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tv   [untitled]    August 23, 2011 4:00pm-4:30pm EDT

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shaken to its core the east coast is hit with a five point nine earthquake sending people scrambling to evacuate buildings even taking nuclear reactors offline or bring you a live report from the streets of washington d.c. . and while the ground trumbull's in the northeastern u.s. libya's power structure is shaking at its core as rebels stormed the gulf his compound and take control of tripoli so could this be the start of a second arab spring. and while libyan rebels are pushing it their way into tripoli western forces are pushing their way into the oil fields so when the stakes are this time will that mean anything goes. plus the human rights and
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wrongs and nato pushes its way into libyan affairs but doesn't really have the best intentions at heart. it's tuesday august twenty third four pm in washington d.c. christine frizz out there watching r.t. . starting off today some excitement here in washington d.c. not to mention new york and along the eastern coast an earthquake seriously the u.s. geological society says it was the largest earthquake in this region since eight hundred ninety seven and there was also a five point nine earthquake. this afternoon it was just before two pm and within a few seconds feeling the rumbling of our desks my colleague lauren lyster and i did what we practiced so many times as kids growing up in southern california we
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docked and covered got under our desks now i think we were more worried watching through the window as some of the construction workers on the scaffolding several floors up some reason to be freaked out but it was a kind of a big one still five point nine and a lot of people here they were panicked confused full of anxiety this was a great majority of people here's first earthquake ever or lister is now outside on the streets of washington d.c. where we all evacuated earlier and lauren it looks like things are back to normal now pretty things are certainly back to normal but just as you mentioned about an hour nap ago the streets were filled with people everyone evacuated because of this earthquake which as you and i experienced both coming from california is not a rarity not so on the east coast though it brought people out of their building evacuated and it triggered live news coverage breaking away from libya for hours i know that's really interesting that you mention that if you looked on the television screens here in our newsroom we have
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a bunch of them up with all the different channels a lot of mainstream media networks people going to the networks broke away from what is going to be a historic day as sturrock story in libya to talk about this earthquake every aspect of it what did you see and what are you hearing i think some of the funniest kid with you know everybody was talking about how this what has been felt all over the east coast from d.c. as far as detroit to toronto is definitely rare you know we don't want to downplay that the last time as you mentioned an earthquake of this size with spelt in virginia which is where the epicenter was with back in eighty eight hundred or so it is very rare at the same time in new york it was felt at about a two point zero which is very low and they can breaking into live live reports they kept. warning people to not dial nine one one if unless it was an absolute emergency pretty you know standard and then you accord c.s.k. you know d.s.a. . case was dropped today the charges were dropped it was dismissed but during his
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news cut the news conference where the. attorney was talking about and making the announcement talking to the press it got interrupted by the earthquake and totally stole the show from and i'm sure he'll be happy to have those cameras pointed in a different direction from him i know that speaking of new york from what i understand j.f.k. was among the airport shut down i know some of the air traffic controllers actually had to evacuate buildings evacuated and also to nuclear power plants i want to know are you hearing anything regarding these nuclear power plants and also what are some of the bigger implications here well you know the thing that's interesting is that this is obviously a rare occurrence but it was a five point nine earthquake and we have seen here that epicenter there is a nuclear power plant in north anna which has been shut down and they're running on generators to cool those rods there what we're hearing is it's the lowest level of emergency and everything is under control but this does bring up the question of
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earthquakes in this area and a nuclear power plant there nearby because i think the bigger picture is that one of the worst nuclear power plants on the federal government's list is just thirty five miles from the epicenter from midtown manhattan just thirty five miles away that indian point it's a plant that the governor has wanted to shut down it's still there still running and remember so this is a small earthquake now and they're rare in new york but if there was to be a large earthquake the area that needed to be evacuated in japan around the fukushima plant was fifty miles at least can you imagine new york trying to evacuate the entire city high and williams acknowledges a disaster nine million people in a tiny island sound crazy thanks so much archie correspondent laura lister on the streets that were much more crowded just a little while ago. well from shaky ground to a shaky governments i want to talk more about libya what's been going on throughout the day today libyan rebels flooded into tripoli they moved closer and closer and
