tv Sophie Co RT July 19, 2013 9:29am-10:01am EDT
epidermal necrosis which is basically the equivalent of getting third degree burns all over her body and of course after winning the case mutual pharmaceutical company is demanding their millions of dollars back from the woman who they naturally blame for having side effects from the medicine they made themselves remember this is not just a ruling about one drug but a ruling about all generic drugs which are eighty percent of the u.s. market all of them will not have any accountability i cannot wrap my head around the logic of only punishing the creator of a product and granting immunity to anyone that later reproduces said product i mean would any sane person say that if you shoot a person with a colt forty five pistol that is a crime but if you use a copycat made in mexico to blow your neighbors off well that's ok because it's a generic copy no no sane person would allow generic drug producers to have no liability for their product but that's just my opinion.
polling welcome to crossfire for all things considered i'm peter lavelle syria and reversed momentum rebels are now killing one another in alienating the people they claim they're fighting for the assad regime has regained lost ground and is on the offensive in the meantime western powers are showing we lucked to provide arms to the rebels is it now time to consider a process to stop the violence and talk peace. to cross talk the war in syria i'm joined by kelly vlahos in washington she's a journalist and antiwar dot com also in washington and we have a son he's an independent defense consultant and. author of the book the great
powers versus the hedge a month and in london we crossed a couple come already he's a writer and a journalist or right folks cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage you to kill me if i go to you first in washington with a stalemate and with assad's forces gaining ground isn't it time more to take seriously the peace plan that has been proposed by the united states and russia yes i think it is time to consider that but the question is can you get both sides to the table and i don't think that there is any indication right now that either side is ready to get there there seems to be a stalemate on the diplomatic process the the russians and assad and the in the rain ians to a certain extent do not want preconditions on coming to the talks america wants preconditions the west wants preconditions so right there you have the ultimate stalemate in the meantime you have the u.s. saying it's going to start providing arms we know they've already been providing
arms to the rebel groups which provides another. cause to a stalemate at that diplomatic level so yes talks would be fantastic that would avert more and more deaths adding to the ninety thousand plus now but can we get there we don't know yet inside in washington aren't there enough arms already floating around awash in syria now why do they need more arms looking at it from the very few. ideas that usually would be were just clearly described but i think you want to grow grow you can see that. the u.s. . you know there were preconditions but there are. very good here's the problem that you have. in the syrian fighters who would like to seize gone there. and you wrote on the other hand
the shore you are not part of or that option you see syria today is the last stronghold for russia if if goes there is no war but i think it's a whole it has a long letter to the russians and it has a lot less to do with russian foreign policy then interventions in general around the world cup if i go to you and i in london because it isn't a russia specific situation where i russia is the one that proposed the peace process. well one of the things i have to say that syria is also the last bastion of arab secularism what we have to recognize is that though we dislike assad so he has this is not a genocide this is a civil war a lot of people have died as a consequence of two sides fighting each other assad has a substantial constituency within syria that supports him this constituency is made up of shiites it's made of a lot of these it's made of christians and also many secular syrians who have seen
the rebels that conduct and have moved back have pledged renewed allegiance to a stop and we mustn't disregard that fact to set the precondition that assad must go or no talks is to prolong the conflict is more dead bodies on the streets of syria kelli jump in because if this is the i think you're going to go think you're over is ok go ahead i think you're overstating i think you're overstating assad's constituency yes your support of all those people that you mentioned but that support is also shrinking he doesn't have supported ninety percent of the population which is you know sunni arabs so. the bottom line for us is that it's gore and for him to negotiate and still unfortunately russia didn't seem to understand that but unfortunately iran doesn't seem to understand that and of course or the us. i think you know it is being very being very corey i think are always being very smart afraid i think if i may just larry finally because figuring
