tv The Big Picture With Thom Hartmann RT November 14, 2013 6:00pm-7:01pm EST
the. hello everyone i'm having martin and this is a break in the set to marks the one year anniversary of operation pillar of defense the siege of the gaza strip by the israeli military the offensive killed the six israelis and left one hundred sixty palestinians dead the majority of which were civilians and like previous israeli military actions against gaza pillar of defense was marred with violations of international law israeli military targeted civilian areas with missiles and airstrikes killing women and children in the process they also shelled public utility buildings severely crippling gaza infrastructure even a journalist tower housing offices for several media agencies including this one r t was deliberately bombed fast forward to today and
a chance of peace in the region is frozen once again as israeli land grabs and harsh rhetoric by bibi netanyahu continue this week also mark the anniversary of the passing of palestinian leader yasser arafat who died in two thousand and four evidence now suggests that the former statesman was deliberately poisoned that's right swiss experts recently concluded that arafat's exuma remains contain traces of polonium a radioactive substance two hundred fifty thousand times more toxic than cyanide so needless to say this is a somber anniversary indeed and while here in america we only hear one side of this conflict in order to learn from history and change our future we must acknowledge these dark truths. the. it was a. very hard to take a. look. at that or how to act with that are right
there. as more people turn to the internet for their primary source of news independent and citizen journalism has begun to flourish and corporate media is suffering as a result just last week c.n.n. announced and bear is seeing ratings for a media conglomerate of its size and its weekly ratings hit near record lows averaging just three hundred eighty five thousand viewers and it's really no
surprise considering that all the network has been covering over the past six weeks is the damn obamacare website it's not just constant coverage of the same name topic that's very telling viewers from the corporate airwaves it's also an issue of mis trust in fact in a gallup poll from june only twenty three percent of americans express confidence in corporate news stations so the business failure so with corporate media going the way of the dinosaurs independent journalism is left to fill its void earlier i talked to one of these journalists ben swann who left his job at a local fox station to start his own independent media outlet i started by asking him what the transition from corporate media to total independence has been like for him. but it's been an interesting transition because clear. really you know we work to break down this left right paradigm you know you and i talk about this all the time but in media today we have these issues of everything be perceived from either from the left or from the right and one of the things that i've come to
believe and i actually believe this before i started on my own is that most people don't go to media to actually be informed they go there to have the belief system they already hold validate it for them as one of the difficult things about you know new media and about trying to really seek the truth is that people come to us to mean you have a point of view and they want you to give them that point of view that they already hold and that we need when you don't you can be difficult at times so that part of it's been kind of interesting but for the most part very excited about what we're working on and just try to develop this idea that there's so much out there that media just isn't talking about absolutely and we're going to great job filling that void ban air latest campaign is called just said advocates of jury nullification awareness and participation why should this issue be front and center well because look there's so many people especially after the last presidential election who walked away saying my boo didn't count for anything you know they voted in the primaries and they said no but me and my primary vote didn't count the r. and c. of course but their rule change and and all the issues that they had in the
primaries people felt deflated after that after the general election people felt deflated and said you know they just don't trust the system but here's the thing the most important vote that americans have is really as a juror you have a vote in granger e. jury trials and you have votes in the as a trial jury and the reality is this where you have the most power as an individual in this country is as an neumar of a jury you're one of twelve votes here's the thing jurors have the ability under law to not only judge the facts of the kits they also have the authority to judge the law itself so when people feel like there are all these bad laws and there are people going to prison for victimless crimes and they just feel like the whole country is a mess the one place you actually have the. to nullify bad laws is by going out and getting on a jury and in so many of us that he will actually run away from jury duty when we hear that there is that you will get that summons to say come and fulfill your
