tv Breaking the Set RT November 1, 2013 12:29am-1:01am EDT
kennedy it's an incident still surrounded by questions that many americans are trying to answer one of the filmmakers made the best attempt to put the disparate pieces together for a time academy award winning director all over stone now he's commemorating the canby anniversary by rereleasing has epic film j.f.k. and an ultimate director's cut the collector's edition also includes a segment from oliver stone's showtime series the untold history the united states a film adaptation of the joint book authored by stone and historian peter cousin that take a look. if the word go forth from this time and place to friend and foe alike. that the torch has been asked to a new generation of americans. is murder three the torch was passed back to an old generation the generation of johnson nixon ford and reagan leaders who.
systematically destroyed the promise of kennedy's last year as they returned the country to war and repression joins me now to discuss j.f.k. and their five year long project over stone excellent to have you thank you so much all i want to start with you it's clear that you're serious that's j.f.k. apart from other presidents what makes you think he would have been different if he led. he was different in those three years he came into office after thirteen years of national security state build up a monstrous build up we had we had thirty thousand nuclear weapons by nineteen sixty mandated by eisenhower a national security complex that was basically had a first strike capability of the soviet union and could get away with it and that is the basis for which the cuban missile crisis and the berlin berlin crisis of one nine hundred sixty one two brought us to the edge to the brink of war eisenhower's secretary of state dollars had called it brinksmanship going against the soviet
union going to roll back containment but it's a far more aggressive policy in that scene we've had five or six nuclear threats we've made against the chinese and against the soviet you kennedy inherited this office as a young man. and he was suspected by the military leaders the hardliners of the us that he did not have these the wherewithal to really continue the eisenhower policy he had failed to do so in laos to go in to send ground troops he failed in cuba at the bay of pigs to give it to suit the air support that it needed when he failed in the vietnam to really carry through a a much more in gauged process with a b. at the me he said non-combat advisors but not combat people so this was going on that he was fighting and this is known now this is all come out now not when the film came behind the scenes tremendous civil war. and fifty years later right now it is irrefutable evidence came out that implicated the u.s. government or el. the government and his assassination how do you think the
american people would react what you're asking me if it came out now i think we've reached a sort of a because of kennedy's death that we went back in time i think we had a backlash of conservatism ronald reagan and all the presidents i mentioned in those clips that they they brought us to a place for far more to the right than we were when kennedy was alive this is a shame and but this is a bit american military intelligence policy security policy that has built up since world war two look the soviets disappeared in one thousand nine hundred one we kept right on going we got bigger and bigger now we have eavesdropping across the world we have a we have seven hundred thousand foreign bases six thousand domestic use we have. full spectrum dominance air sea land cyber warfare space war we are way ahead of everybody else we have first strike superiority once again so it's a very troubling time but you ask me of important question i didn't answer it
before about if kennedy had lived well we wouldn't be alive if kennedy had not done what he did at the cuban missile crisis with khrushchev we were really at the edge of war they said come they wanted the joint chiefs of staff wanted to go they wanted to invade cuba we didn't even know the situation in cuba how many bombs they had how many soviet troops were ready to fight there they were led by the commander of stalingrad was there it was a serious war we were facing in cuba it would have escalated into a major international conflict we had bombers ready to go off okinawa dropping nuclear weapons on china we had a whole war plan that eisenhower had devised was massive war calling for something like six hundred million casualties we were thinking ahead you have no idea what we faced and that's what kennedy's courage came at that moment when he said no to the hardliners as khrushchev said no to his hardliners and both men disappear within a year well i can't move on without talking about robert mcnamara and joint chiefs of staff under kennedy who. actually presented him with the operation northwoods
document and it was rejected thankfully i mean this is an amazing declassified document actually came out after you kind of reignited a sheet of provoking an attack on cuba that's that's very that's black ops it's shocking and it goes on all the time that's the part create an atmosphere of war stir up conflict raise the fear truman did it with the truman doctrine with greece the united states has done it quite a lot more than you know and that's why we wrote this history peter you can talk about nuclear threats bush had a similar plan to provoke an attack on iraq and he's going to paint the u.s. plane headed nations colors that it shot down and use that as a pretext to invade iraq so this thing goes on all the time still in the bush the father of bush in kuwait way yeah why do you think the losers are a false flags and more historically explored in these provocations kind of the use of these false provocations starting to do for this but we're excited especially to