out where it's. go ahead london jump in i think think i. yes i think i think the problem is not that assad time has run out for assad as you know these prophecies about assad's imminent departure his imminent collapse have been going on for two years has been in power i met a pakistani shere in syria pilgrim who'd been living in syria for sixteen years and he told me if everyone in syria wanted to go he would be gone this is not to say that a substantial number of syrians don't want him to go they do want him to go but there is a constituency in syria that supports a sub the problem is that we don't have the west doesn't have anyone to bring to the negotiating table the syrian opposition is completely fractured who represents the syrian opposition could could give me five names that represent the syrian opposition who can go to the negotiation table and talk to assad no i cannot give you for him it was beside the point in that the the poorest are weak in the middle east great powers that are you know they have lost their influence wherever so
that's the that is one of the dilemmas you know the people the countries who can bring about some sort of meaningful peace or not you know in russia there might be saudi arabia in iraq because the thirty one year old severely depressed or very depressing find syria that's a very depressing thought that saudi arabia would be playing that role can we go right ahead because there are certainly feeling on the jihad just activities in syria absolutely i think this i mean this sounds very trite but it all depends on your point of view. when you you ask the question of whether we should or i think you ask the question that whether we should be still arming the rebels well if you want to continue the the military stalemate yeah i think continuing to support the rebel groups whether those weapons get in the wrong hands or not will continue the
civil war the ongoing conflict and prevent assad from had. thing at all to me at victory this the ultimate detriment is that the people who will suffer the most most. if you are a sides group. on the other side of the russians iranians it would be better to get this to a bargaining table stop arming the rebels so that assad would continue maybe getting the momentum on the battlefield and feel as though he is in control enough to come to the talks if he is in control of those talks and there are no perfect preconditions for him to go. that is you know that would be their the best scenario on that side but the united states wants to see him go so i mean it is a huge mess it's our from your point of view why it should have to be all about just one man that's ridiculous it's got
a lot and you have just one way to look at this piece or perhaps one way to look at this perhaps one way to look at this is not to look at syrians as assad people or the opposition's people as outsiders it is just for a moment look at them all as syrians if the stalemate continues what we call stalemate as of this war is frozen between two sides what happens as more syrians die so to place the emphasis on assad's exist is to prolong this war the fact is that assad is in charge of substantial portion portions of syria he may not control a majority of the territories but many many of the people who were living in the rebel controlled territories have migrated to territories that are controlled by the by the government so rather than dividing syrians as assad's people of the opposition people perhaps we should look at them as syrians and consider that they continue to leave the country as refugees that their lives have been devastated to this that this is a mountain of fire this is a forest fire and what we seem to be doing is trying to down with more petrol.
that's just killing more syrians this isn't for this is this is you know what we're the polite euphemism being very very stupid ok so in washington go ahead. unfortunately the unfortunately the home game is about removing a certain new city. center that runs only for one side that's one side walk through going to have been a sign of the assault what do you think it's on is it worth it. for one man you know from from a personal level of course not for some level is that of course what we're talking about great power games here we're talking about crushing. here we're talking about iran seeking upper hand in he sees that we would do to have influence in the long. status will russia has this is a sort of notion you know this is on the other hand has shrinking strategic advantage the united states is doing is doing everything by playing smart but
making sure that it goes with that which emerges. as it were ordered lisa substantial twitter which means being with a group which is not a terrorist group in terms of. and once started is gone then of course it's going to be a miss i mean we're going to miss no it's going to be a bigger mess for us are there and i said for her as far as i'm concerned are you i see the future it's not if he's injured when he's going well he'll go with angel you know mine is he will go eventually telling jonathan we have to do it and we jump in head to head kelly i think the question here is and i would like to hear this from our other guests is if you did remove assad from the situation what they're still be. today this massive sectarian divide in syria and s. and a partitioned country have we got to the point where even without a side you would have
a civil war i don't know i'd be interested to hear what the others have to say on this because if we do remove assad there are these long standing issues you have the great power game but you also have the sunni shia. can flag ration that is happening all over the middle east right now i don't know if that's going to go away if assad is removed or if he stays in there somebody's got to do do they did not. ok kelly i have to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that show press we'll continue our discussion on syrian state with. a newly released.
