tv Morning Joe MSNBC February 28, 2011 6:00am-9:00am EST
oscars by laying down a red carpet, getting dressed in formal wear and walking down the carpet? i should have done that stuff inside. one of my neighbors complained and the police were called and questioned me about my behavior. >> what else you got? >> glen writes tornado warnings and storms outside. freaked out >> chalk it up, rob, one more demo. women up tending to the wounds of their husband, bitten by their dogs freaked out by tornado warnings. we own that demo. "morning joe" starts right now. >> ann, i must say you look so beautiful and so hip. >> thank you, james, you look very appealing to a younger demographic as well. >> thank you. thank you. >> very exciting for both of us
because we're both nominated. >> actually, james, i'm not nominated tonight. >> come on, ann, don't be so modest. >> i'm not modest, i'm just not nominated. you know -- >> all right. >> it used to be you get naked, you get nominated. not anymore. not anymore. >> my grandma's here, too. how am i doing, grandma? >> i just saw marky mark. >> no, no, grandma. >> wow. oh, my lord. >> that's all i needed to see, i think. >> good morning. good morning, everyone. it's raining. it's dark. >> holy cow! >> it's monday, february 28th.
>> calling alec baldwin and steve martin. >> welcome to "morning joe." >> oh, my lord. >> that didn't work. did the whole thing not work? tell me. >> the biggest problem is it had to be a technical problem. >> i think i glad i am. >> the lights were so bright that james franco was squinting the whole night. >> huh? >> okay. he just looked like he was stoned. i'm not saying he was stoned. let's go to our correspondent willie geist on all matters. >> willie, assess the situation. >> it did not help that his farewell, you know, usually it's like god bless, god bless. he ended the show by going, do bongs live long. >> did you really say that at the oscars? >> i'm not going to pass judgment. >> no, no. we're talking about the look. >> the look was consistent with what you're describing. >> really? >> based on my research. >> a couple of the reviews suggest the same thing.
a "usa today" says franco appeared to be preparing for a remake of "dazed and confused." "washington post" says we know franco works hard. it turns out hosting the oscars is when he gets his rest. >> okay. >> those are the more kind ones. >> this show, mika -- >> we'll look at some of the winners and losers. >> willie geist is here and he's back and we're excited about that. >> we love willie. would you please get back in your little place there? >> you did a great job. >> fabulous. >> we really don't like when you get out -- you should have stayed in the cage. >> pulitzer prize winning historian, jon meacham on set. he went out and chopped wood out back. he brought in his work boots to show he was a rugged man. he always does this. >> blue collar weekend. it's raining in new york. >> you must have gotten that at
l.l. bean. okay. >> let's stay with meacham for a second. you know what else he did. >> what else did he do? >> he went bowling yesterday. which begs the question, obama v. meacham. who gets above 39. did you get above 39? >> i couldn't figure out the scoring. >> oh, my god. >> you don't have to. >> you're in college too long. >> i don't get the scoring either. i'm with you. >> it was ugly. it was a father/son tournament. let's just say inability to bowl is in fact genetic. >> so your son wasn't seeking -- >> the last time i bowled was in tennessee which congressman ford knows well from his campaigning day. >> harold ford jr. is with us. >> hard. >> i take it when you were wearing the cam mow hats in the '06 campaign you were bowling a lot? >> oh, yeah. we did. john and i were commenting, the state of mind when you go
bowling in tolahoma. >> we have mark halperin joining us from washington. he has elegant bookcases behind him. >> he does. that's his hotel room. he insists on an elegant library. >> did you see any oscars last night? >> watched the whole thing. >> how stoned was james franco? >> completely. the moment to me that crystallized, pardon the pun, is when billy crystal came out and everyone was like, thank goodness, a real oser it host, even for a brief moment. >> the stage hands are pushing him back on because they don't want him to leave. >> finish it out. he really, franco, i'm serious, he let down anne hathaway who is a great actress by all accounts. he just showed up on the job, let's just say -- >> she was trying. she was working out there. >> she was great. he's going to have a problem with this moving forward. >> chris licht, what was the --
who gave the harsh review you were talking about? was it a hollywood reporter? >> the hollywood reporter was not kind. >> what did they say? the worst ever? >> willie's got it. >> in what could go down as one of the worst oscar telecasts in history. >> that review is too nice. >> that's too nice. yeah. that happens here every morning but nobody's watching. >> it was bad. that's a shame. "the king's speech" -- >> oh, yeah. >> took home four of the academy awards top prizes last night, including best picture, director, original screen play and lead actor for colin firth. >> wow, that's great. >> and the oscar goes to colin firth, "the king's speech."
>> this is the first academy award and the second consecutive nomination for kol infirth. >> i have a feeling my career's just peaked. >> he's a very nice man. >> he is. >> i remember him from that -- >> we saw him at the correspondence dinner. >> the other winners included natalie portman who took home best actress for ""black swan."" >> late money was falling on annette benning last night. a lot of hollywood insiders upset she didn't win. that's exciting. i'm not a movie historian, willie, though many people believe i am. >> christian bale, the fighter. melissa leo won for the fighter, dropped an "f" bomb t. happens. >> in her speech? >> play that for us. >> i am kind of speechless. golly sakes, there's people up there, too.
[ cheers and applause ] when i watched kate who years ago, it looked so [ bleep ]. >> well, there you go. >> she was excited. >> christian bale, i have not seen "the fighter" but he's an extraordinary actor. i bet he was great. >> i'm glad at least good actresses and actors won and there are good movies out there finally. i'm going to see some. >> did you see all the people protesting in wisconsin? >> spending the night in the capital. >> i was kind of surprised more media outlets didn't cover the numbers. they're coming up on a deadline. it was a packed weekend in madison. >> yes. several hundred protesters are spending yet another into the night in the wisconsin capital
after police decided against forcibly removing them. authorities asked all demonstrators to leave by 4:00 in the afternoon so the capital could get its first thorough cleaning in two weeks. but then, the decision was to allow them to stay, saying they've been obeying the law. it's been peaceful. that comes as governor scott walker says he's remaining optimistic that 14 democratic senators who fled the state to illinois will come back to pass his budget that eliminates collective bargaining rights. >> i do believe that this is our moment in wisconsin's history. it's one of those where for year after year after year, not just the last governor but governors before, legislatures before have kicked the can. they've taken one-time fixes to push the budget problems into the future. we can't do that. we're broke, like every other state across the country. it's about time somebody stood up and told the trurnlg in this state, said here's our problem, here's the solution and acted on it. >> governors from around the country weighed in on the stalemate in wisconsin.
>> my point is simply we can do this with labor at the table instead of doing it to labor. we've shown this in massachusetts. >> this was cowardly, irresponsible. they left their state at a time when their state needed them the most because they don't want to take a vote. >> no one should walk out. they are doing exactly what we ask public employees not to do and that is to strike. >> the president is one of the greatest politicians in the history of the united states and he's quiet, because he understands that most americans know this has to be done. >> meanwhile, afl/cio president richard trumka clashed with mississippi's haley barbour over president obama's handling of the situation. >> the president in 2007 as a candidate said if this ever happened, i'd be with you. do you think he's with you. >> he's not taking on workers like scott walker is and trying to take away their ability to come together and negotiate a middle class way of life. he stands for that. >> could he be doing more? >> everybody could be doing more. >> the president is one of the greatest politicians in the history of the united states and
he's quiet because he understands that most americans know this has to be done. >> wow. obama has called the walker proposal "an assault on unions" but has said little else personally on this situation. what do you think? i think one of the issues is whether or not the senators should have walked out. i'm not sure what else they could have done. it does seem like they were voted to do their job. >> hold on a second. democrats went crazy for two years about republicans using a filibuster that was less oppressive than the one that was -- >> i don't disagree. >> that was used until what? they went from '67 to 60. for two years i heard screeching from the left about how this was an assault on democracy and, my goodness, we had an election. why don't we respect an election? and here you actually have
representatives, senators, abandoning their posts because they don't like how the elections turned out? does anybody see the inconsistency here? >> well -- >> there's an obvious inconsistency. i'm a democrat and i'm a proud democrat. i disagree with what scott walker is doing. i think he can -- you've said this on the show, it's been said, i thought david gregory did probably a better job than anyone has with scott walker in pinning him down. the unions have agreed to help pass the budget and save the money. >> right. >> at some point democrats will have to come back and vote on it. >> they have to work. >> i was critical of republicans as a democrat. democrats would be critical of republicans if there's a shutdown at the federal level as republicans will likely be critical of democrats. we have to be consistent here. i appreciate yours on it. as a democrat you have to say at some point it's time to come back. that does not make walker right. >> right. >> trumka raised good points, barber raised good points. people elect people to go to work. >> mark halperin, i have yet to talk to an elected official
around this table that can even conceive of abandoning their constituents and running to another state. i don't know how long this -- democrats can carry on with this. >> there's not a lot of public opinion survey data you can look at to get a sense of it. they don't seem to feel like they're under a lot of pressure. wisconsin is a very purple state. as much as there's a principled argument you're making that they should be there doing their jobs, they clearly don't feel the political heat. walker traveled the state, somewhat, the governor, trying to build support. in terms of the politics on the ground and the pressure each side is feeling, tv advertising, it's still pretty much of a stalemate on that level. >> and walker, though, jon meach meacham, walker has the votes. it say purple state. i would think purple constituents want their representatives to be actually in their districts. at some point i would think the democrats have to come back, just like they did in texas. >> yes. >> you know, two historical
examples i keep thinking about, one are the con federation congress after the revolution. nobody showed up because they didn't want to know anything, they stayed away. the other is when ross barnett -- >> not a bad outcome. >> the other which was a bad outcome was ross barnett going fishing during the battle of oxford. and the kennedys couldn't find them because he was out on a boat. so i just think when you, you know, the fundamental covenant of running to office in 2010, 2011 is you serve. >> right. >> so when you don't show up to play, it feels to me though you're breaking that covenant in a fundamental way. >> do you have numbers on what wisconsin voters are saying about -- it would be interesting to show local newspapers. some of them may think they're serving their constituents. >> i think they might. does anyone at this table think this isn't a last showdown over collective bargaining is an assault on the union, an attempt to bust the union.
