or stolen you know i actually don't mind the idea of using shame as a punishment i guess it could be a real deterrent to have drunken loser written over the license plate of someone who drinks and drives in fact drugged driving plates have been in place in some states for a while but the problem is that more often than not shame penalties aren't v punishment for a crime but just a bonus one in my need of ohio you can go to jail for three to thirty days and have your license suspended for one to three years for driving which is a brutal punishment in a country where everyone drives to work you see people are already punished for drunk driving and in america when you pay your debt to society i.e. you get out of jail you're supposed to have a clean slate but the bonus license plate suspension and possible punishment plates make this a triple sentence ignoring the fact that the government will be able to practically display words on your person like a brand on cattle is bad enough but multiple punishments for the same crime seems like a bit of a she thing than me but that's just my opinion. hello

and welcome to worlds apart this is our town program and if you watched any of our previous shows you would know that this is not a conventional interview and the problems we are about to presenting today is a good have a chance to explain why the traditional q. and a format is no longer serving to any and public discourse what has been said about the need to promote a better understanding of islam in the last sachin to standing common to share and tolerance exist within muslims themselves well to discuss that i'm now joined by acknowledging a low secretary-general of their organization of islamic culture. mr sandoval

welcome to moscow as far as i understand the concept of the people of islam the can it community of islam essential to qur'an but when you look at what is happening across the middle east any see muslims killing muslims more than followers of any other religion you know it's really difficult to understand what is actually meant by by the and whether there is indeed unity among muslims is there anything more to this concept than just a religious matter for. belonging to the same community this is a feeling that every muslim. experience when you hear the call to prayer you feel that you belong to the same but politically today what we are going through is a special case that this extremists this violent groups there are groups who are using islam. and certain them petitions of wrong it all into

petitions. by misquoting the koran and other religious dogmas for their political agendas this why we see we say that if you have developed social you call them equally well developed society when you have a democratic rule when you have access to political activities programs powers parties or associations but this is really a national and fortunately we don't believe in the ideal world that you just described where you live in the world as it is and if we are talking about the again the community of muslims one of would presume that they're united by some shared values and when you look at different strains of islam if you compare for example. who believe in theory ideology declaring somebody infidel

and as a just a case of a killing and somebody like madonna roomier who believe that you need to embrace people irrespective of their allegiance these people may have read one book they may believe in the same region story but fundamentally they're very different so what's the point of putting them all on did they i'm proud of or under the umbrella of law and though they are not under the umbrella but do you see what is taking place here what you have described is. a good description but let me describe also a panel emission that the image of ira for instance or other radical groups in europe who are fighting their political agenda that happened in custody x. and put sense in either so what is happening here it is not unique to the muslim world i'm not i'm not trying to even argue that islam has some predisposition to violence this is not my argument. i would like to get your opinion on the. whether

or not you think that islam is unified that islam is one and this is the opinion that many muslims hold on what is the difference between saying someone islam as the legion is one the religion that maintain a silver are the same have you been in syberia or have been. recalled the but. just itself is very logical because you have a political different. social manifestation of islam the muslims in job are not practicing the same way the muslims in. practice but the we live in the same god in the same prophet in this holy book their prayer their fasting the privilege is the same but this social and cultural manifestations are extremely important and i would like to give you one example for the country of kyrgyzstan this is a small nation in central asia and they converted to islam around three hundred

years ago they are in the magic people so on three hundred years well we can check history that's what i feel is they told me but. what's more important is that diversion of islamists very liberal very guilty terror and with regards to rights afforded to man and women and then now experiencing a sort of islamic revival there are thousands of mosques being built around the country but the problem is that most of those mosques are sponsored by saudi arabia and saudi arabia in addition to the money for the mosques sons preachers and sons literature and tries to promote its own very radical brand of islam that is totally foreign for the country of kyrgyzstan and what you have is the battle between the indigenous and foreign islam and these two versions of wisdom a very very different. well i think what i was trying to mainly explain is that social manifestation of islam is different from one country to another you

spoke about his stand in the mud people but also if you're next you look next door to his books than where you have more agree and society says has to settle society you'll not find a big difference between the kind of his version of the because back version and in kazakhstan you have also in the mud the people that said to people so central asian understanding is quite different because it has it's all references all through the centuries this what i'm saying to say thing it is now a time i maybe through your going ization to your created a legal framework for islamic countries to be able to protect that version of islam that indigenous traditional islam from. it being pushed out by more radical versions of islam because obviously i don't know whether you would agree with me on all but i think saudi version of islam is not that attractive i mean

it's not about its spiritual value but they have the money and they love that one model to i would love not like to speak about very specific cases but i would like to speak about general features let me tell you that we have or i see in two thousand and five december in. an extraordinary summit we have. agreed the whole muslim or all my agreed through fifty seven heads of states agreed on. on considering eight mess hips which is force when the mess obss and to chivas have another two predominant messages in the whole world eight of them equal so legally speaking we have a unanimity on the equal in this the behavior of certain schools of thought which. might be present in one school of thought cannot be considered as superior

