tv [untitled] May 23, 2011 5:00pm-5:30pm EDT
three. three. three. three blogs live video for your media project a free video gargi dot com. and the united states will stand up against efforts to single israel the united nations or in any international forum israel's legitimacy is not a matter for debate but a two state solution is essential topic for debate so as president obama tries pleasing all parties involved in the israeli palestinian conflict part of africa doing more harm than good. and the ousting of egyptian president hosni mubarak may result in an unintended outcome so if hamas and fatah start working together is the situation for israel going from bad to worse all thanks to their closest ally.
cheers commonly coming from palestinians this time coming from a group of all church and traditional jews so just because this group rejects the state of israel that mean they're traitors. it's monday may twenty third i'm christine friends now here in washington d.c. watching our team. well one brings together the president of the united states the house speaker the senate majority leader and other top lawmakers from both sides of the aisle not the debt ceiling not a state dinner but a meeting of the american israel public affairs committee the powerful pro israel lobby doug apac held its conference over the weekend here in washington this comes at a time when middle east peace negotiations are on the minds of everyone involved but
aren't you going to chicken reports disagreements may keep them from getting to the table. that president obama's calls for peace and a two state solution fell on deaf ears both with its release for many from the near mentioning of going back to prison nine hundred sixty seven border lines is unacceptable. because you want to reach. with the palestinians so i believe there is nothing but words in what the u.s. president has said is not a proper pressure on you to be a whole the prime minister of israel or of israel. it's like for us it's like a lose lose things like it's very hopeless like we hear the right things but no kind of implementation addressing this powerful tool was really lobbying washington this in those moments make sure to be really firm that no pressure would be put on israel good because the process and these proposed solution was because the friend's advice cannot be imposed on the parties to the cards. no vote at the
united nations will ever create an independent palestinian state and the united states will stand against the first the single israel out at the united nations or in any international forum israel's legitimacy is now being reported. and they say the contradiction of words and deeds has been a constant source of global frustration about the u.s. foreign policy in the middle east. one example. the obama administration has called these really settlement expansion illegitimate but when it came to actually voting at the u.n. security council condemned the settlement expansion is illegal the u.s. veto the resolution the failure of the united states to deal effectively with the israel palestine issue and double standards for. the president made a very strong case but we should not tolerate civilians being
a. part of their rulers but we do nothing when the when the israelis do all these things for the palestinians the cost of all the pretty hard in terms of our credibility and personally internationally and that's not an important survey suggests president obama's ratings in the muslim world are as low as ever experts say the inconsistency with which the u.s. reacted to different episodes of the arab uprising is to blame president obama's speech on thursday was seen as a way to reach out to the arab world and say the u.s. supports men and women of the street as opposed to suppressing loops but it seems he's worth resulted in more confusion about u.s. policies particularly when it came to these really col seen in conflict. said what he said in the last speech. was to the palestinians feel frustrated. i was leaving all the. media.
they are also. i don't know who the. president obama is facing pressure from both the international community that as long the suggesting the two state solution and the nine hundred sixty seven border life as part of the solution and. which ones that were called will unrealistic president obama's attempts to please both the international community and its internet resulted in yet another nonstarter to meet the peace process i'm going to check out reporting from washington r.t. what the implications of this annual conference are enormous every year but this one in particular with the arab spring and also recent new partnerships in the middle east and an overall changing mood there is so much that can be said about all of this of course and certainly there are some strong opinions on all sides but also give us a few of those opinions i'm joined here in studio by downfall of co-director of government relations for the dinosaur gazeta of america and in our new york studio norman finkelstein political science and scientists and also author of this time we
went too far truth in consequences of the gaza invasion and you know as i as we start this discussion i think it's going to be important to clarify a few different things that when it comes to middle east peace and then i will start with you what is acceptable what i mean are you willing to negotiate and what would you be willing to give up or give in on was to begin with i work for an american organization not the israeli government but the israelis are extremely anxious to have peace conference about all they talk about is peace and how it should be achieved so peace is the also the objective of everyone i know in israel both sides of the political spectrum the problem is about what the conflict is really about and the united states in formulating issues relating to territory is not getting to the core issue the core issue in my view and probably
