tv The Ed Show MSNBC November 17, 2011 8:00pm-9:00pm EST
wall street tore their money. and he who pays the piper calls the tune. but exasperation isn't enough to fix our problems. that's what politicians are supposed to do. we've got an election coming up to force that one, to force them to do what we want them to do, lead us. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "the ed show" with ed schultz starts right now. good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show," tonight from new york. americans are in the streets and on the move. conservatives have declared this movement dead. they are dead wrong. the leader of the fastest-growing labor union in america has been arrested at the brooklyn bridge. "the ed show" was there. and this is the only place you will see the video of the arrest. this is "the ed show." let's get to work. >> wall street, wall street, occupy wall street! >> reporter: the 99% movement is leaving the tents and hitting the streets. tonight, reaction from the protesters around the country. >> we want to send a message to the 1% that the 99% aren't going to take it anymore. >> john nichols and laura
flanders will have reports from lower manhattan. big labor is marching. we'll talk to service employees international union president mary kay henry. and the right wing wants the 99% movement dead. >> the occupy wall street movement is dead. finished as a legitimate political force in this country. and that's a good thing. >> i'll ask robert greenwall of brave new films is o'reilly is right. in "psycho talk" nancy pelosi delivers a knockout punch to one of the republican candidates. and new polling in wisconsin has scott walker scrambling to fox news for help. >> i don't think they're going to be successful, governor, and i think it took a great act of political courage to stand for what's right. >> we'll bring you the latest on the effort to recall walker. good to have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching. the 99% movement, well, it's no longer in the tent mode. protests reach a new level of intensity and awareness today during a coordinated national
day of action with events in all 50 states. at this hour thousands of protesters are marching in lower manhattan, making their way down broadway, all the way to the brooklyn bridge. it follows a day of civil disobedience on wall street, with protesters blocking the new york stock exchange early this morning. nearly 200 people were arrested. one of those arrests was mary kay henry, international president of the service employees international union. we'll bring you the exclusive footage of her arrest shortly. although most of the arrests were peaceful, dlr documented incidents of force, including this protester who was wounded in an altercation with police. that had to hurt. new york has been the center of the protests since the occupy movement began two months ago. but the scene was similar in major cities all over the country today. in chicago occupiers staged a mass action on the streets. in l.a. nearly 100 police in riot gear arrested protesters in
the downtown area. portland, oregon saw an occupation of several banks along with more arrests. in washington, d.c. protesters marched on the key bridge, stopping traffic along the way. protesters took to the strip in las vegas. one of the cities hit the hardest of the housing market and the crisis. all across the country the voices of the 99% were being heard. >> we're frustrated. we're angry. and they can't just go about business as usual because for too long business as usual has cost people their homes, cost people their jobs, and so we're here to say we've had enough. >> the government bailed out the banks to the tune of $7 trillion and they foreclosed on our house. >> we want to send a message to the 1% that the 99% aren't going to take it anymore. >> is it worth it? >> yes. >> they're not going to take it anymore. don't you think that this movement is entering a new phase? the tent city portion of the protest, well, it's over. now i guess you could say the
action starts. and we shouldn't be surprised. you know, we've been through this before as a country. all of this happened back in the '60s. cops using night sticks. blood on the face of protesters. people being dragged and arrested. now, it's an america that we haven't seen for a while. but it's happened in this country before. just keep in mind, my friends, bill o'reilly might think that this movement is over and it's a good thing. back in the '60s the people won. and i think the people are going to win again. occupy wall street is here to stay in america. and when the protesters -- you know what happens? when they disband and they go home tonight, they're going to go home to the same conditions and the same frustrations and things aren't going to change. maybe they haven't done enough. not yet anyway. the needs of too many people are not being met. and all the proof you need is the graph that we show quite often. this is the biggest motivator. the income divide that's taking place in this country. there you see the wages over the