anyone here see it differently? >> we're going back to the fundamental -- >> that's what these people are stand up for. >> the republicans who filibustered barack obama provisions fighting for? i don't understand that if the left thinks republicans filibuster a bill, this somehow subverts democracy. i heard that nonsense for two years. now the same people are saying, forget procedure inside of a chamber, just leave the state. what would you say if republicans had left for two years and said, barack obama is whatever and we're leaving. and there wasn't a quorum and no business could be done. what would the left say. >> over what issue? >> any issue. trust me, mika, a national health care program is proposed by the left, is every bit as abhorrent to conservatives as is the dend of collective bargaining to the left. >> i think they did abhorrent
things to try and bring it down. >> no, mika, you don't get away with it. >> i am not getting away with it. >> is it abhorrent then, if you think that was abhorrent for filibustering -- >> i think they did abhorrent things to bring it down. >> do you think people not doing the job they were elected to do is abhorrent. >> the people of wisconsin may be on the side of the democrats because they see this as an attempt to bust the unions. >> keep the music down. we're not going to break until i get an answer. >> okay. >> the left is not going to preach sanctimoniously for two years that republicans subverted democracy because they exercised their rights in the united states senate internet rules of the united states senate. and then have the election change the results so they're in the minority in a state and then have people flee and not have to be con front by the hypocrisy. is that not hypocrisy on the left? >> i think -- look, i always
spoken out against political hypocrisy, even with our own friends here. >> what about this -- >> when they bent the rules to get their way and stay in office. >> is this hypocrisy? >> i think this is probably a dirty pull, a low blow, possibly even complete hypocrisy. >> on the democrats' part? >> i think the people of wisconsin, especially those who work in unions are completely for what they're doing. do you hear what i'm saying? >> i do but you always say -- republicans didn't fight obama's health care plan because they thought it would help their hair grow in thicker. they fought it because they believed in that, just like unions believe what they're believing. i understand, harold, them fighting it but, again, there is an inconsistency. >> i'm in agreement with you. the only point i raise to mika's point is, it would be curious to know, when you're elected you have a duty to go to work. >> do they feel they're serving the people. >> do they believe they're fulfilling the vote? >> i'm sure they do.
>> do their voters? i'm curious about the polling. if there's polling in wisconsin that say we support that -- >> i'm sure there's some. >> doesn't make it right but it certainly gives, as you well know, you and i as politicians, that would give us fuel and give us some credibility and frankly give us some legitimacy, we believe, in what we're doing, right or wrong. >> i think the dynamic in the long run favors walker. at some point they have to come back, they have to do constituent services. they have to make sure their office is operating correctly. >> if the budget is balanced, he wins. this is a win for him. he will say i stood firm. >> interesting article "new york times" in the yesterday about mitch daniels and how he weathered this. >> how he continues to weather it. >> yes, no question. up next -- >> it's just about numbers in the end, you know. union membership keeps declining. in the end it's about numbers in the senate and the wisconsin senate as well. up next, an exclusive first look at politico's top stories
of the morning. >> chris is yelling in our ear. >> you wouldn't believe what he's saying in our ear. >> unbelievable. >> good lord. >> willie's going to walk out. >> you're going to walk out. also ahead, congressman jim clyburn and the president of the american federation of teachers randi weingarten will be here on set. the knicks and the heat had some unfinished business to set on south beach. that's ahead in sports. first, bill, seriously. >> come on, man. >> seriously. >> what are you doing to us here? >> i need to come up there and take care of the maps there for you? >> that worked out well last time. >> this is awful. >> let's chat about this. we have many concerns, tornados to worry about today, severe thunderstorms and we have ice and snow. first things first. if you're north of hartford, the providence, boston, this area from albany northward has to deal with freezing rain this morning. we're watching that starting to break out now. other concerns, pittsburgh through west virginia back to buffalo, heavy rain, potential
severe storms and tornadoes this morning. that is all going to spread to the east coast later on this morning into the afternoon. an umbrella day from new york to philly to d.c. look at d.c., temperatures up to the 60s. currently the worst of the weather is sweeping through the state of kentucky. we have tornado watches that go from pittsburgh through west virginia, kentucky, down around the nashville area. you'll see strong storms over the next couple of hours, too. so far overnight we've had five reports of tornadoes. thankfully no fatalities. the middle of the country, you clear out. it's the east coast we're concerned about. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] at e-trade, low cost investing doesn't just mean a low price. it means getting everything you need to invest for yourself, not by yourself.
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>> worst in the history of speeching. >> together they found the strength when it mattered most. >> this is the state of the union and people will be watching this across the world! let's do it. plebs of congress, distinguished guests, i know that human being and fish can co-exist peacefully. >> george w. bush, sir michael tyson, tyler perry's "the president's speech." >> that was funny. >> that was good. >> 25 past the hour. >> better than anything on the oscars last night. >> that was jimmy kimmel. >> that's true. that's not saying much. the morning papers, warren buffett sketched out an optimistic picture of the u.s. economy in his annual letter to shareholders, arguing that the nation's best days lie ahead.
he also pledged record capital spending in the coming year. in "the new york times," behind a rise in auto sales, easier credit. banks have started to issue loans more aggressively. borrowers of all types are finding it much easier to get a loan compared to a few months ago. >> "boston globe," patrick complimented mitt romney for crafting a successful 2006 health care law in massachusetts. romney care. that. >> will help him in iowa. >> it provides fresh fodder for romney's critics as he struggles to explaining why he offered a law that became a national model for obama care. >> where are they now? life is good for the rescued chilean miners who spent the weekend swimming in the dead sea as guests of israel's tourism industry. wow. >> swimming in the dead sea.
>> let's go to politico, shall we? the chief white house correspondent for politico, mike allen with his world famous playbook. >> we still don't have a list of any republican candidates. where are we headed right now? who's coming out first? >> we're headed for a shorter list than we thought. newt gingrich will probably be the first one to go out there. he'll announce an exploratory committee in the next week or so. he'll be the first credible candidate to announce which brings with it a full platform to get his message out there. newt's always got ideas but it also is going to bring a lot more scrutiny. one reason that list is so short, republicans are telling us, the president doesn't look nearly as beatable as does he just a couple months ago. you'll remember when we talked about how republicans behind the scenes were saying this nomination is very worth having. this looks tempting. when they look at how the president has recovered after the shellacking of november,
it's not so tempting anymore. mike huckabee told us you don't go against somebody who's going to have a billion dollar pile of money who won the presidency and can take air force one around to make his point. that's why one of the reasons that senator john thune of south dakota explicitly said, he looked at how this president's political ajillty and said this might be a tough environment. >> looks like a lot of republicans will punt on 2012 and wait for four years from now? >> hey, mike allen, thank you so much. mark halperin, newt's the first person out. how do you think he -- how did the profile go for newt "new york times" in the yesterday? jeff zellany, a very good, fair guy. he brought up the personal stuff which i'm sure will dog newt for a while. >> newt will be all about performance. if he performs well, he'll be a real force in this fight. if he implodes, no chance.
>> okay. we shall see. coming up, sorry, willie, that's you. i'm so used to you being gone, leaving us. let's ease into this then. i'll take this one, mika. >> do it. >> the latest out of libya, a live report from tripoli, straight ahead. plus, a little bit different story, a male cheerleader who nearly cost rick pitino and the louisville cardinals a big upset. >> don't pick up the ball, male cheerleader. >> come on, man. ♪ you know how i feel i feel like jennifer hudson but with new arms, new legs, and this smile. ♪ freedom is mine ♪ and i know how i feel i'm loving weight watchers new pointsplus program and the edge it's giving me. ♪ it's a new dawn, a new day i've got even more control now. ♪ and i'm feeling good [ female announcer ] join now for free. hurry, offer ends march 12th. weight watchers new pointsplus. because it works.
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the point that you are hearing rumors, please take your camera, go to every city in libya. everything is calm. everything is peaceful. the point of it is, there's a big, big gap between reality and -- >> libya of course in the headlines again this morning. and joining us now from tripoli, nbc news' jim maceda with the latest from libya. jim? >> reporter: hi there, mika. the late est reported here, whi is 130 miles east of tripoli, a big air base there. a strategic town. there reports for the first time that rebels have shot down a libyan military plane and
captured its crew. now, this would be obviously a huge blow to gadhafi and his regime. maybe even more so, the aimages that i believe you're seeing now, that huge anti-gadhafi demonstration where we were yesterday in zawia. we were taken out there as a public relations exercise to show the international press, okay, we're not hiding anything. we know there are protests there. these reports of bombings and strafings of the people are simply untrue. we'll take you out and show you that. what we found was the whole center of town taken over by the opposition. with a number of rebel soldiers showing off their arsenal, whether it was tanks or triple "a" artillery, you name it, a
kks, they had everything there. the strategy backfired. peace images were sent out around the world. today, people woke up, especially people here, saying, wow, this movement, this rebel opposition is closing in on the capital. it looks stronger than ever. and it looks like gadhafi is weaker than ever. so they must be sitting around today, gadhafi's people saying yesterday was a very bad day. >> wow. >> mika? >> nbc's jim maceda live in tripoli. thank you so much. check back in if you can. >> great reporting. and if you look at the headlines in the papers, "the new york times." >> it's all over the front page. >> talks about how gadhafi is losing support. rebels in libya gained firepower. >> libya inches closer to a civil war. >> "the wall street journal" talks about the headline there talks about how oil is starting to flow again, that the rebels have taken over some of the oil facilities and shipments now
once again going out. i think that might actually bring oil prices down, hopefully. >> that's another head line for you this morning. now time for sports with willie. >> willie. >> let's do some sports. >> i want to hear about the cheerleader who brought the basketball player down. >> that's coming in just a second. >> that sounds really inappropriate. >> the real event, not the oscars, the knicks, heat in miami. carmelo taking on lebron and the cavs. watch this dunk. this is from dwyane wade. for lebron james you can adjust in the air, reach back with your left hand and still throw it down. that is ridiculous. carmelo cut to the basket. the heat had control of this game early on. the knicks battled back, down by 15, bill walker hits a three. first half buzzer to give the knicks a one-point lead, part of a 16-0 run there. fourth quarter, less that two minutes left. a deep three, chauncey billups.
spike lee is in the game in miami. he's pumped. it's lebron's turn, he gets to the hole, past carmelo. look at stoudemire, blocks the layup. the heat get one more chance to tie it at the end but lebron's pull-up three does not go. knicks make a big statement, winning 91-86. >> the knicks beat them in miami. >> three weeks ago here without melo. >> that's your story. >> to college hoops. male cheerleader, nearly costing louisville an overhappen win. >> what happened? >> here you go. >> louisville gets a break-away dunk. less than a second to go. puts them up five points. the game is not over. they get a technical foul. pitt gets two free throws. >> pitt missed it and you go back to the cutaway of the poor cheerleader. luckily no one was injured.
louisville wins the game, rick pitino for gets it. >> i'm sure it was unintentional but you could actually lose the game that way. hopefully he'll learn the rules of basketball next time. >> all right. >> rick pitino watches every morning on the treadmill. >> yeah, come on, if you're a male cheerleader, keep it down here. >> oh, please. >> what else you got? anything else going. hall of fame outfielder duke snider died at the age of 84. the former brooklyn dodgers great, part of the boys of summer team that helped brooklyn take a world series tight until 1955. he hit 407 career home runs, played in the world series six times, won two championships. he was the last surviving starter from that boys of summer dodgers team. an icon to dodgers fans across the country. >> unbelievable. we haven't talked about charlie sheen yet. i cannot believe, could this guy
do more to self-destruct? he is going out of his way, mika, to blow himself up. does he not realize he still has 20 or 30 years possibly in the industry? >> i can't imagine cbs isn't doing everything they can to try and keep him on the air and help him. >> you read the reports, les munez went over to his place, said, go into rehab, take care of yourself. >> he says the problem isn't him, it's all of us. >> oh, that's -- also, mark halperin's political stories driving the stories of the week. >> because we locked a hooker in the bathroom. >> willie, you shouldn't have done that. >> keep it on "morning joe." [ female announcer ] now, give dry, damaged hair a whole new life! with aveeno nourish plus moisturize.