civil duty as a juror we run away from it in fact we should be running to it and saying this is a place where my voice can be heard and i can actually have a say that really impacts on what it's like you also just sat down with congressman ron paul for an interview and i want to play our audience a quick clip. i think elections are distractions you know ninety percent of the american people know absolutely that the difference between our last two presidential republican then has it made all the difference in the world will a lot more people come in the clue doesn't make any difference. one party they talk differently than the other the policies never change and i think what the internet offers us is trying to get the troops out and that's i think that's one of the most common comments made by young people when i talk to him about why i ask him why they're interested they said we are telling us the truth i think they see through this ron paul straightforwardness is what attracted me to him to i mean talk about
how there is no difference between the two parties ben when ron paul ran for president two thousand and eight i were people calling for desk i said to be is running mate why do you think there are more people than willing to compromise on some things in order to build that bipartisan coalition to restore civil liberties and war. i think what we're finding more and more is that people are recognizing exactly what dr paul said there which is that there really is no difference at the very top between these two parties the left right paradigm tells us that they're kind of lot to do this big battle of good and evil against each other but in reality both people i think are waking up to say that's just not true that there are so much alike and exactly what he said they may take different positions but the policies never change government continues to grow the individual civil live. it isn't constitutional liberties continue to be taken away from them and people see this now and i think what we're seeing right now is an awakening of people in that arena to say you know what it's not going to change just by by changing the
person at the top and that's why i be i'm such a big advocate nicolle around the country talking about these issues a big advocate of people working on a local level change your city councils change your county commissions you know pass ordinances within your own particular city get rid of your sheriff you know if you have an unconstitutional sheriff that is the most powerful elected position in any county and the answer directly to the people if you have a sheriff who doesn't stand up for constitutional or civil rights get him out of there another bipartisan issues nine eleven since he started it treat the media you've tackled this which is a lot of journalists simply don't ban why do you choose to cover such a controversial topic and what backlash or did you receive any backlash from broaching the topic well you know there's going to be a backlash. like nine eleven is a tough issue to talk about probably the toughest single issue in this country because people have so many preconceived views and feelings about it and it's such an emotional issue for people we decided to cover it because you know as we were
launching this campaign people asked you know we said we were going to cover issues other media wouldn't and people asked will you cover nine eleven and my response was always if there is something newsworthy i won't cover nine eleven just for the sake of coverage but if there's something newsworthy yes and i believe that this latest september eleventh anniversary there were certain things that were newsworthy a group called rethink nine eleven launched a global campaign they raised hundreds of thousands of dollars placing go boards around the world including in new york city in times square asking people to rethink nine eleven they've had some very legitimate questions about building seven and the way that it came down they have two thousand two thousand professional architects and engineers who now say the way building seven came down could not have happened the way that nist the. there was today's standards and technology says that it came down and they have also been able through all for your request that was granted in two thousand and twelve they've been able to prove the architects and engineers have been able to prove that the nist claims were based
upon untruthful statements about the structure of the building now in my opinion all of those things and i think you would agree are newsworthy items enough selves and so we decided to cover the issue the backlash yeah but the funny thing is most of the backlash we got from it was not from the typical places i thought we'd see it most of it was actually from libertarians it's amazing how simply bringing up questions people wanting to close the circle for them well then you know answer all these questions you're like i don't know i'm just bringing up things that don't make sense to me but i'm glad you're keeping on that issue of course as it's continue to be used as the crux for the empire foreign policy domestic policy i think it's still relevant and newsworthy to talk about a let's talk about another thing that's on the cover media's radar every day of course for the wrong reasons obamacare what are your criticisms of the program. well that my biggest criticism is this that there has to be equality in the system and the rule of law if you have a system that's built upon a rule of law he can't keep creating exemptions and creating exceptions for people