last 30 years of middle-class americans, right there. and it's dwindling, i might add. here come the top 1 and 2 percenters. they've gone up in income over 300% over the last 30 years. if they disband and they go home tonight, does this graph change? hell, no, it doesn't. this is why the protesters will return and numbers will grow. look, the people in iowa and wisconsin and ohio have told me within the last 30 days, you know, these hard-working middle-class average americans out in the middle of the country, they've told me face to face that they stand with these protesters. there's just too many average folks across the country that understand this divide and they sympathize with the protesters and the movement. now, washington politicians, you know, they can dress nice and look smart and say the right things in front of the camera and say they're working hard for
their constituents. but you know what? if they think that they can ride out this storm, they're not going to be able to do it. there will be an election day and there will be change. these people are going to be involved. no question about it. the officials who ignore or belittle this movement, they will regret it. like republican congressman peter king. >> first of all, you try to listen to them and they make almost no sense. these are people who are living in dirt. these were people who were involved with drugs. there were violence. there was rape. you're talking about a small number of people. you probably get more people in a mass in st. patrick's cathedral on sunday than you have in zuccotti park. >> really? king says he can't understand what these people are saying. then he's derogatory towards them. here's a start, congressman. these are just some of the issues that occupy organizers really care about. and right now they're calling it phase 2 of the movement. it's time to tax the rich. have we not talked about that in
recent weeks, recent months? it's time for the wealthy in this country to pay their fair share. it's time to end the wars the way politicians told us they were going to do. it's time to restore glass-steagall and bring some sanity and fairness back to wall street. it's time to repeal citizens united. it's time to get money out of politics. can we have elections federally funded? that's what these folks want. it's time to invest in infrastructure and education which, mr. king, your party has consistently voted down every effort to do. it's time to stop busting labor unions, whether they're private, public, five employees, or 5,000. it's time to stand and defend medicare and medicaid and social security because they're not out in the streets marching for that kind of change. it's time to stop the spending cuts and start investing in america. the list goes on and on. and if any of this stuff sounds familiar, you know what it is? have you ever heard of it
before, all the things we've mentioned here? hell, this is nothing but the democratic platform that the party adopted in 2008 at the national convention. that's all it is. you go right down the list. now, citizens united obviously happened after the 2008 convention. but you look at what they are talking about, what they're protesting about. we've been there with the party. it's called the democratic party. and so it's par for the course for republicans like peter king to call them losers and druggies and filthy and they don't know what they want. hell, we've heard all that before. the fact of the matter is this movement is not over and this movement isn't going to subside anytime soon and when these folks go home at night, when they disband, they may not be able to tent out anymore where they want to, but believe me, these protests are only going to grow in number and they're going to be a hell of a lot more often.
get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question, is the 99% movement getting stronger or getting weaker? text a for stronger. text b for weaker to 622639. you can always go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. now, you heard a very strong definition and description from a congressional member. joining me now, live from zuccotti park in lower manhattan, is a gentleman who traveled to be a part of this today. jonathan schmucker. he is a small business owner from rhode island who has been participating in the occupy wall street protests. mr. schmucker, good to have you on "the ed show" tonight. >> thank you. >> what did you see today, sir? what did you see? >> we saw a lot. i got up very early this morning. i was out here at the stock exchange. people came and assembled peaceably, and they actually blockaded every entry point to the new york stock exchange. it was a very, very energetic
morning. energy throughout the day. thousands of students gathering at union square, marching down to foley square, where the police have just estimated that we had at least over 30,000 people. so this is -- you know what i saw today? i saw the most diverse-looking social movement i think i've seen in my lifetime at foley square. it was incredible. and we're talking age, different ages, different race, people of all walks of life. really a movement that's not just speaking on behalf of the 99% but is really reflecting what the 99% looks like. and people saying hey, you know, we need a system that serves all of us, not just that serves the very wealthy and very powerful. and i think you're right, this movement's not going away. this movement is gaining. you know, people are having a hard time. one thing i saw real quick, i ran into a banker today that was holding a sign that said "get a
