tv [untitled] April 15, 2012 11:30pm-12:00am EDT
it's. seven thirty am in moscow these iraqi headlines the first u.n. monitors arrive in syria following saturday's unanimous security council vote for an observer mission they arrive as damascus warns it will retaliate if attacked by armed groups into a new amid reports of fresh confrontations between demonstrators and security forces. a series of attacks showing the afghan capital with the presidential palace western embassies and nato bases the focus of a large scale taliban assault billeted say it's retaliation for recent actions and
killings by u.s. troops in afghanistan. for an activist arrived in israel to hold peaceful demonstrations in support of the palestinian people but need a tough response from israeli police dozens of activists were part of an international campaign dubbed welcome to palestine barred from entering the country nine israeli activists also arrested. cross talk up next stay with us. wealthy british style. markets finance scandal. find out what's really happening to the global economy because a record. can. start.
to. blow in welcome across i'm here a little while many people are turning to facebook's timeline to share all kinds of experiences and moments others are concerned about the security and safety of this new interface but there's the new facebook timeline mean and who benefits from this new feature. to kick. start the. cross-talk facebook's timeline i'm joined by terry carney in london he is the managing director of sales remedy he's also a business mentor and business developer in seattle we go to we need to run my sastry see is the de wayne in and get injured professor of law at the university of washington and in san francisco we have roman ski he is the c.e.o. and co-founder of news three sixty a personal life news that location our focus is crossed out that means you can jump
in anytime you want but for me to start the discussion let's take a look at timeline which facebook has recently introduced and it's caused a great deal of controversy here this is and there's a petrova she's the executive producer of cross talk and this is what they have done here now it's very controversial and some some people have set up to seventy percent of respondents don't like what facebook has done so let's talk about what facebook is doing right and wrong anita if i can go to you first and. in seattle about a week ago i was sitting in starbucks here in moscow and sat down opened up my computer went to facebook and then went to him buy a cup of coffee and by the time i'd come back from buying my coffee i didn't timelines and i wasn't very happy about it i was vaguely aware that it was happening i'm not a big facebook person but i honestly did like that i thought it was quite arrogant on the part of facebook i had no fair warning and i didn't know what was going on and as you know a participant of the facebook experience i thought i was being left out what do you
think about what facebook is doing. well i've written about this and i think it's just again it's intrusive in the sense that people aren't really aware that this is mandatory time lines being rolled out around the world and at some point you're going to be timelines which means that you know normally when you post on your wall you know you see stuff that's very recent but i mean facebook's been around for years now so timeline makes all of your stuff so those old posts years ago from parties you went to you in the drinks that you had with people you may regret it's now on that wall and it's much more easily searchable so it's really the fact that suddenly there's a virtual diary that's on the web and so you know friends and enemies that may still have access to your page can can easily search and you know in some sense dig up dirt on you so the fact that you know the notice wasn't really i think as you say but people expected and it's really difficult to opt out if you want to get rid of stuff you're going to now have to spend a lot of time scrubbing your page and deleting stuff that's from years ago so
facebook is really putting the burden on its users to deal with this and saying kind of take it and if you want to clean it up it's your problem ok terry what about that it's free i mean you know facebook is free i mean if you don't like being on it then leave ok it's your page you do what you want with it ok i'm being counterintuitive here ok i mean why should facebook be made responsible for your content. well to be honest you know my opinion on this is and i'm very focused on a business to business market in social media and i actually really embraced timeline and see it as a great possibility of shine the growth of your time on facebook yes there's privacy issues but you know at the end of the day we're all it can to a bit of a area of privacy been taken from us and so be honest i think of it more privacy taken from me in the bars and restaurants of london i have on earth place but like i could. go to the ice like yeah but to be honest you know my credit card has been
cloned twice in london and that was in dollars up to get no one's ever stolen my identity on facebook perhaps i'm just not these are all off i don't know ok roman if i go to you in san francisco where you're going on this i mean appears you're not going to have a well maybe we'll have a time line in a bar one day but it's an interesting difference roman where you jump in on this. yeah i think it's always as always if you have a consumer product and a change something especially if you're as popular as facebook there's going to be a backlash and there has been significant backlash against timeline but in terms of you know stuff being more visible i think that's actually positive in the sense that this is all the post that you did back in two thousand five when you were in college or something there were still there and it was there were still possible to find them but you were probably not aware of that because you didn't see them on a regular basis and now the jobs are your timeline this is something you want to own because you know this is your public face whereas before the wall this used to be what's happening right now with you where you are and what you're doing now you have this history of your life that you want to make sure that it's you know that it's good publicly what people see is you know beneficial to your image so i think
