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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  November 12, 2013 2:00am-3:00am EST

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members in this case and mothers in other states just to be bullies. >> telly, thank you very much for joining us with that report from texas. >> my pleasure. >> chris hayes is up next. time to attack. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. i think it's time for the president to stick it to his enemies. forget this losing inch by inch and playing defense and win this thing on offense. let me start by saying out loud who his enemies are. they are not those who push the racist argument that he's a kenyan, an east african who conned his way into the american presidency. there are arguments that say he should have been deported as a
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criminal. no, his true enemies are the backers and kissing cousins of the birthers. the people like john boehner who refuse to stand up to them, who make common cause with the haters even as he positions himself as not quite one of them. who keep their hands clean even as they benefit from the garbage their birther buddies are throwing out at the zoo. obama's true enemies are those who back the three dozen states now pushing voter suppression laws to make sure the country doesn't go and elect another back president or a progressive white president. this generation is equivalent of poll taxes and the literacy tests. anything to keep minorities from voting rights. and to this crowd the obama haters add to those who gnaw on the president's health care bill but offer nothing in its place except for the notions of destroying the economy stature. these are the enemies.
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those who stand in benefit from all the anger, hatred, and indecency of the nasty right while claiming to be above them when they are below them. again humming along with the true haters on the right singing their un-american songs. ed rendell was governor of pennsylvania. david corn is for mother jones magazine. both are msnbc political analysts. i think this president has made a big mistake first of all in naming his health care bill obama care which has been used as a term of personal derision especially by those who hate him personally and use anything about his person to describe anything attached to him. but i think what's going on here is the right wing of this country has been a big part of the republican coalition and not once does boehner or mcconnell ever stood up and said those people are unacceptable in the way that bill buckley said anti-semitism is not allowed in the conservative coalition. nobody says it. nobody stands up for the middle
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right and says we about part of your crowd. you ain't part of ours. your thoughts. >> i agree, chris. i think it's time for the president to go on the offensive. i wouldn't bother with the birther issue, because every time some republican running for office says that the president wasn't born in the united states, all that does is get another independent voter or moderate republican to shake their head and say i can't be with these wackos. >> why do the people who run for office on the republican side never separate themselves from them? because they get their votes. that's why. >> absolutely. they get their votes. but every time a birther's out there, it helps our cause for 2014. what i do think is the president should go on the offensive on voting rights. he should go on the offensive. make them vote on an immigration bill. because that's a bill that really resonates. if they vote that down, they're losing hispanic voters and i
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don't care who the candidates are. they can vote on a jobs bill. >> well, i hope you agree with my point. the reason they don't want to do that, it forces them to choose between the haters out there who don't want immigrants and what the president is pushing. >> absolutely. but make them vote on that. you know, they're attacking the affordable care act, and you're right. the affordable care act polls better when it's called the affordable care act than it does when it's called obama care. but make them vote on a jobs bill. and another distinction. 41 times the republicans in the house have wasted the nation's time voting to repeal the affordable care act. but they haven't passed a jobs bill. keep sending them jobs bill and make them vote on that. >> i agree with that. yeah. anyway, what i want to do is just change the conversation. because we're not going to get a report card on obama care on health care through november 30th or march. this is going to be an endless,
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endless woodpecker thing. the governor mentioned voting rights. i think president obama has a gopher pitch coming at him here. take voter suppression. make the party choose between honor or reince priebus. look at this map. under reince priebus, republicans in 35 states have advanced legislation to suppress the voting rights. every single one of those were introduced by republicans. there's so much ripe fruit out there to stick it to them on. their attitudes about the birthers. i think they got away with it. they get all those voters in the south especially. who the hell is boehner to say -- let's look at what he said about the birthers. because i think he's vulnerable as hell on this. >> as the speaker of the house, as a leader, do you not think it's your responsibility to stand up to that kind of ignorance?