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>> is that aimed at, say, sarah palin, who steams to talk to people mostly on her website and not -- she discount many interviews? >> i think it's aimed at all of them. certainly when i first made that comment it was in response to a question before governor palin. if she wants to prove she's ready for this, you have to have unscripted moments. >> all right. governor chris christie on "face the nation." now time for our weekly segment, driving the week where mark halperin gives us his top political stories to watch for in the week ahead. your number one story driving the week, is it libya? >> it is indeed libya. this could blow up. it's an interesting story, a compelling story. if could be a story even if it doesn't spread to other countries this week paralyzes the obama administration, gets them off what they'd like to talk about and give the president tough choices about humanitarian relief and stopping bloodshed, even though the united states is trying to work with other countries, really only the united states can do
certain things in cases like this. >> your second story driving the week, you turn to the expected, you say, budget deal. >> we're likely to get this deal. it's clever on both sides. it allows republicans to say we're getting big cuts in the short term, not just passing a continuing resolution at the same levels but they're drawing primarily on budget cuts that the president has put out there as prorated for this short period. the question is, is this the easy deal? or is this going to build momentum for deals down the road? there's a lot of budget hurdles to get over after this week. >> you look at the tea party convention in arizona. they're becoming very impatient with republicans. can republicans just simply meet barack obama in the middle? or are they going to have to push even harder? >> look, a lost republicans in the leadership and some of the freshmen are realistic. they know they can push for all the big cuts they want in house. they have to get the president's signature. i think they'll be clearly disappointed people on the far right. i don't think the cuts are big
enough. people on the far left who think they're too big. the question is can the president and boehner and mitch mcconnell keep the deal going in the center? it looks like they will this time but the question is the next time. >> look at the republicans' potential pool for 2012. i see newt gingrich and tim pawlenty topping the list. is that possible? >> look, gingrich, looks like he'll make the first formal move with an exploratory committee. this thing has been so slow starting, you have the republican, the national governor's meeting, a lot of restlessness among republican strategists. and some of the campaign staff saying we need to get this thing under way. the straw poll is not that far from now. the iowa caucuses are less than a year away. we may see when gingrich goes, a supercharge of the process and other people with the exception of a few who are determined to wait until the spring or summer. you may see the kind of activity that four years ago we had having gone on for months at this point. >> this is late to not have a
viable candidate? >> it's very late. jon meacham, look at the process. of course, barack obama announced by this time. there is a delay but i think part of the delay we mentioned it before, is the fact that some republicans think barack obama will be difficult to beat. >> yes. i think a lot of it for all hue and cry is, except on some spending questions, there's not a whole lot that people can articulate right now that they would do differently than obama would. i know heads will explode when you say that. >> obama has come to the center, where the president accepted the extension of the bush tax cuts. he'll come to the center and meet republicans on spending cuts. there's not a whole lot over the next two years they'll be fighting on. >> we talked about this before. i think it's about the narcissism of small differences, i really do. i think there are important things we can do on entitlement reform, long-term fiscal health that we need to do. but when you go out and make
that case, you know, entitlement reform does not send people into screaming beatal mania. . >> i think some of the issues that the republicans are putting forward are issues that are connecting with the american people today. why isn't there a viable candidate behind the message? i don't get it. >> i think right now, again, a lot of these republicans think that barack obama is going to win. i think harold ford, a lot has changed over the past six months. he's hitting 46%, 47%, 48% approval rating. real unemployment over 10%. that's strong numbers to him. >> i agree. cultural and social issues at the beginning of the campaigns generally dominate, usually dominate on the republican side. it's hard to find traction around those issues. newt gingrich will have a lot of questions to answer about moral issues. he may be able to answer them sufficiently. he's focusing on the fiscal issues.
the front-runner for the republicans, mitt romney has a big health care problem if you look at new hampshire. there's a lot of confusion. this thing is long and it's a long ramp. you'll see if something comes out of it. if you're barack obama, you like where you're sitting, keep raising money and sell profits. >> nobody. >> the two biggest issues that need to be addressed, entitlement reform in afghanistan, both sides are scared to talk about. >> it's interesting. chris christie who will address it, everyone calling for him to get in the race. at this point, given the landscape you all just laid out, why would he use his capital to jump in this time? especially if it looks like barack obama will win. >> those are mark's top stories driving the week. for the full list, go to joe.msnbc.com. at 7:45, mark will be doing a live chat, open to everybody but you. >> i thought it was legitimate to ask him what he was wearing
last week. >> you may not go online. you may not be a part of that chat. >> can i ask him about james franco? >> no, you may not. this is for everybody else and not you. >> okay. >> willie, what's next. >> mark is one of the critics being tough on james franco. we'll do a little more oscars and the charlie sheen interview, exclusive clip for you. again, we -- our smile minds basically can't comprehend the god that is charlie sheen. that's the message he's putting out there. we'll play it for you. how can expedia save me even more on my hotel?
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this is how recoveries happen. everyone doing their part. this is the way forward. oh, gosh. it's finally time t. is time. >> i've been waiting. >> the wait is over. >> thank god. >> just waking up this morning. >> willie, scratch this itch, baby. >> if you're just waking up and you didn't make it through the oscars last night, best picture, "the king's speech" as expected, best actor colin firth for t"th king's speech". >> he even walked stoned. >> natalie portman won for "black swan." and two actors "the fighter, christian bale and melissa leo. >> bringing the hip and the cool
to the oscars. >> get me baldwin, said everyone. >> watch this comic duo at work. >> oh, wow. wow. [ laughter ] >> hey, marilyn. >> you got to wear a tuxedo so i wore this. the weird part is i just got a text message from charlie sheen. >> charlie sheen will get you a laugh. bring up sheen, it will get you a laugh. >> a cheap laugh. >> that was pretty cheap. let's accentuate the positives. the reviews, if you get on the internet -- >> the hollywood reporter says it was the worst every. james franco happened, man. the guy looked stone. >> he was a little mellow. >> can we say it? >> can we do a freeze frame? >> put up a freeze frame or something. >> i'm going to study. i don't know what i'm looking for. >> look at the eyes. i coached football for a couple
years at pensacola catholic high school. i'd tap them in the head. look at that. >> this was the beginning of the show, too, before he really started rip iping the tubes backstage. >> ripping what? >> ripping tubes backstage, allegedly. >> i can't really get enough of a glimpse. >> it's tough to see. >> take a look -- there you go. he just ordered four pizzas backstage. his eyes, man. poor anne hathaway. >> he was smirky and smug. you want showbiz, billy crystal, baldwin. >> you know what i should start right now? geist for 2012. >> adorable. >> let's skip the downy thing and go to charlie sheen, guys, in the control room. charlie sheen has been on fire lately. he made all the comments during the radio rant last week. he's ramping that up. he's going to be on the "today" show. we have early exclusive clips here.
>> i'm tired of pretending like i'm not special or i'm not bitchin' a total freaking rock star from mars. people can't process me. i don't expect them to. you can't process wement normal brain. >> you're angry. >> i'm passionate. everybody thinks i should be begging for my job back. i'm going to forewarn them, it's everyone else that will be begging me for their job back. >> didn't cbs have a right to shut your show down, they're reading about you partying at all hours of the night, taking drugs, alcohol, it's their show. >> epic behavior. after reading about that they observed every guy hitting every mark, nailing every line, every joke. >> oh, my lord. >> that's been his argument. why do you care what i'm doing privately? i'm showing up for work, making you tons of money. he has the number one show on
television. >> he's special? i think olivier could have done "two and a half men." >> he said i am on a drug, it's called charlie sheen. oh, that quote. >> he's playing right into cbs' hands. >> right. >> seriously, he's blowing himself up. up next, tina brown is here. thank you. and congressman jim clyburn. chuck todd live from the white house. don't go away. hi, tina. for adults, stelara® helps control moderate or severe plaque psoriasis with 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. in a medical study, 7 out of 10 stelara® patients saw at least 75% clearer skin at 12 weeks. and 6 out of 10 patients had their plaque psoriasis rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and increase your risk of infections. some serious infections require hospitalization. before starting stelara®, your doctor should test for tuberculosis.
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in my opinion, any future defense secretary who advises the president to send a big american land army into asia or the middle east or africa should have his head examined. as general macarthur so delicately put it. >> top of the hour, welcome back to "morning joe." jon meacham is still with us as is mark halperin in washington and joining the table, jon meacham just left. >> he's coming right back. >> okay. >> he's got a radio interview. >> we have the editor in chief of the daily beast and "newsweek" tina brown with us. >> hello. >> we should know, last week, the daily beast received three american society of magazine editors' award for excellence. >> how exciting. >> very exciting. >> and andrew sullivan is joining the daily beast. we have a double whammy there. >> is meacham coming back? >> yes, he is.
he has a radio interview. >> i want to talk about the -- what gates just said. he said if the united states of america goes into like let's say a place like afghanistan again, they should get their head examined. yet this secretary of defense still has men and women fighting in afghanistan, has generals saying we need to stay there for another six, seven years and, again, it goes back to what we say, militarily, strategically, keeping our troops in afghanistan makes no sense at this point, none. there is no end game other than both sides don't want to be blamed for losing this war. >> when are those who have control of the situation going to say that? everyone else is saying it. >> he just did. >> there's also the way that they're announcing now withdrawing troops. there are at times there have been vital places. now they're basically saying they're not vital, it's not working, we're pulling out.
