think just like. everybody. did you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution which says that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy which recall for us. will. never go on. and on this show we would be a little picture of what's actually going on we go beyond identifying the problem to try to rational debate a real discussion critical issues facing america go ready to join the movement then welcome in the big picture.

welcome to divides conversations of great minds with dr alan lipman and sorry sold after ellen levin is a clinical psychologist in private practice in new york an international speaker and has been involved with the spectrum of attentional disorders for over twenty five years in private practice dr lynn focuses on the high i.q. adult and addles adolescent a.d.h. d. populations she specializes in identifying and treating complex presentations we may be misinterpreted or overlooked she's also the co-author of the book understanding girls with a d h d sorry solon is a psycho psycho therapist who has worked with individuals couples in groups with a.d.h. the adults for over twenty five years she's also prominent in the national keynote speaker and trains and consults with other mental health professionals in assessing and counseling adults with the series also the author of the books journeys through adulthood discovery a new sense of identity and meaning with attention to deficit disorder and the book

women with attention deficit disorder which is also now available in spanish and all digital formats development surgery sold. i've known you both for a while. just revealed to our audience and as such both of you have absolutely fascinating personal stories that brought you to this. to the extent that you might want to talk about it. or what you're doing what you're about to. start with well yeah i was searching for what was different about maybe my whole life basically and right around the time i met you i was working on a counseling agency for a special program for adults with learning disabilities and i started saying a lot of people and it was right around the early ninety's when i started to understand that maybe there was something with attention also why i wrote my book and what was so interesting for me personally and professionally was that the women all told the same story that no matter if they had the same organizational

retention problems as the man or women had said shame and about not being able to meet those cultural gender role expectations and that's really what propelled me to write that book and to focus on that for the last twenty five years and in the process i did get diagnosed and did get helped through medication to stay awake you know we talk about this stereotype you know little boy hyperactive acting out but millions of women are not understood and not helped because they can barely even stay awake. the girls are massively. they're not bothered by their people they're not bothering anybody off in that college or after college when they will no longer be able to keep up with the demands even if they're really smart so they don't have a while to later and this is your practice this is what you do what drew your attention interest. my specialty is girls and women i was originally looking

into situations of the. it would be explain my son's behavior who had a very high i.q. but also had the trouble sitting still started attending conferences. argued with the present there who said that girls were a.d.d. wanna be because i had him because he has seen lots of girls that do not present like voice but the diagnostic criteria are based on young boys young hyperactive boys so our criteria ended up being about hyperactivity and so girls who are hyperactive and more inattentive were being missed and now i think that what they're finding is that for adults it's one to one male to female so it's not yet one to one with girls or ideally it will be when we get even better at diagnosing and we've come

a long way from. the seventy's and the hyperkinetic syndrome and find gold and soul you know. number sixty nine or something so let's let's actually start with some definitions probably should start there to begin with what is. ok. well we know definitively now that it's a neuro biological disorder it's a difference in brain wiring i don't call it the disorder i think it's a horrible name that it has because it's just a difference and it's people self regulate in a different way they respond to stimuli in the environment in a different way and it's on a continuum and everyone has some of those symptoms and when it gets in your way then it's a problem and then maybe you seek help and that gets in your way part of saree

that's a big part of it is not cause you to go through the diagnostic criteria in front of just any random group of people i mean if you go to a group. springsteen concert just let me tell you for three minutes most of the people are going to raise their hand and say that's me but they're not necessarily having problems and that's why it's so easily dismissed because everybody this is their key and everybody understands this but it's the degree it's a very. this and it's getting in the way obviously you've always talked about finding the right. fit is what you want what you want to do and i tell everybody whether you take medication or not the point is to make it easier for you to be who you are to embrace who you are to accept your differences so i think that's a false. blessing medication not if you're suffering internally a lot of adults just are suffering it's difficult to live with for some people with this severe pulls and pushes and not being able to manifest who they are ten.