job." and i couldn't resist challenging him on that. i was so offended that in an economy where 10% of americans are looking for work this guy, who is an executive, is telling people to get a job. you know, how insulting can you get to everybody in this country who's struggling right now? >> mr. smucker, bill o'reilly says this movement's over, it's dead, and it's a good thing. what's your response to that? >> you know, bill o'reilly is responding to us. so i think it's pretty clear that -- the movement's -- i think really this is just the birth of the movement. this started two months ago. it's reframed the whole national debate about consolidation of wealth and power in our society. i paid attention to this from rhode island the first two weeks. i didn't think it was going to go anywhere. i was skeptical. i was with the goals. but then suddenly it was like you know what? this is really happening and i've got to do my part. i've got to get down there. i've got to help out. you know? >> well, not only has bill
o'reilly said it's dead and it's over, peter king says you're a loser, you're on drugs, and you don't know what you want. >> well, i would say we haven't won yet. we have major, major changes ahead of us. and it's going to take a grassroots force. it's going to take -- you know, this movement isn't about just this park here. this movement is about millions of americans. and we have to find ways to get people really, really active because it's going to take a huge grassroots force to challenge the power of the big corporations, the big banks, wall street that have accumulated political power for the past few decades. and they've done it under both -- over both republican -- under both republican and democratic administrations. you know, the influence of wall street money is a bipartisan issue. and we -- this movement is outside of that, acting as a force. and hopefully, we will get some change. >> jonathan smucker, appreciate your time tonight here on "the ed show." thanks for being an american.
now let's turn to laura flanders, host of "free speech tv," and author of the book "at the tea party." and john nicholls, washington correspondent for "the nation" magazine who was at zuccotti park tonight. laura, what have you seen today? you were down there. put this in historical perspective of what we're seeing. >> it was an extraordinary day. the "daily news" in new york started off by asking occupy, it's do or die. this is a movement more alive than ever. and if you want to have the comparison, let's talk about it. i mean, you talked about it at the top of the show. for 30 years inequality has been growing and the wealth and the voice and the attention have gone to those at the very top. this movement has turned that around. so of course you're going to have people in some parts of the media saying that these are just marginal folks. that's the trick. you marginalize people, ignore them when they speak quietly, and then say ooh, they're marginal when they shout. this has made a major
difference. and this difference is continuing today. that diversity at foley square this evening was amazing. it would have warmed your heart. >> john, what's going on at zuccotti park at this hour? >> there's not much going on at zuccotti park at this hour, ed. and i think that's very symbolic. zuccotti park was where this movement started. but really it has spread throughout this whole part of manhattan and really throughout the whole country. as we speak, ed, there are still tens of thousands of people up at foley square, many of them waiting hours just to cross brooklyn bridge in a symbolic protest, saying this bridge where initially weeks ago so many people were arrested, today we will walk peacefully across it. they are chanting "occupy wall street all day, all week," and they are making the bridge a symbol of that for a number of reasons. mary kay henry told me that it was very, very important that
this protest go out of the parks and to the bridges, to the streets, show where we need infrastructure invicen and i got aall when i was with mary kay henry today from a friend of mine who was in milwaukee, wisconsin, where he said that there were 400 in a way this movement has stepped out of the parks and onto the bridges and to say you know, we're going to show congress where it needs to start investing money. >> laura flanders, john nichols, thanks for your time tonight. a very eventful day in america. i appreciate you being here with us. remember to answer tonight's question there at the bottom of the screen and share your thoughts on twitter @edshow. we always want to know what you think. coming up, the president of one of the nation's largest labor unions joins the occupy wall street protesters and gets arrested. but fox news says the movement is dead. they are wrong. and later, it ain't looking good for governor scott walker in wisconsin. it's so bad he's asking sean hannity for some help. so you don't want to miss it.