it's actually it's good they've made it so searchable and so discoverable because now people are going to go back and look at ok what have i published especially since you know before all the privacy before they have to see ruling a lot of the primary settings that people had back in the day were you know they were not aware aware of what was public and what was friend zone so now this is a good way to go back and say ok here's here's my whole life and facebook what i need to call from here what i need to clean up and essentially what this forces people to do is own up to what they're posting and you know make sure that their timeline is something that the people want people to see other than words before people would you know malicious people with malicious intent would actually be able to go and find stuff that you were not aware it's continue with the way it looks that we need i mean it went from kind of trying to go scrapbook ok but you know i just recently got an i phone and i put it instagram on their own why facebook paid a billion dollars for it is a mystery to me but anyway it's a different topic you know and i did
a picture of my little toy carrier and i put it on there but that's not the most important event of my life it happens to be part of my life the way it looked before it was more prioritized what i thought was important now facebook is telling me what's important and what is important is exactly what i just did yeah go ahead . and that's creating new categories too so it's starting to ask you for more personal information about things like major life events like divorces or illnesses things you know medical conditions deaths in your family now those may seem innocuous and again yes the onus is on us to clean up our profile but there are different people and different you know there are teenagers and there are people my age middle aged you know users who are going to have different time and different knowledge of what should and shouldn't be scrubbed i think the concern there is that the end of the day facebook wants us to put more intimate information in these new categories they're creating because they want to sell that data or they want you know other parties to create applications to use that and that's the part that people still don't fully understand which is that when they're you know signing on
or using new kinds of apps with interfaces that that data is now being provided you know through timeline is going to be pulled and used i've written recently about another trend which is a bit alarming which is that employers are asking for people's access to people's words so they can look at their facebook accounts now a timeline makes it a lot easier for them to sort of see a lot of information much more quickly so yeah over time i think users may get used to the fact that they need to scrub they shouldn't provide certain information but it takes time and for facebook to kind of say you've got to take it like this and you got to spend hours cleaning up your profile and by the way as you're doing that and you're providing us more information there may be employers there maybe after developers who are out there you know taking your information and using it in ways you didn't expect in a charity is this really changing the nature of facebook because it seems like it's just accommodating business corporations them want to know information about you to sell you stuff i mean maybe i'm naive but that's not how i that's not how i looked
at facebook up until a few weeks ago ok now i'm a lot more suspicious than you're an expert on the business model go ahead. it is easy you know definitely i think where i sit here and in a conversation i had about facebook and online he's the fact that my focus is very much business but i can rely to the personal aspects that are being raised here and i think if i just got jump back to the personal side of it i think facebook is encouraging us to pour more perhaps in some and interesting detail into it and categorizing that data and actually people are interested in nice issue instinct people are noisy so they don't want to see more detail from a business perspective for me and i think there's a great opportunity to show the growth of u.b.s. knees build awareness and actually confidence you know you are it's you know it's a great way for a consumer to look back at the growth of a business or product or service ok i mean i can't i can't disagree with very good at talking about business i mean but most of those book or people or k.
and ryan i've been in if i'm going to roam around those i mean do you i mean facebook is going to get the reputation of just being a target for people to send you ads right i mean that's not what it was before that's not how it started. well i mean i don't think it is just a target for ads anymore either i mean and just to come back to it to see a little bit i mean we are one of the developer and we use the data that you have your facebook profile to give you a lot of value back for your time investment we look at all the stuff that you like you've posted your friends with and try to use that information basically to filter news in a way that is very narrow in a way that brings you kind of very relevant news feeds that are exactly what your interests and that's just one of the ways you can use this i mean i wrote this sounds like strangely sounds extremely magnanimous to me ok but it sounds like you win and terry want to make a buck here i need to do you want to come in on this here because i mean people don't join facebook just as a business model i'm sorry they don't need to. be. going to me.
this is all about let me just say this is all about context right and it's again customisation where you're getting you know recommendations about newspaper articles that other people are reading that you might like to read might be a good. business model but i think again it's the issue of there's going to be a lot of unexpected ways in which that information which are being sort of encouraged to post is then used and it surprises you again new recent story which is that this is actually a russian application company i free innovations created called girls around me which is pulling publicly available information both from facebook and another company foursquare where you basically post your locations and created an app called girls around me where if someone was in a neighborhood they suddenly got a map showing them where young women are in bars and restaurants in their neighborhood right which is a kind of creepy right it's like well actually that you. guys really must be great and i mean if you look at the web page though look at the web page it says things
like you know looking to hook up or want to one night stand right this is not an innocuous and so again it's one of those things where you know you post and the consequences may be. unintended ok but what we carry about it could i just jump in . to say i don't think we should just focus we. probably we are box not really but areas weight can be drawn to women away every might be there is a lot of positive information to actually resort to a rate seem to think that we do want to say that a positive to enjoy you know let's not look at just the bad side of facebook i don't think it's all bad here ok on that note we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on facebook's timeline stay. if you.
