tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC November 22, 2010 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
is far more important -- >> than the sheet of paper. >> and of course, the problem we've been having in this country, we're not helping either. >> and you'll add my mother to the list. >> actually, my mom, too. >> if you want to add both of our mothers, please. thank you. that does it for us. "hardball" is up next with chris matthews back from vacation. what's worse? palin or the pat down? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington. can she see the white house from her house? a new poll's got her leading the republican pack for 2012. do we take that seriously?
all the outward signs are that sarah palin's running for president. is there any indication this former half term government is giving five minutes a day to thinking, reading, to try to get into the people who wouldn't claim for a second they're ready to lead this country. any way, she knows how to sell the question, she knows how to milk what she calls the lame stream press and says she can beat obama. can obama beat her? you can bet he thinks he can. plus, can we cut the cheap shots over the new tsa screenings? tell me how to keep the killers off the planes because that's a huger question. it's going to be a problem when one gets by and blows up the plane. how do you think the israelis have prevented terrorism over there. also, will president obama put on the pressure to repeal don't ask don't tell and repeal the tax cuts for the rich or try
to get through christmas with a compromise. will that cause him trouble with the howard dean, russ feingold folk who is may be looking to challenge him for president next time? one of the key issues will be the s.t.a.r.t. trial which jon kyl is opposing. this isn't about waste, fraud and abuse. this is about nuclear weapons. can anybody defend this republican push to destroy nuclear peace? finally, the best skit ever from "saturday night live." it's one of their best spoofs i can ever remember and that's in a "hardball" "sideshow." we start with sarah palin. some are afraid we're going to end with her. david corn and pat buchanan, an msnbc political analyst. let's take a look at former governor palin last week in an
interview with barbara walters. >> i'm looking at the lay of the land now and trying to figure that out if it's a good thing for the country, for the discourse, for my family. >> if you ran for president, could you beat barack obama? >> i believe so. >> i would love to know what's going on in barbara walter's head. she has seen them all. she can judge the people and there she's looking at this woman going, what is her story. what is her story? >> i came across this real "hardball" interview there, chris. >> okay. as you make that dismissive comment about one of the heroes of journalism. sometimes, a snarky question gets the good answer. >> pat buchanan's old friend, reagan, there was a saying associated with him. do it for the giper. for palin, do it for the hell of it. she's out there with book -- i don't think she knows yet. i think she wants to cash in and
get a lot of celebrities. >> i don't want to caswaste you time with this. i know you like her. this is a quinnipiac poll. a really good poll. the warning line. you want our buddies to say don't pay attention to these early polls. 19 points for palin. romney's got 18, huckabee at 17. newt at 15 and pawlenty at 6. what i'm impressed by as a poll watcher and i believe them for what they are, huckle chuckle is so strong. is this really a three-way fight right now? >> huckabee and palin have one thing that none of the others have. they have follows, chris. huckabee's got a tremendous following. he won the iowa caucus. sarah is -- >> is he a reverend?
>> i think he was. >> are you always a reverend once you are or can you change? >> i think pat robertson dropped it. a christian business man. palin's got the tea partiers with her, the christians with her. huckabee is the one challenger who can take an enormous part of that base away from her and deliver it to somebody else. >> so, this is foreign territory for you. let's be honest here. if you look at this like a bracket situation, you've got the western conference, the tea party people. very christian conservatives, like you are, very believing in the moral issues. then the east coast, the establishment, mitt romney types. if she is knocked out for that conservative bracket by huckabee, she's out of the game. if she wins that, she's in it to
the end, right? >> i think what she's got, she went down into delaware and got behind an unknown and got her to beat in the primary, the most popular republican in the state. she can do what fdr did not do, knock people off in her own party. let me finish. she's got legs in this sense. she can last through defeats and keep going. very few others can keep going. >> let's look at the people -- >> she still has to campaign on her own. going in and giving her -- >> if you ever doubt there's a republican establishment, wash barbara bush. >> what's your read about sarah palin? >> i sat next to her once, thought she was beautiful and i think she's very happy in alaska and i hope she'll stay there. >> i like the nonreaction from george herbert walker.