underachievement so treatment is really not about getting over you are conforming it's about understanding we all have different and how can we help you find a life that works for you that's how we view it now and this medication medication thing you know. back in one thousand nine hundred seventy nine. were active and he asserted that it was just food. and you know the reason i running a community for abused kids at that time and we had thirty eight kids we put about to find one of them responded and that kid had really bad psoriasis and find gold was a dermatologist you know so he was dealing with a population that was dermatological a challenge yeah you know some kids actually you know but it's such a minority and some kids respond really well the medication of the some kids and same with adults what's what's the current state of think you know curious from both of you what's the current state of thinking. the evolution of medications

we've gone from just the old you know i mean. arguably it was benzedrine in the fifties so you know where we are now. eleanor mr they haven't gone much further they've refined those things but there's basically. ritalin based drugs and there is dexedrine based drugs you know which is. sort of related to that. in their stimulants and i would be lying if i didn't say that the research does say that it works and that any intervention is more successful if you're also using medication but that being said. at least half the people in my practice choose not to use medication there are so many other interventions the more psycho education that you have the more that you understand how your brain works and the neurotransmitters that you're trying to balance there are so many ways that

stimulation can be used to actually not just treat it but actually where you will thrive and is so i lean towards going with the strengths and weaknesses profile and there's a lot of ways to find a good fit between someone and their universe without medication these stimulant drugs primarily kick up. a transmitter associated with everything from cocaine to caffeine reference of that spectrum stimulant drugs there are other things that will kick up to be unhappy kicks up drop of being excited being. frightened i mean there's drinking caffeine. this is the situational stuff that i mean this individual for some people they can't get into that kind of positive cycle that is our hope for those people until they get that kick start and for some people they just need that along with the support and the guidance to find

a life that works in that does kick in there and keep them more stimulated and get the support they need so that they can thrive. think. about a four glasses. but i mean it's a pretty difficult situation to live with internally working with the general drugs you've got your glasses on you can see exactly but then you can see where you want to go and you can see what you need them for some people they're going to their brain is just too sleepy or. something just like you know i feel like antidepressants really some people are going to need to be on that for a long time some people you know don't need it for ever but it's just one part of the puzzle but it's often necessary but not sufficient obviously situationally do you deal differently. with the in your practice the people you work with siri do you deal differently with people who present as the hyperactive people who present as the more passive form.

basically everybody has been hurt most people i deal with have map and diagnose to adulthood they bring a lot of wounds with them that they're still dealing with and my goal is to help them heal those wounds to understand what those wounds are when they're reactivated now and what's really going on with them before they can even start to attempt to construct a life that works often just have to figure out who is in a great sort of just kind of parts of themselves so it takes a while before some of that shame and avoid them withdraw all those secondary effects is really what we see a lot of if you're just dealing with a. band you're doing pretty good it's usually about adults by this time i've accumulated so many confused sense of who they are you know what they're good at. second grade teacher going i mean you know it's like all of this stuff well and what what do you see is the most useful therapeutic. but i think that

being a linear thinker is probably overrated and. you know so i think that the idea of these medications helping you be more normal is not necessarily the goal i mean i don't have to tell you that there's you know we need hunters in the world this images we need farmers in the world so. it's more about reframing the way you see yourself i mean people see themselves with a lot of shame and say make me normal and that's not at all the goal the goal is like this is the way you do it and this is not the way other people do it but is that ok is that acceptable it is acceptable the only thing that really works is what works for you. and the more that people can embrace that and sort of just celebrate that their brains are different the more you know they're willing to you know just go with the idea that non-linear thinker you know come up with like the

coolest ideas because you know they put together associations that linear thinkers don't always see as been you know a lot of amazing people and over history who think in a non-linear way and they move the world ahead to. that and that you know because that reminds me people coming to see me nobody says i just want to be more of who i am i also i want to get over who i am i want to get over this case of terminal uniqueness they want and that's why i talk about. minority mental health issue that was my original actual focus was minority mental health across cultural counseling and i think i've been successful in this because that's how i've always viewed you when you go to a conference you see that i want to drill into. more of the nice conversations of great minds with doctors and serious soul.

which pretty to. say which story. you'd like. sort of working for the people most issues in the mainstream media were for each other bribery must be sure to fight. the good rather. it was a. very hard to take. once again to come on here as a play by patton that had sex with her thick hair cut if it.

if it was what if. if . the.

