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tv   The Last Word  MSNBC  November 30, 2011 1:00am-2:00am EST

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>> the obama re-election campaign gears up as republicans cling to the dream of anybody but romney. i need you to do my a favor. it will only take a minute. the 2012 campaign is under way. >> the obama campaign is just getting started. >> it all starts with you making a decision to get involved. >> the obama campaign seems to know what it will take. >> don't sit this one out. >> republicans are afraid to attack mitt romney, so democrats show them how. >> unable to land a punch on mitt romney. >> the democratic national committee is taking a different approach. >> pinning him as a flip-flopper. >> leaving the democrats to he take the swing.
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>> the dnc did not play fair. >> do you attack romney in iowa? >> i'm a lot more conservative that are mitt romney. >> his record isn't perfect, but it's the best record of any candidate in the race. >> and in the spirit of christmas, herman cain gives his voters two newt gingrich. >> this haul say season and those 12 days of christmas, mr. 9-9-9 is getting peril yus close to nine ladies adancing all over his presidential dreams. >> no person has ever been perfect. >> herman cain was trendsing down. >> herman cain, do we bother anymore? >> there was no sex? >> no. >> a little but nutty and slutty playbook. >> part of a prediction i retracted. >> i was angry this weekend. >> but i think it's going to be romney.
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>> in just 35 days the first votes will be cast in iowa, and republicans will begin choosing their 2012 presidential nominee. today the obama re-election campaign released the first television ads with the president asking not what you can do for your country but what you can do for his campaign. >> i need you to do me a favor. it will only take a minute. the 2012 campaign is under way, and the outcome will depend not on what i do but what you do starting right now. it's up to you to fight for the values we all share. don't sit this one out. >> on wednesday president obama will head to scranton, pennsylvania, the hometown of vice president joe biden to push for the renewal of the payroll tax cut, which would temporarily reduce payroll tax from its already lowered 4.2% rate to 3.1% next year. it would also cut employers' payroll taxes in half on the
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first $5 million on payroll. it will all be paid for by people earning over $1 million a year paying 3.25% in income tax only on the income they earn above $1 million. the first $1 million they earn would be exempt from this additional tax. the senate is expected to vote on it later this week, and that bill is, of course, expected to fail in the face of unanimous opposition from republicans who refuse to vote for any form of tax increase of any amount, even on incomes over $1 million. with polls showing that voters see the president as more reasonable and more willing to compromise than republicans and with republicans locked into anti-tax after taking an oath to an anti-tax lobbyist before they
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took their oaths of office, republicans, of course, blame the president for their failure to govern. >> they look at washington, d.c., and they look at a president who is a by stander in the oval office. you know, i was angry this weekend listening to the spin coming out of the administration about the failure of the super committee, and that the president knew it was doomed for failure so he didn't get involved. what the hell are we paying you for? >> joining me now is "new york times" tom friedman, co-hift author of the new book "that used to be us, how america fell behind in the world we invented and how we can come back." and "new york times" columnist nick kristoff in the studio here with me. nick, you wrote a recent column in which you talked about the stakes in this election. i want to quote from it. you said, for a couple of years the left has joined the right in
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making obama a pinata. think back in 2000, many journalists were dismissive of al gore and magnified his shortcomes. we forgot the context and won eight years of george w. bush. this time let's doing a better job of retaining perspective. is it time for the left and democrats to mute their criticism of the president on different policy choices going guard? >> it's important to hold the president' feet to the fire and the left has every bit a right to do that as the right. i think as one approaches an election year, one faces the need to remember we're facing not a referendum but a choice. in 1980 something similar happened in terms of the malaise toward jimmy carter, if you
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will, that helped put ronald reagan in office. i think we need to be -- i think it's fine to hold obama accountable, but one has to be careful to remember the stakes and what's coming up as well. >> tom friedman, i remember back to the 2000 election. you could hear this sense among voters especially in the middle there wasn't a big difference between al gore and george w. bush and they had very little to say at that time about foreign policy, as you well know, following that election. that turned out to be what the next presidency was really all about. how would you advise voters to sort through the information that's going to be coming their way in the next year? >> well, lawrence, i really see the context of this election not so much in the american spectrum right now alone. you have to look at it in the world context. we're in a moment where you think of the world as a table with four legs, basically, the