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took over moammar gadhafi compound still no sign at this hour of the libyan dictator but we want to bring you some of the pictures we had seen from what will no doubt be a very historic day from our correspondent on the ground there are in english gone . there is celebration on the grounds of the libyan leaders of the libyan leader khadafi compound. and apparently the libyan the libyan opposition are claiming that they have entered the compound are now celebrating the fact that they have taken over the colonel stronghold however we have to keep in mind that the reports coming from the libyan opposition have been to say the least somewhat confusing over the past couple of days they have claimed to have arrested or apprehended gadhafi son who then made a surprise appearance a obviously showing that he was alive and well and definitely not been captured by the by the rebels they have also been giving these reports as to whether they have
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entered and have captured most of tripoli then about several hours later they go ahead and say that they are actually pulling out of tripoli because they consider it not to be safe there and all of this turmoil is happening and never ending fighting in the mid nato bombing nato continues to bomb the libyan capital and say of course the gadhafi is not their target at the same time they have been aiming at his compound they have been aiming at command and control obviously those goals all of those are places very closely connected to the libyan leader also during the mayhem that's been literally taking over and ruling the day in the libyan capital journalists are finding themselves probably in probably the toughest situation of all they have been essentially barricaded in a hotel in the center of the libyan capital of the do not know what's going on the understand that it's definitely not safe to get out as far as we know according to
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some of their accounts their brewing t.v. in order to make their lives a little bit better because they have no idea what's happening they do report of gunmen showing up at the hotel he also did not know who the gunman are and of course the during this entire time as you have also previously mentioned the whereabouts of colonel gadhafi. they are know there have been rumors that he might have left libya but of course their leader himself showed in the face and obviously explained that he's not going to leave his country and he's going to stay there and that was largely course on an arena collusion going staying with libya and beginning to look a lot like egypt these dramatic pictures of people celebrating in the street talk of a long time dictator following a victory and the start of a new era but when the celebration and jubilation and what happens next argue course on a guy and a teacher can take a look. that the regime is crumbling. the libyan rebels are cheering the. same cheers and tears could be seen in
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egypt in every as the nation ousted their longtime leader hosni mubarak but six months on many egyptians say their home is being crushed by reality. but you know i love the revolution when it happened i welcomed it that looked at the time we call right at the end of the tunnel we see it's not getting better we have nothing to eat just don't tell me about democracy for hungry people just doesn't matter they judges now are not governed by they tros is their leaders instead it's their army that's in control the army that has strong ties with the west and sponsored by washington the military regime the edifice the institutions that were the essence the fundamental essence of the mubarak regime those remain and we can see that people have been abroad to military trial since the end of the popular revolution that ousted mubarak in tripoli the by taking over is the
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national transitional council also chosen by the leading people yet the council is being recognized as the legitimate government of libya by all allies in helping oust gadhafi many lidia's are outraged by the fact that foreign powers are effectively making vital choices for that there's too much wealth and geopolitical strategic value to libya to look at only become reformed and the credit gripes and universal are participating by the citizenry. western powers need to implement a western economic and military agenda and therefore the people will eventually command the political situation in libya and the military situation in libya will indeed be supported and buttressed by western powers western power. throw all their support behind a lead in national transitional council giving them billions of dollars and weapons
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to gain control but the rebels are far from the united what's the libya's going to face after that is a period of prolonged chaos nobody knows the outcome this is as i said in the beginning this is trying to construct this is not democracy against a very revolutions in egypt in libya have developed under different scenarios in egypt it was an on armed uprising of millions in libya it's been an insurgency flooded with weapons by the west and those weapons are still in their arms and they're not going anywhere and many analysts are saying that we could find themselves in a much worse situation than the egyptians because on top of power crisis similar to the money gyptian libyans could be facing a fresh out break of violence at the hands of the armed mom i'm going to shut down reporting from washington our team and there are various comparisons being made with what's happening in libya with what happened in panama back in one thousand nine hundred nine iraq in two thousand and three or as we just saw could this turn into the continuation of what started in tunisia and egypt also help answer some of