in the view of most israelis is. the inability of the arab world and the palestinians to accept the very existence of a jewish state in the midst of the middle east and until that issue gets satisfied all the talk of potential border resolutions and all the other things that are being focused on really don't get us towards that end of peace and i think president obama even mentioned that in his speech at apac yesterday that it is absolutely you know essential that people from israel are negotiating with others who recognize them however on the other side of that people in palestine think the same thing they want to be recognized as their own state and they don't feel like they are so normal have you speak to that. you know the recognition of what each side is. vera grace it principles for resolving the conflict has been put forth repeatedly by the international community whether it be
the international court of justice in july two thousand and four or the united nations general assembly in annual resolution the terms are straightforward there has to be a two state settlement on the june one thousand nine hundred sixty seven border israel x. axis izing sovereignty and independence within its state and a power stinney and second sizing sovereignty in self-determination and the whole of the west bank gaza and east jerusalem as its capital and there also has to be a just resolution of the palestinian refugee question those are the terms now ken has added a new term he says in israel has to be recognized as a jewish state but there's no basis of that for that in international law and in fact your listeners have to remember this is not the first the first
time israel has attempted to some lives conflict with its neighbors they have a peace treaty with egypt that was signed in one thousand nine hundred seventy nine they have a peace treaty with jordan it was signed in one nine hundred ninety four in the neither case if you read the texts of these t's treaties in neither case is there any mention of recognizing israel as a jewish state mr pollack is simply pulling this rabbit out of the hat another means to sabotage a resolution of the conflict on the basis of the law now or to respond to that and i really couldn't disagree more with several points first of all the. international law that applies here is un resolution two forty two which does not require that all of the disputed territory of what israel is called today and some area and what
the dr finkelstein called the west bank be given to the palestinians in fact is to steer the territory the palestinian negotiating ploy seems to be what's yours is to go shovel and what's mine is mine as he says in its entirety everything has to be part of a palestinian state in fact that is precisely what needs to be negotiated and it is the arab side who has steadfastly refused to enter into negotiations direct negotiations that could lead to any kind of peaceful resolution so he's wrong about the international law that applies the general assembly does not determine international law so the fact that they say that jerusalem should be the capital that are standing again when you think that the palestinians have said that they're not willing to give anything i mean we saw with the palestinian papers we saw with a lot of different things that happen and i've come out in the last few months that in fact at least a palestinian leaders have been willing to put just about everything on the table
when it comes to negotiating and there's just a few things that they've asked for from israel that don't seem to be you know wanting to be gods or not but actually those papers were transcripts of the palestinian side of negotiations from several years ago and there's two important facts to know about that first of all they haven't put anything on the table they haven't agreed to even sit down with the israelis and discuss things to the vast majority of the obama term but secondly the reason those palestinian papers made such news is that the tiles and the negotiators have been withholding we is a very negotiating. positions from their own people and attract they disavowed vem and still claim to this day that those very concessions about allowing some jewish neighborhoods in jerusalem to remain under israeli control they deny that they ever made such concessions now i would be very pleased if a palestinian negotiating team would return to the table with israel and start
negotiating on whatever basis and i would be pleased if they would actually observe the agreements they've made in the past which require them to stop incitement against a jewish state and finally i would be pleased if they. would choose peace instead of the fatah hamas agreement where they've just made an agreement over the last two weeks with hamas which is a terrorist state as defined by the european union and the united states it terrorist entity and not helpful neither to american diplomacy in the region nor the prospects of peace and we should mention that hamas and fatah are meeting in moscow to talk about this and it is not hamas it's not called i terrorist organization by everyone not by nasco and not by the united nations i believe but. still michael has asked you're not and i'll let you get in here and at the second
hour but i'll let anyone talk about what's going on here. if not go ahead asked how large. consider recognizing israel as a jewish state does this have to happen if it does happen. what would be the result . you know i think there are three there are three things to be said first of all as i mentioned a moment ago there is no precedent in international law and there's no precedent in the peace treaties israel has already signed with egypt or jordan for recognizing israel as a jewish state number two everybody talks about what hamas kuspit do but what about what israel has to do the very same day the very same day last friday when president obama delivered his speech on the middle east the new york times ran
a large op ed by the deputy speaker of the israeli knesset who also happens to be a senior member of the look could party mr netanyahu sprog now bear in mind below could is the most moderate element of netanyahu skull aleutian so we're not talking about extremists like out of doors lieberman we're talking about the moderate look could find in the op ed danny danon the senior member of the could he put forward his vision as deputy speaker of the israeli knesset his vision for resolving the conflict he said israel should annex all of the jewish communities as he calls them the illegal jewish settlements in the occupied house to an interest or ease. but all of what he