to the us this is was what we do secondly in the organization there is an academy of jurisprudence for me who have fifty seven countries with representing different traditions and schools of thought our members to discuss this issue within your organization you have a very significant income gap wealth gap you have very rich countries you have very poor countries and i think i mean i think this is not unique for oil see it is the same for united nations with it at least the same for the other organizations and i think that's true but since we are talking about islam and the rights of. people to know that all version of islam when you have an extremely rich country and an extremely poor country. that poor country to defend its traditions to defend i think this has nothing to do with the organization this is for bilateral we and the organization we are supporting and advocating through more to the values of

moderation and i think the but did it in your program actually right as it did ten years erase ten year program of action which was adopted in two thousand and five six zero the summit group promotes modernization and moderation. the problem in or say in some of our societies that they lack. modern society they are not the earth well developed motor societies if you have the modern nice society you would have less that because you would hazard less fanaticism and you will have less violence because radicalism francis's and ignorance leads people to misuse to be misused by other people i think it could be a argue that there are certain countries against saudi arabia would be one that of promoting certain brands of islam that ultimately lead to that i can say that

there is a country who split because i don't think that islam is a monopoly of any country all countries they have their own understanding and i wouldn't accept the idea that the kingdom of saudi arabia is propose getting certain understand that and i understand your answer because obviously your going to zation is headquarter them dead there but they call this is my conviction i don't see any policy guidelines of the saudis to propose to promote any understanding i think the i have been experience nine years of second didn't have one day there interfering in the first particular from this point of view this is i don't accept any i think race and islamics longers this is your own ideas about a number of really am there are also some experts who would. at the moment there is a whole battle being waged for the heart and soul of islam and how islam is defined not only within the muslim community but outside those very different and

conflicting interpretations of islam are actually engaged in that battle i'm my question to you is where do you standard that battle because here we just that there are some more egalitarian versions of islam some are more radical but there are there are in a competition of each other to define what is perceived as islam around a wall while we we should really again i would like to clearly say that we have to understand. the relation between the political sphere and the rich is fear as the political sphere interferes and tries to dominate and dictate on the reasons fear we are all in trouble and i don't see this. call for sixteen ism is justified and we had a very very successful experience in two thousand and six when we succeeded in

bringing leaders of sunni and shia sects in iraq to a one table under the umbrella of boise and then this sign this document for any to ventilate let alone have me to finish please two to sign this in october two thousand and six and it worked and that was the beginning of success of reconciliation between sunnis and she's in iraq it worked until recently and they're still the digits leaders of sunni's and religious leaders oh she's in iraq they are good friends and they had no problems the problem is still blood their political leadership is it fair to put all the blame on the political leaders who also consider themselves muslims and. exonerate ideology of religious ideology totally you don't need to persuade me that islam is

a religion of peace but i think one receives people being killed in syria but chants it's difficult to really believe that you know religion has nothing to do bit with the killing that are going on both in syria an iraqi that you mention well i think when you look back to how the fighting in syria started until recently there were different. you see the mosaic the different mosaic of syria part of this morsi diverse movie is with the opposition and fighting against the government. when you have a radical. groups when they come and fight you cannot color of the whole society or the whole fight between the opposition and the government why this only black color of this mall vocal brutal group and

and that was the wrong understanding wrong into partition and misguiding the everybody had discounted all the realities and all you guys are sierra but we will continue this heated conversation right after the break.

choose your language. kelly pickler though if they feel some of. the concerns here can. change the opinions that you think are a couple. quick chance to stories that imply life truths be access to your officers.

welcome back to worlds apart this is a man who dedicated his entire career to preaching tolerance and. by this time he. was already wearing his the hat of the world's second largest international organization the first democratically elected had his a deal. for answers and no freedom to follow up.

pushing too much too much no work to. me you're imposing your point and i miss the point minute times and you're coming back to the simpler. b.b.c. and the. turkish ones this first. one to look at that imposing his or her point well you may dislike it but i try to give you are pushing too much and that could limit debate that you are pushing your point in the public schools i've studied this issue and i've tried to put my heart into that and there are many people who believe some of these. should that but don't put words in my mouth. much but also understand me because i mean freedom of speech presupposes some disagreement and. of course freedom of speech but don't put words on my mom's push

me to accept your point. i have answered your luck with this what's the next question. then i have to know. while i would like to ask you about the syria the conflict in syria the position of your organization. but don't argue with me but them ask me questions and i answer you if you are given a challenge to challenge and to write to prove that you are right i'm wrong this is not within view i don't know who am i am who are you want to know this what you're doing i'm sorry would you come on. interview with mr blank you want until of america's doing this and blah blah and you cannot say that. you cannot say i mean have a public debate in the world i mean this is not but this is not the way to appeal to push public debate and we are we are really making interview we are not making into regulation no it's not supposed to be interesting but i would like to have