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these questions i want to go to a doctor in shapiro he's the professor of political science at yale university in new haven connecticut also the arthur of this book the real world of democratic theory. i delighted to be with you hey dr shapiro i want to think back to iraq the fall of saddam mission accomplished you know but also to the other side of that equation an entire country used to things like plumbing clean water electricity that for months totally went away the same thing to an extent as we just saw in guy and report in egypt where there wasn't necessarily gold at the end of the rainbow i can you see this happening in libya how daunting is this task that lies ahead but i thought your report was very insightful and suggestive but nonetheless the comparison that comes to. fine with me is to none of the countries that you mentioned but rather to afghanistan because first of all we have
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a child believe a civil war going on not and us invasion or a democracy pricing. and and secondly we have no history of democratic politics in the region and i think that it's a sobering thought because i think the the the challenge facing whoever comes to power and libya in creating the rule of law is kind to be much more similar to the challenges that have faced the karzai government can afghanistan and then what's going on in egypt or what has gone on in iraq are you just saying because there is sort of a more tribal mentality in libya as we see in afghanistan not only that we have a six month civil war going on in this country furthermore. we know very little about the agenda of the forces that are coming to power after all stuff i jolly well with was a justice ministry in kind of office government as recently as february of this
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year mom job real was head of the economic development council in the gut guffey regime and ali as we was. was libya's ambassador to india for they've got the regime visas the releases of the national transitional council . they're certainly known have any history as democrats you know they've been associated with the good off the regime for a very long time furthermore i very much agreed with the comment in your report that. this this regime in the making is largely being installed by western collis if we go back to march of this year when the un adopted its security council resolution. nineteen seventy three that was the no fly zones to protect civilians. that didn't by any stretch of the imagination give nato forces the authority to
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facilitate regime change in libya which is what we're now doing and the u.s. is in the lead there having recognized the national transitional council in july of this year so that of course the great danger is either we have a continuing civil war or we have what the libyan people think of as the puppet american regime designed to protect access to the forty one billion dollars of barrels of oil that everybody knows exists and libya i think it's important to point out that this national transitional council is made up of so many different factions of course ideally in a good world they'd all be working together for the same pursuits but these are fighting all rebels these are people who have a lot more weapons and they probably used to have nato of course a long record of pursuing political goals with military means you spoke a little bit about this possibility of a western backed government one of about you know taken
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a step further i mean what's the likelihood that what we see next very much and by you know the western way from economic and military agendas put in place there well that is clearly the intention of the obama administration and of the can of the cameron administration in the united kingdom they want a pro western regime they poured billions of dollars into producing that result. my only observation is we don't know how likely they are it would be successful what kind of legitimacy will this regime have on the ground in libya if it appears to be a british or american puppet regime. that that has this all the features of the karzai regime in afghanistan it's going to have a long term civil war in its hands in the. by no means clear certainly interesting too when we take a look at just how much this has cost the u.s. so much by some reports eight hundred ninety six million dollars just through the
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end of july certainly a lot going on there when you when you watch the mainstream media and hear about these winners and losers it's important also to think about some of that because i want to thank you so much for being here today dr and shapiro sterling professor of political science at yale and also the author of the real world in a crowded theory and i do want to talk about another aspect of the future of what we may see in libya certainly one thing that all eyes will be on is what happens with libyan oil as we know the price of gas around this country and many up others has gone up vastly since the war started so for more on the crude intentions and libya i want to go to our correspondent laura and who brings us this report from the u k. delivered as a promise but seen by many as more of a threat david cameron says nato will stay while libya makes the transition to democracy as allied forces lend support to the rebels to take tripoli to stop the