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>> david, it's not my job to tell the american people what to think. our job in washington is to listen to the american people. >> that's a leader. he's speaker of the house. it's not our job to tell the american people what to think. we've got to go to war. they're willing to tell us when to go to war. they tell us to vote for them. then they say i can't tell you whether the guy is a kenyan or not? >> there's a couple things the president needs to do. i think you're right. i don't think much will be heard until at least the website's working. the first three things to do for the next month -- i'm sorry. you want to hear this, chris. >> i don't know if it's worthy of conversation until it's done. >> nevertheless. ultimately going into 2014, he will be judged on how effective obama care is. they have to get moving on that fast. it's too easy to say but look at the website. so that has to happen. the other thing is we've been talking about the birther thing
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for four years now. in addition to that he has to come out and say america thinks that washington is dysfunctional. ted cruz can go on jay leno last friday night and get laughs and applause for talking about how washington is dysfunctional. >> but it's calling the guy is kenyan. >> no, no. let me finish. i think the president has to get out there and say washington's not dysfunctional. it's the republican party. there is a difference. you have to pay attention to what's going on here. but the republicans benefit. if anybody thinks washington is just a mess and he has to find a way to transcend that and whether it's making the website or he's sending a good agenda. >> let me just make my case. you guys don't have to agree with me. i look at the free ride the media has been giving the republican party. these birthers are treated as southern adamant people. gohmert, he's just a joke, doesn't matter. yet the right wing of the party, third of them, haters. it works for them.
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this decision to use three dozen states to go out there including pennsylvania to make sure blacks can't vote and have more whites voting and more conservative older white vote, that's systemic. on health care instead of playing defense, how about you go after the republicans who have 40 million people they want to commit to the emergency room. they don't want to lift a finger for them. and the independent media out there never brings it up. they have discussion after discussion of obama care. they're scoring one-half of the game. when the republicans come to bat, they don't even swing. isn't that worthy of a comment? >> yes. >> you never heard it on the news. you're doing it again. there isn't any republican website. there's nothing. >> listen. the media's not focusing on the hundreds of millions of americans who are benefitting. but the white house, too, has not been -- >> i want to try the governor. governor rendell, maybe it's
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hard for the news to cover something that doesn't exist. how do you cover the fact the republicans don't have a health care plan? they've never had one? you have to go back to nixon who wanted an employer mandate and that never happened. i don't know how you cover somebody. how do you ignore the fact one team doesn't do anything or even hope to do or promise to do anything? your thoughts. >> i think that's a great point, chris. and i think it's up to elected official democrats. mayors, governors, who do have some credibility to say come on, guys. you're attacking the president, what's your health care plan? you don't have one. so let's try to make this baby work because it's all we got. and i think the president can't do that himself. i think it's time for democrats and particularly local democrats. people listen to mayors. you know that, chris. they listen to mayors. where are the democratic mayors saying the republicans haven't offered you anything to help solve the health care program. the republicans have offered nothing.
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>> governor, i want you to start on this. you know this better than anybody here. you're a successful politician. why doesn't the president have a tong if you will, a gang. just call it a gang. that's what it is in political terms. 20 or 30 men and women around the country, governors, senators, members of congress, prominent members of congress who on a regular basis go out and attack opponents for doing nothing and playing racial politics. every every other game they play. or it's having no health care plan or using government tactics like shutting down the government or risking default on the national debt. why isn't there a chorus out there constantly pounding them? i don't hear a single -- is this fault he doesn't recruit? he doesn't hang out? he doesn't have friends? why aren't there people saying what he ought to be saying? >> i think there are people who are willing to do it but aren't being recruited. perfect simple, the day bill clinton was impeached, that
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saturday the democratic national committee organized every single city. the mayors, if we had a governor, all of the state senators, in philadelphia we had had about 80 public officials standing behind me and we decried the impeachment as purely political, a waste of time, not what the american people wanted in government. and that happened in every major market across the country. why aren't we doing stuff like that today? i don't know if david has the answer. because it's strange. >> he has no friends. i mean active friends. we know on television he does well. they've got a lot of people that know how to make a point. they're not doing it. >> i think they're getting out there -- >> they are? >> you see them on the show. >> oh. i hear silence. >> but at the same time -- >> they come out say we're working on health care.