a conversation it's a conversation has a limit and has a ticket we should loeb's over let's go and if you don't like the way i interview or we just stop right there mr exxon although just before i began to break you were talking about syria being in the sake of different for legends and different strains of islam and i think it was a very rare example of peaceful coexistence of all those various religions in the world but what we are now seeing in syria is essentially be the crash of that idea off peaceful coexistence do you think it could be recreated and if you have any idea how well first of all let me tell you that i feel very set for what's happening because this society historically speaking was one of the most stable societies of the peaceful coexistence between different races different

cultures and different religion religious affiliations. and what's happening in see you today. doesn't show that this peaceful coexistence fail that it shows that the the conflict there is a conflict of. of political wrangling between people supporting the government and opposition fighting for certain political demands and this demands are legitimate that they want more freedom they want more more and they want have a share in power they want to have a say in this the future of their country the. position of

boise from day one that we are against military intervention we're supportive of the unity to tour the integrity so of realty and independence of city but the problem is of course is that they swore it's being. forth and aided and is now spilling over to many of your organization's members and i think publicly speaking in international diplomacy we have been hearing this calls for political dialogue and reconciliation among various parties in the international community but the problem has of course is that these various parties russia that you mentioned the united states gulf countries they all supported different sides so we cannot really like two and a half years later we can't really move beyond this diplomatic chit chat and the expression of good intentions people are still being killed in syria and i think one of the reasons and please let me know if you disagree with me but i think one

of the reasons is that from the very beginning this conflict was very much misrepresented both. around a wall to around the western world but also in the islamic world because many of the islamic leaders in many of the islamic countries very early in the uprising turned their backs to official damascus to some extent to syrian people as well because if you look at any polls in syria the majority of syrians soon half years later after all those massacres they still support bashar al assad well i don't know how far these polls are. fair and. the freely conducted but certainly the mismatch or over the world about this and we don't want this to turn to be a long war like in somalia we don't want this to be a new cold war between. two powers in the world we don't want be to return

to civilian or this why we support of all international efforts for solving this is the the problem and we think that solving the problem will not be by continuing the fighting. now almost one. hundred thousand people killed you have a government which uses. a little planes aircrafts heavy artillery to show that its own people well the shell rebels rebel positions and who are. really as you see the civilians and then we have the opposition which some of part of the positions who are making brutality you know we can see on both sides we have to see the two coins i think we will be mistaking you for we take sides we have to see the two sides of the coin the brutality of going on. and we have to see that many innocent people the hundreds of thousands of people millions of people displaced

they were not displaced by one party but i think when we talk about the displaced people in syria around one point five million flood across the border to turkey and jordan but four point five million are internally displaced displaced within the country so if you would take that as a crude proxy of that you know political preferences than that tells you something but i guess the bigger question is of course. is rather a not more could have been done on the level of your own organization because you've been asked during the press conference about the suspension of the damascus or rather syrian membership in the organization and that looks like a political position taking a political position in support of the rebels maybe you have not intended it this way but this is how it was perceived but i think the suspension of of

of the. the government of syria or the regime's membership in noisy was taken by a majority of votes in doing the summit. and the overwhelming majority because of the the way the government to dealt with the people who are asking for freedom for democracy for change for reform had these says not been the case i think it would have not to consider that but this is not the issue of the problem is not that the the problem isee is not that their membership is suspended and though i see the problem there that it is a big fighting and this should be a consideration and we should stop the fighting this is where we should all co put it i would like to go to the point of reconciliation but before i go there you mentioned that the the decision was taken by the majority of this good you are you can hear you say i am not our guy think i covered this point you can please move to other point. but i do go beyond this but when you go beyond the question you know

how these otherwise i'm sure there are a couple but they haven't given the question you may have learned over all. the organization of islamic culture ration is the world's second largest international body as members are now engaged in active warfare and the main problem of this war is that all sides would prefer to kill arms rather than discuss their differences in an open not always pleasant dialogue so much for tolerance and free conciliation. mistakes on a loop told us we couldn't air this program but one of the town of press freedom is that the green mountain interview is given before it's reported not off towards otherwise no unpleasant interviews with advice see the light of day that's all we have time for today but please join us again same place same time here on worlds apart.

i'm not used to the tundra to freedom my dear. oh. in second grade i ran away from the boarding school to my friends will be around to the turn. of the tundras just miskito the threat because i don't know how people can live there to get in there no t.v.'s in the tents how can i send my child to boarding school that i won't be able to sleep at night after that. they enter life without

knowledge of how to do basic things they don't get out of school. download the official publication. choose your language stream quality and enjoy your favorite. if you're away from your celebration of the public just doesn't do so now with your mobile device you can watch our t.v. anytime anywhere. pliny colin lives. please tell cutler. goodspeed. her her.

legal. limits and good. luck. trying to make that a little. breaking

news this hour here on r t five carriages of a passenger train have to rail in south russia reportedly leaving eighty people injured. whistleblower on the run and word snowden could be heading to latin america with leaders of three countries they're ready to grant him political asylum this after his latest leaks reveal that brazil and russia have been targeted by the u.s. nuking program. is wrong by deadly clashes between backers and opponents of the ousted leader mohamed morsi as russia's president who is in warns against an escalation into all out civil war. also this week was no sign of a letup in the one time a bay hunger strike now in its six.