tv [untitled] April 6, 2011 9:30am-10:00am EDT
accused of inciting religious hatred after describing him as a terrorist even though the. new files to warsaw into the plane crash that killed president kaczynski ninety five. last april investigation into the tragedy that strained relations between the two countries is still underway. and up next we go inside the infamous of guantanamo bay detention center filmmakers try to expose what's really going on here without. tour nelson is featured as a witness in an investigation about the photos apparently he also worked at guantanamo when the request for tougher methods was sent. he agrees to meet with us and explain the methods used there. between one thousand change of scenery out and
change of scenery down this is where you take a person out of the environment that are used to and if you put them in a change of scenery out they put him in a nicer area change of scenery down i mean if you're going to put them into an isolation chamber cold conditions face lab stomach slap if you can hit them enough so that it shocks them especially if it gets a loud slap but you don't actually break any bones cut them bruise them and that's an effective technique as is the way that they were you sure for to it as the footing is actually placed over their head. and the interrogator. shouts their questions at him through the through the hood a prolonged standing if they were to do it for five seconds it wouldn't be too much about it after five ten minutes it really starts to to wear down their physical resistance increased anxiety by use of aversions if they had phobias of heights or
of certain animals you might introduce that to make them uncomfortable you could use these techniques if you got ten people to maybe give you a little bit of information using these techniques i guarantee you i could get one person to give more information if i was to convince that one person that were the good guys never their friends. throughout the time that i was there there was pressure from above for results. they weren't worried are you abiding by a chain of command and such doubt was him on a daily requests from higher command. requests that were coming down the pipeline
or what information he. got which sources have become key sources that's what they were results because their mentality was well the longer that we've got getting detention the more people we're going to get to break right in just a matter of time to get these guys to break. as one tunnel move become a testing ground for interrogation techniques which are then exported to other places. it can't be a coincidence that the same things we see in photos from abu ghraib in iraq are described in documents from guantanamo in cuba. but what is the connection and who exactly sent the requests to use tougher methods . it appears to be the same two star general who baucus had problems with. and if you look at the date the request was sent on tobar
eleventh. only two days after baucus left. and one month later neither barcus nor the two star general are still at the base. a new man has taken command general miller. the interrogation techniques that we use in j.p.n. . are approved by the senior leadership. shortly after miller took command rumsfeld personally approved the request for tougher interrogation methods he had only one objection. the inquiry requested permission to force prisoners to stand in stress position for up to four hours. in the margin rumsfeld himself scribbled i stand eight to ten hours a day why is standing limited to just four hours and was it like that
when when backless left he was soft. and then dollar short pier and then came miller who really. sort of. started it harsher techniques. i believe had no difficulty with pushing. from his own office to get more results and that was that was. no decide this man wanted everybody to break. and believe that the only right that the people that. was the right to give us intelligence it was the only rest were in the business of winning the global war on terror we also conduct ourselves as americans always do everything that goes on in camp delta is a representation of what we think makes america great. we decided to call up not
because again this time he was more cooperative. back you know i called you actually long time ago at a time he didn't want to. talk. about at liberty to give any of you to do to good point. there are so many rumors. that. we don't want to end. things he nag wrong way. what is the timeline for your story. in order to speak freely with us permission from the pentagon ok and did he. give you permission to participate with you be available for an interview and i would make myself available correct ok really good we would get by. former commander. talk about.
