of the day, unemployment is close to 10%. to some degree, i think all the talk about messaging is overstated. there's only so much that democrats can do running into the head winds of an economy like this. >> michael crowley, many thanks. appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, who's behind the computer worm aimed at destroying iran's network? experts say the program was designed to speed up and destroy the center which iran is using.
senatorial campaign committee which as the name implies, exists to elect democrats to the senate. so far, no takers. that's because the democrats will be defending a whopping 21 senate seats in 2012, plus the two independents who caucused with him. it could prove to be much tougher for the democrats than this year was. some of the senators could be patty murray, mark warner and mark udall. we'll be right back. [scraping] [piano keys banging]
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israel. more more, let's turn to roger cressey who's a former national security council staffer and bob bair. bob, is this a substitute for an ariel attack? >> oh, i think absolutely. if we look at the archaeology of this, four years ago, israel was pressing the united states to attack the nuclear facilities in iran. the bush administration refused. it was too dangerous. i think what's happened is israel has turned to these indirect attacks. we had a nuclear scientist killed in tehran, and now, this trojan horse which was very sophisticated. we see the israeli reverting to indirect attacks. >> maybe i have the movie social network on the brain. could it be some cyber geeks based in israel and took this
into their own hands? >> it was a very complicated trojan horse. i understand they're. >> reporter: very expensive to make. it's the state of israel who benefits. >> how does it work? hopefully you can explain it to me in lay terms i'll follow. >> it was targeting industrial control systems and going after the plc, the programmable logic controll controller. you think of a control system used in gas pipelines, also in critical infrastructure. what happened here was somebody was able to get this into the infrastructure, probably on a programmable thumb drive and then it started exploiting vulnerableties, four of which were never before exploited. and it compromised to the point it got to its target. start to spin these converters in a way that took the
centrifuges well beyond the speed of what they were supposed to do. >> something more than touching the send key. i'm constantly bombarded with e-mails i know i shouldn't open. something more than that. >> completely. as bob said, this is not a group of 16-year-olds in someone's basement with time on their hands. over 5,000 programmable functions, multiple playlayers it. one of the most complexes malaware we've seen. >> today's "new york times" report that is in recent weeks -- bob, to you, i ask what about the u.s. role? do you think the united states was involved in this? >> the israeli can do do this on
their own. i'm sure this administration was supportive of the attack and it's better than going to war with iran and the israelis aren't admitting it. they need plausible deniability. for the rairanian, they want to remain a mysterious force. >> roger, to the extent we were playing a role, would it be legal? >> whatever role we played would be legal because it would be done under covert authorities. the issue always is when ever you launch an attack in cyber space, the traditional covert authorities, the way we do covert action doesn't pertain. there are still collateral damage associated with it. you can't control things when launched in cyber space. if the u.s. government did have a role and i wouldn't be surprised if it did, this was very much covered under existing authorities. >> to the extent this is the way it played out and if it were
successful and spared the united states or israel from launching an attack, i applaud it, but it raises questions of our vulnerability. i know you and richard clark have published on that subject cht. >> the difference is often the click of a key stroke. you're seeing the department of homeland security saying, are there vulnerableties that could be exploited the same way. you're going to see some out there who will take the code, maybe you know work it on the edges and launch in a different way. once something is shot into cyber space, you can never bring it back. >> on that question, i also read that it extended beyond iran,
india. how do you prevent it from entering the united states? >> it's going after these electric converters. you could have a computer affected, but it's not going to affect its performance. there have been over 100,000 infections, but only hurting those things originally targeted. >> bob, it reminds me of the taking out out of that hamas leader in january of this year in dubai. something else widely attributed to the israelis and mehsud. they seem to relish that they can carry out such attacks. >> they want to intimidate. in dubai, i don't think they wanted to get caught, but in this case, it's the israelis are sometimes good and sometimes, don't work. >> roger, is this a short-term fix in iran?
to the extent we've been successful and the centrifuges are running haywire. is it a permanent fix? >> no. this is a really cruel operation, who ever did it. it buys us and the israelis and the west time. it was extremely successful and demonstrates there will be other attempts through cyber space. secretary gates said last week he does not think the military option is viable so you're going so see us look at other options to set the program back. >> appreciate your time very much. thank you for being here. up next, joe biden gave a diplomatic response after hearing sarah palin say she could beat president obama. that are good for you. new v8 v-fusion + tea. one combined serving of vegetables and fruit with the goodness of green tea and powerful antioxidants.