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war coalition warns libyans not to expect they're getting something for nothing but western powers don't do this without asking for a paper why is it that the head of the he's running off to paris to meet with the french president well of course he's one very very important issue that's why the western powers tony blair and others struck a deal with gadhafi in the first place it will be exactly what they're seeking to continue with. further explore. approaches government makes no secret of the fact that it's motives in supporting the rebels aren't entirely altruistic not the u.k. export it around forty billion dollars of goods and services to north africa and the middle east but it's black gold that's the key libya has the largest oil reserves in africa and western powers look at the region and they talk about
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humanitarianism of democracy they think about oil great martinet says it's impossible not to draw a comparison with iraq he's written a book about the aftermath of the iraq invasion in which he maintains western powers imposed a democracy which played on sectarian divisions that ensured years of tribal struggle but also meant the allies retains control of the oil supply while the u.k. government insists lessons have been learned from iraq and will move into libya even before the fate of tripoli is feel great oil grab is already beginning b.p. has a contentious oil and gas exploration contract in libya which the u.k. government will be anxious for its resume italian oil giant easy and i. is that perth to send back to libya and hate says rosie on the new french state towel and all three of the all three days well as investors hoped they'd soon be able to
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review production in libya but it was price to the libyan people the great fear is that just as they did in iraq created democracy which the specific interests or the west's interests welcome these interests and does nothing for the people of libya nor and its quality. and i think of it a lot of people start to talk about with situation in libya wrapping up or entering a new chapter i think it's important to take a look back to february when we first heard the speech from president obama he announced that libya needed our help the united states has maintained a set of core principles which guide our approach these principles apply to the situation in libya so i said last week we strongly condemn the use of violence in libya the american people extend our deepest condolences to the families and loved ones of all of the killed and injured. the suffering and bloodshed is
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outrageous and it is unacceptable. so i want to go in and we strongly condemn the use of violence in libya that was president obama back in february let's for fast forward to today and talk about some of the goals in this mission and whether or not they were achieved and to help me do that i've got national coordinator for the answer coalition brian back here in studio and richard spencer the executive director at the national policy institute who's in whitefish montana and brian let's talk let's start with you here first so much to talk about when we think about winners and losers but just with intervention and i know president obama said time and time again this was in in the name of human rights were human rights protected as a result of nato intervention you know this is the grossest violation of human rights and we were never the united states or britain or france the colonizers and slavers of africa intervene in africa or the middle east or anywhere they assigned their mission a noble cause to protect freedom to protect democracy to protect civilians in the
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case of resolution one hundred seventy three but this is a longstanding policy of the u.s. government to overthrow the government of libya the country that possesses as you've said before the largest oil reserves in all of africa it has nothing to do with human rights and in fact when you bomb it's tripoli when you drop seven thousand five hundred bombs and missiles on a country a country that did nothing to the american people that's an act of aggression that's a war crime it's a crime against humanity it's the complete opposite of defense of human rights all right i want to go to richard and just get your response to that and what you're thinking about what you're seeing today throughout the day in libya. sure i might not use the same language as your other guests but i do agree with them in many ways when this conflict began a pentagon spokesman famously said that you're not going after gadhafi and the u.n. resolution that was passed actually only to enforce a no fly zone but i think everyone knew from the beginning that this is going to
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become a regime change operation and it was been attempts to put someone on the throne who was a little bit less threatening to the united states interests but i would i would ask anyone. and you can actually find a lot of the particularly among the formally antiwar left who have now come out for obama's bombing campaign do you think that it's awfully chilled more people then. if they would have let him. be cracked down on some of these protesters the answer is of course no the bombing campaign of kill far more civilians is cause far more damage then the might have done if you would have tried to control the protesters i think a couple important points that richard brought up in terms of sort of the change the evolution of people's mindset in terms of you know just before we are involved