this case so you can you basically did it to give interview i can't tell them what to look for he said it ok but it sounds like. we approve it in other words. we had by. the right do it. why does the pentagon want to silence marcus. who fired him and why. and who was it that took the interrogation methods from guantanamo cuba to another great thing and. maybe the answer can be found somewhere else. after the scandal not too great when the photos came out command of the prison camp was taken over by none other then general miller. miller was sent to a break to clean up the mess after the scandal. the person miller replaces is
general janis karpinski many consider her to be responsible for what went on in the prison in iraq since she was the commanding officer at the time and it was her soldiers posing in the pictures. jenny. hit me yet i didn't act out this cultural sweet and tyrant are you. that expected to shatter actually. i mean i know this is not. maybe your area of interest but. you heard about the dispute between baucus and the other day because of the occasion to cakes. i think that that's right back fired it takes up yet. and and see everybody down it one time
ok i dare miller they were all required to sign a formal statement from the government which is all the time disclosure statement and that means when they leave guantanamo bay they can't just got anything that they the door participated in i have to meet you if you live in it i live in carolina which is right on the code and. rumor has it taken pinsky is now in an open conflict with the army after being demoted and relieved of her title as a general. for the abuses in the prison she's been found not guilty but because three years ago she said to have shoplifted a perfume bottle she's even said to hate general miller and that she accuses him of the abuses in abu ghraib. but baucus she was chief over the military police and
like him she also came in conflict with the interrogation leaders and just like baucus she was replaced by general miller could she know something about how interrogation methods developed at guantanamo can show up in photos from abu ghraib prison iraq it's not a coincidence if the request for more aggressive take me if the memorandum was forwarded after backus left here's a guy who is trained as a military police officer knows geneva conventions knows crossing the line and knows the limitations and is forced to command that military police detention operations in guantanamo bay that he discovers or maybe in the process of his assignment there they determine the geneva conventions no longer apply down there have you met him i mean i don't know i have not and he has been silent. it's almost eerie silence he's been with. fired first about this and then he
fired you why did you talk because i didn't sign a non-disclosure statement number one and number two i know the truth i don't know all of it obviously but i know the truth and i know i didn't know what was going on in cell block one a b. and i know that they didn't let me know because they knew i would have screamed about it and i know that the m.p.'s that were there were directed to do what they did now someone senior to them made them to believe that it was ok. somebody who claimed to be an interrogator from up there he said name the real purpose of those pictures to make the interrogations easier. we all agree that. we all feel like we were doing.
things that we weren't supposed to because we were told. we think everything was justified because we were instructed to do this. you know how certain are you feeling carrying any regrets. talk to secretary of defense about this just more of what i said find the truth and then tell the iraqi people and the world the truth we are we have nothing to hide and we we we we we believe in transparency because we're a free society that's for free societies to. take any and all actions as may be needed to find out what happened and to see that appropriate steps are taken the investigation went quickly and the only ones prosecuted were the seven soldiers pictured in the photos. and the miller was sent in to clean up after the scandal yes i would like to personally apologize to the people of iraq for the support of
cording to karpinski general miller had already been in abu ghraib earlier before the pictures of abuse came out. he came from guantanamo on a secret mission general miller never mentioned it but we found out later that he actually came on the same plane as secretary of defense from so he did this in brief with the all of the interrogators and the commander of the military intelligence brigade and general fay austin the people from her staff that were involved in interrogations and he started out by saying that he was there to assess their operations. to help them to achieve more actionable intelligence he said i think you're the person to well. said you really need to treat them like dogs because if you treat them any better than that you've effectively lost control of the interrogation and before that meeting this over he said. with his with
the lessons they've learned. from guantanamo bay and in other locations he was going to get more wise. this is the report of the general miller and his seventeen experts from left after their visit to abu ghraib just one month before the scandal broke out. here you can read his suggestions on how he would like to make the interrogations more effective for example he wants to use the military police who previously were only used as prison guards to prepare the prisoners for interrogation. and here is an overhead found in there's no one wants to take responsibility for the interrogation methods of the same develop. and here is miller being questioned by a senator about his visit to abu ghraib before the documents came out.
specifically. these methods could be used in that prison contrary to. contrary to the geneva convention. system stream. there were things. i was only there to. control of that prison and knew what was going on out there it wouldn't have gone out there. even though karpinski and baugus lost control and both kept quiet as the new methods were introduced maybe there are no real heroes in this story only people with more or less control
and some people who seem to be outside of any control or regulation. when we read the documents we discover strange little detail. in the scandal surrounding abu ghraib it's not just soldiers in the investigation. and there were also civilians involved in the abuse against prisoners so-called contractors that for some reason were never brought to trial. what exactly is a contractor the man in the red tie is paul bremmer. he was generous karpinski his boss in iraq. the man walking beside him with a machine gun isn't a soldier he's a contractor from blackwater we're talking here about a mercenary we're talking about a hired. gun. and when you have in iraq. a man with a gun. who is hired to use that weapon you're talking about
a soldier without all of the battles that there are no rules or regulations governing the use the people. we wanted to get in touch with someone at blackwater who can explain to us what exactly a contractor does. try to reach mr burt success and i want to talk to regarding press issues. blackwater so many times that we've lost count but they don't seem to want to talk to us. put it appears that the coalition doesn't just use blackwater. the fact is there are over twenty thousand private contractors in iraq they constitute the second largest force after the american army. and hundreds of firms around the world around private contractors. have.