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welcome back to "hardball." it's time for the "sideshow." nobody it seems escapes a patdown. >> what's all this extra security about? >> we have president bush on the program, so everybody gets patted down. >> even you, this is your show. >> makes no sense at all. >> tell me about it. listen, go easy grope master. >> my problem is after one of those, i'm all for it because if there's a guy walking around with a bomb, i want to know about that, so i don't mind the excessive, the groping and probing. my problem is when it's done, i don't know how much to tip the guy. i never know. >> and today, the tsa announced one group of people who will not have to go through the scanners.
pilots. now to joe biden who found himself in an unfamiliar situation today, speechless. here he is on "morning joe" along with the sarah palin clip he's reacting to. >> if you ran for president, could you beat barack obama? >> i believe so. >> well, i -- look -- i -- get me in trouble. i -- i don't think she could beat president obama but you know -- she's always underestimated, so i think i shouldn't say any more. speaking of 2012, the des moines register -- he may be intellectually gifted, but no rock star. 67, looks his age, working on the paunch with a personal
trainer but can't match palin or barbour when it comes to charisma. ouch. how much will it cost to run for president? republican leaders estimate the minimum amount a gop candidate will need in 2012, $35 million. that's tonight's big number. 35 million. up next, republicans block unemployment benefits and at the same time, are pushing to keep bush tax cuts. democrats say the republicans are helping the rich and helping the poor. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. ♪ [ growls ] ♪ ♪ [ polar bear grunting ] [ growls ] [ male announcer ] introducing the 100% electric nissan leaf.
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the dow jones finishing two points higher. take a look at the dow this week. the sell-off tuesday bouncing back on thursday but in the end, the markets finished where they started. retailers were the standouts this week. ann taylor soaring on a big jump in sales. foot locker also delivers stronger than expected earnings, nike citing a strong balance sheet and growing sales. and an incredible year of cloud computing company sales force. sales have been climbing steadily since january. an 18% increase today. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball."
welcome back to "hardball." last night, house republicans and a few democrats voted to block a temporary extension of unemployment benefits. here's vice president biden today on "morning joe" reacting to that vote. >> i think they're making a gigantic mistake, we've always extended unemployment, but in terms of the economy. the single biggest stimulus, these people go out and spend the money. they go out and have to get by, everything from whether they're paying their mortgage or rent or buying food or just getting by. it has a significant impact on economic growth and continuation of growth. >> gregory meeks sits on the financial services committee and earnest istook.
the optics seem bad for the gop, wanting to extend the bush tax cuts or for the upper 2%. >> what we really want is for people to have jobs, not to be dependent on the government. t we cannot raise taxes on anybody right now. when you have the opportunity for taxes to stay the same, it should be the same across the board. the problem right now, a big reason businesses are sitting on some $2 trillion in retained earnings is because they fear the potential of tax increases. they fear the huge regulatory burdens about to come their way, that are pending in the obama administration. the best thing we can do for
businesses is to say you're going to have certainty and not have higher expenses cht that's how we get them to hire people. >> congressman meeks, for how long should we continue down this path? >> we've got to fix the economy. those 2 million people who are out of work, they want to work. this is just a short-term pain for long-term gain. we want to extend it so they can make their monthly payments, but we want to fix and create jobs. we've got move this economy. under the obama administration, we have been moving. we have been creating jobs. as we start to deal with infrastructure and start dealing with exporting more, we begin to create the jobs, more unemployment begins to go down and we don't have to worry about extending employment, but right
now, people are hurting. 2 million americans who will be depending on. >> are we facilitating dependen dependence? aren't we building into the system dependence on the system? >> no. it sounds like people are saying unemployment is like giving people welfare. it's two different things. unemployment is an emergency situation. a lot of the individuals, when we talk about the upper 1%, they helped destroy this economy, but because the economy's so bad and unemployment is so high, we're talking about a short-term situation. when i said short-term pain for long-term gain. we want these people to go back to work. they don't want unemployment. they want a job. >> congressman istook, same question to you. at what point are we fostering
dependen dependence? >> there's no clear line, but when we've had benefits extended for 99 weeks, there are people who have become dependent upon them. we need to be listening to the people who create the jobs, the businesses who say we cannot afford a big tax increase. we cannot afford these big, new regulation that is the obama administration has that they're trying to move through the pipeline and hit the economy with those expenses. again, there is $2 trillion locked up in companies right now that they could be using to create more jobs. to expand, to improve the economy, but they're telling us it's the uncertainty created by the federal government that is the biggest barrier to them. >> you'd agree that the party could easily overplay it's hand. understand from the recent election results no doubt, but