>> right. >> it's a terrible thing for a parent whose son died there. >> did he say we're pulling out? >> no. >> did he say we're going to leave? >> no. >> can i read this. >> he's saying the truth, these are unwinnable wars, the president knows it it, the secretary of defense knows it, the republicans who are pushing to stay there longer knows it. it's disgusting. it's disgusting that these troops are continuing to do an extraordinary job, fighting, giving their all, giving up limbs, sometimes their life and yet, and yet, this is going to drag out another five years. >> look at this letter, yesterday's "new york times," just a letter to the editor. our mission was to find osama bin laden. and we failed. our mission was to defeat the taliban and we failed. our mission was to curtail the growth and distribution of opium which strengthens the taliban and we failed. my heart breaks every time i see the names of our valiant troops killed in afghanistan. our presence there is not worth the life of one more. if we had a draft, millions of
us would be marching in washington, demanding that we get out now. >> if we had a draft we'd already be out. >> we'd be gone. >> harold ford, you were in congress when we first went into afghanistan. when we went into afghanistan, actually it wasn't about defeating the taliban. it was about rooting out al qaeda. we did that. >> and finding bin laden. >> and we failed at that. >> we found him, we let him go. as far as defeating al qaeda, we defeated al qaeda in afghanistan. leon panetta says there are only 50 members. is it not time to leave afghanistan and declare victory? we're not going to rebuild the country. >> at a minimum it's time to define what our goal is and it's becoming increasing -- >> after a decade. >> at this moment. it's becoming increasingly clear that goal is hard to articulate or hard to achieve. and if that is the case, and certainly gates' comments are evidence that something is not quite right in terms of our strategy, our goals and strategy to achieve those goals. you have to begin to think that
now is the time to begin to withdraw troops in a substantial way. hopefully. i listened to the secretary and he was also, as you know, taking on some of the republican senators, including john mccain who believed we should continue to stay. >> stay longer. >> why? >> his point is now is not the time to do that. i watched mccain on a show with david gregory. he went on to say he respected gates, thought he was one of the best secretaries of defense ever but he disagreed with him. hopefully this disagreement will mature into either an articulation of a clear set of objectives or a withdrawal. >> but mark halperin, there is no anti-war movement out there right now. and because barack obama is a democrat. there isn't. there isn't the type of agitation we had while george w. bush was in there. when is a democratic party, i know the dnc stepped up. when are democrats going to step up and say, hey, we're going to be anti-war even when there's a democratic commander in chief? >> there's no sign of it, joe. as you know, except for ron paul, there's no leading
national republican voice in congress or the possible 2012 field who's raising this as an issue. it's an unbelievable failure of democracy, even if you support the policy, to not have a country robust enough to have a real debate about it outside the parameters of this show, you just don't hear it in a way. secretary gates' comments maybe will kick off people being more intrasuspective about it. right now there's a conspiracy of silence in both parties. >> outside the parameters of this show, tina, you don't hear a lot of people talking about this. >> you hear nothing. it's really, i think, obscene that you don't hear anything about it. because they're still there, like in some kind of time warp, some kind of rip van wuinkle military policy. the middle east is exploding and there's afghanistan, our soldiers stuck there in this failed policy that no one wants to admit. you wonder if obama has subcontracted policy out to david petraeus.
what is going on there? >> tina, when mcchrystal got in trouble and got booted out, we said here and anybody that follows it knows, mcchrystal was only channeling petraeus. >> absolutely. >> petraeus has always said i need to stay there another ten years. the generals believe they need to stay there another ten years and the president is playing this game, we're leaving in '11. we're leaving in '14, actually we're leaving in '17. >> now that he fired mcchrystal, how is he going to go against petraeus? >> "the new york times" reported that we're withdrawing troops from an area of afghanistan to an area where petraeus said we needed more troops. not to defend the previous policy or this policy but part of what we're trying to do is export democracy. could one not make an argument that's what's happening in tunisia, other parts of the middle east.
was the cost is the question. >> i would fully agree. but at the same time, there are those who argue that what we did in afghanistan and in iraq are producing some of the results or some of the activity in other parts of the middle east. the question i would ask, do you agree with that? i don't necessarily fully agree with that. i'm curious if you agree with that. >> i agree the combination of george w. bush's democracy push and barack obama -- >> and hillary clinton. >> and hillary clinton's speech. it's all worked together and that's great. another man or woman dieing in afghanistan doesn't forward democracy. all it does is stop republicans and democrats for taking the blame for a loss. >> willie, we can declare victory. >> i agree with you. >> and say there are only 50 al qaeda members out. >> to the point of what harold said, peter argues in "newsweek" the reverse, he said we could have waited out saddam, in a way of what you see happening in the middle east, it shows the democratic push from the grass roots would have eventually pushed him out. >> i'm not saying that, i'm just
playing devil's advocate. >> for five minutes at west point he pulled back the facade. he said this effort and others like it are futile. >> mika, what if you had a 20-year-old son or daughter in afghanistan right now and the secretary of defense just said anybody that wants to fight a war in afghanistan ought to have their head examined. you've got a commander in chief that is allowing this to go on. you have republicans who want it to go further. i tell you what, i would be out on the barricades. >> it would be chilling and i think, also i respect him greatly for telling the truth and i hope more leaders will. >> i do, too. >> i think this conversation needs to come to a close. we need to bring this in for a landing. there is no one saying that there is some imperative that we must be there. >> oh, yes, they are, they are. >> must, must, must.
what's the imperative. >> they say pakistan will fall. it's ridiculous. >> we're wrong about everything else lately, so we're obviously wrong about this. >> the afghanistan war has dragged on for ten years. the oscars a close second. >> we have a lost news to get to. which people tune into us for. >> this is news too, willie. this is the night of hollywood, hollywood's big night for the entire year and it was a disgrace last night. i want to get tina brown's take. >> i want to talk about the morality issues. >> this was the worst. >> was it the worst ever? >> there wasn't a joke there. they couldn't get a joke off. anne hathaway is just a drip as far as i could say. she's a total drip. >> you're looking past the stoned guy. >> no, no. >> you're blaming it on anne hathaway. >> i could not take her -- her self-confidence was so ill placed is what i found. i wanted her to go away.
the costume changes got on my nerves. >> unbelievable. >> we're going to go right now to our marijuana news desk. and that's usually over at cnbc. >> why are you showing me? >> he has a job at morgan stanley. protect the guy. willie geist, let's go to you. >> then can we do morning news? >> anytime people from variety, the hollywood reporter want to know if somebody was hosting an awards show stoned, they go to you. i understand you have breaking news on james franco. >> you've put that thesis out there that perhaps there were some excitement going on behind stage. >> i have. i said it on air. >> many, many americans. >> let's look at a picture just sent in by john heilemann. he saw this because it was off franco's twitter feed. that's franco, oprah and anne hathaway. the eyes are hanging low on jimmy. that's kind of his thing.
he's all squinty and smirky. >> no, that would be stoned. >> that's stoned. >> let's take a look at what tina described as the worst oscar show of all time. >> it's hollywood's biggest night! >> and it's -- [ applause ] >> it's very exciting for both of us because we're both nominated. >> actually, james, i'm not nominated tonight. >> come on, anne, don't be so modest. >> i'm not modest. i'm just not nominate. you know -- >> all right. >> it used to be you get naked, you get nominated. not anymore. not anymore. >> my grandma is here, too. how am i doing, grandma? >> i just saw marky mark. >> no, no, grandma. >> i just want to be clear.
tina is not alone here. let me read a tweet. >> tina says it so much better. >> the worst oscar cast i have seen and i go back a while. unspectacular and unsatisfying show. >> that's fine. could you characterize the cast for us? >> i think it was something to do with the little shiny lipped sort of radiant, you know, utterly devoid of any real humor. anne hathaway and this seized up, you know, completely -- >> whoa. >> the backstage bong compass tate e -- come pa compacitated his head. >> funny, poised, relaxed and smart, anne hathaway and franco
made great oscar hosts. >> mark halperin. you have a library behind you. >> i want to highlight tina's point which is vitally important for this broadcast of record in the post-oscar world. she was significantly worse than james franco. >> really? >> oh, tina. >> there's no question. >> anne hathaway was worse than james frank coe. >> mark, why do you say that? >> she was lame. >> she's adorable. >> she can be. she was lame. she was try too hard. >> i thought she was exuding luminosity. >> what about kirk douglas? >> oh, god. >> let's talk about kirk douglas. >> at a certain point you just wanted to say, get off the stage. i thought he was going to hang around and continue to do his kind of complete, incomprehensible commentary. >> that's not fair to him to put him up there.
>> that's not his fault. he soaked up the moment. >> he's great. >> but seriously, it was awkward. >> there was nothing sharp about that broadcast. >> i mean -- >> flabby. >> where is ricky gervais when you need him. >> i saw stylists talking about clothes, doing a show or something. >> they should have had the bob hope impersonator, really, to do the whole show. >> my heart soared when billy crystal appeared. you thought, rescue was at hand. >> and the old clips of bob hope. when you're seeing old clips of bob hope are funnier than what's going on on stage, that's pretty bad. wow. >> they tried. it didn't work. they didn't want to do alec baldwin and steve martin every year. >> alec baldwin, bring him back. >> if it ain't broke -- >> in an unrelated story, the knicks won last night. >> the knicks won. that's good. >> colin firth won. >> we need to talk about speaker
boehner and what he considers to be a moral issue. >> can we talk about colin firth for a second. >> sure. >> very excited he won. don't you love colin firth? >> he is wonderful. he's handsome, he's heterosexual. he's ironic. he's low key. he is a real guy. >> tina, obviously you don't hang around a lot of heterosexuals who are good looking and ironic. that's a combination -- >> welcome to hollywood. >> welcome to hollywood, what does that mean? coming up, a government shutdown is off the table for now. >> that's a discrimination against heterosexuals. >> are we any closer to a budget deal? we'll bring in representative jim clyburn to talk about that. plus, the headlines from chuck todd. first, bill karins with a check on the dreary forecast. bill? not a fun monday morning. we'll see significant airport delays. today will be like the day last week where it was warm on the east coast, when had the thunderstorms roll through and it was windy, too.
30 minute delays at philly. these delays will build as we get more passengers. freezing rain from poughkeepsie to southern new england. hartford with slow and sleet. boston reporting freezing rain. there are early morning problems in central and northern new england. the rest of the map, the green is heavy rain, sliding across pennsylvania. that will head to new york city in two or three hours along with philadelphia. you get the gist of it. today is very much like spring, a strong line of thunderstorms will end the day later this afternoon. otherwise, tornadoes, we're watching those, tennessee and ohio valleys, so far, no fatalities or significant damage. we'll keep you updated throughout the day here on msnbc. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ female announcer ] now, give dry, damaged hair a whole new life!