you know we can argue about whether or not obamacare should be the law of the land there are a lot of questions in regards to even the fact that this bill originated in the senate not in the house then the supreme court ruled it was a tax bill in fact there's a lawsuit moving forward now in that particular arena because a number of congressmen who were supporting that saying wait a minute this thing should never become law it was a tax because it didn't originate in the house but all that aside the bigger issue for me is this that with obamacare you have all these exemptions that have taken place in unions who have said we're not to put our support behind it any more we did a story about this have been one dot com and now all of a sudden they're starting to find ways to get exemptions and exceptions to certain unions or website and i can't help but ask those who are upset cover stories about union corruption social welfare programs and food stamps as if they are entitlements do you think this is just a drop in the bucket that when it comes to the insane corporate welfare subsidies and the fact that half of taxpayer dollars are going to fund current and past wars . right doesn't it as you know from my side as well i'm a huge i have
a huge issue with what i believe is a growing fascist state in america i think that we have these incredible issues with huge amounts of money going to corporate welfare you know the issues of wars and the fact that we have this massive war machine around the world that the u.s. taxpayer is being basically forced at gunpoint through our taxation system to pay for wars around the world to pay to kill kids in yemen and kill kids in somalia and innocent people all over the world and so is it a drop in the bucket maybe and we could argue that i think that attacking social programs is kind of perpetuating that false left right paradigm and i think that we can really unite on what you just said which is we can point out what we can all agree on which is that this is not working and try to open that dialogue to find out what will work and push for that keep up the pressure bands while an investigative journalist everyone check it out through the media bends one dot com amazing having on thanks abbi. coming up i'll speak with one woman who is single
handedly taking on the f.c.c. and the public media. i am the president and i think a society that case big corporation trying to convince to whom we can do. better trying to get all that all about money and vasily that our politicians writing the laws and regulations tax breaks. out. there just to pledge. today for crying out that.
you know being a hopeless romantic one of my favorite movies is always been sleepless in seattle but sadly recent events have led me to believe that it might be time for a name change i'm thinking keepin on seattle to see recently residents began to notice odd looking boxes with vertical antennas attached utility poles around the
city shortly after wife by networks named after intersections started being picked up by mobile devices and seattle's the stranger identified the mystery boxes as a massive communications network for seattle law enforcement people really started paying attention so it was discovered that these systems were built by a rube a network's a california based contractor whose clients include both the u.s. defense department and saudi arabian telecommunications companies the mesh network as part of a two point seven million dollars project paid for the by the department of homeland security but according to officers leading it it's not going to be used for surveillance power even though the claim is that it's not used for spine they can't tell us what it is being used for but before you think this bizarre big brother box is coming to your city here's the good news public outrage is actually derailed the program at least for the time being seen mounting pressure from
concerned residents about what these boxes are and what the hell they're doing to finally force city servants to consider being in the loop according to the stranger for now the boxes will be disabled into the city can adopt a policy for their oversight thanks guys so although local and state law enforcement often act like they are above the law whether it be unaccountable murder or the installation of surveillance boxes across a big city turns out they still work for us so remember what we want is transparency and accountability we've got to get out there and demand it ourselves . six years ago a seemingly innocent contest held by a sacramento radio station turned deadly a twenty eight year old woman named jennifer strange died of water intoxication after the radio station encouraged contestants of drink as much water as possible
without going to the bathroom disturbingly the station was well aware of the risks involved with consuming massive amounts of water and claimed the participants had signed their lives away by participating in this absolving the station of any risk now the family of strange was awarded sixteen point five million dollars in a wrongful death lawsuit but what about the station itself one woman is fighting to revoke its broadcasting license through her going to zation media action center so the f.c.c. is not doing its job corralling and those who abuse the public airwaves this is only one of her many battles against the f.c.c. and corporate media conglomerates so here to discuss this case and how people can take back the public airwaves i'm joined now by sue wilson thanks so much for coming on through things abby so let's talk about this case a few weeks ago you just filed a petition to deny the water contest radio stations document an f.c.c. broadcast license why. when we turn on the radio or t.v. i think that we all want to be able to trust that those broadcasters are serving