there are about two conversations of the great minds i'm speaking with dr alan lipman and cerise old and dr lipman a clinical psychologist who's been involved in the spectrum of potential disorders for over twenty five years service solem psycho therapist who has worked with individuals couples in groups of eighty eight street for over twenty five years let's go back to it first of all sir you were talking about used a phrase during the break that i had heard you know one time actually i'm not sure but i have never heard of neural bigotry made that nerve bigotry of neural profiling because children but it was exciting because i did the keynote this summer in detroit where i'm from and five miles from where i grew up in downtown detroit happened to be the same week as the trayvon martin verdict and so i was it came full circle because that was my original study of focus was was minority mental health then i realized that so many of my clients were painted with such a broad brush and just judged on the surface surface disorganization and not really

see what's underneath them and same thing obviously with any kind of profiling that so there's bigotry but as a therapist what i'm interested in is what happens as a result whether it's women or men with difference is what i see happening is that a minority we have learned from the culture in general what's good what's valued in people they d.h.b. or other minorities realize that's not me and so they idealize those things we internalize those things. they compare themselves to that because i needed to account for the terrible oppression that i see in my clients even if their families weren't telling them they were bad somewhere along the way the culture is telling them what is good and what is valuable and that's not just like you know you see documentaries about little you know african-american girls who are picking out white dolls as being good and that's what i see of a.d.h. women neurological very very. cultural diversity gender sexual preferences i see a veneer of diversity is the next big fight for acceptance for all of us

differences now you know there's a big movement in the asperger's community about that too. and there of you wrote this book called diagnosing jefferson it's amazing because he goes through a brilliant jefferson biographer and i read that book and i'm convinced jefferson street which is older and out here but. diversity started in that in the artistic community and now armstrong wrote about neuro diversity which talks about you know bracing all differences even though we still help people who are suffering we still have. demonized well it's arguably it's this it's kind of a variation. to say it's a variation on affirmative action it's. like yeah it's like saying you know ok you've been just long enough you know. we're going to acknowledge your own pride right ok that's good stuff well and you work with high i.q.

kids i was my life was saved by spock i was six or seven years old when sputnik one we all had this satellite going over our heads going. and eisenhower went nuts and said ok we're going to fund programs for gifted kids and i got pulled out of the public school actually in the school pulled out of my classroom along with another friend of mine and a couple of other kids and put in this fast track for grades. two three four five and six and by the time i was done with your screen i was you know at two languages i was doing math the calculus i was reading that i don't want so i can break it. down to be more started and all the funding for that one away and the time i was in junior high school i was going down in flames and my brothers were getting school who were just as smart as i was and were being given i mean it seems like there was a time in this country when we actually fund special education for gifted kids that

pretty much doesn't happen anymore and and it seems to me that there might even be an element of a lot of kids who are being diagnosed as a.d.h. d. wants are just. i mean. i just i just threw a whole bunch of stuff at you want to. ok so. there's so much overlap between and giftedness this so many of the behaviors are very similar so you know what the difference is is how annoying do your parents or the teachers find you i mean it's essentially the difference in terms of who gets diagnosed and who does have a good medical you did get well and whether it's pathology rise to whether it's celebrated. so the point is that. there's a developmental delay in. some behaviors that are required for more linear thinking and for doing schoolwork are acquired later so that's

a really gifted kid with a.d.d. is intellectually maybe three years beyond their peers and socially and emotionally about three years behind their peers so that's a huge discrepancy that really no one can make sense of the child can't make sense of it that stressful for them they don't fit in anywhere they like to talk to adults they play with younger kids. you know teachers don't. stand if you're so smart why did you leave your backpack in the middle of the room. and it's a great frustration to everybody they think that if people are gifted they're like oh good smart we don't have to deal with that but that needs addressing just this much as you know any other kinds of symptoms that they need to be simulated and so a lot of what you're seeing i agree with you totally is a mind that has not been. roused intellectually and when it is they can focus as well as the next person. so it's really i mean i think that is

something that we're really we're probably you know there were over diagnosing and you know in some cases probably under diagnosing but. that is really the group that won't ask for help won't be identified because they're not necessarily disruptive but they're bored and they are frustrated and they withdraw. or you know they get in trouble just because they're bored story of my child. and you know and i see a lot of this in adults i work in a university town so i have a lot of really really smart or talented i don't know. talented people are very creative people who could do great things but also know have this huge split they have all these talents but they have either a learning disability or they have problems the tension and the terrible demoralization and frustration of not being able to manifest and not be able to describe tell people all the great thoughts you have it's

a really huge split and that is a different condition than just having one or the other having both of those is something you can't even find a peer group you hide your gifts when you're with people who have the same challenges and when you're with people who have strengths you know they don't understand why you have these challenges are you really caught in a narrow box so let's talk about the ecology. if you were. to. use business as a mall i mean nobody in their right mind would suggest as the new c.e.o. of pepsi cola for example i'm going to take the most promising division of my company number to fund it one person and i'm going to take the least promising division of my company and throw eighty percent of my resources and you know seems like that's what we're doing with education and that's not to say that you know kids who are struggling at the least potentially productive many of them most of them have a tremendous potential that needs to be brought out but that those it seems to me

