tv [untitled] May 23, 2011 4:00pm-4:30pm EDT
so close photos in the big old circus or chill. creek in the steep limits rather some this is really. good switching to look you think of school you. know sort of. the united states will stand up against efforts to single israel the united nations or any international for israel's legitimacy for debate. but a two state solution is a central topic for debate so as president obama tries pleasing all parties involved in the israeli palestinian conflict are his efforts doing more harm than good. and the ousting of egyptian president hosni mubarak may result in a harmful outcome so as hamas and fatah start working together is the situation for israel going from bad to worse all thanks to their closest ally.
cheers commonly coming from palestinians this time coming from a group of trust traditional jews so just because this group rejects the state of israel does that mean they're traitors. it's monday may twenty third four pm here in washington d.c. i'm christine for is out there watching our team. well what brings together the president of the united states the house speaker the senate majority leader and other top lawmakers from both sides of the aisle not the debt ceiling and not a state dinner but a meeting of a man an american israel public affairs committee a powerful pro israel lobby dubbed a pac how this conference over the weekend in washington it comes at a time when middle east peace negotiations are on the minds of everyone involved
what is argued guy in a chicken reports this agreement may keep them from getting to the table. president obama's calls for peace and a two state solution fell on deaf ears both with israelis for many from the mere mentioning of going back to pre-one nine hundred sixty seven border lines is unacceptable if you cannot go through the motions so much. because these lines are essential. and with the palestinians who believe there is nothing but words in what the u.s. president has said is not a pressure on it if you know the prime minister of israel or in israel's government how it's like ross it's like things like it's very hopeless like we hear the right things kind of implementation addressing the powerful always remark in washington and president obama has made sure we really found that no pressure would be put on this real quick because the process and these proposed solution was just the
friend's advice cannot be imposed on the parties to the conflict. no vote at the united nations will ever create an independent palestinian state and the united states will stand up against our first a single israel out at the united nations or in any international forum israel's legitimacy is not an honor for me if they say the contradiction of words and deeds has been a constant source of global first ration about the us foreign policy in the middle east. one example. the obama administration has called these really settlement expansion illegitimate but when it came to actually voting at the un security council condemned the settlement expansion is illegal the us veto the resolution the failure of the united states deal effectively with the israel palestine issue. and standards that we have actually apply to the president made a very strong case that we should not tolerate civilians being bludgeoned by.
their rulers but we do nothing when the movie is released to all these things. but cost of all the pretty hard in terms of our credibility and prestige internationally and that's not important survey suggests president obama's ratings in the muslim world are as low as ever experts say the inconsistency with which the u.s. reacted to different episodes of the arab uprising is to blame president obama's speech on thursday was seen as a way to reach out to the airballs and say the u.s. supports men and women of the street as opposed to suppressing looks but it seems these words resulted in more confusion about u.s. policies particularly when it came to these really palestinian conflict obama said what he said in the last speech. most of the palestinians feel frustrated. the media.
also. goes so i don't know who is that the i don't live the speech that president obama is facing pressure from both the international community that has long been suggesting the two state solution and the nine hundred sixty seven border lies as part of the solution and it's like israel which finds that proposal unrealistic president obama's attempts to please both the international community and this will in turn have resulted in yet another nonstarter in the middle east peace process i'm going to check out reporting from washington r.t. . well the implications of this annual conference are enormous every year but this one in particular with the arab spring and also recent new partnerships in the middle east and an overall changing mood there is so much that can be said about all of this of course and certainly there are some strong opinions on all sides well to give us a few of those opinions i'm joined here in studio by dan pollack co-director of government relations for the zionist organization of america and in our new york
studio norman finkelstein political science and scientists and also author of this time we went too far truth and consequences of the gaza invasion and you know as i say as we start this discussion i think it's going to be important to clarify a few different things that when it comes to middle east peace and dan i will start with you what is acceptable what i mean are you willing to negotiate and what would you give willing to give up or give in on well to begin with i work for an american organization not the israeli government but the israelis are extremely anxious to have peace that is a part conference about all they talk about is peace and how it should be achieved so peace is the ultimate objective of everyone i know in israel both sides of the political spectrum the problem is is about what the conflict is really about and. the united states in formulating issues relating to territory is not getting to the