>> who ever thought the barbara bush would be the voice of the american public. she's more in sync with people than pat is. >> what would you rather have as president? >> i'd go for barbara bush. palin's ratings are over 50%. she doesn't match well against obama. >> we're talking about the republican primary. barbara bush is a great lady, that was a very snarky comment that's going to offend a lot of people, but it's representative of what the establishment believes about sarah palin. >> sometimes, the establishment -- >> challenging us. >> let's take a look a at a group who has always backed her. barnes and bill crystal. they basically found her on a boat. went on one of those alaska
cruises. they had her -- she came running out to the boat, they went to lunch. this apparently dropped her. here's matt lebash in an upcoming issue -- that is a -- they have just picked her like they picked quyale and discarded quyale once they were finished with him. >> no, not yet. if you ran an editorial, it may be -- but it's not conclusive. i would agree, she is far bigger than the neocons. she was a figure -- people
called me about her in 2006. >> they know something that most americans know. she's empty and not competitive in the general election. >> she's not doing any homework? any substance? >> she's doing very well not doing substance. there is merit in what he says. >> it's a win. >> they're saying if we nominate her, we're going down the tubes. >> can i make a prediction? left right? i think what's going on is what you say. they're looking at the polls, they're wondering if obama can get his sea legs back. if not, this looks like a real wobbly situation. they're not going to blow this
with somebody on the right they happen to like idea logically. i think it's newt. >> newt, no way. >> watch this. >> no way. >> chris, 1980, the real sensible choice was george h.w bush. that's the day -- >> was a heavy weight. >> reagan was also somebody about whom there were enormous questions right to the end of the campaign. >> keep it quiet, would you? >> just for a second. >> you don't account for people who respond to the heart. >> does newt not get to the heart? >> no. no. >> who else gets to the republican haeeart? >> huckabee. >> you think this is a battle for the heart of the conservative party -- >> romney's the establishment guy. takes it into the --
>> wait. the last time out mccain won without appealing to anybody. >> who's going to win the nomination? >> romney. huckabee and palin, it's a death match from the social l conservative front. can i finish now? he slips on the base of being a business man and talking about the economy, which is something sarah palin can't do. >> how do you go to the republican convention in tampa, florida, 120 degrees in tampa. everybody's going to be sweating and hot. humid. 120. and all these conservatives are going to truck down there from iowa, south carolina, all the place where palin wins and put salute up to mitt mitt romney. >> tell me who wins iowa and south carolina. i'll tell you who wins the nomination. if she wins those two, she wins. >> then the republicans lose in
2012. people know that. >> we've done this before. >> we salute you for recommending the republicans -- to be. >> a lot tougher. he's the hardest one out there. >> you basically, if you had to put your money, pat, on the table, 100 bucks, what would you put it on? >> i don't know. if huckabee's in, i would guess -- >> you want the scanner or pat down? we'll bring pat down, david corn, pat buchanan. he gets the scanner, he gets the pat down. coming up, still lots of anger. is the israelis -- 45-minute interviews. is that what we want? what about the extra security before boarding the plane. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. ♪
♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] at&t covers 97% of all americans. rethink possible. was complicated, with a series of stepped altitude changes. [ air traffic controller ] okay, 245, proceed to your next cleared altitude. [ sighs ] [ male announcer ] today, truecourse flight management systems from ge allow for fuel savings, lower emissions and less noise... ♪ ...making the old way of doing things... [ air traffic controller ] 245, you are cleared to land. [ male announcer ] ...seem less than graceful. ♪
i mentioned that new quinnipiac poll that shows president obama in a match upwith 2012 republicans. romney narrowly edges out president obama, 45-42. too close to call. obama leads huckabee. obama leads mitch daniels largely unknown, 45-36, but he's an unknown guy and obama gets closest to 50% against palin. he doesn't get 50 against her. very interesting. we'll be right back. kitchen.com. kitchen.com. campbell's.® it's amazing what soup can do.™ my professor at berkeley asked me if i wanted to change the world. i said "sure." "well, let's grow some algae." and that's what started it. exxonmobil and synthetic genomics have built a new facility
to identify the most productive strains of algae. algae are amazing little critters. they secrete oil, which we could turn into biofuels. they also absorb co2. we're hoping to supplement the fuels that we use in our vehicles, and to do this at a large enough scale to someday help meet the world's energy demands. [ gobble, gobble ] [ female announcer ] great wine, great price, gobble it up. [ gobble, gobble ]
and you also have to think, too, are there other ways that are less intrusive. >> that was president obama over the weekend responding to the public outcry over the new airport screening devices. an aggressive manual pat downs, tsa minister jotold matt lauer today -- >> are you now actively rethinking this policy? >> we constantly evaluate our protocals in light of the latest intelligence. we'll look at how can we do the most effective screening knowing there's a tradeoff that we talked about, that tradeoff between security and privacy. >> he's a former fbi
counterterrorism agent -- i saw him this morning on savannah guthrie. ginger is assistant council for the privacy center, she's suing the department of homeland security to suspend the program. what i loved about this this morning is how clear you were. if i went to national airport, you tell me what you face if you travel this visit a relative this weekend. >> if you travel this weekend and i've traveled a lot over the past two weeks, and have not been suggest to a pat down. if you trigger a sensor, you'll be asked to go to secondary. secondary may include advanced imaging technology and you'll go through that protocal.