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coming up, the head of the service employees international union was arrested today at occupy wall street protests. we'll look at labor's support for the 99% movement as protesters swarmed wall street. the fox newsers said the movement was dead. filmmaker robert greenwald on fox's occupy lies. a stanford university study shows the middle class is disappearing. maybe that's why the folks are in the street. and the income gap is growing. one of the study's authors is here with the details. and rick perry wants to debate nancy pelosi. now, i'd pay to see that. her response puts him in "psycho talk." stay with us. we're right back. ♪
welcome back to "the ed show." one of the biggest labor unions in the country, the service employees international union, supports the occupy wall street movement. the president of the seiu, mary kay henry, was there with the protesters today and was arrested at the brooklyn bridge. in this exclusive video, an "ed show" producer was there to record mary kay's arrest. before her arrest she explained her act of civil disobedience. >> mary kay, you just crossed the line to be arrested. >> yes. we're going to do whatever it takes to get people back to work in this country because enough is enough. >> there is a long history of people saying, you know, i've got to get arrested because people need to pay attention to how serious this is. is that really what this is about, is the act of being arrested is really a way of saying look, people have got to start paying attention to this? >> yeah. that enough is enough for working people in this country. there's plenty of money.
there's plenty of work that needs doing. there's plenty of people that want to do it. we want to put those three things together and get our country going again. and we're going to take arrests. we're going to be on bridges. we're going to stay in the streets until we get this country going again. >> let's go back to john nichols, washington correspondent of "the nation" who was there and did that interview. john, she says they're just going to keep on going. it doesn't sound like this movement's subsiding at all. but what does this mean, that the head of a union would cross the line to get arrested? does this put us into new territory? >> i think it really does. and she was not arrested just on her own. she was arrested with members of the new york city council, with community leaders, with religious leaders. and one of the things that mary kay henry and some of the other folks who were arrested said to me was they thought it was important that they do this so that people across the country knew that it wasn't just union leaders saying oh, yeah, go out and protest, go out and take the
risks, that the leaders themselves would take the risks as well. it builds the courage of the movement. it suggests that this is not just a movement of some -- you know, some folks being told to go in but everybody's going in together. and i think the symbolism was very, very important. >> well, how often is this going to happen in your opinion? and do you think it will motivate other labor folks now that they've seen a president get arrested to do the same thing? >> well, back in the anti-apartheid movement in the 1980s you started seeing some people step up, and it became a thing of honor to be arrested in an act of civil disobedience. i think we might well see some more of that. and i also think that it's not just about arrests. it is that when you see labor leaders in the front lines, when you see members of the city council, religious leaders in the front lines, that tells people this is a protest that everyone can come out and be a part of. it invites whole families into it. and i think it can't do anything but build this movement.
>> john nichols, thanks for joining us again on the program. now let's turn the executive vice president of the service employees international union tom road woodruff. mr. woodruff, good to have you with us tonight. >> thank you very much, ed. >> where does this arrest take your union? what does it mean? >> well, first of all, i'm here in place of mary kay because she got arrested. let's start with the fact that we live in the richest country in the history of the world and what's going on here is outrageous and intolerable. 30 million people without jobs, without full-time jobs that want them. over 1 in 5 children will go to bed hungry in america tonight. and it's all about the question of fairness, which the occupy movement has wakened us all up to. it is about do we want to have a country that produces a few more millionaires and at the same time destroys middle-class jobs,
or do we want to have a country where people pay fair tax, where we put people back to work? that's what we need to do in this country. >> what resourcesize your union prepared to devote to the 99% movement? >> every resource we have. every one of our members that's struggling to try to win a decent life -- >> does this mean you're going to be out there monthly? weekly? how often is this going to happen? >> daily. we were all over the country today, over 300 cities. we will be there day in and day out. this is not -- this is an attack on the middle class in this country that's been going on for 40 years. i certainly hope it doesn't take 40 years to turn it around. but we're going to be there every day to do just that. >> you know, your president, mary kay henry, who was just arrested, has said that supporting the movement and endorsing the president of the
united states are complementary but they're separate. explain that. you're the first union to come out in this election season. we're a year away, and you're already supporting president obama. and you're out getting arrested. and you say it's going to happen again. you're going to be more involved in it with more resources. how is it separate? >> look, it's president obama that put a jobs program out to put people back to work in this country. it's president obama that is better than any of the candidates. but the election next year, while it's extremely important, is not the goal. the goal is to win for working people and middle-class americans. i saw earlier on your network a stat that's just amazing. 65% of people used to live in middle-class neighborhoods. 44% do now. they are destroying the middle class one job at a time.