our interest well media action center has identified a couple of different instances across the united states where these stations are clearly violating the public trust and if we don't start taking away these licenses broadcasters are going going to continue taking these risks. violating political standards they're just going to run us over if we don't stand up and take back what is ours and you believe that corporate has evolved into a propaganda arm for the right wing talk of this evolution why you believe this to be the case well let's take a look at the case that we have pending right now autumn. milwaukee wisconsin we identified to fifty thousand watt radio stations so large that they basically are covering the entire state of wisconsin all right there we found that a clear channel station and a journal communications station are giving millions of dollars of free promotion to the republican candidates from scott walker to paul ryan but they're not letting a single democrat on the air at all and again it goes back to violating the public
trust and their legal responsibility to serve the public interest all the public interests not just the republican interest how do you respond to the argument we hear incessantly about it's not the right wing media it's actually the liberal media has taken over and that's what you to be combating on sirius potus you are right take a look at the radio landscape in this country we're better than ninety percent of all talk radio shows in this country are quote conservative parentheses right wing less than ten percent are liberal and in fact just today premier networks said that randy rhoads is going to be taken off of the air no no no this is a meeting that they've created it is not true and it is time that we start standing up for all of our rights to have our access to the microphones our first amendment rights are being violated abbi we all deserve to get our views over the publicly
owned airwaves i couldn't agree more why you know why talk radio why is this the primary culprit here talk radio really is the easy thing for people to get as they're driving in their cars as they're commuting across the country it is the thing that has really i think driven our entire culture and if we look back at one nine hundred ninety six which is when the whole talk radio landscape changed and fast forward to today i think what we're going to see is that the entire culture has changed now we're not even able to sit at our kitchen counters anymore. and have a discussion rather we're having a shouting match and one side is absolutely convinced that they have the facts because they've been lied to over and over and over again for years it was just the same some earlier to my friend and it's just extraordinary the lack of knowledge that some americans have compared to the hood i mean half of this country still believes that iraq was tied to nine eleven and it's just astounding and so really
it's a tragedy. what's your main concern with the federal communications commission and why don't you think the agency is protecting these public airwaves that we so dearly need to take back oh if there's any degree of frustration with the public trust it really emanates from the f.c.c. the f.c.c. is supposed to be the law enforcement agency here but when i filed the milwaukee wisconsin petitions to deny in a formal complaint about this whole ridiculous issue that by the way in wisconsin they're bragging that they are winning elections because of talk radio i filed this complaint with the f.c.c. and what is the f.c.c. to do is say oh oh we never got a complaint from sue wilson and media action center well i'm a little brighter than that ok i do have proof that they received it and i've been meeting with the f.c.c. this week here in washington d.c. to say what up we expect you to be paying attention to these legal petitions to deny here's my question how can we monitor media content without infringing on
first amendment rights because these people who are owning these stations in parroting their views on the station will say hey that's an infringement on my first amendment rights if you're saying i can't do this well if we look i'm going to go to milwaukee again we're not trying to say that three hundred sixty five days a year we need to bring back the fairness doctrine which dealt with we're going to have controversy the issues covered on both sides are right rather we went for a very very narrow rule at the f.c.c. it is called these apple doctrine and no i'm not making that up ok. zabol doctrine says that if you're going to have supporters of one candidate it on the air you have to allow supporters of the other candidates on the air now granted the attorneys for general communications are arguing that we are interfering with their first amendment rights i am arguing that no it is the opposite if you are going to be. a broadcaster that is serving the entire community if you are not
allowing the candidates on the air if you're not allowing the supporters of those candidates on the air you are violating their first amendment rights i mean in effect they are violating the first amendment rights of more than half of the entire community a lot of us violating the foundation of a democracy where we don't even have this information readily available we have no active participation in this as them at all and it's really a travesty of course you know the state of third party candidates not even being allowed to give up platform as well sue let's talk about solutions here i mean what do you propose we do because i look at the f.c.c. and i just can't help but think there's another arm of this corporatocracy that we're battling right now the term i keep hearing is regulatory capture that the f.c.c. has been captured by the very entities it is supposed to be regulating now i'm going to pin some hope and i'm on the new f.c.c. chair tom wheeler and he has just come in he is talking about broadcasting i am