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welcome back to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to mind you were discussing the civil war in syria. ok a sign in washington kelli brought up a very good point what would syria look like if assad suddenly left ok how would you imagine it with a civil war come to an end magically you know have something that whatever syria where whenever i saw go it is going to be a mess that is why i see i would like to see that he i would like to see that he can go in right now so before the situation get gets even messier once he's gone which means syria. good to be a very similar place it's egypt but you see somebody some me some leader powers can get together and and. help these insurgents and other elements to come to some sort of a state as well kitty made a good point that the sunni sectarian divide divide is going to be there it has
been there has been there for fourteen hundred years now after iraq's it has intensified after syria is further intensive right but you know just because it has it has the potential an ominous partition of becoming intensified there is no sense in saying ok let's let's put on the war let's let's to the butcher of damascus staying power and let's continue with this and you know kind of a sign you want to see it you want to see the co-chairs you want to see the pictures of the opposition win to i mean they're not nice people i mean eating a march in front of a camera you know they're not there they're not that's why that's why that's what i want i want these great powers to to help bring about some sort of approach you are right now so yeah well i tell you the russian peace plan and i know he's been on the table for a year and it's not getting much traction it's go to london capital jump in what what would i think i think i you know. you know syria is a pluralistic country it's in the fourth century i think the poet mulayam just said
syria one world my country it's a homeland of so many different sects and so many different religions for the last fifty years what has been happening to christians in egypt for instance the copts in egypt would be unthinkable in syria with the beginning of this revolution i met christians who said we never thought of ourselves as christians before the rebels came and told us you are christians you have your homes so eighty thousand people or what were expelled from their own homes and homes these are ancient community as we lived in peace with their neighbors what is today in syria there is no single entity that speaks for even a modest majority of syrians you get rid of the state you get rid of assad what happens is that his constituency that supports him will begin another insurgency it's this is not going to be the end of the civil war but it will be the elevation of the civil war to a new even more violent phase i think assad has got it wrong he seems to be under
the shah what i should mention you are get rid of saddam you go rick i'm telling you the solution you seem to be under the impression before i get to my solution may i just make a point about what you your solution is that you seem to be thinking that you get rid of assad and suddenly the great powers go inside and they macro manage things they put everything together they couldn't do that in afghanistan they couldn't do that in iraq they're not going to have syria can manage. yes well facilitate well it's sort of the no you know what is not is that but that's assuming that it's going to be how exactly do you mean the western government there that's what their son is saying essentially between the lines and that probably isn't going to happen kelly jump in because what we see now is a partition on believe that it's going to be a pro western government he is an inhabitant of cloud cuckoo land it's not going to be approved government i mean every story it's going to be through the syrian government i'm not getting of my own noted with. the hopefully it'll be but that's
not my argument precondition ok because they're in themselves are divided on what constitutes i grew syrian some ok kelly it looks to me that the country could be partitioned ok assad will stay in his part of the country here and the rest of it will be given up to jihad it's not a pretty picture no not a pretty picture i mean what i want to what i'd like to know myself and i don't have a crystal ball is i mean what is the solution to keep our side in power is the solution to bring assad to the table to create some sort of national unity government that incorporates all of these different factions or is the solution just to go back to the way it was which obviously wasn't. it that there was an opposition and an honest to goodness freedom movement that was there there was a kernel of it it happened ok we've got way far away from that but things were not good. aside is it dictator so what do we want what is the
solution i understand that just taking him out and the resume change is going to come with all sorts of repercussions that we might not want to live with just like in iraq i mean that is the most recent play and example but what is what is the alternative i'd like to know ok go in london you want to feel that is a very good question. let's go to london go to it's moved through assad there's a you know syria was a dictatorship a very repressive dictatorship where the government was conscious of every every individual's private lives that dictatorship have to go but when the rebellion began even before it could spread through syria it was expropriated by regional powers with their own interests so the arabia started supplying arms the rebellion began began in march in two thousand and eleven in april there was a massacre of seventy two people by june people who were living under this