corporate power and the rich in this country and the politicians they control, that's what we all have to do. the occupy movement. the labor movement. we need to take this country back. and ed, the worst thing is it's what's happening to our children and grandchildren. every generation in america has lived a better life. and now we're about to turn over to the next generations a worse country. that's wrong. they're stealing the future of my children, my grandchildren. i'm angry about that. i think you're angry about that. i know our members are angry about that. that's what this fight is about, the future of this country. >> tom woodruff, bill o'reilly says the movement's dead. your response? >> i think it's just starting, ed. this day is just the beginning. i don't know -- you know, this movement will last far longer
than bill o'reilly. >> tom woodruff, good to have you with us tonight. keep up the fight. >> thanks so much, ed. debating isn't really rick perry's strong suit. but he didn't let it stop him from challenging the former speaker of the house to a debate. perry's "psychotalk" and minority leader nancy pelosi's outstanding response is coming up. and america is segregating itself by income. rich and poor neighborhoods are both increasing, which means the middle class is disappearing. we'll go down that road again tonight. we can't do it enough. we're right back. ♪
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and in "psychotalk" tonight rick perry's debate disasters have sent him into the single digits in the polls everywhere. but he wants to try again. this time with house minority leader nancy pelosi. he sent the former speaker of the house a letter saying "i am in washington monday and would love to engage you in a public debate about my overhaul washington plan versus the congressional status quo." the low-hanging fruit of the republican party when it comes to brains wants to debate nancy pelosi? okay. i think perry needs to review some of the game tape from his past debates. >> just because you have a group of scientists that have stood up and said here is the fact, galileo got outvoted for a spell. >> it was for the second amendment was it before -- he was before the social programs from the standpoint of he was
for standing up for roe versus wade before he was against verse -- roe versus wade. >> commerce, education, and the -- what's the third one there? commerce, education, and the -- um -- i can't. the third one i can't. sorry. oops. >> he sure can't. if perry can't hack it in a room with michele bachmann and newt gingrich, he certainly wouldn't be able to handle a debate against the former speaker of the house. even nancy pelosi knows the guy is a joke. here's what she said about the debate offer today. >> he did ask if i could debate here in washington on monday, it is my understanding that such a letter has come in. monday i'm going to be in portland in the morning. i'm going to be visiting some of our labs in california in the afternoon. that's two. i can't remember what the third thing is that i'll be doing. >> i want to commend the former speaker for being able to recognize rick perry's
texas-sized "psychotalk." the righties can't get the story straight. bill o'reilly says the occupy wall street movement is dead. but others say it's part of a global socialist movement. that's next. how unpopular is governor scott walker in the state of wisconsin? so unpopular he's reaching out to slanthead for some help. mike tate, chairman of the wisconsin democratic party, will join me. stay with us. the most epic da. [ crowd cheering ] hey man. three grams of fiber? yeah, i'm watching what i eat. how would you like to pay? use your visa card for a chance to win a trip to super bowl x-l-v-i for you plus ten friends. it's in indianapolis. [ morgan ] use your visa card and you could win a trip to super bowl xlvi for you and ten friends. more fans go with visa. for a hot dog cart. my mother said, "well, maybe we ought to buy this hot dog cart and set it up someplace."