core issue the core issue in my view and probably in the view of most israelis is the inability of the arab world and the palestinians to accept the very existence of a jewish state in the midst of the middle east and until that issue gets satisfied all the talk of potential border resolutions and all the other things that are being focused on really don't care it's towards that end of peace and i think president obama even mentioned that in his speech at apac yesterday that it is absolutely you know essential that people from israel are negotiating with others who recognize that however on the other side of that people in palestine think the same thing they want to be recognized as their own state and they don't feel like they are so normal have you speak to that. you know the recognition of what each side is very very sick principles from resulting the conflict have been put forth repeatedly by the international community whether it
be the international court of justice in july two thousand and four or the united nations general assembly and your resolution the terms are straightforward there has to be a two state settlement on the june nineteenth sixty seven border israel is exercising sovereignty and independence within its state and the powers then the insects and sizing sovereignty and self-determination and the whole of that was. an east jerusalem as its capital and there also has to be just resolution of the palestinian refugee question those are the terms now karen a new term he says in israel has to be recognized as a jewish state. but there is no basis of the for that in international law and in fact your listeners have to remember this is not of the first
time israel has attempted to solve this conflict with its neighbors they have a peace treaty with egypt it was signed in one nine hundred seventy nine they have a peace treaty with jordan it was signed in one nine hundred ninety four in a neither case if you read the texts of these peace treaties in neither case is there any mention of recognizing israel as a jewish state. mr pollock simply pulling this rabbit out of the hat are not a means to sabotage a resolution of the conflict on the basis of the law and i'll actually respond to that and i really couldn't disagree more with several points first of all the. international law that applies here is un resolution two forty two which does not
require that all of the disputed territory of what israel is called and some area and what the dr finkelstein called the west bank be given to the palestinians in fact it's disputed territory the palestinian negotiating ploy seems to be what's yours is because shabelle and what's mine is mine as he said in its entirety everything has to be part of a palestinian state in fact that is precisely what needs to be negotiated and it is the arab side who has steadfastly refused to enter into negotiations direct negotiations that could lead to any kind of peaceful resolution so he's wrong about the international law that applies the general assembly does not determine international law so the fact that they say they're true some should be the couple that are saying things and when you say that the palestinians have said that they're not willing to give anything i mean we start with the palestinian people as we start with a lot of different things that happen and i've come out in the last few months that in fact at least the palestinian leaders have been willing to put just about
everything on the table when it comes to negotiating and there's just a few things that they've asked for from israel that don't seem to be you know no one seems to be budging on well actually those papers were transcripts of the palestinian side of negotiations from several years ago and there's two important facts to know about that first of all they haven't put anything on the table they haven't agreed to even sit down with the israelis and discuss things through the vast majority of the obama term but secondly the reason those palestinian papers made such news is that the palestinian negotiators have been withholding these very negotiating. positions from their own people and in fact they disavowed and still claim to this day that those very concessions about allowing some jewish neighborhoods in jerusalem to remain under israeli control they denied that they ever made such concessions now i would be very pleased if
a person to negotiating team would return to the table with israel and start negotiating whatever basis and i would be pleased if they would actually observe the agreements they've made in the past which require them to stop incitement against the jewish state and finally i would be pleased if they. would choose peace instead of the fatah hamas agreement where they've just reading agreement over the last two weeks with hamas which is a terrorist state as defined by the european union in the united states a terrorist entity and not helpful neither to american diplomacy in the region nor the prospects of peace and we should mention that hamas and fatah are meeting in moscow to talk about this and it is not hamas is not called a terrorist organization by everyone not by moscow and not by the united nations i believe but. still must go has asked and i'll let you get in here in just
a second or but let me let's talk about what's going on here. is marco had asked how are. consider recognizing israel as a jewish state does this have to happen if it does happen. what would be the result or loathing through there are three things that. first of all as i mentioned a moment ago there is no precedent in international law and there is no precedent in the peace treaties israel has already signed with egypt or jordan for recognizing israel as a jewish state number of whom everybody talks about what hamas will do but not about what israel has to do the very same day the very same day last friday when president obama delivered his speech on the middle
east the new york times ran a large ed by the deputy speaker of the israeli knesset who also happens to be a senior member of the local party mr netanyahu sparty now bear in mind the look good is the most moderate element of netanyahu this coalition so we're not talking about extremists like avigdor lieberman we're talking about the moderate look good and then we are danny danon the senior member of a lot could he put forward his vision the deputies speaker of the israeli knesset his vision for resolving the conflict in. israel should annex all of the jewish communities as he calls them the illegal jewish settlements in