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rooer trying. >> by and large, i don't think the white house has fully, you know, joined the battle for the political cultural battle with the republicans. i think the president has been reluctant to do that because he sees himself as president of all america. he doesn't like coming aoss as the angry guy. he wants to try to make deals. he did it a few times during the shutdown. you remember that. it seemed effective. but when the shut down's over, he goes back to -- >> the eagles won last night. congratulations. let me ask you this. do you notice the president's party, your party, tends to -- what do they do in football when ahead in points? they want to kill the clock. they fall down with the ball. why does obama's team do that now? did anyone tell them they're not winning the game. it's not time to bury the ball. >> yeah. i think the political acumen in the white house right now is lacking. there are people, david, who are
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willing to speak out. and it shouldn't be the president himself. he shouldn't be the angry man. it should be democrats, mayors, and governors to stand up and say come on, guys. he's trying to change the health care system for the better. and nobody has put a decent plan on the table. let's get behind the president and fix an american problem. we've got to do that all across the country. city after city. it can't be the president himself. this is a time chris said he needs supporters. >> thank you so much. coming up, when "60 minutes" reported on benghazi, republicans didn't see anything they didn't like so they could attack obama again and again. now that the story has been discredited, look who's got nothing to say. also many say they see christie as the party's savior. but not the tea partiers. let's face it, they're scared of this big guy. speaking of 2016, could elizabeth warren go at it with hillary clinton? this is a fascinating thing that's buzzing now on the
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democratic party left. how about a left wing candidate on the left going against a center left candidate. i think they'd love to see that. we'll see. we'll get to that tonight. finally, republicans love to compare things they don't like to slavery. the latest is the debt if you can believe that. sarah palin is onto that brilliant comment. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. you have time to shop for car insurance today? yeah. i heard about progressive's "name your price" tool? i guess you can tell them how much you want to pay and it gives you a range of options to choose from. huh? i'm looking at it right now. oh, yeah? yeah. what's the... guest room situation?
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the "name your price" tool, making the world a little more progressive.
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welcome back to "hardball." republicans are convinced they found hillary clinton's achilles heel, if you will. benghazi. and starting with the senate hearing in february. >> i think it's inexcusable that you did not know about this and you did not read these cables. i would think by anybody's estimation libya has to have been one of the hottest of hot spots around the world. not to know of the requests for securities, really i think cost these people their lives. their lives could have been saved had someone been more available, had someone been aware of these things, more on top of the job. >> and the beat goes on. dick cheney out promoting his book said, quote, she clearly wasn't hands on referring to the secretary of state. and now she doesn't want to be hands on. and she's doing everything she can to avoid responsibility for
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what clearly fell into her bailiwick. and what i always recall is her testimony saying what difference does it make? and the fact is the matter is it would make a huge different. it was never answered to a satisfactory answer. anyway, and back in may. politico senator lindsey graham posted on his facebook page the following. i think the dam is about to break on benghazi. we're going to find political manipulation seven weeks before an election. we're going to find people asleep at the switch when it comes to the state department including hillary clinton. you can imagine republican glee when two weeks ago cbs's "60 minutes" broadcast a story on how the situation was handled. here's that. >> cbs did this story on benghazi and i see criticism from the left where they go you're covering a phony scandal.
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>> and the "60 minutes" report recently that came out -- >> when i watched this report last night, i thought, well, about time. >> can you imagine if we knew these things before the election? >> can you only imagine. >> they're jumping with glee when "60 minutes" reported initially. but big development. laura logan delivered an apology for that story with a source that misled them about his whereabouts the night of the attack. >> after our report aired, questions arose about whether his account was true. when an incident report surfaced. it told a different story about what he did the night of the attack. davies denied having anything to do with that report. and insisted the story he told us was not only accurate, it was the same story he told the fbi when they interviewed him. on thursday night, when we discovered the account he gave the fbi was different than what
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he told us, we realized we had been misled. and it was a mistake to include him in our report. for that, we are very sorry. >> well not the republicans. the report may be discredited, but don't count on republicans to stop hitting hillary clinton with the very evidence that's now been discredited. joining me now is "the huffington post" ryan grim. ryan, tell us about this thing with what happened. the politics of it. i'm not a media critic, but the politics of this. about the republicans jumped on the report and now it's faded into silence since it's been discredited. your thoughts? >> well, the benghazi issue had faded. the second that "60 minutes" aired this report and they knew in advance this report was coming. they jumped all over it. lindsey graham said he'd put a hold on every nominee the president wanted anywhere in his
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administration until he got more witnesses to come to the senate to talk about what happened at benghazi. they immediately jumped on this hoping they could re-exploit this tragedy. >> so what do they got left after the eyewitness that wasn't an eyewitness disappears off to the klondike or wherever he is hiding off at. do they have something against hillary clinton or not or the president? >> four people died. you know, and that's an absolute tragedy. and she's secretary to have -- of state. takes responsibility for everything that happens to people under her command. they certainly have that. but how much they have depends on who they're talking to. if they're on or on the right wing e-mail chain ecochamber, then they can say whatever they want. there's no kind of
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constitutional fact checking going on. but this certainly dramatically damages them when it comes to the mainstream media. >> last point on the facts because you know them. this constant demand by lindsey graham for people from the attack that survived it. is that credible or is he just stretching it out. >> the white house has provided people for him to talk to. i think that's driving this is if you can get people to talk publicly, then it leads the nightly news. then it's back in the papers. so i think it's a pr strategy. i don't think that there are really questions that he really has that haven't been answered by the administration that would be by bringing these kind of people over to the senate. >> what do you make of this? what i see is the conflating they do all the time. or john kerry, vivid anti-war advocate against the war, so go after the service record.