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welcome back to "the ed show." the right wing loves to disparage the 99% movement. probably because they're afraid it will seriously challenge a system favoring the wealthy and the right wing's propaganda machine. here's a sampling from their past 24 hours. >> so the occupy wall street movement is dead. finished as a legitimate political force in this country. and that's a good thing. >> this is about anarchism, socialism, communism -- >> well-a what they're obviously trying to do is disrupt the
lives of new yorkers to make their point. one woman yelled at them saying are you going to feed my kids when they asked her to join their demonstration. >> i wouldn't be a bit surprised if it was not blood on the occupier on msnbc but rather ketchup or stage blood. >> we are dealing with part of now, part of the global socialist movement. >> what are we seeing here? violence, rape, arson, destruction of property, sex in public, masturbation in public, naked people, drugs, drug paraphernalia. you know, anti-americanism. anti-semitism. anti-capitalism. >> let's bring in filmmaker robert greenwald, founder and president of brave new films. mr. greenwald, good to have you with us tonight. you know who these people are. without fox you did that, what, ten years ago. they haven't changed a bit. thain not even consistent-r they? o'reilly says the movement is dead. the righties say it's part of a gloeshl socialist movement. what's your take on how they're playing this?
>> well, it's pretty clear what's going on, ed, which is the right attacks in an organized fashion if not a consistent fashion when there's a real threat of some kind. i can tell you personally, i know that i've done well when my twitter account or my facebook is lit up with all kinds of attacks from the right thing. it means you are striking a chord. and obviously, the occupy folks, the 99 percenters have made a profound difference in the way the entire country is looking at economic inequities. the entire country is now having a discussion and debate about fairness, about the way capitalism works, and about what's going wrong with the system which has so many people suffering incredibly. >> fox knows all about stoking a movement, the way they did it with the tea party. do they fear that this movement could just be a hell of a lot bigger and bring real change that they don't want? >> well, that's exactly it. this is a movement that's talking, and this is very important. it's talking about profound ways
that the system is not working. that's exactly what fox is dedicated to stopping. fox is the 1%. rupert murdoch is. roger ales are. they want to make sure that that 1% keeps their control. it's almost like they guessed our next campaign, ed, we're going to be starting, which is who are the 1%. allowing people to vote for those 1% who are using their wealth and using their power to step on the back of the other 99 percenters. and you know for sure murdoch's going to be on that list. >> well, you're a producer of films that other people don't do and a source of great information to a movement just like this. what could be produced that would maybe help this movement grow in your opinion? >> well, i think the movement's going to grow incredibly. what we're trying to do is with messaging around the 1% identify the people and the corporations that are the cause of the problems.
because it's very important if you don't have a job and you're losing your home that you understand this is the way the system's working. and there are people who benefit because you don't have a job or home or health care. we need to name those people, those war profiteers who are making 10, 20, 30 million dollars while you don't have a job. we need to name people like murdoch. we need to name the bankers and the wall street folks and connect the dots for people. this is a system. this is an order system. and people are paying a terrible price. and it's thrilling to see their courage and their guts and their honesty in throwing their bodies out there and saying day after day, damn it, no more. >> and fox news obviously throwing a concerted effort to disparage the movement and also to degrade it and label it things that it simply is not. is that going to strengthen the movement in your opinion? >> well, if we listened to fox, ed, i think we'd all be in a lot of trouble. i think the movement's going to
be strengthened because it's talking about basic and profound truths. >> yeah. >> it's talking about the fact that what people instinctively understand. 1%. that 1% is stepping on the backs. they're taking advantage. and they're gaming the system. and what these wonderful folks have done, have called attention to it in a way that everybody can understand and participate. >> robert greenwald, brave new films. always a pleasure. great work. thank you. >> thank you, ed. a new study shows just how bad the income inequality is in this country and where it's all going. the author of the study that will tell us what it really means for america. he's with me tonight. stay with us. r. so, kathryn, post more youtube videos of your baby acting adorable. baby. on it. matt, ignore me and keep updating your fantasy team. huh? jeff, play a game. turbo-boosting now, sir. dennis, check in everywhere you go on foursquare. that's mayor dennis... of the water cooler. you're the best. liz, rock out to pandora. oh, no i'm an only child. and nick, you shouldn't even be here, you can do everything from the golf course. good? good.