if you opt out of advanced imaging technology, you'll be suggest to a patdown as has been discussed for the last week or so. >> in washington, it's somewhat different and i go about 200 times a year through reagan international airport. most of the time, you get the regular metal detector, but you might find yourself in a line that goes through the new image scanner. is that the way you see it? >> yeah. >> what do you think we should be doing to check people at airports? >> no, what should we be doing? >> focusing more on lawfully gathering intelligence. >> on everybody? >> like last year, we had the intelligence we needed. >> i'm asking you a serious question. we have thousands of people in line every day, what do we do with those people to make sure they are not a danger.
>> yes, we focus on developing technology that respects privacy while also giving us security. these body scanners do neither. >> what do we do to check on those people in line. >> you can use technology, atr. automated threat -- >> what is that? >> something that's being put in place in airports around the world. tsa is working on this technology. instead of displaying a naked image of a traveler, it displays an avatar. >> but we don't have that technology. >> it is been developed and is continuing to be developed. we need to ensure it's not just overlaid on these machines that can store and transfer. >> can we do this today? >> yes, we can, it's in airports in the netherlands. >> are you familiar with this technology? >> i am with some form of this, but she does have a good point.
it's about intelligence and we should be looking at the traveling public. what we should be leaning toward is a trusted traveler program where people are willing to submit to higher sk eer scrutin having a background check, which will scan their hand, their retina. >> i heard that airlines do that because they hate that. they want to be able to charge you for business class or first class and then they can chashlg you more to get in a shorter line. they don't want somebody saying, here's your card, you should be able to get on that plane fast. is that true? they want you to pay to get in a shorter line? >> i don't know that that's true. i can say being a registered traveler with global entry, that i had to pay $100 for five years. it's worth it to me. it does not mean you bypass screening. they still look at your bags for
prohibited items. >> i'm one that really doesn't care. i travel constantly. i know we're in a world of danger. it's going to get worse and worse. i will argue to this and this is an argument. your first time on the show, that if we get hit again, we're going to have a much tougher, whatever you call it, profiling, people really looking for the bad guy us and they're not going to be so nice about it because the minute we let people through and blow up a plane because we're trying to be nice about it. why don't we go through this question. is it is smart thing to do to look for the bombers, not the bomb. shouldn't you focus more on people who have been to other countries and against us, in the middle east, where there's a lot of travelers. shouldn't we be looking for these kinds of people? all t i'm talking about looking for
people from the problem areas. can we do that? >> i think we can do that. i think we should do that, we should be focusing on the human element. we should be looking at travel paters patterns, histories. i know that profiling is a bad word in this country, but human beings cause terrorism to occur. >> well, i would be totally against as any american should because they're dark skinned or anything else about them, but you go through their documents, where they've come from, their nationality a fair game. you think it's fair game? >> no. you're dealing with a dynamic enemy, with intelligent people. >> you don't want to go anything then? >> no, absolutely not. >> you want technology that hasn't been put online yet. >> that technology has been put
online. i want to use intelligence that exists. we had the intelligence we needed last christmas and importantly, these machines are not effective against powdered explosives. if you look at rapid scan's website, the procurement document that we have that tsa authored, these machines were not used to detect powders. we're using the wrong machines. >> why? >> probably because there's a lot of money that changes hands. national security theatre. >> what do you mean a lot of money changes hands? >> $174,000 each for these machines. >> i'm following you. what about the money changing hands. who's getting this money? >> probably the same revolving door -- >> dirty business here. >> there's a problem with the revolving door. people going from agencies to corporations. >> you're saying we're buying