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what did he do wrong? something to do with vietnam. they get confused because they don't watch the news every three hours. this way if they say it turned into an attack instead of something that began as an attack, they can say hillary clinton killed chris stevens. because he died. >> right. >> and that seems to be what they're up to. >> what they're up to is keeping the flames of anger alive. there are no new revelations now, chris. the only new thing "60 minutes" had was the testimony of this one guy who's now been discredited. the rest of the report -- remember, this is not something laid out with no investigation. we've had official investigations. we have hacongressional hearings. and nothing new really has come out. yes, four people died. but republicans are conflating the whole tragedy in ways that show who they think is going to be the democratic nominee in 2016.
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>> and what's their worst case goal? in other words, what is their ultimate dream they can get against hillary and the president? >> well, of course, you touched on it before. some kind of scandal before she even runs for president. but the tragedy, chris, is there is more to be known about the benghazi episode. but the story, whatever the real story is as it comes out, they've already discredited it now because they've cried wolf so much. so it becomes even less of a story now. but it's a great fund raiser for the right. >> let me just suggest something. i'm not taking sides because it remains murky for me, but it seems chris stevens who was really well -- everyone liked him. and obviously courageous. went into a dangerous situation, knowing that he makes decisions about where to go and what to do. they make decisions on how risky it is. he made the decision to visit that facility. how can you blame somebody back
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in washington for what erupted at the moment apparently? your thoughts. >> operating in a war zone carries with it certain risks. you try to minimize those risks, but, you know, you can't completely eliminate them. what you do is you put in place people that you trust to make the right decisions. they trusted his judgment. it was his judgment that he would be safe there. he wasn't wrong -- i mean, he was wrong and he paid the ultimate penalty. but the problem that people like lindsey graham have is they want to have it both ways. either hillary clinton is manipulating this situation or she was hands off. i mean, they've tried -- lindsey graham in your clip presented it as both. but it can't be both. you're either incompetent or you're competent. they want it both ways. >> i think they're gnawing on this. thank you for that latest report. looks like cbs has got a problem. doesn't keep the right from using the problem. >> don't let the lack of facts stop a good story, right?
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>> i think that's sadly true. thank you clarence page and ryan grim. up next sarah palin compares the debt. why not? if you can't use hitler use slavery. i don't know what that connection is. this is "hardball," the place for politics. i'ly imy 60's.
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and learn more about the kinds of plans that will be here for you now -- and down the road. i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is. back to "hardball." now for the sideshow. sarah palin spoke at a fund raiser out in iowa saturday where she described government spending as a democratic marketing tool, actually marketing ploy to give away as she said free stuff. of course she could have stopped after that analogy, but she went on to compare the federal debt to slavery. listen up. >> this free stuff is so seductive. why do you think marketers use free stuff to bring people in? free stuff is such a strong marketing ploy.
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our free stuff today is being paid for by taking money from our children and borrowing from china. when that note comes due -- and this isn't racist, so try it anyway. this isn't racist, but it's going to be like slavery when that note is due. right? we are going to be beholden to a foreign master. >> wow. anyway, up next, fight on the right. the tea party wants to make sure chris christie or anyone else who might appeal to the middle won't get the republican nomination. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.