like in america we're leaving an enormous amount of potential on the floor and they don't do that and they don't do that or what what are what are we missing how do we fix this at the educational level how do we fix this workplace how do we fix this relationship so we fix this there of the best is what we got six minutes or that maybe a few times it is that it but it's it's to me and for conformity which is so unfortunate because that takes all the outliers all the kids that are not directly under the bell curve and saying you are different but in a bad way and you know there's been just a move towards greater and greater demands for conformity and girls and women are i think even more sensitive to that then males so there's a lot of shame and withdrawal i'm different and i shouldn't be involved but when they get to the men especially when they get to the point of being out in the world

if they've survived school in some way they then there they can be the risk takers they're you know and they can come up with ideas that are outside of the box and they're not afraid so there's a there's some really great options for moving ahead with life if you get through the narrow constraints of our educational system the star and there are and there are some i mean i mean. you know you're running across afghanistan on the camels are. you know there are some women who step out and say yes i'll do that but society tells women don't do that. whether you know you i mean you are an amazing role model if we can talk about you personally you know you said ok that was that is he having people that you can identify with who are not just those normal kind of role models leaves a lot of us out so having you know models like what happened to you finding

a good fit you were already successful in what you were doing but you were not valued as much as you needed to be you had had not been able to express all that you have inside of you and brilliancy you have and you found an amazing venue for yourself so you are a wonderful role model for people with these kind of differences that you've gotten support to be able to do that. and actually i would say if i had married. that's when i was the women we don't have wives and. women don't have as much support so that we can just start you know and let our gifts but you know so. so you want to so should somebody i mean my experience as somebody who would self identify and self diagnosis. and i have since i've known about it. is that by marrying somebody who is very solid and stable and pays attention to details it has kept me anchored to the world one. how does a woman do that particularly when

a lot of women never even let anybody know that there are. we have just one. the idea is that women unfortunately have to do the job of organizing themselves and everyone else i do suggest to all of them that they find a wife themselves because you don't have to be good at everything but women feel like they have to be that wife yet. absolutely high reason why you have to be good at everything i mean so you know. organized and ten think in a more linear way so i mean that isn't a deficit you think in a different way and the complimentary nature of the relationship is fabulous so i think that it's just finding someone who can you know keep you tethered and the other person can feel free to use their gifts in a different direction even through the stuff like the bookkeeping and the housekeeping primary somebody who respects you to not have a polarizing or someone as

a parent yeah thank you so much and is now it's great. to see this and other conversations and great minds go to our website conversations of great minds dot com. i would rather ask questions to people who positions of power instead of speaking on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on our t.v. question. i

know c.n.n. m s n b c news have taken some slightly but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be accurate. that was funny but it's closer to the truth and might think. it's because one call attention i mean. if you work side by side the joke is actually on you. i don't or teen years we have a different approach. because the news of the world just is not this funny i'm not laughing dammit i'm not. going to stick to the jokes will handle them.

tonight's conversations with great minds i'm joined by constitutional trial attorney daniel daniel is one of the most influential public interest lawyers in the country worked on a number of cases including the pentagon papers case and the current karen silkwood case that have changed the course of american history in one nine hundred eighty founded the christic institute where he served as general counsel and chief trial attorney daniel has also served as chief trial attorney for the american institute and the chief trial counsel for the a.c.l.u. rocky mountain states chapter in his new book the people's advocate the life and

legal history of america's most fearless public interest lawyer is a must read for anyone who wants to know the inside story of some of the most important trials of the past half century and welcome to the show thank you thanks so much for being with us i'm curious what what got you interested in the law in the first place how did it start with you did what drew you into this and then what got you into this kind of law. actually originally back in one hundred sixty three when i graduated from high school i was going to go to the air force academy and it turns out that i was number one in the competition for new york state for the senatorial appointment but jacob javits of the united states senator actually gave the appointment to the son of one of his major financial contributors. and so i would back to the congressional district to get their congressional district appointment and. congressman gave the appointment to the son of the republican