faulty equipment -- who are you accusing here? >> michael chertoff has been shown to have ties. >> so he's in the tank with some businesses, they're doing business with the government. how about ray la hood? >> the head of transportation safety. >> not familiar. >> you're saying we have machinery now because a republican in the past had some sweetheart dole with some suppliers. >> not just chertoff. >> who else is involved? >> i'm not going to name names for you. >> we're getting to the bottom of this. you believe the united states government is using this because of corrupt deals. >> i know this machinery is not effective -- >> you're saying because michael chertoff -- was involved in this. >> that's the only reason that i can see for the united states spending $2.4 billion on
technology that's not effective at picking up the powdered explosives. >> do you know anything about this, erroll? >> i want to believe that the american security apparatus in the acting in the best interest of keeping americans safe and that the administration meaning tsa at this point, has acted with whatever information they have to rose to the level of skutny that we have now. at the end of the day, we want the right thing, which is for people to be safe and secure traveling about the country and the world. >> michael chertoff, if you're watching, i want you on the show to defend yourself. you've just accused him of corruption. >> i have not accused him of corruption. tsa has a history of buying equipment before they've actually demonstrated the effectiveness. >> why have they done it? you said because of a sweetheart arrangement. >> because of speculation. i can say that chertoff disconnected.
that came out last year. >> with whom? >> the developers -- again that's not what i'm here to speak about. >> you just did. you're on the record with accusing michael chertoff with dirty business. >> i think i would not be alone in that. >> you've made a serious charge. thank you. if it's true, it's a serious charge. coming up, "saturday night live" with a few ideas on how to feel better about the new tsa screenings. [piano keys banging] [scraping] [horns honking] with deposits in your engine, it can feel like something's holding your car back. let me guess, 16. [laughing] yeeah. that's why there's castrol gtx... with our most powerful deposit fighting ingredient ever. castrol gtx exceeds the toughest new industry standard. don't let deposits hold your car back.
get castrol gtx. it's more than just oil. it's liquid engineering. i won't. ♪ [ female announcer ] clear some snow. ♪ or spread a little warmth. [ cellphone rings ] [ wife ] honey, where are you? i have no idea. [ female announcer ] maxwell house gives you a rich full flavored cup of coffee so you can be good to the last drop. try maxwell house coffee and cappuccinos
in the tassimo single cup home brewing system. lord of the carry-on. sovereign of the security line. you never take an upgrade for granted. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i deserve this. [ male announcer ] you do, business pro. you do. go national. go like a pro.
from any social life and worst of all, it's saturday night. >> feeling lonely this holiday season? >> looking for a little human interaction? >> do you want to feel contact in certain special places? >> then why not go through security at an airport. >> tsa acts are ready and standing by to give you a little something extra this holiday season. >> spending time with a tsa agent couldn't be easier. simply book a flight departing from any american airport. when selected for a full body scan, say no. you'll be pulled aside bay tsa agent and that's when the fun begins. the tsa, it's our business to touch yours. >> now, that was -- any way, last week, sarah palin said she could beat president obama in 2012. huckabee's response, it's not so
easy. >> i think it's going to be harder to beat barack obama than republicans were thinking. he is the president, he's going to have a billion dollars starting out on his war chest. i'll tell you something else, a divided government is good for the executive brn branch. that means when the branches fight, the executive wins. >> could this guy be the one? finally, think we've seen the last of sharron angle? she said this weekend she's eyeing her options in 2012 and tells a local paper she might run for the second seat in the congress. she added she would have liked to have run a more positive senate campaign. guess she's dropped that second amendment remedy of her. wondered what that meant. was she talking about another whisky rebellion? up next, if president obama caves in, the republicans on don't ask don't tell and bush
tax cuts, will that cause him trouble with the base in 2012? you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. we have cookies and raspberries. awesome. what's the first thing to do at a tea party? do the tea. okay. i can do that. put it in your cup. ladies first. thank you. men with skirts second. introducing cisco umi, together we are the human network. cisco. love you guys.