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i'm milissa rehberger. the u.s. is pledging $20 million for relief efforts in the
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philippines after that devastating typhoon ripped across the islands on friday. the pentagon is sending uss george washington and other navy ships to that region. secretary of state kerry will brief a senate panel later on this week on failed talks with iran over disputed nuclear program. lawmakers are weighing whether tougher sanctions are needed. back to "hardball." ♪ welcome back to "hardball." republicans have a problem. there's no one in their party right now to appeals to the political middle of this country. the one guy who might, chris christie, is getting pummelled by the tea party right. joe carr borrow is out with a book called "the right path from ike to reagan." joe writes a tough critique of today's republican party and says the party can get right back on the track by following a pragmatic of ike and reagan. republicans need to broaden
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their appeal as those two did so successfully. they did buy compromising when necessary. he writes, quote, the kinds of compromises that led to historical greatness. at this present too imin the past or future without himself which is a great argument for being on this planet. you cannot be replaced. although that's a dangerous thing. let me ask you about the book. and i see this wonderful coincidence of the title of the book the right path. and then i see ronald reagan walking down the path. so he's on the right path. how do you find another reagan? how do you find someone who can win and not only win but win really big the second term and lead the country with a positive legacy for having been
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president? >> you know, reagan wasn't reagan as you remember very well even in the summer of 1980. a lot of people inside the carter white house and most people in the media didn't think reagan had a shot of being elected anything. but once he got into office, it's great talking to you about this because you were there and saw it up close. ronald reagan was extraordinarily conservative. tip o'neill and he couldn't be further apart. yet reagan figured day in and day out how to either fight tip o'neill and the democratic congress or strike deals when he knew he could get his 80% but had to give the 20% to the other side. he was pragmatic and he always found the middle of the political system. there was this great line from "the triumph of politics" from way back in the early '80s where reagan turned to his advisers and said, guys, i don't wear the black hat.
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reagan always believed that if he was going to be successful, if he was going to change the country, if he was going to make the country more conservative, he always had to be popular and win elections. he knew how to do it. and ike knew how to do it. we have forgotten as a party how to do it. because quite frankly we're more interested in political blood baths within our own party and conducting ideological witch trials than reaching to the middle of america. >> i think the only happy picture from last year's election which didn't make anybody really happy, 2012, was the picture of governor christie and the president walking down the beach. it showed christie could play politics. obviously the president wanted to be there. that was an easy one for him. but for christie to do it showed shrewdness, self-interest, and most importantly smart politics. >> yeah. no doubt about it. and you are exactly right. that's whatnot only the people of new jersey wanted to see at
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that time, but the people in america wanted to see. a lot of republicans were angry with chris christie for doing that. i understand why people in the romney campaign would have been miffed. maybe it seemed to them that he did it with too much glee. but here's the difference between mitt romney in 2012 and ronald reagan in 1980. if this had happened under jimmy carter in 1980, ronald reagan would have been the first to be smart enough to praise the president. even if that president were jimmy carter. romney never knew exactly how to do that. reagan knew how to do it. when you give your opponent their 20%, sometimes that actually ends up helping you more than it helps them. bill clinton was a master of giving us republicans our due when we came up with something. whether it was the balanced budget plan. he embraced it, praised us, then made that idea his own and his numbers shot up. that's why. >> the right wing has taken shots, of course, on governor christie since his win tuesday.
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and some of this potential 2016 rivals are skeptical whether christie is conservative enough to be the standard. let's listen to some of the chatter here. >> the road to the nomination for a moderate is actually pretty difficult because a lot of the republican primaries are very conservative. and so i think someone who's most well known for, you know, grabbing up federal money as much as they can get probably, i think, that kind of attitude may or may not go off so well in a primary. >> every race is particular to the state it is run in. there are factors in new jersey that are individual to that race. and clearly he was able to speak to that and to the people of new jersey. >> he was a successful governor in new jersey. now, does that transcend into the country? we'll see in later years and months to come. we're all different states. is a conservative in new jersey a conservative in the rest of the country? >> i would never put my faith
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and hope in any one individual politician. oh, please. not any of them. there is no ronald reagan on the scene today. new jersey, a blue state has a republican governor. right on. beats the alternative. >> you know what hit me when i watched that attack on him, i said instead of thinking any one of those guys is going to win especially rand paul, and thinking of christie. they'll see him as a rival before he gets there. they're thinking he might knock me out of this race. that's what i hear from rand paul. >> rand paul, i'm surprised by some of the things. i want to say something i don't say on my morning show. i agree with sarah palin. we get a blue state. we've got a republican governor. right on. everybody should be embracing it just like sarah palin said. and marco rubio touched on a larger truth. yes chris christie figured how
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to win in new jersey. he figured out how to reach out to a base that didn't had not -- just like ronald reagan in california in 1966. figured out a way to beat one of the most transformative california governors ever, pat brown. so the question is does christie have those political skills moving forward? i've got to say one thing about rand paul. and one thing, suggesting that chris christie was somehow too moderate to win the nomination. i've got to say, 2008 and 2012, we had two guys with much more moderate records than chris christie who got elected. and this whole idea that the hard right somehow wins nominations for the republican party is just wrong. they win iowa. >> don't you love the way people get tagged, joe? like bob casey of pennsylvania, he was a conservative because of abortion.