try to expose this to national security archives putting out great documents about these things so people know some of this but it's at the heart of our story because we're telling the other side of american history the dark side all the interventions the assassinations the dirty tricks the psychological warfare the torture don't forget the arrogance it's behind and once you have those two it's always you're able to drop them on japan and get away with it successfully by calling it a moral victory and saying that it ended world war two then you adopt the attitude that because you want you were right because you're right you're good that's what follows and therefore you create your own moral code oh i love i love the series because i think a recurring theme is the atomic bomb not only the dropping of the bombs but the way that we were able to use that leverage almost just the world feared us. we dropped the use atomic bombs twice but we shows that the united states has used the top of bob's repeatedly in the same sense that a person. holding
a gun to someone's head to rob them uses the gun without pulling the trigger and truman uses that and iran right after world war two we use it over and over again match to twice. korea so was korea have soo i mean this happens over and over again proposed every presidential or develop nuclear because it had nixon eisenhower the madman nixon proposed that he would use nuclear weapons in vietnam he never came about because he was already bombing the hell out of the place most massive bomb but later one who fathered min said that the united states threatened nuclear war thirteen times against. unbelievable and this brings me to reagan's obsession with the star wars fantasy and i think it was almost the most despicable part of the story was seen that there was actually a once in a lifetime chance for nuclear disarmament and he just started under it. because they were regulars at reykjavik reagan clung so fiercely to his fantasy about star
wars gorbachev was proposing that we give up all nuclear weapons and he said that as long as you keep star wars testing in the laboratory rather than do outside testing for ten years we'll sign off on eliminating nuclear weapons and reagan refused to do it shultz and the others were so heartbroken because they saw how close we came but reagan would not let go that gorbachev was furious. and now we know that the situation exists now we were back in that position we were nine hundred sixty we have you know the bush father made a deal with gorbachev to that he would not expand nato eastward nato was originally a defensive organization or put your america into europe and that was a big deal by the way we can't overlook that nato was a huge commitment on our part but then he made a deal that he would not expect that was denied by clinton and by the sun they moved nato. all right on the border of russia as you know we're fighting very hard
to get into georgia and we find it hard ukraine we're trying to make a split off the ukraine we're constantly undermining the south caucasus the muslim population we don't care if we excited the muslim terrorist we really don't and that's when putin knows that so there's a lot of then seen going on in the china side of the equation our alliances of extended out of vietnam australia philippines we have a military presence korea and japan are heavily armed bases are everywhere let's take a look at that map because you guys talk about the iron curtain the reverse one more point is that we drop the bombs where they come from space from planes from submarines we have a.b.s. they are not reagan steel that's another deal that's been developed by the pentagon those are the type of sickness so whatever the idea is if we have first strike we could use it because we know that their capability to return could be limited and can we can we can we endure the retaliation the same theme that existed in one nine hundred sixty. say we have first strike superiority and probably the ability to
pull it off if it was a very important article in foreign affairs magazine which is the bible of the council on foreign relations the establishment magazine in march of two thousand and six by a lever and press said the united states now has a first strike capability against russia that if we attack them with nuclear weapons they would have no a bill that it to retaliate if they had a few planes a few bombs that they could set off against us the missile defense is there to look at those and i want a map that shows kind of that reversal where we've now surrounded and you know we're only starting out. really according to u.s. policymakers has the cold war ever you know never we grabbed everything we could at the end of world war two we held on never turned the back and spending skyrocketed again and after two thousand and one japanese army in japan in the asia was our main bulwark germany in europe was i mean both work we broke up. treaty with the
russians that we made in. that country which terrified the soviets that's why there was so much tension when kennedy came to office. was convinced as were his hardliners that they were be set up for the big first strike with this president who was acting a bit like a cold warrior at the beginning they were worried very worried that's why they put missiles into cuba it was really to to tear the u.s. from thinking that it could completely dominate the. good reason to fear the united . because we had about overwhelming if you talk about the missile gap deployed back to. the beginning his administration to find out what the reality was in the missile gap they found that that there was a missile gap but the united states was far ahead of the soviet union by the time of the cuban missile crisis we had about a ten to one advantage of every capability. right when we get back. thank you.
so we leave the people. of the same motions your. party is it. seems that no one is there with the guests that you deserve answers from. imports came from. the european union is ironically taking fish from some of the poorest nations on earth so this is a very serious and very urgent problem that needs immediate international action. territorial waters they fish they load the fish into the ships and leave. the. illegal fishing just taking the bread out of our mouths.
welcome back i'm speaking with award winning director oliver stone historian to talk about the untold history of the united states you guys i want to start with you peter the un's historic vote two days ago one hundred eighty eight to only two may votes to. basically. criticize the cuban embargo and of course israel and the us are the only two countries to vote to uphold it is this just a cold war grudge what does the us have at stake here and. i don't think the us has anything a stake as a nation there are certain right wing interests in the united states to get the cuban community in miami although the younger generation of cuban americans is going a very very different direction than the older generation with united states is concerned about is the rise of the left wing governments in latin america and those
governments are very friendly toward cuba so there's much more of an effort in the oas and other bodies to isolate the united states now safe the united states doesn't change its policies toward cuba and these countries are just not going to go along with the united states has put it's symptomatic as part of a broader international lessening of u.s. influence we see what's happening in the middle east and i say can really influence these situations are war making we've got this powerful military the most powerful military in the history of humanity and it doesn't work since world war two you look at korea you look at vietnam you look at afghanistan you look at iraq i mean we we can we can invade grenada and we can defeat a couple dozen cuban construction workers and reagan could go on television saying it's morning again in america the united states is back and standing proud but this the military solutions don't work to any of these problems even the libya situation there is falling apart we need some we need to rethink how we approach the world as
much joy and really really joy that there's a dominant partner but it. would really take an act of enormous mental your military and i don't know president can we. on that idea because americans like strong friends with. except that the american public was so overwhelmingly oppose. to an attack on syria that both houses of congress are ready to vote to repudiate that that's amazing so i think that the american people are learning slowly and consistently some areas yes some areas no but there's not only a war weariness there's a sense of being totally fed up as robert gates of all people who is with the cia for so long did a lot of damage was part of an architect in afghanistan and iraq robert gates said recently don't you learn from iraq afghanistan and libya i said if any secretary of
defense recommends the united states any troops again and asia africa latin america they should have his head examined. and i knew that would be a quagmire you know. what peter says is partially true i mean if there were another terror attack on u.s. soil. or did people react over react as they did last time would go crazy again because we have. this military that's what scares me and we're putting in place this architecture that exists whether obama is a good manager of empires is not the issue the issue is what you have the ability to use this technology. you will use it it will be one president will come along will not have the restraint of an obama will be a george bush again and one of course once his policies are inactive they never go away no matter who you start building the atomic bomb is true. he's a little boy out of toboggan according to leslie gross no one was going to stop that bomb from being dropped from the moment we started building that bomb russia
was our main. you know you said in the in the film series that those who control the world technologically it's almost that they will inevitably use it tyrannical do you think that now with the drone wars these mechanize murder weapon whistleblowers and also just the n.s.a. spying on the world is that just exemplify the tyrannical evolution of the u.s. i'm sure what you have a bomb you want to use so we have poor. up the system where we were looking for terrorists right there is what two thousand three thousand i don't know it's a small vial band of people but people would now have the right to look at the entire haystack for the needle we get so the result is it's like hitler when hitler got used a lot of it got a lot of his power from the people because he was wailing about terrorists inside germany always they talk about terrorists that justifies a totalitarian state it's always the first method in george orwell's nine hundred eighty four it's always about terrorists even i mean because the only nut cases still mccarthy terrorists communists planted in our schools and our government so
who is creates this fear in the american people i love when gorbachev left and they were adamant they that we will have to use technology so this is very scary very scary unless we educate people not to be scared to be beyond their fear to accept that uncertainty exists in life but terrorism does happen it did exist in europe for thirty years i was over in europe it was bombs in england the ira france there was cafes blown up in downtown paris for algeria there's all kinds of issues iraq iran italy japan spain terrorism they dealt with it with good police work detective work they found the terrorists you don't have to put out a this mega alert system that we have with a national security agency and what they call the homeland security bureau fifty billion dollars are already really blame them five color coded system there tom ridge finally resigned people because he said they were using it to manipulate the popular fear how do we find a bigamist
a very hard question all other thing that stuck out for me. was the voltaire quote where you use those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities how does that concept play end to the way that one turns being against george bush or a you know made the terrorists to be evil people who were against the freedoms that we have here they hate us because we're the they hate our freedoms which. it's not true there was a blowback situation the terrorists acted because there was a definite desire to hurt the united states for hurting them i mean put five hundred thousand troops in mecca saudi arabia the holy land that's what george bush the father did five hundred thousand troops he sent to saudi arabia on the kuwait attack and you have to go to the kuwait invasion to understand it but it's crazy we suddenly commit we did that in vietnam and we went to an agony to do it remember we had five hundred thousand troops in vietnam we lost we had no business being there we had no business eighty five thousand troops in the middle east in one thousand nine hundred two and the other thing is. at that point
all i was going to say about nine eleven you. talk about the august sixth presidential briefing that said you know strike within the us but since that we've known that it's not just that it's dozens and dozens of warnings from all over the world and also internal cia warnings to the highest echelons of the department i just find it hard to believe that it was pure nepotism i mean we already know that this government has a track record of just completely not caring about human life is there any include in your mind at all that they allowed these attacks to happen. i think that's you know i i you know of course i'm not an expert in that situation and it did accomplish what's important to me to the conclusions of nine eleven made the united states a different country we became far more conservative far more scared and willing to strike out in iraq had nothing to do with the. destroy the people of this country
were basically for that invasion including the liberals hillary clinton voted for the new york times and all the all the supposedly liberals in the mainstream they went for the iraq. some of us did not so you know but there were warning not only is there warning the project for a new american century which was the think tank the people who filled the bush administration almost everybody in that administration the neo. came out of the project for new american century and they issued a report saying that we need to massively rebuild america's defenses but it's going to take us a long time unless there's a new pearl harbor and that's what they see as the pilot after nine eleven so even though they probably were too inept to have been involved in causing it. to blind to stop it even though they had all the warnings in the world that they should have been able to stop it they seized upon it and used it terry vantage to do everything they would if they were in new pearl harbor which is what the way they saw this exact thing just fell right into
a couple months after the document was written the thing that i love about this book in the series is that it completely counters the myth of american exceptionalism this is the concept we've heard obama doubled down recently to other world leaders at the u.n. g.a. how does this notion impact america's standing in the world and why our leaders continuing to reinforce the. putin spoke that he dressed obama down over this. state should not think of itself as being exceptional in that way of being better than other countries if you go to a ball game and you get up there and they sing god bless america you know if there was a god that god would certainly bless everybody not just the americans what kind of crazy notion but this idea is very deeply rooted goes back to john winthrop sermon aboard the arbella in sixteen thirty matches bay so the united states will be a city upon a hill the world's eyes will be upon it woodrow wilson says. now the world knows america is the savior of the world that idea catches on big time in the one nine
hundred eighty s. with ronald reagan the same time he said he supported death squads of central america supported the mujahideen in afghanistan he's talking about american benevolence and altruism and how we're so different but you see it in everybody you see madeleine albright the secretary of state and clinton says if we have to use force it's because we're the united states where the indispensable nation hillary clinton says the same thing obama says the same. i think it's not a set for obama is different obama recently again but over and over again in the beginning was the ministration he said well i believe in american exceptionalism just as the brits believe in british exceptionalism and greeks and greek exceptionalism but now he got attacked they got pilloried by the right wingers led by mike huckabee for saying that now he's out there waving the flag talking about american exceptionalism what does this do to our standing as a notion. you think there's an arrogance implied in the universe you know it's it the problem is that we've never had
a war that came to this homeland we've never experienced it i i have i have i so i have felt a slice of it in vietnam it was a no i got it war destroys both sides the problem with a victor in a war is that he believes he's right and he believes he has the right to use violence because he's doing the right thing so that that's what happened we had we were given a gift in world war two yeah we fought it but the soviet union basically wiped out the german war machine they took the brunt of the cash twenty five million russians died us at three hundred some thousand four hundred thousand casualties nothing comparable so we had this tremendous advantage after world war two we did it and roosevelt saw that if he had lived another three months i think would've kept that alliance we had with the with the with the soviets alive because he did not want to become the british empire he saw the problems of the version he did not believe in colonialism colonialism was to be eradicated years ago and and it was not because
truman and i have to be to roosevelt's position took a pro british empire position right away winston churchill was one of his biggest allies convinced him of the necessity to take on the soviets as well as old hardliners from that point on the us went on this rollercoaster and it just got worse and worse and worse and we have a minute left but you guys point to figures in history like kennedy gorbachev moments in time that were completely squad. and you guys posed the question. when these moments face us and take the right course of history what do you think that answer is i think the answer is if everybody who watches untold history i resort book that's why we wrote this because we want we know that that as i would like to say the curve of the ball can break differently in different situations especially after the world series. we have to be ready we have to learn the lessons of the past learned where we messed up in the past and learned why we made the mistakes of the past and begin to think differently we've got to begin to envision the understand that the world could be very different that political outcomes could be
very different to what we point to henry wallace is the franklin roosevelt the john kennedy's and the other people who saw the world differently george mcgovern had a very different vision of the world the time is now and people are waking up you guys thank you so much for being such an integral part of the awakening must see series untold history united states thank you so much. really. for our show tonight you guys thanks for watching.
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