stocks finishing micked after a turn around today. the dow ending -- the s&p 500 shedding two points, the nasdaq adding 13. big banks under pressure after the fbi raided the offices of three hedge funds. goldman sachs leading the declines today. there are concerns it could end up embroiled in the investigation. retailers are looking strong showing preholiday clothing sales up and amazon is launching
an iphone ap that will let customers order in stores. and novel is being purchased by $2.2 million. netflix will begin offering a monthly subscription plan. hp delivering better than expected earnings. that's it for now. now, back to "hardball." wanted to thank michael smerconish for sitting in for me last week. i was in rome with the new cardinal from washington. there's a giant game of chicken getting underway here in washington and neither democrats nor republicans want to swerve. democrats in congress are keeping a close eye on how
president obama navigates politically next month. will he hold the line on bush tax cuts? how hard will he fight for don't ask don't tell and will he stand firmly against republicans? thank you, gentlemen, i have great respect for you. you got through this election. this was a tough one. i think anybody who gets through this doesn't have to worry about general elections from republicans anymore. let me start with congressman kucinich. everybody knows the issue now. will the president agree to the republicans when they insist on a full extension of bush tax cuts? how does the president change the fact it takes 60 senators to approve the situation and unless the republican cuts the votes, he will face two choices. doesn't get the tax cut, the republicans give him the tax cuts or he takes hell from the
progressive base. how does he win that choice? >> i think this is time for the president to go right to the american people. who vote for these members of the senate and tell the american people he wants to deliver on a tax cut for the middle class. i think the dynamic has to change, chris. we're in a game-changing environment. after this election, the president is in a campaign mode. he has to be faced with a consequences of if he doesn't get help, he needs to go to the american people and say he wants their help awants them to contat their senators. >> congressman, what do you think he should do? he has this dilemma facing him in the next couple of weeks. >> i think he's got to play hardball. he's got to give tax cuts to the 98% and the other 2% continues to contribute to the deficit and doesn't help with the economy. he has to say it, maybe go to
maine. he just needs a couple of votes. >> he could get a couple there. some perhaps in ohio from voinivich. the question is, what does he do. you, first. do you think he has the clout to do what roosevelt couldn't do, which is to nail somebody in their district and make them switch? >> i think it's possible. he talks 98% of the american public has their tax cuts. i think he can make the case and that is democratic stand that he needs to take and if he doesn't, the bush tax cuts are an anthem for democrats and to capitulate to this, there's no difference in the parties. i got an e-mail today, this fellow said he's always a democrat, but he's not voting for barack or steve. >> back to congressman kucinich
on this question. it comes down to mid-december and the president can't spring the republicans. does he sign the bill or not? does he just accept the fact or go over christmas and the holidays sa holidays sand a, no democratic is going to agree with this. does he go that far? >> i think that he has to fight on this and i think the american people appreciate to see barack obama the fighter, barack obama when he was sworn in, who had lightening in a bottle. we can recapture that moment, but he's going to need forward momentum. if he takes that to the american people and says, this is what i want for you. that will make the difference. >> so truman, not clinton. do yu agree with that? let's go to a hot issue with not
just the gay community in the country, but the whole question progressives and where they stand on equal treatment towards open service in the military. the commission's going to come out with this report at the end of this month. we're going to know if the military supports ending don't ask don't tell. can the president put enough pressure on the senators to get to 60 again to get this to approve? congressman cohen first. >> i think he can get it through with the defense appropriations particularly if there are earmarks there. barry goldwater was for ending don't ask don't tell and the conservatives ought to be as liberal. >> congressman kucinich, do you think he can win on don't ask don't tell? the military supports change -- it's more reasonable to do it that way. a smoother way to do it. but the marines at the top seem to be against this.