mayor of guns falls and so i was completely freaked out that the rules didn't seem to be working it struck me that the system was out of tune so i decided i would become a lawyer and spend some time helping to tune the system to get it back into tune but the more time i spent being a lawyer the more i realized that the system wasn't really out of tune it's just that it was playing a completely different saw from that which we had been told when we were in high school and studying civics and i decided i was going to be a lawyer and i became a civil rights lawyer found the civil rights law review at harvard harvard law school and went on to practice in this particular area at that time from one thousand nine hundred sixty eight that sort of halcyon year when i was the the editor of the harvard law review all the way through in while i was there i actually initiated the case that went to the united states supreme court to

establish the right of journalists to protect their confidential news sources and because of that i was hired by the number one law firm on wall street that represents n.b.c. and there i was i was there when we received the pentagon papers so i became intimately involved in the initial decisions to decide whether to publish the papers and if so what was going to happen with the nixon administration and so i went into doing that and was in all of the closed door hearings with the judges in all we do know is the supreme court i was one of the few lawyers that was deeply involved in that all the way to the end. from there i went to bally's office and i was there when he was retained to represent james mccord in the watergate burglary so i ended up finding out about what was exactly going on what caused the watergate burglary what was behind the watergate burglary and because of that i laughed and went back to harvard to go to divinity school af. having finished harvard college

in sixty seven harvard law school and seventy in one hundred seventy three i went back to harvard divinity school. studied the the origins of natural law and the relationship of natural law to the constitution of united states and so that's how i ended up in this particular specialized area of the law that's remarkable i mean you've been at the pivot point of so many major american historical it's the thing that makes your book so so amazing the people's advocate it's almost it's almost for as gump like except that you were intentional about all this stuff you were being driven right you know it's you you were you said you were involved in the hallway to the supreme court the first essentially shield laws what do you have what are your thoughts on the on the current state of that i mean right now we have dianne feinstein saying that we have to define what a journalist is and it seems to me and please correct me if i can hear the guy who knows this stuff and i don't but it seems to me that instead of protecting journalists we need to be protecting acts of journalism because we live in an era

where pretty much anybody can commit an act of journalism which should be protectable in other words revealing something and blowing the whistle the public people can make publishers tomorrow you know put up a blog. and but to say that oh we're only protecting journalists and somebody is only a journalist if they drop a check from a company that we approve of is the first step down the road to state certification of of and state control alternately of a process your thought of this is this this is all this is all part and parcel as you know time of the descending upon the united states of this national security state mentality that's happened since nine eleven and in that in that period of time says nine eleven we have kind of an increasing drumbeat of kind of reactionary fear driven. policies in the united states now and this is one of them to to try.

back against the major shield laws that we got passed back in one nine hundred seventy one seventy two and seventy three we got all these shield laws stablished on the grounds that it was the belief of the state legislatures that there was a clear constitutional right of journalists to protect their contents from news sources in order to continue to get to have the flow of information coming especially with regard to government corruption and national security matters almost all of those issues arose around national security matters so that the relationship between the right of journalists protect their confidential news sources and the right of the new york times to publish the classified forty seven volumes of the pentagon papers it was an intimate relationship that was there and i was there for both of those cases and helped establish what the principals and rules were but what happened is that there was a reaction this set in against this that as we know the high watermark the high watermark of this entire confrontation between our generation the idealist

generation of the twenty first century and the world war two generation that major confrontation came to a head over the vietnam war and in the pentagon papers case in what happened is the reactionaries in that generation struck back and they brought into power ronald reagan they brought him into power and as you as you all know of course the chairman of his a campaign was bill casey and they actually came to power by actually striking a deal with the hezbollah to continue to keep our fifty two american hostages that have been taken at the embassy in iran to keep them in custody until after the election at which point ronald reagan agreed not only to to give them told missiles but to also provide other kind of assistance to the has been in the right wing muslim brotherhood and we've seen the repercussions of that now. fifty. hundred

eighteen years later we're now confronted by these people who are armed in a large part by the reagan and bush administrations so that this the practice of constitutional law has placed me right at the center of a lot of the major issues that arose not only around the vietnam war on the right of journalists to protect our competence to lose privileges but also the fact of all the issues that are going on now with the national security state the attempt to chase down edward snowden his his need to retreat into one of the very two countries in the whole world to china and then russia. treating him to these places where the few places where the united states military doesn't deem themselves authorized to just go in and unilaterally assert its power its full spectrum dominance which was the theme of those reactionaries inside the reagan bush administrations and in the w. bush administration this policy is basically attempting to replicate the nineteenth century imperialist worldview that was that was dominant in the western