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and this guy because christie thought it made sense to help new jersey rather than not help new jersey after sandy, he's called a moderate. the guy is not big on construction. we know he wasn't for the tunnel going to new york. we know he's a tough tax guy. he's tough as hell on the teachers unions. i don't get the moderate tag on the guy. unless they want to beat him. >> i don't understand either, and i don't think that's going to work. again, you see it in the republican nomination all the time where, yes, it starts out a lot of conservative talk, occupies the main street media and people in the early voting states. then it turns out. and it goes to the midwest. this race is wide open. here's the most important thing. republicans aren't going to win again if we only elect the chris christie wing or only the rand paul wing.
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we've got to unite the two wings together. we've been engaged in a circular firing squad the last few years. we had ideological witch trials. commercials being run saying if you don't agree with our specific tactic on how to end obama care, you're not sufficiently conservative. >> i got an idea. this will drive you crazy. how about chris christie and louie gohmert. what do you think? that's a ticket. >> yeah. you'd like to ticket, wouldn't you? >> i would love that one. that would be colorful. a colorful ticket. we'd cover it well. >> you know what? we really don't know who's going to be elected. i know in 2007 we were all talking about at least on the morning show about the matchup between rudy giuliani and hillary clinton. we're not going to know for a very long time. here's the one thing i do know. if republicans are going to win in 2016, it's going to require them to unite the party the way reagan did. what does that mean? that means we're going to need a
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nominee that both ted cruz and colin powell can both support. that nominee is out there somewhere. we've got to find his or her. and when we do, we'll have a great shot of taking back the white house for the first time in eight years. >> it's great having you on joe scarborough. you are my doppelganger. >> thank you so much. >> the book's called "the right path." i'm holding it up. that's what you do. this is how republicans can win. if that is your cup of tea, having republicans win. up next, would progressives stick with hillary clinton if elizabeth warren challenged her in 2016? a little battle between left and middle left or left and center left? this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ mixer whirring ] my turn daddy, my turn! hold it steady now. i know daddy. [ dad ] oh boy, fasten your seatbelts everybody. [ mixer whirring ] bounty select-a-size. it's the smaller powerful sheet, that acts like a big sheet.
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president obama commemorated veterans day today by laying a wreath app arlington national cemetery and making a promise to our country's veterans. >> that's our promise to you and all who've served. to be there to support you when you come home every step of the way. and as a nation, we will strive to be worthy of the sacrifices that you've made. >> our commander in chief. the president also paid tribute to 107-year-old army veteran, 107-year-old army veteran who served in world war ii. he was at pearl harbor, okinawa, and iwo jima. all those places. we'll be right back.