calls the uninhabited areas of the west bank and he says we will let the palestinians in the main town of the west bank have independence which means israel will annex ninety seven percent of the west bank and the palestinians in the main town that is to say three percent of the west bank they can have independence bear in mind that the vision of the most moderate element of netanyahu skull ition and he had everybody says or tells hamas what it must do. what about what the is real the government must do and norm these question certainly these questions certainly come
at a very interesting time with what we're seeing going on right now what we've seen going on over the last six months with the arab spring israel has found itself through rounded by revolutionaries in the region and there are plenty of concerns i know that you and i have talked about those that israel has but it's interesting too with the role of the u.s. the u.s. has literally found it fell apart between supporting democracy and foreign policy interests there in each country has been in a puff spot and i want to play a story from both of you and then what happened more about it this is our team of color for. most of us is happier than he's been in a long time the political activist used to be a member of fatah but switched to harm us because he feels betrayed by fatah stealings with israel and one who must be considered a terrorist organization by israel and the united states only says the movement she's his goals goals that are now being furthered by a new friend. is sorely need who's happy to gyptian president hosni mubarak has drawn all the arab world is. a connection with the muslim organization he had the
same it is israel israelis should be worried and israelis are the reconciliation deal between but her rivals hamas and fatah have signed recently in cairo in a surprise and could never have happened if mubarak was still in power i think there was a lot of mistrust between the hamas. barak and his regime. not . because of. the deal in his four years of division between hamas and fatah and base appears in for the planned declination of palestinian statehood in september by. hamas wrong. the west bank. and or for free. legal way by the palestinian authority. sooner rather than
later or they will overtake the west bank and this might be a problem not only for the palestinians it will be a problem for all is right this is one of the many checkpoints between israel and the palestinian territories as cairo extends a hand to the palestinians security here is likely to be beefed up in the three months since mubarak was ousted no one's replaced him some believed the americans gave up the old friend to really and truly easy miscalculating that his replacement would be a democratic dynasty interests instead it's the generals who continue to call the shots and they are playing this man. egypt want to. the way it has been on the one hand but on the other hand they want to establish a new relationship with hamas we're not sure about the way that the new egyptian government will act so ironically washington felt it was creating a safer middle east its closest ally israel is suffering
a recent poll found that fifty four percent of egyptians want to see the egyptian israeli peace treaty cancelled a statistic that has his ratings terrified and missing the old wooden more new policy r.t. on the palestinian authority so let's talk about egypt for a little a little while and certainly what we've seen a lot going on there and wondering dan what you think will happen how the elections in egypt will change things if at all. but everyone who cares about the region has to be very concerned a lot of people have been. very optimistic seemingly without cars to me the fact is that the most well organized egyptian group is the nozzle brotherhood who are let's face it both anti-american and anti israel by temperament. they're also anti-semitic and fast it's very disturbing and the most likely scenario unfortunately is they may very well come to power if not right away and in
a couple of years and very democratic donna sides are by no means assured hamas is in fact the palestinian version of the muslim brotherhood let me get you to react to this normally i mean do you agree that the muslim brotherhood is a is anti-american and anti israel and you agree that if they came to power that things could really spark control. well by coincidence i just came back from egypt i was there last week and i have to say i was surprised by the degree of passion and concern by the egyptian people for what's happening in palestine in true to kill or not exclusively about what's happening among the people in gaza and there's no doubt that would ever government comes to power in egypt it's going to seal the pressures from the low to enable the palestinians or
support the right of the palestinians to have a decent life in their own homeland on the other hand all of the egyptian potential candidates for president. who are interviewed so far all of them have said that there is no intention to renounce the one nine hundred seventy nine egypt israeli peace treaty there are quote there is talk about we know renegotiating parts of it but not renouncing the treaty as a whole and i think that prospect is rather dim i think that the egyptians will stand by the treaty as a whole i want to go back to that i would also i would our however i want to make the point because again it seems to me the burden is always shifted in the direction of the palestinians or in this case the egyptians there are radicals
already in power extremists already empower those radicals and extremists they're in power in israel there are people like avigdor lieberman who many israelis call a fascist they're an addict also are in israel i wouldn't say so many people called dr finkelstein many names too that doesn't make it true. i think he failed to mention about the op ed piece. in the new york times says that the deputy speaker of the knesset was talking about what israel might do in response to unilateral action by the palestinian authority which they had announced they were going to take in violation of their signed agreements so in fact the very piece he was talking about was talking about responses to the palestinian authority's provocation furthermore when we talk about hamas and you pointed out correctly that russia does not consider them a terrorist organization but they do consider the groups that do the exact same