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i think it's despicable, jake, that you have elected officials in the legislature and i served in the legislature for 14 years and in part of leadership, that they would leave their job. no one should walk out. they are doing exactly what we ask public employees not to do and that is to strike. it is wrong. they need to get back to wisconsin, they need to go in there and vote. it is just so irresponsible. i can't imagine any of them getting re-elected the only thing you go to the legislature with is your vote. >> my point is simply we can do this with labor at the table instead of doing it to labor. we've shown that in massachusetts. the leadership i tried to bring in massachusetts is about turning to each other instead of on each other. we have had labor at the table to move these very issues and move them successfully. >> governors from across the country talking about the stalemate, the standoff in wisconsin. welcome back to "morning joe."
jon meacham still with us, tina brown as well as mark halperin in washington. joining us now from the white house, nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and co-host of "the daily rundown," chuck todd. we're watching the president's next move on a number of issues on wisconsin. will there be one? on libya and on the budget. let's start with wisconsin. the protests continue and grow throughout the weekend. folks were station in the state capital overnight. does the president plan to step back in or what is the white house's take on watching that situation? >> reporter: well, every day they seem to almost ratchet back rhetoric on wisconsin, trying to stay out of it, even more so than they were before. they sort of got dragged into it during a tv interview. and just dipping that toe into the water and now you can just tell they want -- they don't want anything to do with it. they're monitoring it closely because it is wisconsin and because this is a contagious battle. what happens here, if walker
wins, you're going to see a handful of other republican governors try and attempt similar things. so that's how they're handling this right now. because i think they're very -- they know it's a swing state. they know this is -- there is a -- there's been ratcheted up rhetoric against government workers. forget the pension thing. during this low unemployment crisis, they know this is really an effective message strategy, particularly with noncollege educated, sort of white blue collar workers who are frustrated they can't find a job or frustrated by the lack of manufacturing jobs and are willing to lash out at government workers. >> willie geist? >> chuck, you alluded to it, wisconsin say purnl state and one the president needs to win in 2012. what is the dynamic at work here? is there a danger of coming down too strongly on one side or the other? if he does have to pick a side, what's the smarter one to pick
politically? >> he's always going to pick the side of the unions in this respect. number one. i think scott walker's put himself in a position where it's going to make it much harder for many democrats at all, somehow find themselves on the side of walker. i think public relations-wise, he's put himself in a tough position. he didn't set this showdown up very well. you don't hear about the meetings he had with labor leaders or you don't hear about these things in the beginning that sort of forced him to this brink or something like that. you don't -- we don't have any idea that that actually is what happened. and the fact that it was just done within four weeks of taking office, i think puts him in a tougher position. but i think the president wants to be in the same place that he likes being when it comes to the budget fights on capitol hill or likes being on the international stage, which is a guy that can come in and be a mediator at the end. >> and about the governor of wisconsin has met with union members. he'll tell you that and say what they're worried about is not
collective bargaining, jon meacham but losing their way of life, not feeling safe about their workplace, that it might change. is there any attempt, i don't see it, to give them a sense that they will be safe but that they need to regroup on how we come to the table? there isn't the -- i don't see that conversation happening. >> well, you're being mature. >> oh! >> that throws you out of this particular conversation, i think, when you have people who are having protest slumber parties and both sides have gotten into the classic struggle here. to what extent, chuck, do you get the sense that the house republicans are watching this to see if there's any behind they can get out of it about whether a push or a shutdown would work? >> reporter: you know, it's funny you bring that up. i have found house republicans surprising
surprisingly not fully silent but muted. we have a soft mute on our tvs. they're soft muted on wisconsin. they seem tenuous, they've set out a few releases in support of scott walker, saying he's just trying to do what's right with the budget or this or that. they're not going with a club on this in the way that we know the house republican message machine, which is always effective, can do that. i do think they are being very careful and watching this carefully and realizing, let's see how wisconsin goes, so goes could the negotiations on capitol hill. >> there you go. tina? >> i was quite interested in what you thought was going to happen in ohio where governor john kasich is waging war on collective bargaining. >> it was interesting over the weekend, he made a chore to put out this statement, i am not anti-union. he would not have won the governorship if he didn't get a significant amount of support
from union folks, probably more likely private sector, the blue collar trade unions where he probably did pretty well. but still, he wanted to get that out there, trying to almost distance himself a little bit from scott walker. one of the more remarkable little factoids out of that prank cooke conversation is how kasich says he talks to walker every day. they're obviously very close. how wisconsin goes -- is this the oscars, you're raising the music, kicking me out? turn up the music, time to go. >> this is not the oscars. you're interesting, chuck, as well as our cast. >> i didn't do anything backstage. >> and i don't think you're stoned. >> a little early for that. >> you can catch chuck and savannah on "the daily rundown" at 9:00 eastern time on msnbc. still ahead, bernie madoff speaks out about everything,
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i think it's a really good goal to encourage kids to eat better. you know, i've struggled with my weight for 30 years. and it's a struggle. if a kid can avoid that in his adult years or her adult years, more power to them. i think the first lady is speaking out well. i don't want the government deciding what you can and can't eat. i still think that's your choice. mrs. obama being out there encouraging people in a positive way to eat well and exercise and to be healthy, i don't have a problem with that. >> welcome back to "morning joe." i'll second that. convicted swindler bernie madoff is serving 150 years in prison for cheating investors out of $65 billion. and now, he is revealing new details about his infamous ponzi scheme in a wide-ranging cover
story in this week's "new york" magazine. he called contributing editor steve fishman collect from prison on the phone, speaking about everything, from how he started his ponzi scheme to how he broke the news to his family. peter alexander has the details. >> i'm not a horrible person. >> reporter: he's been described as the ap pepitome of evil. bernie madoff, accused of swindling $65 billion from investors. madoff has been speaking to the media, defending himself in a series of interviews. in a taped conversation with "new york" magazine madoff says he was a victim, too, burdened by the lie he created and claims he kept secret from his beloved wife of 51 years t. was a nightmare for me, yes, of course, only for me. i was able to explain it to ruth. she's still unhappy, embarrassed. nothing was going to change that. but she feels sorry for me to a certain extent. >> reporter: madoff, again,
insists that banks and hedge funds were complicit and guilty of what he calls willful blindness as they continued to work with him without asking questions. while many investors were robbed of their life savings, madoff says some of them had to know his business was a fraud. and that they shouldn't be complaining now. >> all of my friends, all of my -- most of my clients, the individual clients all are not net losers. it was the people that came in very late in the game that got hurt. >> right. >> so did i make a lot of money for people? yeah. i made a lot of money for people. you know, did people lose profits they thought they made? yes. but did they lose capital? i'm sure, i'm confident that when this thing is all finished very few people, if any, will lose their principal. >> reporter: how did the ponzi scheme begin? he says it was almost by
accident in 1992 after several years of legitimate success. up until the last minute madoff always hoped he could escape his financial mess. >> i kept on, you know, sort of telling myself, you know, that some, you know, some miracle was going to happen or that i was going to be able to work my way out of it. okay? i just didn't know -- i just didn't know what that -- what that was. >>. >> reporter: "new york" magazine describes a family now shaerted, son mark dead by suicide, son andrew and wife ruth no longer speaking to madoff or to one another. and ruth forbidden from seeing her own grandchildren. and turned away at mark's funeral. madoff says he will never forget the day he finally confessed to andrew and mark. >> everybody was, was like stunned. you know, i was crying. >> right. >> and andy, i remember took me in his arms. you know, he felt sorry for me.
and i don't think that it had totally sunk in to everybody. mark was standing there in shock, and i said, look, you know, i just -- i don't know what else to tell you. >> wow. nothing else to tell you. that was nbc's peter alexander reporting. up next, the government shutdown may be off the table for now. but is there any budget solution in sight? representative jim clyburn will join us and don't forget to tune in tomorrow, andy cohen will be on the show. keep it right here on "morning joe." curtis: welcome back to geico radio, it's savings, on the radio. gecko: kate from mill valley, it's all yours. kate: well, i'm shopping for my first car. gecko: nice! i do hope you'll choose geico and save a good bit of cash... curtis: what color is the car? i bet you'd look great in a blue car. kate: no...actually, i'm torn between a fuel-injected inline-6 and a higher torque turbo diesel. gecko: yeah...now that's quite a quandary! umm, i mean of course you could save either way.
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our national debt is on track to eclipse the size of our entire economy this year. in other words, we're broke. broke going on bankrupt. to not address entitlement programs as in the case with the budget the president has put forward, would be an economic and moral failure. what truly will cause pain and suffering is the status quo. doing nothing and leaving our debt on its unsustainable and immoral path. >> we're going to talk about that. welcome back. 40 past the hour. joining us now from columbia, south carolina, democratic representative from south carolina, assistant democratic leader, congressman jim clyburn. good to have you on the show this morning, sir. >> mika, thank you so much. >> always good to see you. >> thank you. >> are we going to have a government shutdown, jim? >> no. i don't think so at all. i know democrats don't want that
the. in fact, we agreed with the proposal put forth, i think, thursday or friday, by the republicans, that is on the continuing resolution. that they ought to be a $4 billion additional cut on top of the 41 billion that we've already made. we are looking at that number, and we think meeting halfway on this in fact, democrats are willing to go more than halfway. by looking at alternatives to their cuts. we don't want to see fbi agents laid off. we don't want to see students losing their ability to go to school. what we would like to do is look at alternatives like some of the oil and gas subsidies that the oil industry tell us they really don't need and could well do without. >> okay. >> we can get to $4 billion in additional cuts without doing any harm. >> okay. i have three questions for you. that was the first one about the shutdown.