want. your vote for bush. but. always buy one so we're hearing. so the people that are going to be validating this machine can stand there all day long and vote for somebody and it will be right every time but the guy can walk up here and if he hits the right buttons. if you flip the boat that he did. the close up to you has been to the sverdlovsk region. where blacksmithing has developed from a craft into an industry the finality goes far north. where returns to good roads and rail are a battle against the elements where nearly quarter is the only transport for medics
to reach those in need. and where reindeer and fish are treasures for the. locals of the molyneux autonomy area russia close up on r.t. . to kick. start. the. welcome back to moscow i'm curious about your mind you were talking about how facebook's timeline will change social networks. keep the story. ok and if i go back you in seattle with this change in facebook you think it's self-defeating because it's so many people are dissatisfied with it can we see another social networking phenomenon that will be similar to facebook that will but
have the features that facebook used to have because if everyone's going to be so much more careful right now it kind of defeats the purpose of because facebook has a lot of fun and i'm not a big user of it but i liked it but now with all this i have to worry about my security and i should put a picture of me drinking and with my friends but it was all about being with your friends ok i mean is facebook taking a big risk here. i don't think it is and so i think facebook has made lots of changes over the years in terms of its privacy policies and the settings and what information can and can't be seen and what they've seen is that you know they are relying on inertia right that you know there may be outrage but at the end of the day it takes effort for us to actually change what's there so i think they're going to see that yes some people will vote with their feet or opt out but a lot of people are going to stay on so that's why again part of this is and i'm not disagreeing with you with the other folks here so yeah part of this is about all of us educating ourselves but also demanding of the businesses that are taking our information to be very transparent about where it's going and for facebook to
take some responsibility for that too in terms of the privacy issues of third party apps but the other is for you know legislation and regulation is going to be important to hear you know like congress or in other countries parliament should be saying yeah it's not acceptable for employers to have access to that information so there's got to be limits placed i hope there are other business models that come around right linked in is the grown ups version of facebook and some extent for professional networking so different sites for different different kinds of information i think is what you're going to see it's interesting to see we do that i cannot just yeah i was going to say you know we do see we do seeing facebook grow up that's all but still relatively new phenomena go ahead. they are the case of the for environment you know we look at it from our point of view for in a piece of the sort of what we do social media was facebook really is a bit of a pov a bit of a fun time to try and show not for us the responsibility of the user to understand
where they see it and what they actually put into those social networks ok would you come in on that roman because i mean again again you know you just it's facebook growing up it's i mean it's the business world and a personal social networking meeting and we should just get used to it. yeah i think i think the biggest challenge here is you know and there are alternatives to facebook where there's google plus is making a huge push and trying to get the people to come over and instead of using facebook try to use their platform but the challenges are the same it's having users realize what they're sharing it's either public or not public and i think that's the biggest problem that people don't have the understanding and oftentimes the privacy controls are obscure oftentimes it's very hard to understand where where where the photo that you're posting is going to go and who's going to see it and i think that the changes are you from going through it is obvious one is that go ahead terry jeffrey go ahead jump in. jump in here just for you cannot let your opinion on that
obviously billions of told the world dark blue think education plays a big part in nice and lots of people very quick to jump into social networks and get involved with facebook but don't really understand what they're doing when it put information in there and how our own communities and what can be used to you know of. the you know go ahead roland really about education yeah i agree one hundred percent i agree one hundred percent and that's why i think that the regulation in the kind of government involvement should be around educated people because it's impossible to regulate. where it is you have to to if you need to go ahead so anything you have an education has i think again the size of the market here and education is helpful to a point about facebook itself but again it's that third party collection of data where you can expect consumers to anticipate all of the different business models that are developing and we just give you one example which i think is one of the more concerning which is that there's
a company called social intel and it trawls the web it looks at not only your facebook posts but your tweets and all kinds of things that you're doing and it collects that information and it provides it to your employer so this isn't even about it when you apply for a job the company itself looking at your facebook page they go to a third party company that's basically collecting a do. little dusty a about you even when you've deleted information at least in the u.s. they're subject to a kind of credit reporting laws but they keep that information for up to seven years so you may have deleted in one context but it's being used to make decisions about you and whether you should be hired or given credit in a completely different context and it's those kinds of things you can't just educate consumers because again i think government and consumers often don't know what those business models are so i do think that there is a role they are letting the regulators to understand and to try to roaming the local users. go ahead yeah so i think i think users have to understand it first i mean because yeah you can you can regulate this stuff and maybe american companies