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in libya there was a lot of anti-war talk by people on both sides of the aisle in this coming political season about the u.s. involvement in wars all of a sudden we're involved in libya a lot of people frustrated a violation of the war powers act is this another war but richard is right we are hearing from the mainstream media to politicians to people who are now saying this involvement by nato by the u.s. was a victory victory for obama what do you think about what are the messages brian that are sort of getting lost here well the basic message is that. many of basic fundamental sovereignty has been shredded that the great powers those who have the weapons those who have the money those who have decided a long time ago to overthrow this government if they succeed are sending a message not only to libya but to syria to venezuela to cuba to work and any government that seeks to be independent that seeks to control its own resources
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now we have to remember khadafi drew the ire of the west. right in one hundred sixty nine not because of violation of human rights he suspended any big did the wheelus air force base one of the major u.s. air force bases in the middle east a big part of the cold war he visited to british air bases from that day on when libya took control of its own sovereignty and said foreign occupation forces and these military bases have to be closed down that's when they decided then in one hundred seventy that they were going to overthrow him this is been a forty year long campaign it sends a dangerous message to others who want to be independent i don't think the battle is over yet of course i think inside of libya millions of people contrary to the media assertions don't want foreign occupation and in fact have in effect the fate of the government even if they have grievances against the government richard you started one of your recent articles with dingdong the oppressive dictator is that what do you think about this transitional national council that sounds supposed to
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comment to the forefront and lead this grassroots democratic movement is this realistic where you think we see in the coming weeks should he somehow become in rubbles you know and that i think that this grassroots movement for democracy or something it is a kind of hollywood creation i think the rebels are essentially people who have a beef against gadhafi they want power they might win even in an accident and that's what they're about but they're also clearly surrogate the united states and nato as i also point out mighty despite all the you know that the hollywood story a ragtag crew just going to vote for something like that in mediately when they were involved establish a central bank this interview gravel you know i wonder if that was that was one of their first operations so clearly they were acting
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a surrogate for nato their action as a surrogate for the united states that were. regime change and how to kind of bigger picture quick but all that real quickly i think the immediate aftermath of this war is going to be some kind of chaos because these rebels are not just the united little ragtag crew these rebels often hate one another they're actually some reports of the rebel calling down beadle arest against one another against their rival different militia so i think what is going to be in the immediate aftermath something nasty these are certainly are armed rebels who make up a group that may have the one goal in common of taking down saddam city certainly have a lot of different ideas about how rules should happen and i want to talk bigger picture now certainly i've been quiet a little bit in the middle east and north africa this is a lot of people saying the start of the next arab spring arab summer post libya
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after libya in addition to libya what about syria what do you see happening next in regards to other countries reign syria you know as we move across the middle east and well you can use a compass which is whoever the u.s. corporate media and the u.s. government is demonising whoever they decided must go is then in the crosshairs of the next the stabilization so you think some of the mainstream media here in this country is calling the shots here but i think they're echoing the policy of the u.s. government they function as a propaganda arm there's a lot made about the u.s. has a free press but you see a complete uniformity of position once the state department in the white house established a position has a lot of reasons for that but i think what's coming next this is the united states is determined having if they do succeed in overthrowing khadafi and conquering libya bring it back into an american british french fear of influence that they will try to do the same in syria so i think we'll see an expanding level of intervention though i always say it's for humanitarian good it's always for to protect civilians we're going to see more intervention that's why this snowball is
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getting bigger and and bigger. going to lead to additional conflicts or you have afghanistan iraq libya pakistan it's just like dick cheney said analysts were but with the new administration and real quick richard i want to pose this question to you what's the likelihood that this will follow in the footsteps of the countries that ryan just mentioned i think unfortunately there is a great likelihood is that the simple reason that i think the regime once a distraction they want a they want to number of words maybe even a big war in order to take people's minds off what's really happening to the country and that is the internal collapse. the debt crisis the crisis among the middle class the lower class they want to take people's minds away from that eternally stop looking at what's going on in washington look everywhere else i want to thank you guys so much for talking with me today brian bakker national coordinator for the answer coalition and richard spencer executor.


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