>> sure. >> the second one is about are we going to have an economic crisis because of the debt ceiling that republicans say they may not raise the debt creeling? >> i don't think we kang play games with the full faith and credit of the united states of america. we must do whatever's necessary to maintain our credibility in the international markets and i don't think that anybody is going to fail to do that. so the debt ceiling is always a problem. it's something we have to work through while we get things under control. we know that the debt is a big we want to reduce the debt and get rid of the deaf sits. >> i asked about what was the first thing i asked about? >> the shutdown. >> the second thing -- third,
was james franco, chemically altered last night at the oscars? that was the third question. >> oh, congressman, you don't have to answer that. >> all right, jon meacham. >> i'm not going to answer that. >> jon meacham. >> congressman, one of the things that i think has been most interesting about the libyan crisis is the immediate upshot in gas prices. and we have about once every three or four months we have some reminder that green energy might be a good idea. >> yes. >> perhaps we're a little overdependent on an unstable region. i'm just wondering, in the caucus, the cloak room, does anybody say we really should get serious about this? >> absolutely. >> and you may recall, i've been talking about this for a long time now, in fact, way back, not long after i came to the congress, i started laying out the proposals to do some alternatives to tobacco and
cotton. we have -- we know a transition taking place in many states, especially southern states. we can have new economies with alternative sources of energy. i'm a big proponent of nuclear energy. and so i think that we ought to go out and do what is necessary to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. it is messing up not just our economy here but it's also messing up our international relationships around the world. >> how serious -- we all, again, i think that's wonderfully put and we all sort of pledge ourselves, it's like going to church on sunday. we're all saved until 6:00 p.m. but in terms of actually making genuine progress, do you feel that there's a chance that we can move the needle on bringing down the dependence? >> i do think
anybody on the very wealthy end. am i missing something? at the oscars last night charles ferguson who did the documentary on wall street is an inside job and no one has gone to jail who was responsible for that hideous thing that just happened to all of us. >> what am i missing. >> what you're missing is, and nobody wants to talk about this. it's very easy to talk about the rich. >> i don't want to go after the rich. i just want them to help. the middle class entitlements, social security and medicare pose the greatest mathematical challenge, not an ideological mathematical challenge of this country. the middle class of america would rather see heating assistance cut to the poor than actually give up some of their social security and i'm talking about people in their 40s and 30s and 20s. so let's just stop talking about
the rich, let's hammer them. we never talk about it unless i bring it up. >> that's just not true. >> i listen to an entire interview. >> we always talk about the rich. >> yeah. and talk about tax cuts and sacrifices that the rich have to give. i'm telling you and you have all these people coming on saying we have to hammer the rich. i'm just telling you, that's not going to balance the budget in the long run. our structural debt comes from middle class entitlements and the next time someone comes on here and say we can tax the rich and we'll somehow be able to get out of this. that's not the case. we have to look in the mirror. >> yeah. leadership is also about being fair and feeling like you're getting fairness from your leaders, and if you are not fair you will have class warfare. >> it's the rhetoric of shame that's distasteful. >> no, it's not. the middle class is going to have to understand that the middle class entitlements, social security and medicare are
set in a way that are unsustainab unsustainable. we're taking your questions right now for driving the week in the library. just go to joe.msnbc.com. >> look who's there. up next, the morning joe football frenzy with roger bennett.tony-- a farewell long awaited. good night, stuffy. >> ( yawning ) >> good night, outdated. >> ( click ) >> good night, old luxury and all of your wares. good night, bygones everywhere. >> ( engine revs ) >> good morning, illumination. good morning, innovation. good morning, unequaled inspiration. >> ( heartbeats ) [ male announcer ] achievement: embraces mondays. ♪ achievement: loves working capital. ♪
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welcome back to "morning joe." espn soccer analyst roger bennett. roger, a brutal, brutal weekend for my red sox. we'll get to that in one minute, but first, let's start with arsenal. here's the team that was once the greatest in premiere league soccer. >> the pride of london. >> they had their chance to win their first silver and blew it. >> they needed it like a bald man needs a toupee. the 6-4, croatia and nothing at home from high altitude. arsenal responded and van persie with it. >> how did that happen?
at the end. >> it happens how it always does. terrible defense and dodgy, dodgy, dodgy goal keeping. barcelona on tuesday, will they recover in. >> you have with arsenal a team that beats barcelona, one of the best clubs in the world and then they lose to all of these lowly teams and they have a chance to finally win the carling cup. since '04? '05? >> you're a fan of the red sox so you know about beauty and fragility. they call it arsenal silent pain with the tears after the game. they play barcelona in barcelona and we'll see how the season reboundis. >> shall be there with young roger scarborough. >> how fun will that be? >> i'm jealous. i'm a soccer fanatic. >> let's talk now about the red sox or shall i say liverpool. -er pool, i really started to
believe. >> and the red sox revolution. >> they're trying to kick the football. it's over. the revolution is over. >> this is scott park. as you know westham are owned by pornographers. that's what the team owners would call a money shot. absolutely gorgeous with the outside of his foot. liverpool collapses at the bottom of the table, westham and liverpool's defense was feeble, and really liverpool made westham look like brazil. very upsetting for you, jay. >> it was actually one of the more depressing game of the year matches and what does this do seriously for king kenny who is supposed to be the great hope for liverpool? how does he lose to westham and then last week they had a miserable draw as well. what's happening? >> it proves one thing and one thing only, jay. he is not the messiah. he is an unbelievable human
being and tom warner, tom henry and the red socks have the right man. give them time and great things will happen. >> what i don't understand though, roger, west ham didn't have anybody that played in any world cup. if you look you have cout. you've got stevie g. and suarez and all of these great players that played for their national teams in the world cup and they look like one of the worst teams in the league. how does that happen? >> i. put it down to upton park, west ham's home and it's owned by pornographers. i think they were overwhelmed by the immorality of it all and couldn't perform. >> what about man u.? >> manchester united. wayne rooney elbowed a player if the back of the head in the first minute. if it was on the street and put him away in the big house for six to 12 months and here
nothing happened. he was able to go through the first goal and they're now four points ahead. i don't think anyone will catch them, but they do play chelsea on tuesday at 2:45. it's on fox soccer channel and america, take the afternoon off work. >> okay. that was one of the most disappointing stories of the year. >> thank you so much. >> the king's speech, it's a great day to be an englishman, jay. >> there were so many brits. >> every other award was a brit. >> there you go. we'll talk more about that next, tina brown. thank you as well. thank you. thank you. >> up next we'll bring in mark halpern plus "news week's" jonathan alper and randy winegart winegarten. we'll be right back. with skin relief moisturizing lotion. only aveeno has an active naturals triple oat and shea butter formula that soothes, nourishes and restores moisture.
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and i must say you look so beautiful and so hip. >> oh, thank you, james. you look very appealing to a younger demographic as well. >> thank you. thank you. >> very excited for both of us because we're both nominated. >> actually, james, i'm not nominated tonight. >> come on, ann. don't be so modest. >> i'm not modest. i'm just not nominated. >> all right. >> you know, it used to be you get naked, you get nominated. not anymore. not anymore.
>> my grandma's here, too. how am i doing, grandma? >> i just saw markie mark. >> no. no, grandma. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. welcome to "morning joe." back with us on set, pulitzer prize-winner john meechum and visiting professor at nyu, harold ford, jr., and in washington, msnbc and "time" magazine senior political analyst mike halpern joins us once again. >> oh, my lord. >> that didn't work. did the whole thing not work? tell me. i'm one of those people who didn't see the oscars. >> it had to be a technical problem. i think i'm glad i am. >> because the lights were so
bright that james franco was squinting the whole night. >> he just kind of looked like he was stoned. i'm not saying he was stoned. let's go to our correspondent willie geist. >> willie, assess the situation. >> it did not help his farewell. he ended the show by saying do bongs live long. did he really say that at the oscars? >> i didn't. i'm not going to pass judgment. >> we're talking about the look. >> the look was consistent with what you're describing based on my research. a couple of reviews suggest the same thing. "usa today" says franco appeared to be preparing for a remake of "dazed and confused." "washington post" said franco works hard. hosting the oscars is when he gets his rest. >> did you see the oscars last night, mark halpern in. >> watched the whole damn thing.
>> how stoned was franco? >> completely. the moment that crystallized, if you'll pardon the pun when billy crystal came out and the whole audience said thank goodness, a real oscar host even for a brief moment. >> the stable hands are pushing him back on because they don't want him to leave. >> franco, he really let down ann hathaway is a great actress by all accounts. >> she's trying. she was working out there. >> she's great. >> he's going to have a problem with this moving forward. >> chris, what was auto on who gave the harsh review? was it "the hollywood reporter?" >> "the hollywood reporter" was not kind. >> in what could go down the worst oscar telecasts, letting two actors host, let proved out
spectacularly unwatchable fashion on the biggest of all nights for the film world. >> it was bad. that's a shame. all right "the king's speech" took home four of the academy awards, top prizes last night including best picture, director, original screen play and lead actor for colin firth. that's great. >> and the oscar goes to colin firth, "the king's speech." ♪ ♪ >> this is the first academy award and second consecutive nomination for colin firth. >> i have a feeling my career just peaked. >> he's a great guy. >> he's a very nice man. i remember him -- >> from that correspondent's dinner. >> the other winners included natalie portman who took home
best actress for "black swan." that wasn't a surprise. money was falling on annette bening. >> a lot of hollywood insiders were disappointed, i'm not a movie historian though many think i am, this is the person that started the phantom menace. >> christian bale, "the fighter." >> and melissa leo also won for "the fighter" dropped an f-bomb. >> in her speech? oh, play that for us. >> yeah, i am kind of speechless. golly sakes there's people up there, too. [ applause ] >> when i watched kate two years ago it looked so -- >> well, there you go.
it was exciting -- >> christian bale, i have not seen "the fighter," he's just an extraordinary actor. he's great. >> i'm glad good actors and actresses won and there are good movies out there finally. i'm going to see some. >> did you see all of the people protesting in wisconsin -- >> spending the night in the capital. >> i was kind of surprised more media outlets didn't cover the numbers. they just keep swelling. i know it's happened for a while, but they're coming up on a deadline, and it was a packed weekend in madison. >> yeah. >> several hundred protesters are spending another night in the wisconsin capitol after police decided against forcibly removing them. yesterday authorities had asked all demonstrators to leave by 4:00 in the afternoon so the capitol could get its first thorough cleaning in two weeks, but then the decision was to allow them to stay saying they've been obeying the law and it's been peaceful. that comes as governor scott walker is remaining optimistic
that 14 democratic senators who fled the state to illinois will come back to pass the budget that eliminates collective bargaining rights. >> i do believe this is our moment in wisconsin's history. it's one of those that for year after year after year, but one that governors have kicked the can and they've push. ed one-time fixes to kick it off into the future. we're broke like every other state, we're broke and it's time somebody stood up and told the truth about the state and said here ate problem and here's a solution and acted on it. >> so on the sunday talk shows governors from around the country weighed in on the stalemate in wisconsin. >> my point is simply we can do this at the labor at the table instead of doing it to labor and we showed it in massachusetts. >> this was cowardly and irresponsible and they left their state at a time when the state needed them the most. >> we asked public employees not to do and that is to strike.