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eu legging is potentially cracking up. the american leg is really shaky, and the india/china leg has its own problems. i think we're at a serious moment in the world where america needs to not only be more stable than ever but on its game more than ever and have its economy, okay, tilted forward to stabilize ifrts and the world. i'm not sure we can make it until january 2013 without some major disruptions in the world while we kind of sit around and sort all this out. >> nick, as democrats approach an election like this in the congress, already elected democrats and the president, think about whether they should be seriously attempting to govern or as they put it privately and sometimes publicly
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take the issue to the pub. means they'll have their vote on the payroll tax cut and they will lose and they won't mind losing because they think they will take the issue to the public in the election. they will try to win it through the election if they can't win if in the legislative process. >> i think they have to actually govern, and i think we will hold them accountable if we don't and the public will. frankly, one of the democrats' best arguments is the republicans these day aren't trying to actually govern or administer things. they're trying to block president obama, and it's a powerful argument but it vanishing if they don't try to forge ahead and achieve something. >> tom, you talked about this in your recent column. you gave the president advice to go big in the first term and campaign. you say there is a chance the president will win with 50.0001% of the vote and no mandate to do
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what needs doing. if he spends his time defining future in a credible way and offering a hard, tough, realistic path way to get there, elnot only win, but he will have a mandate to take the country where we need to go. tom, my question about that is, i don't see mandates coming out of these presidential elections. if you look at what president obama on last time, eliminating the bush bracket at the top, cutting that back up, getting different things through that he couldn't get through, even by winning a solid majority, there was no legislative mandate that arrived with him into office. >> lawrence, that may be true, but i think we're in a critical moment here. here's how i see the situation. i think the american public understands very well the kind of crisis we're in. i believe they're looking for a
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plan. as i said in the article, that has three basic characteristics. in terms of economic and dealing with the deficit and all these problems, and it's at the scale of the problem and they're looking for a plan that is fair. the wealthy have to pay their fair share and more, everybody has to pay something. they're looking for a plan aspirational. it's about making this country great again. i think that president obama could be the vehicle for that plan. there's no question what nick said is obvious. the republicans have been trying from day one to undermine his presidency. he has the bully pulpit, and you can trump that. that is to leverage, okay, the center and his own constituency and the business community with a plan truly at the scale of the problem. i think the public is there. who can predict?
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i don't know. if you can run on that ticket, a solid way out of this, i think he has a mandate if he wins and i think he would win. i think if he came out for simpson boles tomorrow, he'd blow up the republican party. several republicans have endorsed that commission. >> nick, the problems democrats have with that privately, they'll say after the election we may have to do something similar to simpson-boles and a plan dick durbin signed onto on that commission. it has real democratic support. what they would say to you privately in this re-election atmosphere, we need to exploit. how far and radically the republicans have gone in their attack on medicare, and we can't do that if we take a couple of cuts out of medicare in our proposal, xh simpson-boles does. >> i think both parties are extreme risk averse.
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one of the problems is anything you say that seems remotely on target is going to be manage use bid the other party and becomes a target. i think tom is right when he talks about the need to speak to the nation, to lay out the issues. one thing that really does just mystify me is that president obama is one of the most gifted politicians, one of the most gifted orators i've seen and they don't communicate to the public. i hope in an election year he will exercise that extraordinary gift he possesses. >> we need to talk about the difference of the politics of campaigning and politics of governing being way for complex. thank you both very much for joining me tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. >> coming up, even herman cain realizes how much trouble herman cain is in.
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he said reassess his candidacy, which means he will decide whether to drop out of the race during or after the christmas-book selling season. that's next. newt gingrich has hi romney moment, his i'm running for office for pete's sake moment. he told o'reilly last night about what he called the dumbest thing he's done in recent years. we actually found some dumber things. that's in the "rewrite." ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] everyone deserves the gift of a pain free holiday. ♪
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the cain campaign, his lawyer put out an unintentionally hilarious statement today denying everything but saying sex between two consenting adults is their own private business. he has been successful in business. [ male announcer ] all over the world, there's a battery that's relied on to help bring children holiday joy. of course, children don't really think about which battery makes their toy run, but, still, you'd never want to disappoint. duracell. trusted everywhere.
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as long as my wife is behind me and as long as my wife believes that i should stay in this race, i'm staying in this race. >> unfortunately for herman cain, there is as of now not yet any indication that his wife is still behind him and supportive of his glorious campaign for the presidency.