hopeful that maybe he will realize that the public trust really does need to be served is there any direct radical action that people can take that maybe goes around the f.c.c. oh yes and we do that frequently you know the thing is all broadcasting is local broadcasters are licensed to serve each local community like for instance i come from the sacramento area i was the one who filed the petition to deny the license in the jennifer strange case ok but beyond that we have a group in sacramento the sacramento media group we call knock on radio station. stores we go on television stations stores we tell them this is what we expect from you we give them our wish list we published reports and what they do over time we've been able to move t.v. stations into giving five minutes of daily election coverage during election season beyond then what we did actually called occupy clear channel so sorry we have to wrap up we're at a time so everyone needs to check out your film and your website media action
center get involved everyone take action thank you so much for coming on thank you . for. you so long to go there. despite the incredible influence wielded by the u.s. government the american people remain one of the most uninformed electorates in the industrialized world case in point check out some of these shocking the stats that alternate compiled in two thousand and ten nearly one fifth of americans believe obama is a muslim twenty five percent don't believe in evolution and a shocking how of americans believe that saddam hussein was directly involved in nine eleven this phenomenon is due in large part to the fact that almost everything you see and hear in the mainstream is controlled by only six giant corporate conglomerates viacom time warner disney news corp c.b.s. and general electric these massive corporations have boards of directors who sit on
the boards of other enormous and histories like food telecom energy and weapons so in the world of corporate media there is only one rule and one rule only sell sell sell sell fears sell worry sell propaganda like it's going out of style it's not about providing news folks about keeping those profits increasing year after year but luckily americans are beginning to wake up to the fear mongering and superficial fluff that an overwhelming majority of them no longer trust the corporate media at all for fair reporting which brings me to the first ever march against the mainstream media happening. next saturday nov sixteenth at two pm on this day activists from all over the world from the u.s. to australia are organizing outside the studios of major media headquarters to protest can find out about your local of santa and i am as an dot info or on facebook at march against main stream media or on trigger at how tag and i am as.
this is not about begging the corporate media establishment to listen to the people and provide real news because they won't they won't and this is about calling attention to the issue so that people know not to watch it not to trust it and most importantly to plug it this movement is about pushing alternative voices that can be trusted that have no corporate genda because without an open and honest media there cannot be an informed citizenry to control this country's fate so let's get out there let's get active and let's put the media back where it belongs in the hands of the people. and that's it for show you guys thanks so much for watching join me again tomorrow when i break the set all over again until then have a great night.
but if you will show harmony like the polish face i think you know. a pleasure to have you with us here on t.v. today i'm rollers to show. us how has a new alert animation scripts scare me a little bit. there is breaking news tonight and we are continuing to follow the breaking news. alexander's family cry tears a. great thing that they're. read dark at
a court of war found alive is a story made for a movie is playing out in real life. the video might be shocking but it's simply a ploy used by us police offices. filming with their own camera as they unfold this woman called dalia the husband is just being killed they want to gauge her reactions as they suspect she may have hired a hit man to met a spouse. or the like oh ok i'll try to talk. a little. bit. we're going to the camera. in for. no killing has taken place and the police have made up the story to try and confuse. and
a few hours later she will be charged with attempted murder. case it was the cross-examination that led to the truth and then eased the way to her prosecution. among the police the interrogation process is considered a key element of the investigation where everything might fall into place which explains why in the united states this method of investigation has been pushed to its very limits more than anywhere else in the world how does the interrogation take place is it an exact science can you tell when the suspect is lying and can you trust the confessions. in the united states everything is aimed at making the suspect crime from the
architecture of the interrogation room it's a small room the disorientate suspects and allows for physical proximity. but does it work tiffany pawson son has definite views on this kind of police procedure. after a robust session in the interrogation room she confessed to killing her best friend on the fifteenth of april one thousand nine hundred ninety seven and he received a life sentence the memory is a step into the interrogation room. into a dentist's office and he smelled the dental smell and hear it and you just know it's going to be a very unpleasant situation as kind of like walking into that except there's not going to be any. thing you walk in there and it smells of fear it smells of the way you pick up that lingering energy of people in there before of the