civilization prior to the rise of the soviet union in one thousand nine hundred seventeen and as soon as the soviet union dissolved itself terribly in december and december thirty first of one thousand nine hundred one the paul wolfowitz and the others that were in there the bush sr administration at that time came together and designed this entire foreign policy concept of full spectrum dominance and that's what we're looking at right now we're living in the domestic side of a national security state and it is engaged in a global policy of the establishment of full spectrum dominance on the part of united states military that's what's happening right now and as a constitutional lawyer my obligation is to protect our american people and to protect the world from unconstitutional conduct on the part of our executive branch and also on the part of our united states congress and we've been attempting to do this through the judicial branch of. legibly independent judicial branch but since

since the election of ronald reagan seventy three percent of all of the federal judges that appointed have been appointed by ronald reagan or george bush or george bush jr you know in that we have these reactionaries from the federalist society now in the judicial branch which are making it virtually impossible to to seek protection from the judicial branch against the unconstitutional conduct of the executive so that a constitutional litigation attorney such as myself find myself right at the center of these types of confrontations between the raw assertion of executive power whether it's rendition or torturing people or asserting the right under the national defense authorization act to unilaterally arrest american citizens and hold them in detention with no right of habeas corpus and the right to counsel and no one would believe that this could possibly have happened in our country but here it is what i do in the book in the people's advocate as i explained from a front row seat that i had throughout these entire last three decades what it

looked like seeing this national security state coming descend upon our country that's why the book is so important not because it's all about me because it's not it's about an era when this happened how it is that the executive branch step by step by step moved into a position of asserting its power not only over the united states citizenry to threaten to arrest us without right to counsel a right to a trial by a civilian jury we can now be tried in front of a military tribunal and be convicted and sentenced to life in prison without a single civilian review by any court at all now this is quite outrageous in the book the people's advocate explains step by step how this came to pass so that people can see how this came to pass so that we can mobilize to do something about it and that's why i think it's important for people to read the book in understand how we came to this pass so that we can know what to do about. you know and one of

the more important pivot points which i daniel she in the book that he's referring to is the people's advocate the life and legal history of america's most fearless public interest lawyer one of those probably pivot points was the was the red contra affair and president bonny solder of iran was elected in one thousand nine hundred eighty during that campaign ronald reagan versus jimmy carter on a platform in iran of freeing the hostages he won overwhelmingly and he published an op ed piece in march of this year of this year two thousand and thirteen in response to the movie argo publish an op ed piece saying the vast majority of iranians did not want to hold the hostages after he was elected he went to the to the mall and said ok and this was while the campaign was still going on here in the united states said let's free the hostages and they said to him no you can't we cut a deal with the reagan campaign that was published in the christian science monitor in march of this year and there wasn't a peep about it you know the president of iran saying the president reagan

committed treason how i'd love to get your thoughts on that we have to take a quick break and we come right back with that daniel she had more of a tonight's conversations of the great minds of dana right after the break. dramas the truth being ignored to the. stories of others to a few students. but since changing lights in this. picture. from roads to to. go .

i am the president and i think a society that case big corporation trying to convince that it can do. the banks are trying to get all that money all about money and fashionably late for a politician writing the laws and regulations tax breaks. there is just too much. today's society. that.

and welcome back to conversations with great minds i'm speaking with daniel sheehan constitutional trial attorney founder of the christic institute and author of the new book the people's advocate the life and legal history of america's most fearless public interest lawyer to get back to where we left off we were talking about how actually let me let me put this in a slightly larger frame because in your book you talk about these things richard first of all jack kennedy was killed and whoever did that apparently got away with it though you know then then we have this other turning point where richard nixon committed a number of crimes he got away with many but he didn't get away with all of news

forced out of office so there and there was a lot of stuff that came out of that church committee and you know the laws of transparency it was a major turning point and then and then reagan bush reagan committed this crime to come into office committed what i would argue is treason to get office and was never prosecuted although you were involved in trying to prosecute him these are each kind of like cyclical flips historical cyclical flips what are your thoughts on that and you can start out by responding to my comments about what president biden solder said i'm curious your thoughts on why the american media did not touch his public proclamation that reagan had. cut a deal in the background with the iranians to all the hostages. this is this is what addressed very directly the gary sick who was the national security council advisor to president jimmy carter working with him on the negotiations has written a book called the october surprise and in that he has