the occupied palestinian territories all of that he calls the uninhabited areas of the west going and he says we will let the palestinians in the main towns of the west bank have independence which means israel will alex ninety seven percent of the west bank. and the palestinians in the main homes that is to say three percent of the was going they can have independence of their own money that's the vision of the most moderate element of next in yahoo's coalition and yet every god uses or tells hamas what it must do what about what is really government must
do and or these questions certainly here on these questions certainly come at a very interesting time with what we're seeing going on right now what we've seen going on over the last six months with the arab spring israel have found itself surrounded by revolutionaries in the region and there are plenty of concerns i know that you and i have talked about those that israel has but it's interesting too the role of the u.s. the u.s. is literally found itself caught between supporting democracy and foreign policy interests there in each country has been in a tough spot and i want to play a story for both of you and then we'll talk more about it this is our tease tullus later. ody is happier than he's been in a long time the political activist used to be a member of fatah switched to harm us because he feels betrayed dealings with israel and one who must might be considered a terrorist organization by israel and the united states only says the movement shows his goals goals that are now being furthered by a new friend cairo. is not only be happy to egypt your president hosni mubarak has
drawn all the arab world it has never had a connection with any muslim organization he had the same hate israel israelis should be worried and israelis are the reconciliation deal between better rivals hamas and that our side recently in cairo took them by surprise and could never have happened if mubarak was still in power i think that there was a lot of mistrust between the hamas that mubarak and his regime have looked upon barak not as a horn was broken because of. the deal in his four years of division between hamas and fattah and political players in what he planned to ration of palestinian statehood in september i am most afraid that hamas. at. the west bank in a kind of free legal way by the palestinian authority.
sooner rather than later or they will overtake the west bank and this might be then a problem not only for the palestinians it will be a problem for israel had this is one of the many checkpoints between israel and the palestinian territories as cairo extends a hand to the palestinians and security here is likely to be beefed up in the three months since mubarak was ousted no one's replaced and some believe the americans gave up the old friend to really and to easily and this calculating that his replacement would be a democratic going to be. interests instead it's the generals who continue to the shots and they are playing this man. union egypt want to. run on the one on the other hand they want to establish a new relationship with us we're not so sure about the new government.
so ironically while rushing to the thought it was creating a safer middle east its closest ally israel is suffering a recent poll found that fifty four percent of egyptians want to see the egyptian is really peace treaty cancelled a statistic that has his ratings terrified and missing the old wooden. the r t and the palestinian authority. so let's talk about egypt for a little a little while and certainly what we've seen a lot going on there and wondering dan what do you think will happen how the elections in egypt will change things if at all. well everyone who cares about the region has to be very concerned a lot of people have been very optimistic simply without cause to me the fact is that the most well organized gyptian group is the muslim brotherhood who are let's face it both anti-american and anti israel by temperament they're also anti-semitic in fact it's very disturbing and the most likely scenario unfortunately is
they may very well come to power if not right away then in a couple of years and they're democratic bonafide are by no means assured hamas is in fact the palestinian version of the muslim brotherhood let me get you in to react to this norm i mean do you agree that the muslim brotherhood if a is anti-american and anti israel and you agree that if they came to power that things could really spiral out of control. well by coincidence i just came back from egypt i was aware last week and i have to say i was surprised by the degree of passion and concern by the egyptian people for what's happening in palestine in particular and not exclusively about what's happening among the people in gaza. and there is no doubt that whatever government comes to power in egypt
it's going to feel the pressures from the low to enable the palestinians or support the right of the palestinians to have a decent life in their own homeland on the other hand all of the egyptian potential candidates for president. who are interviewed so far all of them say that there is no intention to renounce the one nine hundred seventy nine egypt israeli peace treaty there are there is talk about really no we had a go she aiding parts of it but not renouncing the treaty as a whole and i think that prospect is rather then i think that the egyptians will stand by the treaty as a whole i want to go back to that i would also i would however i want to make the point because again it seems to me the burden is always shifted in the direction of
the powers to indians or in this case the egyptians there are radicals already in power extremists already in power those radicals and extremists they are in power in israel there are people like avigdor lieberman who many israelis call a fascist there and out of that are in israel i wouldn't say so many people call dr finkelstein many names to that doesn't make it true the thing he failed to mention about the israelis op ed piece in the a new york times is that the deputy speaker of the knesset was talking about what israel might do in response to unilateral action by the palestinian authority which they've announced they're going to take in violation of their signed agreements so in fact the very opposite peace he was talking about was talking about. responses to the palestinian authority is a provocation for the more when we talk about hamas and you pointed out correctly