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indeed, all external signs today point in the opposite direction after yesterday's allegation by ginger white supported by her cell phone records that she had a 13-year affair with herman cain. cain told his staff on a conference call today that he is reassessing, his word, whether to remain in the race and will make his final decision over the next several days according to the national review. we have to do an assessment as to whether or not this is going to create too much of a cloud in some people's minds as to whether or not they would be able to support us going forth. it's also taken a toll on my wife and family, as you would imagine. yes, we would imagine. republicans are now worried about the damage cain is doing to the party. >> i think this is the most damaging allegation that has been made to date, no question
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about it. the voters will probably be shopping for someone with less trouble, with less controversy, and that's why you've seen newt gingrich rise to compete with mitt romney at the top of the polls. >> what about the herman cain allegations? >> you can't dismiss it. >> first of all, it's an old time vanilla scandal. there's no sex harassment, so he had an affair. secondly -- >> whoa, wait a minute. on top of the two weeks that have hurt herman cain in the polls, i think it chipped away at his liblgability and created doubt in people's minds. >> ed rawlins who served as the director of reagan's campaign told the huffing ton post my fear is he mashes to the beat of his own drum and he may drag it on and deny and deny and deny. the quicker he gets out the better for him and for us. the only republican candidates to comment about the troubles
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are the oning trailing him in the polls. michele bachmann said today in iowa i think they recognize that the support has really dropped out of their campaign because of those questions. john huntsman told the bob boss done globe given the bandwidth taken out, a reconsideration might be in order. joining me now from the new yorker, jane mayer, theco author of strange justice, the selling the clarence thomas. thank you for joining me tonight. >> great to be with us. >> we got an nbc news embed who tweeted tonight after catching up with her main cain on his way to give a foreign policy speech tonight. just asked cain if he had planned to leave race. responded 999, 999 we're doing fine. the man can still rhyme, so the campaign lives.
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>> well, you know, i've been debating this with colleagues since the first two women came out and politico broke the first story. i thought it was the beginning of the end right then, bullet sometimes the candidate is the last to know in a little bubble. basically i think that iron rule of sex scandals and politics is that while there's safety in numbers in most things, as the numbers rise they'll kill you in sex scandals. you get to a point where there's a pattern of activity that seems -- it just -- it gets to be so improbable that every single one of these women just wanted to come out and make this kind of thing up. >> and you saw mike huckabee saying, i think, a very important thing something about this last case that's the most damaging. the difference that i can see in this particular case is she has
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these cell phone records and that dramatic moment in atlanta where the reporter is on the phone with cain having texted him and cain calls back that number, something a presidential candidate doesn't do if it's not a number they're familiar with and not accustomed to calling very easily. this seems to have some of the qualities of the jennifer flowers episode during bill clinton's campaign which bill clinton survived. >> even it reminds me of the earlier gary hart campaign. i think it was donna rice, and gary hart said -- first denied it and said if you don't believe me, follow me. the press did follow him, and it led to him with a woman. these things are -- it's survivable for bill clinton. he was already president at the time, though. he wasn't just running. i think that even -- it's interesting that huckabee would say that the most damaging is the most recent in terms behavior because consenting behavior between adults, i
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think, is kind of in a different category for many voters than charges of harassment and unwanted sexual advances made in the workplace, which after all are treated as crimes. so it is -- it's a different category, and there's proof and the kind of thing investigative reporters can nail down. i imagine there's more proof that one can find, because the woman says she traveled with herman cain and there ought to be travel records and plane tickets people could find. >> yeah. we're still trying to find out from the national restaurant association whether the restaurant association actually pay for her travel, which raises this situation to an even more serious problem for cain in terms of misuse of funds and that sort of thing. there's no hysterical defense of cain pouring out now that we heard during the first round of this from rush limbaugh from
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others who instantaneously attacked the women who were at the center of these allegations of sexual harassment. we're not hearing that this time. are they worn out, or is it -- have they given up on cain. >> i think there's a pattern with this many numbers that people begin to realize they may look like suckers if they come out and defend him at this point. those attacks on the earlier women's credibility, though, were also a dangerous gambit, i think, in that it seems to have spurred other women to come forward and say don't do that to these women. i didn't like how he treated them. in some ways you could see the hermanator is his own terminator here. >> ginger white said when he called them liars that inspired her and her friend leaked it to
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the news media and surrounded her. it was part of the provocation that got her to go public. >> it may anger a number of female voters. if you look at how cain packaged himself, he's the straight shooter and outsider and looking like anything but. >> jane, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> glad to be with you. >> coming up, mitt romney says president obama and the democrats are frad of facing him in the general election sh but it's his republican rival force that republican nomination who were afraid of taking him on. richard wolf joins me to discuss that. newt gingrich went on bill o'reilly last night to beg forgiveness for his liberal record on climate change. that's in the rewrite. did today: supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists...
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the candidates in the republican primaries have a lot to learn from the democrats on how to attack mitt romney. that's next. conrad murray was given the maximum sentence today after being convicted in the death of michael jackson. michael jackson's friend, deepak chopra joins me to react to that news.
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>> we put together an exchange, and the president is copying that idea. i'm glad to hear that. >> obama care is bad news. >> see it all at >> at that television ad by the democratic national committee does something that most of the republican presidential candidates have not dared to do. attack mitt romney. romney responded to the ad at an event in miami this morning. >> heets the nominee. >> nare afraid of the general election. they want to to anything but me. bring it o. >> the obama campaign has thus far ignored newt gingrich, even though gingrich has suddenly surged ahead of romney in the polls. >> you said you want to focus on barack obama, and the dny just released its first ad focuses on mitt romney. why are you not on the democrats' radar yet? >> we appreciate it.
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>> thank you. >> joining me now, richard wolf, msnbc political analyst and offer of revival. thanks for joining me tonight, richard. >> no problem, lawrence. >> romney has a point that he is the candidate that as of this stage that the obama team would be least excited about facing. they would much prefer a gingrich or a more damaged candidate, wouldn't they? >> well, it's a twofer. they damage romney, or if not they get newt gingrich. your phrasing of the question is much better than romney's interpretation. they would be less excited about these candidates. don't fear mitt romney. fear is way too strong and dramatic for approaching romney right now. there's a lot of frustration among senior democrats in the chicago headquarters of the obama campaign that the republicans have not picked the low-ringing fruit that is romney's record so they do it for them.
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>> john huntsman is the one republican not afraid of going after romney. i think it's because he knows there is absolutely no chance of him to be chosen on the ticket with romney, because romney is going to practice religious discrimination in his choice and he will not under any circumstances xhooz another mormon on that ticket. let's listen to huntsman on this. >> you should be wary of any candidate who carries all the endorsement of the members of congress because there's a status quo president. anyone in the hip pocket of wall street because of all the donations they pick up like mr. romney is these days is not a changed agent when it comes to fixing the too big to fail banking system. >> can which seems to go to huntsman's problem in the primaries. that doesn't like a republican candidate. >> that channels what a tea party is talking about.
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>> this is the grassroots of republicans among democrats. what there isn't anti-wall street sentiment, the leaders, fund-raisers and donors of the republican party. his political instincts are spot-on. that's the preview of the next round of ads. mitt romney has no values. you put the two together, and honestly gingrich will seem like the stronger candidate. >> gingrich will be willing to throw punches when the time comes. it's in his nation to do so. he's in south carolina and he's complaining about romney talking about gingrich's record on immigration. >> at least one or two of my friends have grossly misstated my position by running around the country saying i'm for amnesty for 11 million people. so let me start with that so we can have the right sound bite for our friends here. okay?
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it is an absolute falsehood to suggest that i favor amnesty for 11 million people, period, and anybody who says it from this point on has been served notice that they're saying something which is not true which in itself should disqualify them as a candidate to be president of the united states. >> there are few funnier than watching a liar like newt gingrich threaten any other candidate if they lie in any way about him. he's serious. i think he'll go after romney hard if he has to. >> he's serious and has the experience on the national stage, and he understands that before you can assume that you have the nomination set your sights on the white house, you have to show you have the stomach for the fight to get in the face of the other candidates and win the primaries. he's doing that right now. yet he understands what this is about. he's comfortable doing it, and he enjoys it. when have you seen mitt romney enjoy any of this whole election thing.
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>> take the gloves ov, newt. we can't wait. newt gingrich puts his embrace of nancy pelosi behind him. yes, did he that once. he gets help trying to do that from his fox news pal, bill o'reilly. that's next in "the rewrite." dr. conrad murray got the maximum prison sentence today for the death of michael jackson. deepak chopra, a long-time friend of michael jackson, will join me later. ♪ [ man #1 ] i was fascinated by balsa wood airplanes
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bill o'reilly tried to help newt gingrich. newt used to be a liberal on climate change, and bill o'reilly took on the job last night of helping him deal with that anyway forthright fox news kind of way so newt could put it behind him and become the first person to go from the fox news payroll to the republican presidential nomination. >> first of all, nancy pelosi,
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you, sitting there talking about global warming on tv. what was that all about? >> what was that all about is the standard fox news question to republican presidential candidates who have a problem they need to deal with publicly. it's not a pointed question. it's just a way of saying there's this issue i have to contend to confront you with, so i'm going to throw it out there and let you deal with it any way you want to. when you watch newt's answer, notice hs developed the fakest candidate smile of the entire republican field now that he's the front-runner. his handlers have explained to him that the newt scowl can only get him so far. >> what was that all about? >> well, i've said it's one of the dumbest things did in the recent years. it was an effort on my part to have conservatives are concerned about the environment and have better solutions. i actively opposed cap and
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trade, i testified against it the same day al gore was for. it the commercial was a mistake. >> do you believe in man made global warming that because the planet is polluted and spew out stuff in the air that has influenced the way climate comes about, do you believe that? >> i don't think we know. i think the evidence is not complete, and i think that we're a long way from being able to translate a computer program into actual science. >> you're an agnostic on the subject. would that be accurate? >> it's fair to say i'm open-minlded and certainly not prepared to spend trillions of dollars on a theory. >> nancy pelosi is obviously the poster woman for the far left, and what was the benefit -- put the issue aside of global warming, the environment. i think that's an important issue and i know you're interested and i have been for many years. put that aside. did you think being associated with her in any form would be damaging to you?
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>> i thought at the time i was a private citizen and wasn't contemplating public life called contract with the earth with teri maple on a conservative approach to the environment and how to use incentives and having a better environment without the epa. i wanted to be in the middle of the argument about the environment to make a case that conservatives have better ideas about the environment than liberals do. >> that was a pretty eerie occurrence, though, looking back on it. very frightening. let's go to immigration. >> yeah, frightening. so newt says it's one of the dumbest things he's done in recent years. he has to limit himself to recent years, of course, because he's exhausted peace in vanity fair in 1995 after he was speaker. she quotes, gingrich's neighbor
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and campaign treasurer tip carter who tells this story about gingrich? i have newt's daughters, jackie, sue, and kathy with me. i was cutting across the yard to go up the driveway. there was a car there. as i got to the car i saw newt in the passenger seat, and one of the guys' wives with his head in her lap going up and down. newt kind of turned and gave me his little-boy smile. fortunately jackie, sue and kathy were a long younger and shorter then. there are some voters who would score what gingrich was doing in the driveway as an awful lot dumber than agreeing with nancy pelosi about climate change, and, of course, limiting himself to recent years allows gingrich to ignore the $300,000 fine that the house ethics committee hit
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him with in 1997. as is newt's habit, when confronted with something politically embarrassing, he lies about it. when he was yontsed with the million and a half dollars that freddie mac paid him for his help dealing with congress, he, of course, had to lie and claim that he was being paid as a historian. not a lobbyist. with o'reilly last night he had no trouble getting away with this lie. >> it was an effort to my part to say that conservatives are concerned about the environment. we have better solutions. >> i leave it to you to guess whether o'reilly and his team were too lazy to do what the ad told them to do, or whether they were just trying to help gingrich in his cover-up of his environmental record. gingrich's ad with nancy pelosi asks viewers to do nothing more than go to
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what he o'reilly's viewers never know if you go to this website, this is what you see. >> look at what's happening. look at fires in russia and the floods in pakistan, the drought in texas. the dots i want to connect are between recognizing that and speaking up in conversations, winning the conversations, changing the general way of thinking about this, and then getting involved actively. let those in the political system know if they think all they have to do is take money from these special interests and not have to worry that the people themselves are going to notice about it, neve another thing coming. >> newt gingrich did a tv commercial to get you to listen to al gore about climate change on a website that soliciting money to continue delivering the
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al gore message on climate change. in his defense newt slipped into a romney-like explanation. >> i thought at the time, look, i was a private citizen. i wasn't contemplating public life. >> that's newt's i'm running for office for pete's sake moment. it's the other side of that same republican coin, the i'm not running for office for pete's sake, so i can do whatever i want. if it leaves you wondering what other shenanigans newt gingrich was up to when he wasn't running for office, you don't have to limit your imagination in any way. this is the guy who when he was running for office thought it was cool to have oral sex with another man's wife in a suburban driveway while his kids were walking past the car. doing a tv ad about climate change with nancy pelosi is
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nowhere close to the dumbest things newt gingrich has done in recent years or any years. at the obama re-election headquarters tonight, everyone there is surely hoping that the republican party is dumb enough to nominate newt gingrich as their candidate for president. >> it's one of the dumbest things i've done in recent years. ♪ i think i'm falling ♪ i think i'm falling ♪ i think i'm falling [ male announcer ] this is your moment. ♪ for you [ male announcer ] this is zales, the diamond store. shop our largest diamond store online anytime at
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dr. murray created a set of circumstances and became involved in a cycle of horrible medicine. the practice of propofol for
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medicine madness. dr. murray engaged in a recurring, continuous pattern of deceit, of lies, and regrettably that pattern was to assist dr. murray. >> michael jackson's doctor, conrad murray was given the maximum sentence of four years today after his conviction for involuntary manslaughter. his booking photo -- this booking photo of murray was taken minutes after he was sentenced. because california's prisons are so overcrowded, the los angeles sheriff's department has announced dr. murray will serve less than half that sentence, just under two years, doing all of it in a county jail cell isolated from other inmates. the judge in this case lashed out at murray calling his action
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agrace to the medical professional and said the use of propofol to treat insomnia violated his sworn obligation as a physician. the jackson family spoke as they left the courthouse. >> i think the judge was fair. i really think he was fair. thank you for being so loyal and supporting us. i think we got a fair trial. >> the time is [ bleep ]. it should have been -- >> joining me now is deepak chopra, radio host and best-selling author of more than 60 books including "war of the world views, science verse spirituality." thank you very much for joining me toint. >> thank you. >> do we find closure now in the
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michael jackson -- in the story of michael jackson's life and death? >> to some extent we find the closure, but from the point of view of a physician who has been watching the enabling doctors in hollywood, the co-dependent relationship between celebrities and their doctors who become identified with the celebrity, and the medical profession itself. you know, the medical associations that refuse to support the criminalization of medical malpractice, and all the agencies, you know, there are agencies that are supposed to report this and shen sure this it. every prescription by the way is on record. when you take tons of propofol, that's on record. how is that allowed to happen? it brings closure to some
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extent, but from the point of view if you look at it seriously, it's a bit of a slap on the wrist and it's not addressing the bigger issues at that face our profession and also face the celebrity because celebrities get to demand and get to get what they want. it's a co-dependence, dysfunctional relationship perpetuated and initiated by our profession. >> yeah, it certainly did reveal all these holes in the system that would allow this happen. now i understand why the doctor went to trial. i just thought he was so obviously guilty there should have been some sort of plea bargain reached here, but there's no incentive for the plea bargain when the potential maximum sentence is so light. that's obviously why he went into trial here. >> right. it's a slap on the wrist, and nothing more. i don't think it really brings closure to the big issues. we've seen this with other people, with anna nicole smith
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and seen this with a bunch. it's happening right now as we speak. >> yes. the judge certainly found his outrage over every single thing you're talking about including the lying that the doctor did in order to get the supplies of this drug all the way through administration of it and everything else. let's listen to the tape of michael jackson that the judge talked about today. >> the judge said that conrad murray kept that tape in order to protect himself from possible litigation thinking if there's a malpractice suit here, i will use this to show this was the patient out of control and not the doctor.
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>> how could you listen to that tape and not feel your heartbroken, to put somebody like that in that condition at risk to put that patient at risk by giving them an anesthetic used in an operating room with intubation and all kinds of things available to you. to give that kind of patient a drug that basically there's no recourse if you give it outside of an operating room. so that, in fact, is even more damaging than anything else. >> what has it been like for you as a friend of michael jackson to listen to the evidence unfold in this case? >> it's been a bit of a torture. it's been a lot of agony. it's been a lot of sorrow. it's reminded me of the good days that michael had, the ds when he was totally you know sober and never even sipped a glass of wine or took a sip of anything that intoxicated him