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i've got some more numbers for you. they don't lie. over the last 40 years this country has turned into two americas -- the super rich and everybody else. this chart is the result of a new stanford university study. it clearly shows how the middle class is shrinking in this country. the top line shows the percent of families who live in the middle-class neighborhoods dl declining. from 65% down to 44%. and of course in 2007. that was the last number. meanwhile, the bottom line shows the percent of people in either poor or rich areas, it has doubled from 15% to 31%. not only has income inequality increased, but income segregation has gone up as well. let's fast-forward to 1990. the green areas are high-income neighborhoods. the purple areas are low-income
and poor neighborhoods. and the gray sections, well, that's the middle class in this country. you know, those people that have got to have disposable income to move our economy for everybody. here's what's happened by 1990. the green, wealthy neighborhoods. the purple, the poor neighborhoods. they have taken over a significant portion of middle-class areas. it's very clear what's happening. by 2007 it was even more extreme. particularly when you look at how the wealthy areas have expa expanded. it's to wonder the occupy folks are out in the streets, risking getting arrested to fight back against a trend that's very clear. a diminishing middle class in this country. let's bring in shawn riordan. he's a professor of sociology at stanford university who was one of the authors of this study. mr. riordan, good to have you with us tonight. >> good to be with you, ed. >> what are the consequences of income inequality and
segregation in this country? what are we looking at? >> so i think there's a couple consequences we ought to worry about. one is we increasingly live in a society where higher income and lower income families don't have much contact with each other, don't know each other, and so that sort of erodes public trust. i think it also has the potential to lead to kind of very divisive politics because if you're a representative representing a middle-class, mixed income area, you want to represent the interests of all income groups. but if you're representing a wealthy or a poor area you're going to represent the interests only of those groups. and so the more segregated people are in society the more our politics are going to be divisive as a result, i think. >> the right-wing think tank, the heritage foundation, recently posted a piece on its blog arguing "economic inequality is not necessarily an injustice but rather a necessary component of any prosperous society." what's your reaction to that statement? >> well, there's probably a level of income inequality that is valuable for sort of
producing healthy competition and giving people a feeling that they can get ahead and kind of achieve the american dream. but when income inequality gets so high i think a lot of scholars and economists would agree that it actually erodes that possibility, it's discouraging to people, and it causes problems in society. >> what do you think this income segregation, why is it happening? and how do we turn it around? >> so i think it's happening for a couple reasons. one reason is obviously growing income inequality as the middle class gets smaller and the ranks of the rich and the poor get bigger on either extreme we see more separation. but i think it also has to do with housing zoning policy, the development ever kind of suburban and exurban communities where there aren't mixed income housing available. so there's a lot of reasons in addition into come inequality. >> would you agree with me, this is where i stand on it, the face of public education is seriously going to change in this country
if this trend continues. and there are some numbers to back it up. i want to mention some of these. the gap in standardized test scores between poor kids and rich kids is up 40% since 1970. now, that's a hell of a swing. and the gap between the rich and poor kids in college graduation is up more than 50% just since the early 1990s. what could these gaps mean for a society going forward? >> let me add one more number to that. 50 years ago the black-white test score gap was twice as big as the gap between rich and poor children. now the gap between rich and poor children in test scores is roughly twice as big as the black-white test score gap. it's partly because we've made good progress in narrowing the black whief-white test score gap in the past 350 years but partl because of -- i think it's going to make it harder and harder for children to achieve the american dream. because if you grow up poor the promise of america is always
that you could pull yourself up with the help of your xhient co and achieve but if the schools aren't going to help children do that and if the test scores of the rich are getting higher and higher, then they're the ones who are going to be most successful in the economy and it's going to be hard for children from poor backgrounds. >> professor reardon, may i finish this interview asking you do you think that the middle class in this country has one or two feet in the grave? >> there's still a middle class. and i think it certainly can be resurrected. >> it can be resurrected in your opinion? >> yes. >> good to have you with us tonight. thanks so much. >> thank you. >> that's encourage. we've got the latest on the recall effort in wisconsin. the numbers don't look good for governor scott walker. so where does he run to? those guys across the street.