a whole conclusion where he says those of us who have lived in washington d.c. for twenty years or more have become accustomed to the petty scandals in washington an individual senator will be found to have been a womanizer a chronic womanizer or a congressman will be caught dipping his hand into the till of his campaign. as for his private uses that cetera and when that kind of a scandal is exposed all the media rush in and all of their colleagues. those people for having done wrongdoing of that nature and everyone celebrates how the system really works and how the media really come to the to the rescue of the american people in cases like that but gary sick pointed out in his conclusion he said however that those of us who have spent twenty years or more in washington know that there's another entirely different category of crime is being committed in washington upon occasions and in that case the it is a kind of a crime that is so threatening that if it's revealed by the american media or by the american political structures it will undermine the blind confidence on the

part of the governed in their governors now if i didn't that's what if i could if i could interrupt you of just very quickly and speak to that we've played on this program just two years ago i believe it was the johnson library the l.b.j. library finally released the tapes of his conversations when he was in the white house and we played this tape of lyndon johnson talking to everett dirksen during the campaign when when vice president humphrey was running against nixon sixty eight saying we know that nixon is cutting a deal with the south the enemy's not to go to the bargaining table in paris because he had already cut a deal with the south it means he's going to end the vietnam war before the election we know that he says he says i'm reading their hand average this is treason and everett dirksen says yes it is and he says you got to tell him our ad and but it and then and then l.b.j. goes on to say we can't let the american people know about this average it will destroy their confidence in america back to use well what it what it does is it destroys the confidence in the republican and democratic party is that what the

that's what they're most fearful about in we know that richard nixon cut the deal with the with the with the vietnamese we know the reagan bush administration in one thousand eighty cut the deal with the muslim brotherhood we know who. as in the meeting we know the meetings were in paris we know the meetings were in madrid we know all about that and when in fact anybody tried to raise that in any of the major news media etc for example in new york times it's not news that is fit to print it is not fit to print and so they will not reveal that because there is a there is a clique a kind of a governing elite in the united states i know because i ended up i ended up being i was i got the biggest scholarship ever warded to an american to go to harvard college and i came out of a blue crab blue collar setting my father was the first man in our family ever to graduate from high school and so i ended up getting to go to harvard and go to

harvard law school where i was there with all these people from all of the major private schools in the private academies that came in there i see how they train an entire class of people to govern in this country that's why you see so often the people that are presidents and senators and others they're from harvard and yale in from the other ivy league schools they all belong to the same clubs they all they all in fact marry each other's daughters and sons it's an elite a kind of a royalist set and they're very much connected to the major financial houses you get people like brown brothers harriman where you have j.p. morgan as part of that rockefeller's are all part of that the major financial barons are all part of that in the chairman of the c.e.o. of brown brothers harriman was george herbert walker and george that prescott bush that's right he was the with the nazis prescott bush in fact married the daughter of george herbert walker and that's how he got to be the chairman of the board of brown brothers harriman when when george herbert walker went when to set up

a bank the union bank of new york that helped set up a branch in the netherlands to help fund hitler to rise to power as the ball work against communism in europe now these are historical facts that those of us who work in this area the special area have come. you know very well what we've been trying to do is when we had some can access to the judicial branch we could get to the judicial branch in place this type of information before a jury and ask a jury to decide what they think about something like this the problem is now that with such a huge majority of the federal judges all appointed by ronald reagan george bush are left over from richard nixon in ford you know that the problem is they don't care about the constitution they basically think the constitution is the ship that sits in the harbor in boston that this is a political war that they view themselves as being involved in and what we have to try to decide is whether or not we as american citizens are going to join together

to rise up to do something about this this is what we talk about in the book and that's what the people's advocate is all about that when i represent individuals that is not representing just the individual who's representing our entire american people attempting to stand up and take power back away from this ruling elite and take it back into the hands of the people that's what the book is all about that's why people should read the book and then they should really figure out what to do in the present situation for example with the national defense authorization act that was signed into law eleven fifty five pm on new year's eve of two thousand and eleven by obama which authorizes the arrest of us and put in front of military tribunals we need to move and organize ourselves to establish constitutional protections owns we need to go to the city councils in our city we need to go to our county boards of supervisors and have them declare that they will instruct our law enforcement officers to not allow any federal officials to come into their jurisdiction and attempt to