depression of the enzyte he of everything is just like the atmosphere it just clings to it and they said sure in there it's psychological. at the time tiffany was twenty three years old and a prostitute she's familiar with the police and their tactics but this time she's not being picked up for soliciting but for a murder in which all the clues seem to point to her to make a confess the police will use the oldest trick in the book the good cop bad cop routine i remember the one explicitly well. and he was tall approximately six two to six for dark complected overbearing he wore jeans a lot polo shirts and had a very cocky attitude. the other one is kind of blurry my memory of him is blurry i think he played the good cop bad was
the bad cop. introducing saajan matter almost seven feet tall in his socks years of experience and not the kind of cop that's easily fooled. about his tough questioning methods it's his whole. there is a certain amount of. acting we're being. we're doing interviews and especially when you're in that role as far as a good cop bad cop. so for the most part one is consoling caring you know almost. even putting off the other detective to the suspect saying you know he's he's a very mean guy he's a bad guy or whatever the case is trying to get closer with that suspect so
hopefully this is suspect confides and quote unquote good cop. but to phonies tough going for three days how constant lying drives the interrogators to destruction. she makes up stories about her movements shifts the blame onto others and dismisses the evidence that the police did give up. you get defensive and when you get defensive the detectives team to jump on that why are you defensive then do you think only innocent people being attorney you thinking in terms of i say yes i need an attorney when you're saying oh you're guilty so you need an attorney is that what you're saying so it's very it's very difficult the last interview kind of switched where i was very direct i was very accusatory and i even stormed out of the room once again some theater if you will to try to create a better atmosphere for the other detective he was very tall and very over you all
the time overbearing and i can remember trying to like get in my chair you know and be like i'm sick of this my r.d. be this far away from my face and i go. and i just start saying anything else i could say. to me claims she acted in self-defense but it's an admission the clifton finds down. she never told the truth. now that would that is basically the sum of it she never told the truth and even in the end so i've never told the truth. tiffany played down her part in the murder the fact she doesn't break down under the questioning of an experienced policeman shows the limitations of the good cop bad cop method.
so a far less theatrical technique is being adopted that has found favor with many american police. it's an approach left handed doleman fervently supports in july two thousand and six and murder rocks the usually quiet town of dover in new hampshire laura perkins is shot dead by have a star the woman with whom she lives from the start of a study claims it was self-defense off the lure of stab her in the leg left on i'm told and is put in charge of the questioning. the court eather stone a lawyer perkins lived in the downstairs apartment heather had two children laura had basically an adopted child from a previous relationship with some time stay with her there two on the night in question they'd been arguing since three four o'clock in the afternoon until two morning just constant arguing while constantly drinking everybody knew that had
their head shot laura the question was always going to be what are the circumstances was this a case of an amp used a woman protecting herself or was this a case of an angry woman killing a girl for. other stones interrogation begins at six in the morning just a few hours off to the murder left on a dome and takes have a stone to the room set aside for the purpose a cold stock room which meets police standards. so this is the interview room that we spoke to heather stone that morning heather was seated here. our camera was behind this this window right here. today behind bars seven years on with short hair and looking tired she's barely recognizable she was handed. off to find me admitting she had not acted in self-defense. remarkably video of the interrogation was made available something that in most
european countries would be unthinkable. has lied to the police about acting in self-defense. the police patiently let's have the present her version of events. if she was born for a couple reasons one she really had an obligation to provide an explanation as to why her girlfriend is dead on the floor so she has a motivation to tell us something even if it's a lie she has motivation to talk to us she's vulnerable because she's tired she's
vulnerable because she's emotional can really is upset that this happened she's not a stone cold killer by any stretch. i don't really know what i was trying to do what i was lying. pot i mean part of me thought that. they believed me and part of me said no they won't the police believe there are certain facts that don't add up they then turn to a proven tactic of gaining the trust of the suspect softening her up by taking advantage of one of the vices cigarettes. if you. if you hit your book. you will. get it this is.