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we're back. for months now the hillary clinton 2016 momentum has been building, of course. major democratic figures like chuck schumer, harry reid, and nancy pelosi have publicly urged her to run. grassroots groups have set up superpacs. unlike in 2008 when barack obama was seen as the democratic rock star, there isn't a real alternative waiting in the wings to go against hillary. here's the difference between mitt romney. he served in world war ii. he was at pearl harbor, he was at okinawa and iwo jima, all of those places. we'll be right back. "if hillary clinton runs and wins and populates yet another administration with heirs to robert ruben, it will be at least eight years to reclaim the party. she has a sense of destiny, says
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a former aid. if hillary or the man on the moon is not representing her stuff and her people don't have a seat at the table, she'll do what she can to make sure it's represented. joy reid is with and msnbc contributor. and josh green is senior political editor at "bloomberg businessweek." both of you, i want you both to espouse a possible course over the next two years whereby elizabeth warren runs for president with or without an opponent named hillary clinton. >> well, it's easy. i mean, elizabeth warren's political career, her career in the senate has been all about trying to tilt the powers in washington and wall street away from big banks and financiers and toward the middle class. >> and she's a hero to people on the left. >> she's a hero to people, but she's used her spot as a senator to harangue them and get coverage on the front page. nothing would give her more power in the media celebrity sphere than becoming a democratic candidate. >> we have videos of her taking on tv anchors or speaking on the
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senate floor become viral hits. here she is on the eve of the republican shutdown taking on republicans over health care in a video that's been watched millions of times online. >> i see things like this and i wonder what alternate reality some of my colleagues are living in. so, let me be very clear about what is happening in the real world. the aca is the law of the land. millions of people are counting on it, people who need health care coverage, people who need insurance policies that don't disappear just when they are at their sickest. women will get insurance coverage for birth control. the law is here to stay, and it will stay. >> joy, what's that do for you? >> you know what, i think that elizabeth warren is undoubtedly a rock star. she's a little star. that was extremely compelling. she represents that issue with a
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singularity of purpose that has the potential to make her a truly consequential senator on a teddy kennedy level and i think she has that potential in the united states senate. i question whether in terms of running for president, she would need a couple things that i don't yet see, one of which would be a huge grassroots money machine. let's face it, barack obama's stardom was backed by huge amounts of money, and i don't see yet, at least for elizabeth warren, that kind of grassroots core. and the second thing is a breadth of a base. elizabeth warren is a hero to the liberal democratic party, but mostly the white liberal part of the party, and as i look at that primary calendar and they take the primaries down south -- let's say she won iowa, then she has to face a huge swath of southern states where she's going to need black and brown votes. you've got nevada and arizona angling to maybe go earlier. there's not another big primary like a california until potentially june. so, i see a calendar not necessarily in her favor and an infrastructure that's going to be owned by the clintons, plus the obama machine.
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>> while you have the stand, joy, her gender, you skipped the one most people point to initially, of the two you mentioned. the first one's gender. what do you make of that? because there's no guy, if you will, out there challenging hillary, except vice president biden, whose purposes are unclear right now, but nobody in the field, in senate or governorships who's talking about running really. >> maybe cuomo, o'malley, but not a huge star. she and hillary both bring that. and i believe politics is about the hungriest base. in 2008, when barack obama talked about that dream written in the founding documents, he was speaking directly to the heart of african-americans who were hungry to have that office, and to young people who are hungry to have that office. he wasn't the liberal. it was john edwards who was the liberal guy, but when elizabeth warren is running as the woman, hillary has that, too, and women are the hungry base, i believe, going into 2016, and hillary's got electability. that's a powerful argument for women. >> and president barack obama was also the hero to the '60s people. i'm talking for them right now, okay?
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>> yeah, absolutely. >> i'm talking to them. >> that post 1964 generation, absolutely. >> i think it's a mistake to think about this only in terms of can elizabeth warren win. i think the real reason she might want to run is because if she did, her platform i think would instantly become a litmus test -- >> well, that's the argument without dividing the party -- >> i would liken it to ross perot, right? there's a man who ran for president, whose big issue, deficit reduction, was a shaping force of the campaign, taken up by bill clinton -- >> what's the occupation action on the left? it certainly helped bring mitt romney down. his 47% killed him. >> i think it's a radical reflection of what elizabeth warren stands for in the senate, an anger at wall street powers, an idea that some fundamental wrong is perpetuating itself, they have too much power and the scales need to be tilted back towards middle class. >> i think you're making a point and hillary clinton will have to touch that base. thank you so much, joy reid. as always, i think you're getting ahead of me on 2016, thinking it through. when you went to nevada, she's
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ahead of me again. i'm not patronizing. you have thought it through more than me. joy reid, thank you, and josh green, thank you for the intellectualism here.
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"let me finish" tonight with this. i just got back from atlanta, georgia, and the big book festival down at the jcc down there. the people could not have been nicer or more enthusiastic. tomorrow i'm in new york for the hudson union policy. "tip and the g


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