can they hold that position? >> i think that the p president can set a tone here of basic fair inside. we owe them a duty to make sure they're treated like any other american and not have to be given a second class citizenship. i think the president will have support in the house as he has had support in the house on this. i think that we see the change happening in the military. that's a good thing. it may not be happening in all the service, but when somebody puts on a uniform of a country and serves proudly, that they ought to be given full rights. >> congressman cohen, you think times have changed enough since bill clinton put this up front? does he get humiliated by the center and right on this issue like clinton was when clinton took the strong stand then had to buckle? can he say i'm getting rid of
don't ask don't tell for total open service of gay people in the military, period, and i don't care who doesn't like it. >> the president has to realize when he runs for re-election, he's going to have to have his base and he's not going to get the republicans or the people against these types of things. the people who are against gays by and large, they're against health care and scream socialism. the president needs to support the people who have supported him, get his 50% and show some results and change. >> you both make a good case. harry truman may be making a comeback. thanks for coming on. up next, our republicans trying to sabotage the s.t.a.r.t. treaty of sabotage the government. one guy, jon kyl.
what's wrong with compromising for safety? this is "hardball" only on msnbc. [ tires screech ] an accident doesn't have to slow you down. from new car replacement and guaranteed repairs to 24-hour claims assistance, we do all we can to help you move on. liberty mutual auto insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?
one former presidential candidate has made up her mind about 2012. secretary of state hillary clinton remains firm she will not run for president again. asked by fox news sunday about pursuing the presidency, she said she's very happy doing what she's doing and is not in any way interested in elected office. [ technician ] are you busy? management just sent over these new technical manuals. they need you to translate them into portuguese. by tomorrow. [ male announcer ] ducati knows it's better for xerox to manage their global publications. so they can focus on building amazing bikes.
with xerox, you're ready for real business. i'm off to the post office... ok. uh, a little help... oh! you know shipping is a lot easier with priority mail flat rate boxes. if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. plus, you can print and pay for postage online. and i can pick them up for free with package pickup. perfect! cause i'm gonna need a lot of those. wow! i knew i should have brought my sleigh. priority mail flat rate shipping starts at $4.90 only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship. i was living on welfare and supporting a family of four. after i got the job at walmart, things started changing immediately. then i wrote a letter to the food stamp office. "thank you very much, i don't need your help any more." you know now, i can actually say i bought my home. i knew that the more i dedicated... the harder i worked, the more it was going to benefit my family. this my son, mario and he now works at walmart. i believe mario is following in my footsteps. my name is noemi, and i work at walmart. ♪
we're back. there are some senate republicans holding up a nuclear armes treaty with russia to keep president obama from achieving the goal that even defense secretaries and secretaries of state support. with us now, john heilemann and clarence page. here's the president in lisbon. >> i have spoken to senator kyl directly and -- i believe that senator kyl wants a safe and secure america. just like i do. and is well motivated, so senator kyl has never said to me that he does not want to see s.t.a.r.t. ratified. what he said is that he just felt like there wasn't enough time to get it done in the lame duck and i take his word. >> we think about the most important issues in the world
and one might be avoiding the still possibility of some kind of nuclear change between us and the soviet union. this is big to say the least. why is one senator standing up against what seems to be a decision by the national security establishment right and left, and left, the joint chiefs, the secretary of defense, the secretary of state, the former secretary of state colin powell, henry kissinger, hagel, ken baker, duberstein, everyone that we can think of that has studied these issues. avoid a nuclear war which is a minimal goal for this planet. why is this senator able to stop this. >> i think i'm not sure if it's just one senator. i think that senator kyl's probably not acting alone here. with senator mcconnell and the others in the senate leadership. >> why. >> well your question was very pointed. i think that he's acting this way because what republicans have learned over the last two years is opposing barack obama
at every turn whether on issues where they might agree with him substantively have paid political dividends to them. senator kyl and argument current senate republicans and the list of republican grandees that you just showed up on the screen is all those republicans, those wise old men are no longer in elective politic. fundamentally focussed on the national security of the united states and not focused on what will give the republican party an advantage. they are above politics in some sense. senator kyl is not and nor is senator mcconnell. >> let me get to another possibility. kyle seems to be in bed with the neoconservatives. all those various committees they love to be involved with. is he just an ideologue on this? something upon sheer partisan politics here. >> something of an ideologue in of the s.t.a.r.t. treat you but like john says it's hard for him to be acting on his own without the tacit support senator mcconle. >> is this part the piece-by-piece distribution.