won't go that will do this right they won't take publicly available information or they'll comply when you delete information for facebook a lot of leaders from their profiles as well but there's a lot of international companies or don't fall under these laws so i think the user has to understand what he's sharing is going to be public are people going to see it this is just my friends or is this you know all these companies that are trying to collect data about me. and with this i was those stories just going really. ok jerry first in a need to go ahead you know i just i'm here by the side here anita and roman and you know i'm very much agree and we're going to take a lot more business out on the use of it now and looking at the personal side of it and i agree with you know that trawling of information building a character you know witness affect safely and put enough forward people you know can control people's lives and we've all put things on there that we should have done and been drunk in certain places and said certain things in posts and that you know i truly believe it is not the right use of it. and you know there is
a real responsibility issue and i totally agree that you cannot educate such a large audience it's nearly impossible. to go back to because again i'm looking at the whole beginnings of facebook it was for your friends and you say things to your friends that you wouldn't see in other places and now we're learning that you have to be careful on facebook as well again it kind of defeats the purpose of its origins at least. yeah you're right in saying that you know the term friend you know friend. the business community and the wider public sphere so yeah maybe maybe we need a new term right your business associates i don't know so yeah. and. actually i think the issue of what law applies is another way is going to be a big puzzle for every company right if their data is being used anywhere in the world if i'm an american consumer i should have the privacy protections applied to me here but what's interesting is that in the european union actually there is
there's going to be a new right to be forgotten which is part of kind of european privacy right so europeans actually have more rights than americans when it comes to privacy in the private sphere and i don't know how facebook's going to deal with that right to be forgotten ok kerry i mean a couple of a couple of months ago i bought a watch that used to be some profanity and said t.v. ok i work in television it was kind of a joke and it was on its face ok and i put it on there ok so it's funny it was for my friends and all of a sudden i started getting all of these ads for wristwatches and i didn't want those ads if you all keep running on to my page i don't like that or just you just are you get used to it right. i don't know i don't think we should get used to it because you know the sign you know our choir ticket for a swiss airline and that's we sail on follows me you know and i bought the ticket you know go wild on the deal spend my money and i do disagree with i ain't really
what will get in there he's back to traditional interruption of you marketed when really we'd be led to believe that social media is all about creating awareness of whether your business or person and draw in the right type of information people to you and i think he sees when i get really confused been available on what people use with the information late because you know i don't like being followed i don't think any of us know except our people we know ok what do you think about that room and how do we avoid that or it's simply impossible i think i agree that it is a little bit disconcerting to realize that you know that all of your actions are being interpreted in the sense of what is the best ad to have to show you but i think it's this point it's impossible to go back i think you know the that it has in mind also evolved in the past like ten to fifteen years in such a way that i think it would be impossible to to predict this of this point and everybody's doing it i mean even even you have to be on facebook to experience this
just search on google you know a couple times and all the assets you see who are going to slowly start to kind of converge on what you were searching about so i think i think it's kind of now usually that will go away or there was a need to go ahead. yeah but there should be limits again this is what's called behavioral advertising you know you're getting targeted ads that are based on kind of your preferences and what you're doing and when it comes to like wrist watches or you know airplane flights that's one thing but again when you're getting into areas like pharmaceuticals medicine you know i again target recently revealed that they're able to predict based on the beta means you buy whether you're pregnant and start sending you coupons for things well before you disclose that you're pregnant to your loved ones you know so there are ways in which again. so the regulators and governments are starting to look at what are the appropriate limited limits to what they call behavioral advertising because i think there should be again too late to turn back but companies need to be responsible about this think kerry i'd like to
talk about something i could mention something that i need to mention earlier in the program we have to have a new term beyond friend more important than friend i mean it's a totally new word because then it's like that next level and we go back to the old days ok or is that just illusory. always great to say let's go back to the old days of enjoy those and we do that in any part of our life but i think the thing here is you know it was lots of people have so-called frames but they're not real true friends people very easy to associate yourself with people taking friendship when i don't know that person and i think to a certain degree google plus a saudi to look at this and it has circles that you join which are breaks up where the contact between people and i thought i don't think it is time to revisit that who truly are your your call for ains and who are the people that perhaps. subscribe in element of facebook from you want to listen to what you're talking about want to have a little view from the outside but not true close friends where you think oh man
you got ten seconds then the program. yeah i think i think there's definitely something that is you know that i mean that has to be explored i mean there are companies that are doing it like there's a social network that limits your connections to basically a hundred fifty people you have to choose the right the right people to interact with and yeah i think i think that there is going to be a lot of these times in the future of the ok this is all going to end up on our timeline i'm sure many thanks to my guests today in london seattle and in san francisco and thanks to our viewers for watching as here at the phoenix remember a prostitute. if you. want.
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