>> meanwhile aflcio president richard trumpka clashed with mississippi's haleigh barbour over president obama's handling of the legislation. >> the president said if this ever happened -- >> i think he's not taken on workers like scott walker is and taking away their ability to come together to have a middle class way of life. >> could he be doing more? >> everybody could be doing more. >> the president is one of the greatest politicians in the history of the united states and he's quiet because he understands that most americans know this has to be done. >> wow! obama has called the walker proposal, quote, an assault on unions, but has said little else personally on this situation. what do you think? i think one of the issues is whether or not the senator should have walked out, and i'm not sure what else they could have done, but it does seem like they were voted to do their job. >> democrats went crazy. >> uh-huh.
>> for two years about republicans using a filibuster that was less oppressive than the one that was used until what? they went from 67 to 60, one of the more permissive filibuster rules in the history of the u.s. senate. for two years i heard screeching from the left about how this was an assault on democracy and my goodness, we had an election and here you actually have representatives, senators abandoning their posts because they don't like how the elections turned out. does anybody see the inconsistency here? >> there's an obvious inconsistency. i'm a democrat, and i'm a proud democrat. i disagree with what scott walker is doing. you've saeb this on the show and it's been said, david gregory did a better job than anybody has with scott wachner pinning him down. they have to pass the budget and save the money.
at some point democrats are going to have to come back. i was critical of republicans and democrats would be critical of republicans if there is a shutdown at the federal level as republicans will likely be critical of democrats. we have to be consistent lear and as a democrat you have to say at some point it's time to come back. i think trumka raised good points yesterday and the people elect people to go to work. >> mark halpern. i've yet to talk to an lkted official around this table that can even conceive of abandoning their constituents and running to another state. i don't know how long democrats can carry on with this. there's a public opinion survey data to get a sense of it. they don't seem to feel they're under a lot of pressure. wisconsin is a very purple state and as much as there's a principled argument that you're making about the fact that they should be there doing their jobs. they clearly don't feel the
political heat and walker traveled the state and they tried to build support. right now in terms of politics on the ground and tv advertising, it's still pretty much of a stalemate on that level. >> and walker, john meechum walker has the vote and yes, it is a purple state. i would think purple constituents want their representatives in their districts. at some point i would think the democrats have to come back just like they did in texas. >> two historical examples i keep thinking about is one during the confederation congress during the revolution, nobody wanted to show up which lead to the constitution and the other was when ross barnett, not a bad outcome, but the other which was a bad outcome ofs ross barnett going fishing during the battle of oxford and the kennedys couldn't find them because he was out on a boat. i just think that the
fundamental covenant of running for office in 2010, 2011 is you serve. >> right. >> so when you don't show up to play it feels as though you're breaking that covenant in a fundamental way. >> do you have an argument about what wisconsin voters are saying? >> it would be interesting to see if there were local newspapers. some may think they're serving their constituents. >> does anyone at this table know this isn't the last showdown in collective bargaining is an attempt to bust the union? anyone here see it differently? >> we're going back -- because that's what the people are standing up for. >> i would be curious to see what the numbers are. >> what were the republicans who filibustered barack obama that the nation's fighting for. i don't understand why the left said if republicans filibuster a bill that this somehow subverts democracy. i've heard the nonsense for two years and now the same people are saying forget procedure inside of a chamber.
just leave the state. what would you say if republicans had left for two years and said barack obama is whatever and we're leaving and there wasn't a quorum and no business could be said. >> over what issue? >> any issue. >> trust me, mika -- trust me, mika, a national health care program is proposed by the left is every bit as abhorrent to conservatives. >> i think they'll try to do things to try and bring it down. >> now, mika, you don't get away with it. >> i'm not getting away with it. so is it abhorrent? >> i think they did some abhorrent things to bring them down. i think what i was saying to harold ford, jr., is that the people of wisconsin are on the side of the democrats. >> i'm asking you. you just gave an opinion. hold on, the left is not going
to preach sanctimoniously for two years that republicans have averted democracy because they exercise their rights in the united states senate, under the rules of the united states senate and then have the election changed the results so they're in the minority in the state and then have people flee and not have to be confronted by the hypocrisy. is that not hypocrisy on the left? . look, i've always spoken out against political hypocrisy even with our friends here. they've bent the rules to stay in office. >> what do you think? is this hypocrisy? >> i think this is a low blow, probably complete hypocrisy, but i think the people of wisconsin especially those who work in unions are completely for what they're doing. do you hear what i'm saying? >> well, i do, but you always say i mean -- >> i'm not equivocating.
>> republicans didn't fight obama's health care plan because their hair would grow in thicker like unions believe what they believe. >> i'm in agreement with you. >> the only point that i raise and to mika's point is, i would be curious to know because when you're elected you have a duty to go to work. >> do they believe that they're fulfilling it? >> i'm sure they do. >> i'm interested to know their voters. if there's polling in wisconsin saying we support that. >> i'm sure there are some. >> it doesn't make it right. as you well know, you and i as politicians that would give us some fuel and give us some credibility and frankly give us some legitimacy in what we believe in what we're doing. >> it favors walker because at some point they have to come back and they have to do constituent services and they have to make sure their office is operating correctly. if the budget is balanced, he wins. this is a win for him.
i stood firm on this issue. >> interesting article in "the new york times" about mitch daniels and how he weathered this. >> how he continues to weather it. >> yeah. yeah. no question. coming up, we'll bring in jonathan alter how the wisconsin labor fight will help the democratic base for 2012. also joining us on the set is president of the american federation of teachers, randi weingarten. and tomorrow, bravo's andy cohen will be here. that's trouble. >> you know what trouble is? gwyneth paltrow singing. >> i would agree with you on that one. >> good morning, everyone. airport delays are an issue especially in new york. an hour and a half in laguardia. the rain and freezing rain is moving through boston, providence and hartford. watch out for ice before it turns to rain. thunderstorms for pittsburgh down to west vurj virj and they'll move through philly, baltimore and d.c. as we go from
the late morning to early afternoons and be prepared for springlike thunderstorms with strong, gusty winds and tornado watch covers much of the deep south from alabama, mississippi, tennessee and areas of west virginia. so far no reports of tornados that have been too far. the middle of the country, you're just fine and rain in the northwest. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ female announcer ] now, give dry, damaged hair a whole new life! with aveeno nourish plus moisturize. active naturals wheat formulas target and help repair damage in just 3 washes. for softer, stronger... ... hair with life. [ female announcer ] visit aveeno.com to save on nourish plus. excuse me, what is that? oh, i'm a fidelity customer.
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my point is repeatedly as a former government official i know collective bargaining has a cost and when i'm cutting more than $1 billion in aid to local governments in this next two-year budget i need to do what no other governor is doing across the country. all, but a handful are cutting and we have to be unique in wisconsin, we have to give the local governments the tools and it goes beyond the 5% and 12%. as i mentioned repeatedly -- >> are you needlessly dividing your state? >> they showed us in the last two weeks that they're not going do it. >> welcome back to "morning joe." 22 past the hur. columnist from "news week," jonathan's book "the promise" president obama year one is now in paperback, get one and let's talk about what's going on. does that help in. >> i like the plug. >> it is a great book. also i love what you write in
"newsweek" discerning the truth of the story, about wisconsin, requires holding two seemingly contradictory ideas in one's mind that republican scott walker is out of mind and that the employees' unions had this coming. >> they're two narratives that will crash soon. most americans don't have aim thee with unions and even the private sector union members complain that the private sector brethren get better benefits than they do a lot of the times. despite that, folks don't like to see the rules get changed in the middle of the game and they sensed that walker is not being totally honest. it's masquerading as a budget crisis and what it is is union busting. >> it's fascinating because when on that first friday we started talking about it, was there a budget issue and my opinion, i was very blunt. i said grow up.