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way. now with several of walker's own neighborhoods pitching in, allowing folks to sign recall petitions right on their lawn. that's the packer way of doing things. a spokeswoman for united wisconsin tells the associated press they've already gathered 50,000 signatures in just 48 hours. in support for the governor and his union busing efforts is collapsing statewide. 58% of wisconsin voters want to see this guy out of a job. with numbers like that no wonder walker sought to hannitize the situation. >> you balanced the $3.6 billion deficit and you were able to do it without raising taxes on the people of wisconsin and create 40,000 new jobs in just the first six months, right? >> hold on, hannity. you're glossing over a few facts here. as the associated press reported back in february, wisconsin's budget shortfall had nothing to do with collective bargaining but rather other financial obligations. walker's tax cuts in fact made
the state's ongoing budget problems worse. and since walker signed the union-busting bill into law, the state, listen up, folks, has lost jobs. nearly 10,000 last month alone. most of them from the private sector. >> now, if the unions go forward with this and the special interests go forward in this, how much is it going to cost the taxpayers? do you have an estimate how much it will cost them for this recall effort? >> well they're saying in some case up to $10 million in taxpayers' money not to mention the tens of millions they spent earlier in the year against the state senators. >> yet walker's own party didn't seem concerned about taxpayer money when they attempted to recall three democratic state senators. republicans wasted even more taxpayer dollars playing otto yonkerman style politics by running fake democrats in primaries. with three more gop state senators facing a potential recall in addition to governor
walker, senate majority leader scott fitzgerald says he'll do it again. let's turn to mike tate, chairman of the wisconsin democratic party. mike, good to have you with us tonight. how scared, how nervous is scott walker for his job? >> i think that he is incredibly scared. and he sat in actually the same exact chair i'm sitting in right now in the studio in milwaukee last night talking to fox news and just spinning tall tale after tall tale. you know, when your only friend is sean hannity, you don't have many friends left. and he is in a lot of political trouble here in wisconsin. >> walker told hannity that his union-busting bill was merely a way to fix the budget. yet back in january walker told a guy pretending to be david koch that going after unions was just one piece of the puzzle. here it is. >> i talk to kasich every day. you know, john's got to stand firm in ohio. you start going down the list, a lot of us -- there's a lot of us new governors who got elected to do something big. >> you're the first domino. >> yep. this is our moment.
>> mike, whatever happened to that moment? >> well, i think that what we've seen -- and you referenced just a little bit in your intro. we've seen there are fewer jobs in wisconsin today since walker took office. there has been incredible division in this state. over close to 60% of the people in this most recent poll want to see scott walker gone. he has -- if he had a moment he screwed p up pretty big by refusing to work with everyone in the legislature in dividing the state and really pushing a union-busting agenda that is hurting middle-class families. >> mother jones is reporting walker called for a special jobs-focused session of the legislature. now, first order of business was abstinence-only education in the schools. what does that have to do with creating jobs? >> you'd have to get pretty creative to figure out how abstinence-only education creates a single job. we've seen the so-called job sessions focused purely on social issues, concealed carry allowing people to pursue what's
called the castle doctrine, you can basically shoot someone at your front door if you're intimidated by them. absolutely nothing that creates jobs. and you know, we just had a report today, there were 10,000 jobs lost in wisconsin last month. the majority of them in the private sector. so we've got a real jobs crisis in wisconsin that scott walker's not addressing and it's one of the reasons we're having such a success gathering recall petitions. >> are you going to get the 540,000 needed to get this done? we've got 57 days left to do it now. >> 57 days. i'm very encouraged. as you mentioned, united wisconsin, our grassroots partner in this, announced earlier today that we've collected over 50,000 signatures in just the first 48 hours. there are people streaming into offices all around the state. and not just in milwaukee and madison, ed. we're talking about, you know, manaqua and rhinelander and kenosha and racine and all points in between. we're seeing a tremendous outpouring of enthusiasm. >> well, it looks like i've got to go back to wisconsin. i'm looking forward to see how