next week is thanksgiving. the optics are not going to be pleasant if this continues? >> if you've ever watched the world series of poker, you know that anybody can overplay their hand unless they are sitting there with a straight flush, royal flush, and nobody's holding a hand like that, so sure, republicans could overplay their hands, but the democrats koud, too. the only bipartisan position in washington is to say let's continue the lower tax rates for everybody. you have a number of democrats who have joined with republicans on that theme and the number of democrats who say anybody's taxes should increase seems to be going down. >> number one, 97% of americans, actually, all americans receive a tax cut because i think one of the things that's not clear, when you talk about the $250,000 for family, it's a middle income
tax cut, so everybody up to $250,000 will get a tax cut. if you're a millionaire up to that, you get the same tax cut. if you're a family under $250,000, you get that. it is true. >> how is it not true? >> it is true. >> he's trying to say everybody gets the same tax cut. that's not is case. >> everybody gets it on the first 250. >> you want to raise taxes on the people who are already paying the majority. >> listen. everybody -- everybody up to the first 250 gets a tax break and we are also concerned about the deficit. about how to pay for it. >> congressman meeks, i want to talk about the debt. i'm glad you raised it. here's former senator, alan
simpson. this morning with joe scarborough. >> anybody that says if you get rid of earmarks and waste, fraud and abuse and all foreign aid, we'll get there. just babble at them the next time. don't listen to anybody giving you that. you've got to go where the meat is and that's health care, medicare, medicaid, social security. not balancing the books on the backs of poor old staggering seniors to make the damn thing solvent. >> if the recommendations of simpson and bowles came before you, could you vote yay on that? >> parts of it. along with my staff, we're going through it now and trying to see what i could vote on because there are some items that we have to take serious reference to reducing the deficit, but we've got to make sure we're not doing that on the back of
seniors, damage to one segment. that's why i say that even now, we've got to be sure that we're not just giving multimillionaires an additional tax break and hurting some of the average every day americans and hard working seniors. one of the things we're going to see soon, when you're campaigning, it's one thing. i want to see what the republicans would do when you have to raise the debt ceiling. that's going to come up very early. >> what about that, congressman istook? >> he wants to raise the debt celling in order to pay for the bills that he and the current congress have been running up with their level of spending. i've been talking a lot with some of the incoming freshman members of congress. part of that they describe are the american people are responsible on these issues. they realize government cannot pay for everything. cannot pay for the same level of health care or continue a system
under their current terms that are going to go bankrupt and benefit no one, so they're ready to make some tough decisions that would require people to -- >> congressman meeks -- >> allow me if i may to show you what john boehner told reporters on this issue about the debt ceiling -- respond so that if you would. congressman meeks. >> we're going to see about government. a lot of these same people campaigned against raising the debt ceiling but the united states government has options and we will now see when it's not campaign time, are you going to shut down the government, not pay our obligations. the other thing i want to say because i can't let him get away with what he said, this administration inherited a huge
debt. it wasn't created -- >> made it worse. >> we were in the worst recession since the great depression due to eight years of the prior administration. >> and it got worse under your policies. >> no, it would have been worse. >> i appreciate your time. >> good to be with you. >> there you go. some civility. up next, president obama's in portugal talking about the war in afghanistan with nato and there's new concern the 2011 deadline is sliding back. this is "hardball" only on msnbc.
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that commitment will be kept cht we said then the slope and pace at which we get out depending on the circumstances but we will begin to transition. 2014 is now a date that everyone has agreed upon. that doesn't mean we're going to have anywhere near 100,000 troops in 2013. just like the commitment we made in iraq. >> iraq veteran is the executive director of vets for freedom -- pete, a headline today in the "washington post," troublesome at least to me and a bit mystifying. it talks about how our first heavy tank use is about to commence in afghanistan. i thought we were on our way out. >> i don't think it's up to you or i to determine what tactics we should be using, but this has been the problem all along. it's always for this administration been about finding a way out. how soon can we get out?
you read woodward's back, getting out as soon as possible. >> how soon should it be? >> we want to win our damn war. what happens on the ground in afghanistan matters. there's a reason president bush recommitted to iraq. because it was important we finish it. we need a place, we can't have the rest of the world -- >> it seems like there's no end to it. no representation of al-qaeda even left in afghanistan. >> it's not about how many members are in afghanistan. there's in fantasy land, this idea that folks think that we can just leave and if we do, things will get better or al-qaeda's not there anymore so they won't come back. they'll come back. we've seen this before. either commit now and get it down in a strategy the president has laid forward, or pass this problem to the next generation.