we're out of money. >> right. and then when the unions came out the next day and said we'll give the concessions there, then suddenly, everybody turns to walker and says okay, your move and he's still talking about any collective bargaining and it makes it look like an ideological battle more than anything. the people on the right who were up in arms with rahm emanuel who said a crisis a terrible thing to waste. he said don't use the excuse of the recession to do the ideological things and that was their argument on the right and now they're doing the same thing and they're using the excuse of a budget crisis to do the same things and some of which are necessary because the unions have gotten and in some cases almost ridiculous sorts of benefits where they can double dip, get two pensions and add up a lot of overtime in the last year of employment so for the rest of their lives they get a bloated pension. there are all kinds of scams, you could call them that are
buried in some of the collective bargaining agreements but that doesn't mean you don't give them a seat at the table. >> i think for most americans it just seems like it's driven by ideology and not a concern about the budget. >> you said this is probably more about union busting than a budget deficit. what's in it for governor walk tore bust this union? if it is about that, why does he gain from that politically and what's good for him about busting that union? >> for starters, he's now a hero among american conservatives. he went from governor to everyone talking about him any it's good for him politically. within wisconsin, if he can break business as usual with the collective bargaining agreements, he does have a lot more tools to exercise control and in some ways it's a power grab. it goes back 100 years to the struggle between capital and labor and the corporate allies that he has in wisconsin,
remember, he's getting money from the coke brothers and a lot of others who want to smash unions. if they want to win here -- >> it'sa i fiver to his supporters in business, essentially. >> and it gives him more flexibility. >> you saw "the times" article and what happened in indiana where mitch daniels did this five years ago and he's been able to completely reorganize indiana state government and privatize food services for prisons and able to consolidate and basically he's got a flexibility now that he didn't have and he claims it saved him hundreds of millions of dollars. >> a lot of people don't understand when they see where is the middle ground with the
whole collective bargaining idea. have there been analogous situations where people can get a better deal for the broad public and not lose that fundamental hard one right? >> well, i think they have to start by negotiating for the middle ground and my problem with governor walker's position is is he doesn't want to negotiate. he wants to dictate. >> right. >> even though i'm in this movie waiting for superman trashing the national education association and i've got some real problems with the way unions have been operating in recent years in this country and not withstanding that, you've got to let them sit at the table. and so he seems to be -- it's almost as if he's trying to lay down a marker that they don't have a role, and that's why you're seeing this pushback and why i think ultimately in 2012 this will be good for the democrats because whatever problems the democratic base had
with barack obama, he didn't get card checked for them. he didn' get a whole series of other things that organized labor wanted and about this or that and now it's really to the barricade and they know if they lose the press donees owe top of these governorships and losing the house that the democrats will lose 50, 60, 70 years. >> mick a let's talk about the political stakes as well. you have, with the public sector unions. >> they are right now holding up the entire union movement because private unions, private sector unions are down to about 7%. so public sector unions are so vital to the overall union strategy and vital to the president, vital to democrats. $200 million last year in campaigns for democrats from the public sector. that cuts both ways. >> yeah. >> you could say well, democrats are trying to protect it because that's money. well, that's also the reason why republicans want to see these
private unions destroyed. >> randy weingarten who we'll have on this show today it office with you, i believe, on friday and made, i think, what was the best argument as to why collective bargaining needs to stay at the table. i mean, what is the framework in place of collective bargaining that's going to make, honestly, the way we operate as a country and as a society different from other countries and how do we protect people and make sure they're not treated unfairly and that's what people are afraid of. they're afraid their way of life will be taken away. they don't have a voice. why can't they have a voice? >> i'm going to be killed for saying this? >> no. >> it seems -- i'm going to get so killed for this. >> no. >> this is something i don't understand. i hate to say this, but the concept of telling people that they cannot come together to negotiate with a government, it
just kind of seems un-american to me. i'm not a friend of the unions. doesn't seem like the american thing to do to say let's assemble and we can negotiate with the powerful government. >> i think you've also been very clear especially along the way on the school issue with randy and you guys have really gone at it because it doesn't work. the current situation with schools doesn't work and the unions have abused. >> the reason i bring this up. >> and the seniority out and there are a lot of changes that they need to make, but those changes should be negotiated and all it takes is the politicians to take a harder line when they're at the table. they gave a lot of way. >> jonathan, all i'm trying to explain here when i said the whole un-american thing. i think untootively, americans like myself who aren't engaged
in the union struggles who say at the end of the day, what's wrong with people coming together? why can't they negotiate? >> what's the government afraid of? >> what's the government afraid of? >> that's what we do in our country. in other countries they shoot each other. >> i just want to say to my conservative brethren, it was not an ideological comment. it was an intuitive gut reaction. i think most americans just won't get it. >> something about fairness maybe? >> i don't know. do you think the unions are going to get rid of the last in, first out rule soon? >> i hope so. they at least have to modify it so seniority isn't the totality of how they make the decisions. a lot of teachers are getting laid off because they're young. that's crazy. >> up next "business before the bell" with mark. >> that's exciting. keep it right here on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] if you've been to the hospital
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headline oil flows as rebels gain. >> it is very good news if it turns out to be true. >> oh. >> rupert murdoch does own this newspaper. >> oh good lord! look at this! >> wow! >> if this turns out to be true that's very good news because here's the thing. the biggest impact comes in gasoline. you know, if oil goes up, gasoline goes up and there's kind of a rule of thumb. every penny increase in the cost of gasoline is a $1 billion subtraction from the economy. >> yeah. >> we pay $1 billion more at the pump. so, you know, ten cents, ten billion, pretty soon you're talking real money as ed dirkson used to say so we desperately need with such a fragile, economic recovery, we desperately need oil to not get too much higher. >> mark, i was just going to
ask, the impact, let's say, we've heard some analysts say oil could go to $150 per barrel. >> that would be -- >> that would definitely put us in a double-dip recession, right? >> that would be my bet, yeah. no one knows for sure. if you told me oil's going to 150 by spring or summer then i would say okay, i'm putting my money on a double dip. >> and so we won't know, really, though, the long term of this until we figure out who's running libya and who's controlling the oil spigot, is that right? >> the other interesting thing is libya itself is not a critical part of the oil mix, but libya introduces a fear factor into the market. people are afraid. libya in itself is only a million and a half barrels a day. the fear is that it spreads. so as long as this doesn't go
beyond libya, we should be okay. by the way, i hear the music. the other big story today is warren buffett sent a letter to his shareholders and said i'm itching to pull the trigger to buy stuff. so we can look forward to buffett being very bullish about companies in america and maybe buying a few. >> isn't that strange, though, mark? if you look at the news from last week. the numbers weren't good. if you looked at durable goods, they were down and if you look at the other numbers. warren buffett's optimism doesn't seem to be lined up with the numbers we're seeing. >> well, we have kind of a bifurcation, if you will, a dichotomy in that if you look at the labor market and the housing market, you would think we're deep in a recession. >> yeah. but if you look at corporate profits you would think boy, everyone's on easy street.
buffett's on easy street. >> mark, thank you, by the way. he brought up housing. housing prices, durable goods and the worst in three years, those aren't positive indicates. >> i hope he knows something we don't. . up next we'll bring in randi weingart tone discuss everything from wisconsin labor pains to from wisconsin labor pains to teacher tenure. out there about retirement. ere are a lot ofs let fidelity help you find the answers. our investment professionals work with you to help you make the most of your retirement and enjoy the life you've saved for. fidelity investments. where leading companies and millions of people go to get the real answers they need. call today. new aveeno positively radiant tinted moisturizers, with scientifically proven soy complex and natural minerals give you sheer coverage instantly, then go on, to even skin tone in four weeks.
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my predecessor, governor corzine stood on the front steps of the capitol at a public sector union rally and said i'll fight to get you a good contract and i thought to myself, who is he fighting with in once he says that, the fight's over. what i believe in is true, ader have sarial, collective bargaining. >> welcome back. 42 past the hour. joining the table, the president of the american federation of teachers, randi weingarten. randi, good to have you back and at the table this time.
>> randi, a lot of talk about last in, first out. a lot of criticism that some of the youngest, most promising teachers will be the first laid off in tough economic times. you're bringing ken feinberg onboard and the union is trying to get around that, right? >> essentially. >> look. all of these issues about teacher performance start with the issue of teacher evaluation, right. >> which we've spoken at at this table about how broken it was. so ultimately you need to have a teacher evaluation system first and foremost because then what you can do is you can both evaluate teachers, assess them, help them improve and if necessary remove them. >> what's ken feinberg doing in association with the teachers. >> so this is what has happened. first, we proposed comprehensive teacher evaluation system. we asked at the time last january for feinberg to see if
he could help us figure out how to take due process which had become glacial and make it fair and fast. he just did that in january. he said in any misconduct case, you can do these cases in three months, 100 days and what we did is we took that and said okay, have an evaluation system and then an improvement process and if not, you know, we have to take the tough stuff -- the tough steps to remove teachers, but do it fairly. >> misbehavior in the classroom by teachers. >> no, we're talking about performance, too, but this is -- >> it's about success with students. >> so this is what we figured out is that when you have -- when you don't have evaluation systems the hearing becomes the evaluation and how can an arbitrator be the one who is adjudicating performance? >> you need a framework. >> and so let me just say this
whole issue about seniority becomes a moot point. washington d.c. had the right to lay off anybody they wanted to layoff in years, it didn't help improve the school system. what we're having right now is we have a budget crisis and what i would wish and i give the mayor a lot of props for the op ed today, but i would wish that the mayor would use some of the $3 billion of the surplus to deal with this issue and negotiate an evaluation system. >> we have questions for you. >> sorry. >> washington had a lot of other problems and i'm not sure how relevant that is. >> correct. >> you've made some good progress here and given good speeches on evaluation, but the question of seniority is still very much on the table because as i understand it it, you're still defending the idea, correct me if i'm wrong, that if you've been in the classroom a long time irrespective if of whether you're an outstanding teacher that you won't get laid off and the young, terrific teacher who has only been there
three or four years will get laid off. the question is how do you fundamentally change that so you have an evaluation system where seniority is only one of three or four factors that determine whether you get laid off or not? >> actually, in an evaluation system, seniority doesn't count in terms of evaluations. what i'm saying is that in the normal course of things, this is a moot point. the reason that this is so agonizing right now is that ultimately, if you're talking about laying off, 5,000 teachers in new york city, that is going to hurt students one way or the other, because ultimately teachers are in classrooms. >> what is a moot point? >> what i'm saying is -- >> this seems to be the problem that for the past 50 years we have not been rewarding good
teachers and not punishing bad teachers. >> what i'm saying, joe, is this, when it comes down to -- if you're focused on teacher quality it all comes down to how are we preparing and evaluating teachers? >> right. >> ultimately for two years on this -- >> i want to know philosophically. philosophically, do you believe it is a moot point, if there is not a budget crisis, for americans to be able to know that they have a public system that actually rewards success in the classroom? our punishment is failure in the classro classroom. >> no. i think you're right. you're right. what i'm saying is that the issue of seniority becomes a red herring in a normal situation because in a normal situation, unfortunately, this is where we have an epidemic. we don't have an epidemic of bad teachers. we have an epidemic of good teachers leaving the classroom because of the huge attrition rates. ultimately, what i'm aing is if you have a real evaluation system like we're trying to do in hundreds of districts.
the difference between what chris christie said is we should use collective bargaining for good and that's what they're doing right now and you're starting to see what we're doing. >> you used the word red herring which i love, but i'm not sure about the context of this, randi because right now americans are really upset over joe's point, that seniority is not a matter of how you handle things in a budget crisis, but whether we are rewarding performance, and the big question i have for you is how can the unions and particularly the nea which has been much worse on this issue. how can they be trusted, you be trusted to implement reform proposals that you've resisted for a quarter century. >> jonathan, you know that even when i was in new york in the mid-2 thousand thoughss, i said it to the chancellor and to the mayor, stop it already, they
wouldn't let us do that, but when you have the pure processes they police us better. >> in a system of, you know, 25,000 teachers they'll have two a year all across the country in city after city after city. in the peer processes, frankly, fire about 40 to 100% of the teachers that are in there. they counsel people, but the point that you and joe are making is that i'm making the point that you're making in a different way. what i'm saying is and arnie duncan has said it and others have said it, too, if you're focused on teacher performance, let's start with the real evaluation system. right now when somebody says and i don't want any teachers laid off, frankly. when somebody says this person is better than this person. the question becomes how have you assessed that. i'm talking about you can't assess it by who you know or who the principal's favorite is.
you have to assess it by how someone is doing. you have to start with an evaluation and hundreds of districts are now doing this. >> you make sense. you make sense, you make nse. i'm just wondering that this is why it doesn't work. it is so convoluted and you can sit there and bargain and bargain and bargain and everyone can have a different framework of doing something and nothing gets done. >> except that right now, like, two weeks ago we were in denver, 150 districts were there trying to use collective bargaining in a positive way. i'm not saying -- i mean, we've looked and made and answered some tough questions. we ourselves said we can't be about glacial process. no one can use it it as an excuse. >> you're finally allowing whether students improve between september and june to be using teacher evaluation. >> yes. we're all changing. >> huge breakthrough and incredibly important. because before whether kids
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