one search for just a romanian security company. who are in bucharest will show us what their services include. me work like a private company in all other countries in the west. well . right. in the private system of more mobility. way because. over the all of the media that is they. have the us it's not the left not the right. only. what we've got is a situation where we have a thousands of armed less than those in iraq using their weapons without any rules
without any rules of engagement a little behind that there is no role for the. forty first marine was killed in one week not a single story appeared in the paper the coalition needs these people because they want to reduce casualties. in a sense way using freelance. mercenaries as found bags to protect not only our soldiers thought the casualty figures of ourselves as well. that's one tunnel do you think they were contractors they're two contractors just started to be used weighted towards the end of my tour. once on a mob and there was only one or two that i saw one when i left when we're talking
about abu ghraib though the percentage goes from maybe five or ten percent of the overall force up to fifty percent of the actual interrogation and analysis force there so you you were a grade as soldier know and every bit as a civilian contractor. i mean it's a good just when i think of it i mean comparable unconventional war think of a conflict for example the one in iraq think of the bell kids think back to world war two when you take. people captive to corral to hold the board most of hostilities and there's a legal basis for that this is the same principle that is being applied here the only difference is that we have an unconventional war where the word is against a private organization rather than a state i mean this way think of an. unconventional war whether it is against the privatization. of the state that is you.
know how to get it is nigeria people in we have here does not belong to responsible . was known as. the name of an unconventional war the us is against the final position. in essence t.q. many people who don't believe they do you just happen to be of the wrong place at the wrong time. not can you tell them. the nonsense the question she doesn't believe one if they don't believe the. going to say what do you want to tell those who don't believe in you and your story . i hope other detainees who will be released later they will be able to explain in a stronger way. i mean these things we didn't understand why were you there
if . ok basically in the serial here we have camp for camp for open and in march beginning of march in the camp for is for detainees who are cooperating in detainees or that are getting closer to be released surrealistic. just eft. play plays if these forces we can hear from here ok the voices they hear are around the voices of detainees in the chain. of command and one reason why you can hear him so well is because in the nighttime it's very quiet out here though not as many vehicles
moving so because it's so quiet in the series you can hear the voices of the detainees. what if. they are units eight by eight with a certain what they see what do they say they have the they have the opportunity to speak to one another so often. you know so i would imagine that you're talking to one another some of them may be praying some of them are just just talking and they may be talking to someone farther down yelling towards them so just normal conversation there and sometimes you can hear prayer call the prayer or just chatter in a trade fair. what
happens to the prisoners still counts at guantanamo. and what happens to those who are released. they're going nearly four hundred separate neither of this is true or a total of it by more than one files and trials additionally some one hundred eighty congressional representatives have visited the facility. arguably no detention facility in the history of warfare has been more transparent or received more than one term. of the us we've been at guantanamo and we still don't know what really happens inside them. but maybe that's not the most important thing because what we do know is enough. we know that there are still prisoners held inside there was lost to their right to remain silent.
and who don't even know if they are ever going to get out. joe miller knowing it one time eligibility for you to do it all for seventy two point natures for stress and duress leads out types of question escalating levels being called harsher heat or cold withholding food hoarding for days at a time naked isolation and cold dark cells is that correct categorically incorrect at every health care gorge which is in the correct.
safe things this is not a prohibition but worn. face. and you should see stairs are you sure it's a pretty trace because they have no idea about the hardships to face. they wanted to says it all to tunis and for any army the life of a usaf is the most precious thing in the world. is of self-sacrifice and heroism with those who understand it fully you have to live a. real life stories from world war. two true nineteen forty five dollars on t.v. dot com.
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