repressive regime were already armed were already taking on the mightiest army in the arab world in the middle east after after israel the second in the middle east they were already taking it on this this would have been impossible without the supply of weapons in the supply of weapons came from saudi arabia and saudi arabia had its own reasons to do that qatar amplified the struggle of the rebels whether it's news network turkey. internationalize this conflict the dictatorship what was what was originally a conflict between a dictatorship and an oppressed population evolved into something bigger into a civil war we're looking at it through the lens of oppressed people fighting a dictator but this has turned into something entirely different to apply that all solution to this new problem is to create something we may never be able to manage again and it probably will break up the region for a very very long time a sign you want to jump in and. well you will never go that syria will never never
go back to being what we are not. a sign guy and we are not creating any we are not kuwait for what i have my share of addiction who is this week we'll leave that west . creating anything if anybody's creating anything in syria it's going to be the syrians now killing people don't mention. any any possible solution with our son there's going to zero chance of any solutions without some of these history he doesn't know it and the events would prove prove to me right now the days of outside the guard are syria is going to reemerge or perhaps it's going to be a divided state but it will never be a democracy i don't think in the short run and it is not likely to be to be a pro western state so you know it's just like take a look at what's what's happening in iraq i think i think it's going to be a very similar situation except syria is much more pluralistic than than you are so in that sense is going to be large and miss that's what i would like to see the
conflict and now that's that's how i would like to see them go and let the saudis own a guitar a should stop the army now as he told of blood just on would you agree with that the saudi should stop sending arms now so you should stop jets arms to the jihad is i totally agree with that i can i do a good indoors there but the question is who are you going to arm and do you have any control over who gets the arms he sees like that like the soviet situation in afghanistan so it is it is a mess that's why let me repeat obama explain his card beautifully he's staying on the sidelines and he's saying ok you guys you fight it out and once the a.t.o. you know i'm very acceptable to a lot beautiful scenario would be to talk peace more and not arming more cali. yeah i think and you know i son had brought up obama and the administration i'm sure many of your viewers had seen maybe some of the testimony by our new u.s.
ambassador to the united nations samantha power yesterday who called the security council the u.n. security council a disgrace for not getting more involved in stopping the conflict in syria with the implication that we are not at the security council isn't doing enough to sanction and get rid of assad so you have this conflict going on within the administration on one side you have the military who have for months have been saying that we should not get involved in syria and then you have people within the administration including susan rice and samantha power sue are calling for more intervention we have part of the congress is saying let's arm the rebels some in congress saying let's institute a no fly zones and even ground troops and then you have the other half of congress saying wait a minute if we continue to arm these rebels we don't know where our weapons are
going they're going into the the wrong hands so there is this conflict within the administration which is sending all sorts of mixed signals and we have obama who said that we will start arming the rebels and then two weeks later the congress says whoa whoa we're not ready to do that so i think that the lack of leadership though the lack of direction. that wishy washiness of the united states is indicating that i don't think that we're going to be much of a player in any of this and london a bad player. in london you want to apply that because you know you have saudi arabia and qatar in the united states. but they have very different interests in syria radically different. been pushed into a corner and you made the remark. the republican establishment has from the beginning been trying to portray him as a lily livered president who's been leading us from from the behind that's the phrase he's leaving us from behind so in order to appear tough he said that this is
a guy that had so we're going to hear earlier states is a guy that has a weekly kill that stuff. that's right here you know in all in order to appear tough he made the statement which i think i think he's regretting he said if assad uses chemical weapons that's a red line that immediately created an incentive for people who wanted to induce american intervention and they forged evidence saying assad used chemical weapons which frankly is insulting to the intelligence intelligence of every ordinary citizen because chemical weapons were last used in iraq. and for the chemical weapons to be used saddam hussein had to fly fourteen sorties i think and that killed five thousand people now we're now we're being told that chemical weapons were used with such precision that only twenty five to fifty people were killed by a government that is winning when a government to which two hundred fifty thousand soldiers still pledge allegiance
why why would this gun sorry why would it have to jump in here we've run out of time many thanks today to my guests of washington. and i want to take our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time remember. this is. it's. blind to what is happening in their country. the american dream is disappearing. the poor are left hopeless the streets are full of. fighting
a little more freedom for natalee the russian opposition blogger is released with travel restrictions before his appeal is heard a day after being handcuffed in court. u.s. whistleblower bradley manning faces the very real prospect of a life behind bars after eight judge refuses to drop the charge against aiding the enemy. israel of reals over an imminent financial blockade effectively cutting off settlements built on palestinian land from any sort of european union funding. and as a fact in all my desperation wasn't enough for believe the crowds have poured into the streets over relevation revelations of mass corruption at the top of the ruling party.