things inside russia and are muslim extremists to be terrorist organizations hamas is has murdered thousands of israelis the numbers not in the hundreds it's thousands and they've shot thousands of missiles into peaceful when israel is not in a state of war it a shot missiles into israel proper the any definition of you know moving forward towards peace as dr finkelstein says requires both sides to agree to things but israel simply will not agree either to make him happy or to make the palestinians happy with an agreement that does not provide them with a real security there are so many different aspects of the discussion here that i want to kind of try to fit in as we run out of time but one of them is that whether or not palestine will be recognized by the international community and the united nations is certainly a debate and there's been a pretty outspoken group that has shone out that we see here in washington at every
rally and i want to show a story actually in the arena part i looked at in detroit heart attack and their role in all of this. every rally. every demonstration. every opportunity to voice opposition. orthodox jews joins forces. with the loud choir of palestinian supporters. the collective voice is otherwise known as new tory cartel ultra traditional jews are religiously opposed to the creation and existence of israel. was it is has latched itself into also terrible painful movement of zionism which is the ideology behind the state of israel has hijacked the story. according to rabbi dovid weiss jews were exiled from the land of israel because of their sins to
worshippers believe restoration of the land should only happen with the coming of the messiah and told them we remember jews who have become a sovereign at the moment according to two record israel and zionism are in direct conflict with the torah the campaign for israel to be dismantled and the holy land returned to arabs who originally occupied. territory cortex can best be understood within the confines of east billions for profit which comprises the largest community of orthodox jews in the us and inclusive neighborhood dressed in traditional modest clothing defined by large families of up to twelve kids hear you speak yiddish eat kosher pray three times a day and display no flag of support for israel the jewish children living in this community all attend private schools boys and girls are separated but supporters of
natori part-i say all the students learn from a curriculum that opposes israel and zionist rabbi dovid feldman says activism plays a strong role in the religious life of new toreador to jews and this includes meeting with leaders of muslim countries. because to. do have a serious problem with occupation which we have. an agreement that has raised eyebrows members of the tory court i have spoken several times with iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad who they call a peace loving leader work that they've publicly praised turkish officials and even travel to the country last year visiting injured activists following the israeli raid on the gaza flotilla. very often overseas demonstrations against
israel have turned violent from london and montreal to the middle east a bloody and bruising backlash has transpired critics have classified jews as extremists and israel supporters deem them as traitors even here in new york city. like your. rabbi weiss is familiar with the dangers that surround natori car. ready to go live to see it it's very it's not easy but life devoted to their feet even if it means facing contempt every step of the way. r.t. new york for this world report i want to talk about and norm talk about this group i know that there are some people who say that they're extreme and that they're radical and criticize them for you know having met with ahmadinejad do you think that having met with. makes them extremists.
well first of all i was simply a matter of principle if you want a result of conflict with and then me the asli at some point along the way to meet with them to negotiate i don't think that their record of say in the job is worse than the record of any leader of the state of israel has no record of having. invaded threatened or once the wars against its neighbors. and the current world around record has been pretty good respecting the rights and responsibilities its own rights and responsibilities and those of its neighbors you know i'm going to interrupt here real quick out and just play on something you said then he norm just that in order to resolve a conflict with an enemy you have to meet with that enemy talk about that in terms of this group and in terms of sort of what we've been talking about this whole thirty minutes this group is really
a tiny sliver of the orthodox jewish community and they have theological objections to the establishment of state of israel but putting them on t.v. is a little bit like taken to people who thought the world was going to end this weekend and making them representative of all christians in the united states they really are a very tiny fringe and their error and i do criticize that it meeting with who isn't just an enemy he's someone who has posted not the holocaust that occurred during world war two and said that israel will be wiped off the map and he's building nuclear weapons to do it he treats his people abysmally all the things that have happened in the arab spring have have occurred much with much more deadly force in iran all right unfortunately we're out of time and i wanted to get you in here a lot to discuss of course surrounding this topic and fortunately that's going to do it though daniel pollack co-director of government relations for the dinosaur going to dayton of america and norman finkelstein political scientist and our.
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