she was surprised she was surprised that we were going to her smoking because it's a no smoking building in a no smoking facility well whatever you know you're one of them welcome to smoke and here if you're going to talk to us about this part of that just occurred i'm going to let you smoke and they let us smoke in return for information. however tries to evade the questions something that intrigues the police. can. we. couldn't really explain where she was and where heather was and where laura was during this whole violent struggle that apparently had ensued so they were skeptical they're also skeptical because the injuries she had were minor scratches
to a leg not stab wounds or big slashes but just minor cuts to the leg. other claims lauren made these wounds when she stabbed. in fact it's a story suggested by joyce a friend she called just off to the shooting joyce also helps have a change the location of the crime to add weight to her assertion she acted in self defense. put rings on him punched me in the face and then i cut my leg. we thought that would. get me so i wouldn't go to jail.
felt. the police heather to provide more details and she falls into the trap when she tries to act out the scene. i'm sure. i'm not like this. she said here. actually. here. the police want to force heavy into providing the exact details something they know full well is a nightmare for those who are learning things ok sure is that. this . is how we look. to you she. just.
doesn't see is that it's else so emotional that i couldn't even really grasp their questions or even answer them i was trying to but i was lying at first so they knew . this so they were trying to get it out of me and i was. the sole emotional that. even their questions were like spanish to me. saying. this didn't do it. very. very. steering to. see this is the only. issue. the fact that she's tired probably made it easier for us because it was it's hard to keep up a lie it's very easy to tell the truth over and over and over again the tell the
truth is the truth you just tell a story about what happened if it's the truth you have to do is tell the truth over and over if you tell lies you have to work to tell lies you have to work to construct something that didn't happen. but after two hours of questioning the detectives know they're getting nowhere and move on to plan b. they put in the joyce is the friend who suggested the self-defense ploy has confessed to everything. detective watkins and says listen george has already talked to us we already know everything that george has told us well we didn't know that joyce i had talked to joyce she'd like to now while we're talking to heather we're reinterview injuries detective harrington would been in here is now interview enjoys but we don't know what she said we're stuck in here with heather so that's a bit of that's that's quite frankly a lot. of exhausted and betrayed by her own life have finally caves in after three hours. later that year to feel better.
is there that i understand. one of the things i kept saying to her is. she would talk about her children and she was afraid her children she would never see her children again the children will grow up without a mother and my point to her was you know what's going to look better what's going to work out better for you if you come in here and lie to us about this the death of your girlfriend or you tell us the truth. in a lie. i just figured this is it. and just tell the truth.
they went through a lie to get the truth. i went through a lot to tell them the truth i'd told them exactly. i told them. how i. i remembered it. but i wasn't in the right state of mind. so i don't even remember what i told them . the other says she has no regrets about having finally admitted the truth she still has twenty four years of a sentence to serve. it's every investigator's dream to get the suspect to confess after questioning the quest for the truth is a holy grail for every policeman and investigator. and since the one nine hundred thirty s. scientists have tried to create an infallible light detect a machine or polygraph. it detects human reactions through captors
placed on the arms the chest the fingers and under the bus. i don't remember. a yes or no answer to question. were you born in the month of may. did you feel that watching the poster to. know. any abnormal physical reaction can be interpreted as a sign of lying. to find out more about polygraphs which were considered to be a form of truth serum for so many years we seek the opinion of dave bryant a florida based policeman who specializes in they use. one of the people who did research on polygraph was the guy who is better known for creating the comic
books wonder woman his name was marston he was a physician and he wrote comic books on the side and what's interesting if you know anything about wonder woman one of the tools that wonder woman had was called the lasso of truth where she would put a rope around. on the bad guy and that caused him to have to tell the truth while the lasso of truth that he uses is literally this the blood pressure cop that we used today that goes around the subjects arm sort of a misnomer the instrument is a polygraph instrument it's recording physiological data it doesn't detect lies any more than cardiogram detects heart attacks it's up to me to analyze the data that i record with a polygraph instrument to determine if the person is being truthful or deceptive as you see it rise to the line that's an increase in blood pressure ok so on this question here for example this was a controlled question this is a lie the subject answered no which is why there's