>> it's a small piece. it's what's interesting, chris. the opponents of the treaty a number of the conservative opponents say that this particular phase is too small to be contesting. why fight over a reduction of the ceiling of 2200 warheads down to 1,500? unless you're trying to make some partisan point. >> a verification going on in this whole thing, too. >> exactly, verification is improved. remember reagan saying, trust but verify, inspectors will be able do more under this agreement but now kyl is talking about skipping the lame-duck session, pushing it back to next year, pushing it back to after so they can hold more hearings, maybe. to try to brief the new republicans in the senate, this is dangerous. this is very destructive in the process. >> i can imagine, i'm no friend of vladimir putin, i don't who know is in this country, he's an old kgb hand but what am they think in the former soviet union. one famous arizona. who held up look to be a
state-of-the-art agreement between the united states and russia on avoiding any kind of nuclear problem down the road by reducing the number of weapons providing certification, some modernization is part of this, so for the people who are concerned about nuclear strength. john heilemann, i think that this will be hard for history to write? like, how did this happen? like world war i. >> i agree and what vladimir putin will think is president obama's been weakened on the world stage and that america is not serious in terms of how it's dealing with the soviet union, or the former soviet union. and i think that you know this is actually -- this goes to your question, chris, about whether a neio conservative ideologue bent to this? i think that most neocons they read and hear from think that if this treaty goes down it will in fact strengthen the hand of putin and from their perspective probably an important thing do both on substance substantive grounds and on political grounds. >> well, going to the very point, if you're again it's an ideological crosswire because it seems to me if you're a
neoconservative or conservative of any kind you want to see stronger action by the united states. stronger than afghanistan in terms of what we're doing there. the russians are off base. we -- if we queer this deal with the russian that the point, that doesn't help anybody with an aggressive foreign policy mode. >> that's right and that's kind of the position of robert kegg and max boot. neoconservative stalwarts on foreign policy who say that this particular phase it's not worth fighting over, there's too much of potential damage here. and too little gain for either side including the conservative side. >> to looks like it's just dead in the water now. we'll not have a new start? >> well, not -- i'm told maybe the next few months now. >> and we have a republican congress coming in, more republican senators, the democrats would need with republican help 67 votes for a treaty. will they get it this year if not this year. >> if it doesn't happen this year i don't foresee it happening next year. >> is that what kyl wants. >> this a really great test case.
president obama in his state in the play that you guys just played in the bite. reach out and give the republicans a chance to cooperate and learn very quickly is they don't see any incentive of doing that. >> i think that republican voters are begin fog pay attention. this is more important than politics. >> agree. >> or bringing down obama this is the safety of this planet. thank you, john he'llman. when i return finish some thoughts about what sarah palin brings to a presidential campaign and still need to see from her if she needs to be taken seriously. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. if you live for performance, upgrade to castrol edge advanced synthetic oil. with eight times better wear protection than mobil 1. castrol edge. it's more than just oil. it's liquid engineering. it's that time of year. time for campbell's green bean casserole.
let me finish tonight with sarah palin. i've never met her and the downside of that is i lack the full picture. did she come off as phony or real in person? i can't tell you. but here's what i can tell you, she's got a dynamite instinct for the stage, and i mean it as a real compliment. sheness the connection between the figure up there under lights and the guy or woman down in the crowd. she can connect back and forth. nano second by nano second with the audience and boy is that powerful stuff. and that goes for television, too. she loves the tube, and it loves her back. given that, here's how i look at pale nin 2012. there's no reason in the world why barack obama should have so easy of a challenger next time as sarah palin. we're a great country, and should have, least try to have, great leaders. she should either show us some hard, informed thinking about where the country needs to go oor stick to the schtick she's been offeso well. enjoy the fanfare, collect the