that russia does not consider them a terrorist organization but they do consider the groups that do the exact same things inside russia and are muslim extremists to be terrorist organizations hamas is has murdered thousands of israelis the numbers not in the hundreds it's thousands and they've shot thousands of missiles into peaceful when israel is not in a state of war it is shot missiles into israel proper the ne the finish and of you know moving forward towards peace as dr finkelstein says requires both sides to agree to things but israel simply will not agree either to make him happy you know to make the palestinians happy with an agreement that does not provide them with real security there's so many different aspects of the discussion here that i want to kind of try to fit in as we run out of time but one of them is whether or not palestine will be recognized by the international community and united nations is certainly a debate and it's been
a pretty outspoken group that has shown up that we see here in washington at every rally and i want to show through our season right of course that the detroit cards are and their role in all of this. every rally. every demonstration. every opportunity to voice opposition. a particular course of orthodox jews joins forces with the loud choir of palestinian supporters. the collective voice is otherwise known as no tory carter true traditional jews are religiously opposed to the creation and existence of israel then it's like it was it is it it has latched itself into was terrible evil movement of zionism which is the ideology behind the
state of israel has hijacked the war begun according to rabbi dovid rights jews were exiled from the land of israel because of their sins which were a karcher worshippers believe restoration of the land should only happen with the coming of the messiah and told them we are. to have any sovereignty. according to neutral way karcher israel and zionism are in direct conflict with the torah they campaign for israel to be dismantled and the holy land returned to arabs who originally occupied. territory cartel can best be understood within the confines of east williamsburg brooklyn which comprises the largest community of orthodox jews in the us an inclusive neighborhood dressed in traditional modest clothing defined by large families of up to twelve kids hear you speak yiddish. pray three times a day and display no flag of support for israel the jewish children living in this
community all attend private schools boys and girls are separated but supporters of natori car ties say all the students learn from a curriculum. that opposes israel and zionism rabbi dovid feldman says activism plays a strong role in the religious life of new tory courted jews and this includes meeting with leaders of muslim countries who have no problem with humans. from the color. we choose. we suspect we do have a serious problem with occupation which we have. an agreement that has raised eyebrows members of the tory courts i have spoken several times with iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad who they call a peace loving leader were these publicly praised turkish officials and even traveled to the country last year visiting injured activists following that is
really very much on the gaza flotilla. very often overseas demonstrations against israel have turned violent from london and montreal to the middle east a bloody and bruising backlash has transpired critics have classified jews as extremists and israel supporters deem them as traitors even here in new york city. where the. rabbi weiss is familiar with the dangers that surround notorious. people who live through this it is very it's not an easy life devoted to their feet even if it means facing contempt every step of the way. r.t. new york so this world report i want to talk about and it's very hard to norm talk about this group i know that there are some people who say that there are extremists that the radical and criticize them for you know having met with
ahmadinejad do you think that having met with. makes them extremists. well first of all i was simply a matter of principle if you want to resolve a conflict within and then me obviously at some point along the way for me to negotiate i don't think that their record of say are. is worse than the record of any leader of the state of israel there is no record of around having. invaded threatened. wars against its neighbors. the current world record has been pretty good respecting the rights and responsibilities its own rights and responsibilities in those of its neighbors and i'm going to interrupt your regular and just play our something you said dan he norm just said in order to resolve a conflict with an enemy you have to meet with that enemy talk about that in terms
of this group and in terms of sort of what we've been talking about this whole thirty minutes this group is really a tiny sliver of the orthodox jewish community and they have theological objections to the establishing the state of israel but putting them on t.v. is a little bit like taking the people who thought the world was going to end with this weekend and making them representative of all christians in the united states they really are a very tiny fringe and their error and i do criticize them in meeting with who isn't just an enemy he's someone who has both denied the holocaust that occurred during world war two and said that israel will be wiped off the map and he's building nuclear weapons to do it you know and he treats his people a business all the things that have happened in the arab spring. have occurred much with much more deadly force in iran all right unfortunately we are out of time and i wanted to get you anywhere lots to discuss of course surrounding this topic unfortunately that's going to.