a foreign force that unconstitutional statute just like we did when we established the the nuclear free zones to stop the american federal government from transporting the waste elect the nuclear waste from the hundred three nuclear facilities in the country after we won the karen silkwood case and the through. island litigation i was chief counsel in both of those cases and what we did is we enforced those that opinion from the court we enforced it by getting city councils and county boards of supervisors to declare their jurisdictions to be nuclear free zones so that the government could not transport those waste materials from those hundred three facilities and put them under yucca mountain in nevada which is what they were trying to do which way later discovered was over the largest aqua aquifer in the entire southwest the american people we need to understand that we cannot rely upon this class of people this elite class of people to rule in our favor because they won't they will rule in favor of the bankers they will rule

in favor of the major corporations they will rule in favor of the other people in their elite clan that they have got that we need to rise up in to assert ourselves and to go into our local city councils our local boards of supervisors and declare they will instruct their law enforcement officials to defy any federal official that tries to come into their jurisdiction to enforce that statute which is clearly and plainly not only unconstitutional but in absolute defiance of the most fundamental principles of our constitution depriving us of free speech freedom of association the right to counsel the right to habeas corpus the most fundamental pillars of our entire constitutional system have been set aside by that particular statute all in the name of alleged anti-terrorism after the bush administration george bush sr sent two hundred fifty thousand united states military forces into the heartland of the oil fields of the middle east to attempt to establish full full spectrum dominance over the natural resources of the planet as soon as the

soviet union voluntarily dissolved that's what we're faced at the present time with in the american people need to wake up and mobilize that's what lawyers are for and that's why the people's advocate is advocating these type of things for all of the people one by one in. that's what i do as a profession in the in the minute and a half or two minutes that we have left i'm i'm curious your thoughts on the generational dimension of this you talk about this is some length and then the introduction of your book. and well what it what it is is there's there's a book that was written by william strauss. it's called generations the history of america's future and what it points out is that in every hundred year period there are four generations that are born from approximately twenty one to twenty five years each and what the one nine hundred sixty s. the period that's referred to as the sixty's really represented a fundamental confrontation between our generation and the idealist generation of the twenty first century eighty two million people strong in rising up to

a trying to get the world war two generation to come to grips with the fundamental flaws that we had discovered in the system and now those flaws are coming to full fruition with the massive global climate change that we're confronted with the grossly unstable economy that we have now these are crises that are going to fall upon the new generation the civic generation of the millennium the second largest in the second best educated generation in the history of the world seventy two seventy two million strong we need to form a coalition to organize ourselves to to remedy these fundamental problems because the idealists are aware of what the fundamental ideals of our country are in the civic generation the millennial us are the ones we're going to have to confront and resolve these fundamental crises of the twenty first century that's what william strauss and neil talk about in their book called generations a history of america's future and this is what i discuss at some length in the book to explain why it is that our generation got into such

a major confrontation with the world war two generation of george herbert walker bush and ronald reagan in the others and that is what we need to train our people the next generation the millennial generation to partner with us to address these fundamental crisis. these that's what the book is all about i think guys what the people's advocate is about and i think i think you've actually nailed it in fact it's astounding to me when i travel around the country speaking on these issues the audiences are made up of people in their twenty's and people in their fifty's and sixty's and seventy's daniel she and you were at a brilliant book you've lived an extraordinary life and you continue to do extraordinary work the people's advocate the life and legal history of america's most fearless public interest why are you an honor to have you on the program and i thank you for joining us thank you pleasure to be here. to see this and other conversations with great minds go to our website and conversations of great minds.

that. i'm. trying to. do and thank you all that. much and i'm actually that for politics right the blog. right. here just like. a. st augustine. teaching tool. undercover team of journalists trying to release which leads documents them out to see how the united states is trying to. make the local media more

pro-american they encounter fear ignorance and pressure. country blocks the way to information freedom. media style. teach. us how as a new alert animation gets scared me a little bit. there is breaking news tonight and we are continuing to follow the breaking news. alexander's family cry tears of snow white and gray things out there that had the ad ran dark and a court of law found online is a story made for a movie is playing out in real life.

coming up on our t.v. year two thousand and thirteen nears its end and it was quite a year for the news of the boston bombing the n.s.a. revelations r.t. was there covering it all special roundtable in the greatest news hits just ahead. a new york federal judge rules of davis' ball collection of phone records is legal this really runs counter to last week's ruling by a federal judge in d.c. who found the program to be likely unconstitutional the latest update on that more later in the show. and it's the false positive no one wants to see generally but it turns out that on the web people are buying and selling used pregnancy tests will take an in-depth look at what drives this audit industry.