a minus sign there and you'll see there's a rise in blood pressure very subtle rise in blood pressure but it's there it's clear to see when i put a line there there's a certainly an amplitude change here and also you'll see that his breathing changed from the normal respiration out here at this point he actually stopped breathing slightly during that question that's a controlled question that we know was a lie. brian defends the tool he uses for his work adding the majority of police departments and even the cia use the polygraph in europe however it's bad because of it's on reliable results. than is a law professor in chicago he's an expert in interrogation techniques and has been able to obtain the freedom of several suspects on death row life sentences often their alleged confessions he's one of the polygraphs fiercest critics. they hope
the person up to this machine they tell them that this machine is infallible and it's objective and it's neutral it doesn't know you this machine doesn't have any stake in whether or not you're in the center guilty. and when they fail that polygraph test or better yet when they're told they fail that polygraph test it brings them down to a place of hopelessness where it's easier to get them to confess and we have numerous cases where police officers lie about polygraph results and get innocent people to confess. knowing the polygraph is not always dependable scientists have been urgently researching brain i and voice patterns instead so far without much success the human spirit seems capable of resisting even the most determined efforts to extract the truth. and to read a private company based in chicago that has set up
a method based largely on human psychology. today it's the largest company in the world dealing with interrogation techniques staffed by former detectives it has trained almost three hundred fifty thousand police officers. the company uses videos to show the one thousand and one ways to make a suspect talk. let me ask you did you force her to have sex with you no absolutely not did you take the money from the man. a man i told you i had nothing to do this thing ok you tell me dr. were. read claims that offer it's training programs police officers will be able to spot lies in almost eighty five percent of cases it's a remarkable claim but despite its apparent success rate the company has turned down all requests to be interviewed it might be because of steve driza and other experts who severely condemn it's there is a simplistic and it's methods as overly coercive. all the studies show that
people can't because section at rates better than a coin flip may be slightly better than fifty percent ok. they're leaving these trainings thinking that they can detect deception that eighty five percent that's just hogwash but it drives the interrogation in a way that makes it much more likely that they're going to obtain false confessions . but reid has taken note of such criticism and has improved its methodology by all ski instructors to be more prudent when it comes to the signals that could be interpreted as lying nevertheless the video still teach the same controversial process of recognizing lies through body language. a deceptive suspect may orient his body away from the interviewer in a front line position the subject posture is the rigid posture suspect the so
preoccupied with his deception that he appears frozen in the chair and even unable to move the purpose of an interrogation unfortunately all too often is not about getting the truth it's about getting a confession so innocence is taken off the table and then over time the interrogator will give the suspect two choices one in which the crime that the suspect committed. portrays a suspect is a monster and another path the crime is accidental and over time after his niles are rejected over and over again the suspect will choose one of those two paths because one of those paths leads to leniency and the other one leads to greater punishment. it's a choice that allows no room for the innocent and one that frank stirling to make
wealthy british style. is no time to. market why not. come to. find out what's really happening to the global economy with mike's concert for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune into kinds a report on our. people are interesting but he has something to say everybody has a story i'm up to a person want to sit next to on an airplane. i'm interested always in the was in the house that's whether it's a ballet dancer a ballplayer president things that are curious to me is it just things i think about. them or not of.
i think. everybody. did you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioning the constitution. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy shrek i'll fess. up i'm. going to go on i'm tom on and on this show will reveal the picture of what's actually going how i'm gonna go beyond identifying the truth rational debate real discussion critical issues facing america by go ready to join the movement then welcome the big picture. i am sam saxon for tom hartman in washington d.c. here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture.