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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  September 27, 2013 8:00pm-9:00pm EDT

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story with the importance it deserves. we need to understand, we need to hope that this weekend's march to the cliff is not the norm, much less the ideal of thousand american government, even in divided political time, must be run. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. tonight, not one, but two foreign policy have me wondering if we are now seeing in action, president-elected in 2008. the one who ran on a flat form, diplomacy over war. rachel mjoins me. but tomorrow, the continuing resolution upon the government with just three short days until the government shutdown. >> it's starting to look like we may be having a harder time
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avoiding a shutdown. >> three days, nine hours away. >> a resolution, the house is going to be in over the weekend. question is, can we git done? >> i'm in a hostage situation. >> it's totally up to john boehner. he has to decide does he continue to appease the tea party wing or does he put a clean cr on the floor. >> the continuing resolution funding the government is now out of the senate and in order to avoid a government shutdown, it's up to house republicans to now pass a spending bill. >> so, over the next three day, house republicans will have to decide whether to join the senate and keep the government open or shut it down. >> and as democrats led by the president are pressing speaker boehner for a clean bill that funds obama care, it looks like house republicans are taking directions from someone else. >> i view what's critical is
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that the house pass a measure that protects the american people from the harms that obama care is causing. >> according to robert costa, senator ted cruz is continuing to press conservative members to revolt against boehner and strip the cr bill of obama care funding. there by inviting a shut down on monday. in just three day, we will know if ted cruz is able to complete his hostile takeover of the house of representatives, now, let me tell you why you should be rooting for cruz to win. you see, there are two different deadlines approaching. one is manageable. one is catastrophic. on september 30th, the government will partially shut down if congress does not pass a spending bill and that would be bad. it would cost money and thousands of government workers could be furloughed, but it has
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happened before and we can survive it. on october 17th on the other hand, the government of the united states of america will default if congress does not raise the debt ceiling. that would be unprecedented. the consequences impossible to predict. >> we don't fully understand what might happen, the dangers involved, because no congress has ever actually threatened default. but we know it would have a profound destabilizing effect on the entire economy. >> if the government does not shut down this monday, the odds of a default two weeks later shoot up and that's why you should be rooting for a government shutdown. imagine a government shutdown as an inoculation against the possibility of a default. yes, it will be a little painful, it will be inconvenient, but nothing compared to the consequences of getting the full blown disease. >> there, protected and it
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doesn't hurt a bit. >> if the u.s. government default, we will get the disease, but if the republican tea party caucus wins the day and manages to bring about a shutdown, the american people will be inoculated. the public will get to see the consequences of gop obstruction and possibly, just maybe, the house gop will get to see just how unpopular they really are. joining me with the latest, robert costa, washington, d.c. editor for the conservative national review and the best source man in all of washington, okay, meeting tomorrow, the ball is back in the house's court. it got passed out of the senate for a clean resolution. what is the house going to do? >> i just stepped over here from the capitol and house leadership is really flum ets right now. they don't know how to proceed. they want to maybe have a short-term cr to extend the debate.
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they just don't have the votes right now to get a clean cr through. >> when you say they don't have the votes, they don't have the votes in the republican caucus. if john boehner would go to the floor this minute and bring up a clean cr, it would pass because every democrat would vote for ut. but if he does that, he risks open full scale revolt, kregt correct? >> he does and he has broke b the hastert rule before. because as you mentioned the pressure is so strong from the right, senator cruz is actually huddling with house republicans trying to pressure them to have a standoff. if he breaks the rule with that cruz pressure at the same time, his power is very tenuous. >> you had an incredible piece of reporting today about a phone call. basically, john boehner's plan was get everybody to swallow hard and just pass a clean continuing resolution and double down and gear up for the fight on the debt ceiling, then a bunch of tea party members had a phone call with ted cruz. what happened in that phone
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call? >> he said to the house conservatives, don't follow speaker boehner. have a real standoff right now on the cr. >> people need to understand how anomalous it is for a freshman junior senator to be ripping votes in the house against the leadership of his own party. >> highly unusual. >> this never happens. boehner must be losing his mind. >> boehner, i hear, is fuming behind the scenes. not just because it's cruz pressu pressuring him from the right, but because it's cruz pressuring him from the senate. there's a real frustration that this freshman senator is trying to dictate the house. >> this is like me walking down the hall and telling rachel's segment producers how to write their scripts. you do not do that. i imagine there's going to be when they have the chance to extract their revenge on ted cruz, but in the short-term, do you think the odds of a shutdown
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have now increased since the house caucus is balking at john boehner's attempts to get a cr passed? >> i think very much a cr is on the table unless he tells the conference, i think this whole thing could shut down. >> i want to bring in melissa har ris perry. . what i think is fascinating here is looking at this in the context of democratic norms and we're seeing norms fall all over the place. there was this great piece ryan l liza put up -- it's basically 80 members of the house who wrote a letter to boehner being like you've got to defund obama care and basically, what you find about these votes is that they're in district much whiter than the country. that are more likely to be located in the south and that make, that cover about 15% of the naon's population and these are the people who appear
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to be essentially attempting to dictate the agenda for the entire government. >> we heard the president today sort of come out and make this reasoned argument. let's not hold our debt ceiling you know, hostage here and let's not shut down the government because while that's bad and we're not disagreeing about month, we're disagreeing about something that's been law. but more important is for us to recognize what happens as a result of the very basic political reality that congressmen are single minded seekers of re-election and right now, the kinds of districts in this so many of these congresspersons are running, these tea party congresspersons are the kinds of districts that reward this kind of behavior, no matter what the kind of general good is. >> and something more than that. robert, what they're rewarding also is we're not just seeing norms be upset in terms of what you ask for in exchange for debt ceiling vote. we're seeing norms of just how a
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caucus works. how leadership interacts with rank and file. how the two houses interact with each other. this is all pretty unprecedented. >> the party's still i live. i'm covering the end of power and boehner's power is deminnished. earmarks are gone. ability to shape the discussion is deminnished and you have the conservative movement the center of gravity. >> this is part of why, a moment when liberals who might want to cheer the end of the republican party should yus pause and have a cup of water and relax. because in fact, we want strong parties in this country. initially, the founders did sort of indicate an interest against parties, but one of the reasons parties grew up is in fact a good, strong party system protects against the sort of brinks man ship we are currently looking at. why do they emerge in the american concept? one of the reasons is in order
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to serve the interest of the party member, but a general interest. it's why you have the sets of rules that you do so that what you want actually is a strong boehner because a strong boehner keeps these kinds of interests in line. >> and what we see right now is a very weak boehner. we see him, no control over, i mean, essentially zero control over his own caucus and i wonder also what this portends down the line for how this congress behaves even after this crisis. i mean, we have gone from crisis to crisis where at a certain point, robert, boehner, i mean, does boehner actually fall at some point? is there an actual coup where they call a new election or he has to set down? >> i don't think boehner is going to have any kind of coup awe tempt, but his power is very much suffering. when it comes to thinking about immigration reform moving ahead,
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does boehner have any kind of sway to move something forward? it's all a game of survival and it has consequences. >> it has substantive consequences. unlike nancy pelosi, who was an incredibly strong speaker and dlired vote after vote after vote, he can't. everyone knows that. >> so, you end up in this position where you're sort of cheering for the folks who useded to be the renegades, the john mccain's who say yes, we disagree, but there are ways in which we move forward. so you've got the sort of elder statesman and the senate, john mccain, against cruz over there in the senate. part of what's interesting about what's happening in the senate is that the senate is meant to protect against this. these sorts of quirky personalities are supposed to emerge in the house of representatives. >> and what we see now is in the senate, they do not control the party caucus. in the house, they do.
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and that is precisely the dispute that we're seeing play out in real time as you had essentially half of the republicans in the senate vote for this clean cr today. are the tea party caucus people, those 80 members what kraut himmer called the suicide caucus. >> when i speak to these conservatives in the house and senate, they believe if the shutdown happens, that is a true belief. just not some cynical spin. >> that's what i think and you were nodding your head during that package. i'm rooting for a shutdown because i think you need to let out the tension there. >> i am rooting for adults governing with those brord es interests at heart, but if not, i agree. there is kind of inoculating effect for the shutdown, but
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part of what we have to say and i git get it. i almost want the president to say bring it, shut that down, let's see that. but the reason you can't because the people most likely to be hurt are the most vulnerable. >> and what i think is going to be interesting robert, is that we will see how it plays. one of the things, there's these kind of competing conceptions that we could see play out were a shutdown to happen. as always, a pleasure. you can catch her fantastic show weekends at 10:00 a.m. eastern here on msnbc. coming up. >> there's a new poll out this morning that says you know, take a guess. how many people in this country, what percentage, have insurance now for the very first time because of the affordable care act? how many? what percent? >> the answer to that question is not surprising, but the
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one weird thing about this job is that i spend an hour every night talk iing to you fi people, but i do it while staring into the cold, unblinking eye of the camera. it's unnatural. like all human beings, i crave contact, which is why next monday, i will be talking over the facebook account for 30 whole minutes. you can ask your questions and we can interact like normal people. it will be fun and we'll be right back with rachel maddow. any last requests mr. baldwin?
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we have some breaking news at the moment. the united nations security counsel has asked the resolution on the inspection of the regime for syria's chemical weapons. regime of bashar al assad submitted this plan after diplomacy from russia and the u.s. and now, an enforceable u.n. security counsel resolution has been passed. this is pretty stunning news and not the biggest piece of diplomatic news today. the other big news today is that for the first time in 34 years, the president of the united states, the president of iran have spoken to each other. >> just now, i spoke on the phone with president rouhani. the two have discussed on
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ongoing efforts. we were mindful of the challenges ahead. the very fact that this was the first indication between an american and iranian president since 1979 underscores the deepness between our countries, but also indicated the prospect of moving beyond that difficult test. so, the test will be meaningful, transparent and verifiable actions, which can also bring relief from the comprehensive international sanctions this place. >> watching this news break over twitter, and sitting and observing it, i felt like i was watching the man that i voted for in 2008. very proudly, who ran an entire foreign policy campaign about choosing diplomacy over war. a man who has president, has been drawn to a close, but also expanding our military activities in a variety of countries through counterterrorism and drones and special forces. today, i saw that candidate of
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2008. >> our iran policy is a complete failure right now and that's the policy that john mccain is running on. he has nothing to offer except the naive and irresponsible belief that tough talk from washington will somehow cause iran to give up its nuclear program in support for terrorism. i believe we need to use all elements of american power to pressure iran, including tough, principled and direct diplomacy. what's that john f. kennedy did. what ronald reagan did when dealing with the soviets. >> today, talked to iran. according to a senior administration official, president rouhani wanted to speak to the president on the phone. this after he reportedly turned down a meeting with the president earlier this week. today at approximately 2:30 p.m., the two leaders engaged in a phone call lasting approximately 15 minutes. a translator facilitated the
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call. and then the tweets, they expressed their mutual will to solve the issue and this one, hassan rouhani, have a nice day, barack obama, thank you, a persian language expression meaning god be with you. i'm sure fox will have a lot of fun with that. joining me now is the great rachel maddow. also author of "drift." >> start with the hash tag. it will happen. it's not yes, we can. it's yes, we will. did happened. amazing. >> it was amazing this happened and it did feel like this was a huge issue in the 2008 campaign. he, what barack obama did in that campaign was turn into the tough position, which was yeah, i'm going to talk to iran and here we are five years later and he's talking to iran.
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>> so glad you played that piece from may 2008 because he's saying you know what? tough, direct diplomacy going to get us what we want from iran rather than us sitting here haranging them and not speaking to them. we've been trying not speaking to them since 1979, how's that working out? but this comes on the heels on an upsurge of sanctions pressure, so they did stop talking as tough at the bush administration did. they upped the toughness of their actual actions toward iran and said they will talk. obviously, it has a lot to do with the newfound wlingness of the iranian side to seek out an american to talk to. none of that would have happened had the obama administration -- >> the domestic political situation is so different now. we've seen people's enthusiasm for this in 2008, but in the wake of what happened with syria in which the country almost together enjoyed a cross party
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line, we are tired of war. we are tired of war. but i think we're not going to see the kind of political domestic backlash to this conversation that happened today that you would have seen five or six or eight years ago. >> one great milestone, one great sort of benchmark person to watch here is always john mccain because john mccain has never met a war he didn't like and john mccain's response to the prospect of the u.n. security counsel resolution, which we apparently now have, was that it made him sad. he did not want this to be resolved diplomatically. that made him feel sad and what's amazing about that is that it's just him. that's a bizarre view to have. the rest of the country doesn't have a window. >> we're now showing the breaking news banner. i have to say, we were, you and i were both reporting on this in the run up to it and i was watching it when john kerry came
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to the nation when he made this argument for strikes. this is a train wreck. i don't think it's going to work, i think it's going to make things worse. with russia voting for it and chemical weapons is incredible democratic victory. >> on the day that the american president speaks to the iranian president for the first time since 1979. these are both the kinds of things that are not just unimaginable a week ago, but for the last several decades. i guess this is the way these things happen. you quietly work on these things for a long time, then when opportunity the available, things happen at once. this is historic. >> i think there's a case to be
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made that so much the foreign policy of the president in the first five years was drawing these two wars to a close that that took up the capacity for any kind of proactive diplomatic internationalism that was the original promise of the obama campaign in 2008. >> it's hard to know what progress is being made on the diplomatic front. >> that's so true. it's happening so quietly and away from the camera. >> and how much does it matter that hillary clinton did those million miles? that she logged all of that face time with all of those world leaders that wouldn't have necessarily happened under any other secretary of state without the kind of access and prestige she had. how much did that lay the groundwork for what john kerry has been able to actualize? how much is because of change happening in other countries? >> that is the other part of it. just to make that point, iran, iran had their own kind of barack obama election. in which they threw out the kind
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of neo con cowboys who liked to enflame the world with rhetoric, but to say that the domestic political considerations was that they wanted a new course and they elected someone who gave them that and apparently, supreme leadership is also behind this. you also have domestic political considerations inside iran, which have changed. >> and maybe we did influence those with sanctions. sanctions wrach etted in a way that made them a different experience than most regular on the street iranian and maybe that did affect what happened in that election which has allowed him now to have this call with obama. maybe we do this influence. maybe it's mysterious, but what you need to know is that we need people who are good at diplomacy all the time and working at it even when it seems hopeless because sometimes, it takes 34 years for that phone call to hp, but when it happens, you better
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have done the work along the way because those opportunities come along rarery. >> to bring it back to syria, that was what was most remarkable. >> even if it came from a weird place. i don't care if john kerry noent say that in that way at that moment, they were on it. and maybe that's because of a preexisting relationship with lavrov, who knows. preparation is 99% of taking advantage of the right opportunity. >> i am very much looking forward to hearing what you have to say about this on your show. thank you so much. >> thanks. >> be sure to stick around. coming up at 9:00 p.m. and we will be right back with clip three. but she loved it so much... i told her it was homemade. everyone tells a little white lie now and then. but now she wants my recipe [ clears his throat ] [ softly ] she's right behind me isn't she? [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.
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so much misinformation about obama care is that their hosts don't understand the most basic parts of the law. possibly. we will show you evidence that is exactly what's going on. but first, the three awesomest things. for over 160 year, "the new york times" has offered its readers all the news fit to print. sometimes, that includes corrections. the latest entrant made to the o obituary of the former president of nintendo, the brothers plumber, not janitors. we can't hate on the lady.
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the language used makes these revisions endearing. for example, this correction from 2006. an article about the abundance of satire referred incorrectly to an episode of "south park." in it, cartman tricks another child into eating his own parents in a bowl of chilchili. an article -- misidentified the character from my little pony. it is twilight sparkle, not flutter shy. perhaps the winner of this from august. an article about morgan spurlock misstated the subject of his movie. it's about male grooming, not charles manson. the second thing takes us to sweden.
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this utopia turned into a twetty skate this week. police were ready to move when station's escalator stepped in. it's not clear whether it was suspensionly sped up or gave out from a zillion people on it. >> boy, that escalated quickly. i mean, that really got out of hand fast. >> sure did and the third awesomist thing today as anyone who's ever watched tv at 3:00 a.m., characters at infomercials often fail at life, that's why they need products to help them deal with the every day burdens of being alive. i here are the smiths.
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very pleased. who told you to take a break? [ male announcer ] want to win your own football fantasy? just tell us. then use your visa card for a chance to win it. i think a large part of what the law is designed to do, whether you agree or not, is to cover those on your insurance. i want to know how many people in your district we're talking
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about. >> those uninsured will remain uninsured. >> there's a lot of confusion about obama care and the affects it will have on people and that extends to the halls of congress. last night, congresswoman from north carolina seemed unclear about what would happen to those who can't afford health insurance and those already covered. the basic tenants of the law are that millions without insurance will now qualify for medicaid or be able to purchase individual plans in newly created markets called exchanges often with subsidies from the government. for the overwhelming majority, things will stay the same. four days from the rollout of those exchange -- millions have no idea what it means.