>> it's like ground hog day. brian, what are we missing? >> i think one thing we're missing and you've talked about this, we've talked about this, the simple fact that 3,000 americans is the simple fact is that 3,000 americans were killed on 9/11. we're inst afghanistan because that. the previous administration didn't get the job done. it actually distracted country by going into an unnecessary war in iraq and now we're actually got to get bin laden and this administration the obama administration's committed more resources in doing that and rather than being passive like the bush administration in pakistan, we actually are much more aggressive there and like pete likes to shake his pom-poms on the sidelines about this, but like this administration has targeted the al qaeda network out there, much more -- in a much more focused way by ending the unnecessary war in iraq and actually committing more resources to pakistan. >> the longer -- >> and afghanistan, i think, you know the big challenge right now is actually, how do we actually
bring this to completion so that we can fight the real enemy? >> i think what we're frying to do is get out of there as quickly as we can leaving some form of stabile government behind? not have a but nobody wants to be there forever, and pete, i have to say, i'm shocked that on the homefront, particularly in the last election cycle, that there wasn't more concern expressed over the cost. frankly, afghanistan, wasn't even an issue in the recent election, and yet the economy was. >> i certainly wish afghanistan was a larger point as well. it was disappointing to see. to brian's point, hey, the obama administration -- the bush administration may not have fought the afghan war correctly, fine and it's ghad we're going into pakistan and taking on elements there. those are all good things but that doesn't mean -- i mean why would we abandon afghanistan? so at what part of abandoning afghanistan is good policy? >> i don't understand. i don't understand. this is going to come across as antiwar and -- i don't know what. i don't know what the mission is. i don't know why we're still there spending all of this money. bin lad sen not there. bin laden is in the tribal
regions of pakistan one place where we're not where we should be. >> absolutely. we are spending can about $100 billion this year in afghanistan and that's actually the amount that we sent on the department of homeland security and all of our intelligence agencies combined. so like when you're getting your pat-down on the airport on thanksgiving holiday all of that. i think that we're in overkill mode in afghanistan. realign our priorities to yemen and to pakistan and other places, too. >> pete and brian othis subject of bin ladin, i've got to show you president bush being questioned on this subject by jay leno last night. >> i was determined to bring justice to those who attacked our country. and worked that way for 7 1/2 year years. [ applause ] >> why do you think that we haven't been able to find osama bin laden? why has this alluded us? >> if we knew where he was we'd have him and he's hiding in a very remote part of the world, i guess. >> and that remote part of the world is presumably the federally administered tribal area in pakistan, where we still
aren't and where i wish we were. pete, thank you for your service. i may disagree with you on this but i applaud with what you do for your country. i brian, i don't know that the predator drones are going to get that job done and in fact i probably believe that they won't. >> yeah i agree with that. look on the predator drones we've had three times as many as predator drone strikes in pakistan under obama administration compared to bush who was quite passive. we need to take further steps to get the pakistanis to take care of this business and i think that we're starting to do naep mean when the history's written on all of this and we fulminate about iraq and other things the real challenge and in almost all of the terror plots that we see in america have come out of pakistan, and that passive approach by the previous administration that really let things go to hell in pakistan, that's been reversed. and that's one thing that many republicans, conservatives, really don't have much of an answer to. >> well, men -- >> including george bush himself. >> -- i wish that i had more time because i love this issue taken needs more attention. i to the thank pete and brian.
i appreciate you being here. >> great, thank you. when we return i'll have some thoughts about my week filling in for chris math use. you're watching "hardball." only on msnbc. if you live for performance, upgrade to castrol edge advanced synthetic oil. with eight times better wear protection than mobil 1. castrol edge. it's more than just oil.
it's liquid engineering. holy sci-fi. steve. no, i know. it's great, right? but, dude, i've been thinking like, this is such a great opportunity for us to write at least an hour to two every single day. you can see this? of course i can see you. but, steve, i'm thinking-- it's like you're standing-- it's like you're standing right there. it's like i'm touching you. yeah. introducing cisco umi, together we are the human network. cisco. it's like i'm talking to you from the future.
familiar to most americans. they'd been some good moments that made the air and a few interesting ones that didn't. i think it's been a pretty good week but i have a few regrets. i probably should have not asked newly sworn-in senator chris coons if he was paddled as part of his initiation but i'm glad. that i once wrongly told chris that he'd never win. and maybe my commentary about roger waters of pink floyd was ill-suited for the "hardball" audience. i'd like to apologize to tamron hall for returning her segment on the beer caffeine drink four loko into a prime or whippets. you know they do "the jimmy fallon show" across the hall. i had no idea that the british voice they heard a few nights ago was daniel radcliffe or i would have tried to score an autograph for our sons. fallon must have a happening program. i've never watched but i intend to because the night after i missed "harry potter" there was a guystrumming an acoustic guitar beheinz a closed door from across from where i'm now seated.
it was bruce springsteen i didn't meet him either. the closest i came was giving a little nod to little stephen van zant who always for me will always be silvio. speaking celebrity moments i had a brief but nice chat with rachel maddow but about maybe when i met brian williams i shouldn't have led with, hey i loved you on 30 rock." was not to create anything for youtube. i thought that i made it until the producer named chris pendy told me that he cut some tape of me exhibiting a few of my ideosyncracies during commercial breaks. >> [ humming ] ♪ do, do, do, do, do, do, do ♪ ♪ bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah ♪ >> i'm going home now. but not before i stroll past the 75-year-old norway spruce that's in a stand out front next to the ice
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