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fear mongering around the law, but more of it is just not understanding what it does. >> the exchanges -- supposed to be open on the first day october. haven't quite figured out how to do it. they're going to say essentially you can fill out a paper, however it won't be available online until november. >> did you see fox and friends read "the washington post" yesterday and discovered that government's small business health exchanges, similar to the individual businesses to shop for plans for their employees, that will not open for online enrollment until november, which is not the best thing in the world, but the law's insurance plans don't fully go into effect until january 1st. january 1st is a very important
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day. that's when the law goes into effect. when people start getting insurance. sign upstarts in a few days, but the law doesn't go into effect until the first of the year, for instance, let's say i designed up for direct deposit at the bank. but that wasn't the only the thing. original argument about whether we should pass the afterable care act. karl rove said 85% of the -- entire system for 15%. okay, i don't think steve is being disengeneralous. obama care does not blow up the entire system.
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in fact, the main thing the law does is deliver millions of new customers to the private insurance industry which is kind of the opposite of blowing up the system. it's adding to the system. if you're home watching this right now, the odds are extremely high that essentially nothing aside from some added benefits and protections is going to change about your health insurance on october 1th when the health changes go live online or january 1st when they start ensuring people. nothing at all. but there's something else steve and his friends seem completely obtuse about. >> there's a new poll out this thorng that morning this says, take a guess. how many people in this country, what percentage have insurance now for this very first time because of affordable care act? how many? what p percent? >> i mean, i'd go 20. 20%. >> wait. >> wait. 20%. that is a terrible guess. considering that he just said
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15% of the country didn't have health insurance. >> what percent? >> i mean, i'd go 20. let's go 20%. >> 1%. >> oh, great. >> 1% of the country has insurance because of the affordable care act. >> that's it? >> we're helping out 15%, so far, just 1. >> yes. yes. 1%. 1%. because the core of the law designed to insure the uninsured has not fully gone into effect yet. remember? i just said this. a few seconds ago. january 1st is a very important date because again, that's when the law goes into effect. but steve believes the new health care law has failed to ensure the millions of americans who currently lack health insurance before the law goes into effect. that's like complaining you haven't gotten your hamburger yet from a restaurant that doesn't open until next freaking week. look, laws are big and often
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complicated and it is genuinely difficult to figure out the details. they're confusing and what might happen in the future is difficult to predict. but that's what those of us in the news media are paid to do. i have low testosterone. there, i said it.
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might have noticed something unusual if you turned on any college football games last saturday. the letters written on the
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players from 20 different schools. it's not a bible reference or one who died, it's a subtle gesture that signalled all is not well with the world of college football. players were pledging allegiance with all players united, spotlight the ncaa's treat of the players who generate massive amounts of revenue in exchange for little in the way of payment and protections. college football is a huge business. the university of texas alone, one school, reported more than $100 million in football revenue over just one season. as you can see from the map, the highest paid public employee in the majority of states is a football coach. college football's future prospects are not so clear. in fact, if i was a hedge manager and i could short college football, i would and here's why. the sport has two colossusal threats. the first is the awareness that
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players are putting themselves at serious risk for traumatic pr brain injuries. a lawsuit -- and they have ammo. an e-mail show they did not enforce a concussion policy for schools and that's it's top enforcement official opposed penalizing coaches who put players back into games after they were diagnosed with head injuries. the other threat is the increasing recognition the entire model of exploiting the free labor of these young people without giving them a share of the billions they help generate. just this week, ea sports and the collegiate licensing company said they were settling a lawsuit brought by former players whose likeness was used in video games without compensation. on top of that, a class action
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lawsuit against the ncaa by current and former players is currently making its way through the court. victory could be worth billions of dollars and it would likely fundamentally change the very nature of college sports. joining me now is founder and president of the national college player's association, a former linebacker for ucla. how did this get started? >> sure and thanks for having me. the campaign is a campaign designed by current college a athletes that sit on our affairs counsel. they really give direction on how to better protect college athletes an they looked at one of the lawsuits over publicity rights and there were a few players that play to join the lawsuit, but they started to take criticism for standing up for the players and the players on the players counsel wanted to
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do something to show some solidarity behind them. they said let's do something physical. they had the idea of wearing something during the game to bring attention to these causes, but also to develop the message. the ncaa has done very little on concussio concussions. >> one of the difference there is the nfl has a union and it has been subject to quite a bit of conversation. i want you to hang around. we're going to bring in a few other folks after we take this break. o? man: 'oh i can't go tonight' o? woman: 'i can't.' hero : that's what expedia asked me. host: book the flight but you have to go right now. hero: (laughs) and i just go? this is for real right? this is for real? i always said one day i'd go to china, just never thought it'd be today. anncr: we're giving away a trip every day. download the expedia app and your next trip could be on us. expedia, find yours.
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we're back and i'm here with ramobi, joining us now is mike, kenneth, a special counsel -- are you, is what you're doing
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former lly youn on? what are you trying to do with this association of college players? what do you want? >> for the last 12 years, we've operated as a non-profit and had no plans to create a union or go on strike. but we've been able to make some progress. laws that have been passed. we've helped shape public opinion through public pressure campaigns and even been around some important lawsuits that helped give out these basic protections. that's the way we're going to continue, but we need to do it in a way where players can voice a concern because at the end of the day, the ncaa always has special messages during the final four. spend millions of dollars to spin what's really going on. >> you've been covering this a lot. particularly as traumatic brain injury evidence has mounted. the nfl has instituted a ton of new rules. whether they work or not is the
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question. simply dollars and cents, but they've done a lot. are we seeing the same in the ncaa and is that just a matter of the fact the players have less power in this weird cartel unpaid system? >> yes, that's exactly it. we're seeing less, but the ncaa expects the nfl to take the lead and they tony want to see themselves subjecting themselves to anything dangerous, but at the same time, they have no power. the whole reason the n krrcaa es and the whole reason they made this designation is an end around liability for injury because if you're a student athlete, they don't have to pay you. that's in the records. that's the history of the ncaa and why we even use the phrase student athlete. >> people increasingly look at big time college athletics and say lot of people are making money and the people off whom that money is being made, the athlete, there's estimates that a college basketball player is
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worth about $10 million to his school and revenue and television as well. a lot of people look at that and say the players should be paid. what do you think about that? >> there's really nothing wrong with it. we should focus on the resources to better use than paying head coaches 5, $10 million a year. rather than putting money into new buildings and the like, but more importantly, i think the work he's done is important, the health care of the athletes. the idea of a salary or paying athletes, there's nothing wrong can it. amate amateurism is a myth. it's a rule that's been put in place by the ncaa. difficult to execute, but flowing more funds in their direction to the welfare and the performers on the field. >> it seems to me that the thing stopping that from happening is precisely this power and balance. everyone can say i observe from
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on high this is a corrupt or unfair system. but what actually makes change happen is power and right now, student athletes as they are so-called, don't, do not have a lot of power, partly because they're young. partly because they move through and cycle through. they're not in the same place. partly because they're distributed over a lot of schools. that is the fundamental issue here, is they don't have the power to go head to head with the ncaa. >> which is why the organization is so important because like you say, at 18, it seems like a fundamental injustice and at 22, i'm in the nfl. arian foster, they paid you at tennessee, but no one really cares. trying to mobilize the people now. >> well, i would imagine these are difficult conditions under which to try to organize or build power for all the reasons i swrjust said. you've got a culture that is used to taking orders and not being rebellious and speaking up and standing out. that's just the mentality of
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locker room culture. particularly in football, in which coaches have to manage huge amounts of people. do you get a lot of resistance when you go and talk to players? >> i think this is why this is such a big deal. these player, under that environment, still chose to take a stand and speak their mind and call attention to the fact they can be stuck with medical bills. graduation rates are 50%. players have power, whether or not they channel it is the question and i think that this campaign was designed by players and there's no question of why you see players participating because they're doing it in a way that they're comfortable. in terms of television, they put those apus out there on television. there's a reason why the shoe companies put their logos on their players. millions of viewers are watching that and they're able to make a statement. >> there's also a reason they like this. this lawsuit is remarkable.
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they've been manufacturing this college football game in which they don't use the name of current college players, but they use the identity. if you're a star quarterback, six feet and wear number 12 and are playing for oklahoma state, the oklahoma state team has a quarterback who's six feet and wears number 12 and aren't seeing a penny. >> down to your skin tone and if you have an afro and it's clear they're the person. it's part and pear sell of them saying we're giving you a scholarship and the players are saying you know what would make us happy? a little bit of scratch. >> kenneth, how does that change? >> a lot of the conferences will acce separate out. the ncaa basketball tournament, situations like that, will continue, but there's got to be a change in system. >> i think we are headed towards a big economic change. i think some of these lawsuits


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