tv [untitled] February 26, 2014 5:30pm-6:01pm EST
well. science technology innovation all the latest developments from around russia we've got the future covered. hello and welcome to cross talk or all things were considered i'm peter lavelle revolutionary care of with the illegal overthrow of the democratically elected government in ukraine the country stands at the abyss politically economically and
even care a horribly strongly supported by the e.u. and washington the new rulers of my dawn are seen as ideological zealots can they reach out to all ukrainians or will we divide the country even more. to cross talk of bents in ukraine i'm joined by my guest amanda paul in brussels she is a policy analyst at the european policy center we also have alexander me curious in london he is a legal writer and analyst and in moscow we cross to dimitri he's a political analyst with the voice of russia radio station all across talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it alexander if i can go to you first in london where the government was supposed to be formed today and they're postponing it is this. a indication of what's going to come where we don't have unity even in kiev we have never had unity amongst the
opposition leaders and that's been a serious problem they have never been able to agree which of them leads the opposition movement and to make matters worse we now know the two of the most important opposition leaders mrs to machine co and mystically each girl have ruled . have ruled themselves out ok i'd like to turn to war against amanda in brussels how do you see things playing out in kiev right now because we've seen is that the opposition is having a very hard time finding some kind of unity how in the world if they can't find unity during a crisis situation that we have right now how can they reach out to the east that is watching this with a very wary eye well i would agree that historically. the opposition parties in ukraine have found it quite difficult to cooperate with each of our but i still believe this time around we've seen a much greater degree of readiness to work together of course you could say the fact that they didn't agree this interim government it is
a would indicate divisions but i would also say that we need to be extremely careful in choosing the personalities who are going to be representative in this government because if we don't want to government that's filled with personalities from the past we need new faces so i don't think we need to exaggerate the fact that it's taking a couple of extra days to put this government together ok dimitry it is a crisis situation here they become trees only weeks away from default and it looks like the western powers that are so gleeful about the illegal overthrow of this government are going to be able to cough up the money to keep this economy going because if it doesn't do that then it's going to be a problem for everybody well first peter i would like to correct you these people are not their position anymore they are in power in kiev diffract or at least a few people darpa that they will be in power for the next few years because the e.u. and the united states were extremely quick in the recognize in their legitimacy all
of these new leadership even though all this. they deal between the on a quarter inch. was on the division of powers not on kind in power over to these people. it's a scandal that the three foreign ministers all of big countries france germany and poland today guaranteed this so-called deal which was not worth the paper that it was written on and none of these ministers this is an even greater scandal none of these ministers all of them appear to be untroubled by this new development it looks like the e.u. there that this face may pressure the i.m.f. to give money to create this time not to give money of course but to lend money before and it may stay on to quote each of the i.m.f. conditions were very tough. ukraine was supposed to hike the prices
for electricity and for gas for the population it was also supposed to privatized water the utilities so that they could be they could become profitable and then they could be sold to foreign company yes we will see if there i.m.f. will stick to the same conditions but i think that ukraine's bankruptcy is an enormous interest and i think these countries a crane may become bankrupt if completely irresponsible people come to power i mean i'm going to go to alexander here because i think that is you know one of the things i find very troublesome about everything that's being played out here is that very few people in the west doubt that have any inkling of questions about legitimacy of what's going on in cannes and i have a lot of concerns right there because you know you could say that there are maybe there was a liberal element in kiev that wanted to see a change fine but they were in bed with some pretty nasty. elected by anyone except for some violent rioters on them i don't indeed so can i just say one of the most
dangerous and alarming of these people mr dimitri yarosh i saw today is actually angling to be made deputy prime minister in this interim government which would be a very alarming development indeed now on the question of legitimacy let's be absolutely clear that not only was the power sharing arrangement that dimitri was talking about not worth the paper that it was written on but what we have seen since friday has been an extraordinary colao absence of any kind of constitutional order mr yanik overeaters removed from power without any process of impeachment. laws have been passed out and for normal rate. why a parliament doing completely the opposite of what it was elected to do. an acting president has been appointed contrary to the provisions of the constitution and
steps are being taken to outlaw or at least to prevent or restrict the use of russian which is also contrary to the constitution now to talk about legitimacy in this situation is to my mind extremely difficult this is not a legitimate situation it is a revolutionary situation in which the traditional political leaders the people we were talking about political yet saying york timoshenko they are not in control the people who are in control in kiev are entirely different people very violent people sometimes very extreme people people with very alarming views but they're the people at the moment who are in charge because they have the crowds and they have the guns ok men have if you think the european union should be in bed with some of these people from the right sector of the border i mean anyone that takes any interest in what's going on in ukraine will find out that these are
a very unsavory people with some very very violent and really backward looking ideas about politics. well i think we have to remember how we got to this point in the first place and the reason why we're at this point and including this economic disaster in ukraine is because of the bad economic and political policies of the leadership of the new conviction all of those cronies that was surrounding him i mean he basically ran ukraine like a fifth them which was only beneficial to himself. i don't think i don't think anybody on this program would disagree with what you're saying but you're not answering my question well of course there is extremist elements within this group of euro maidan protesters we know that but still the broader base of these protesters are still remain all remaining peaceful and calm i don't think you can define all of these people as wielding guns because that's simply not the case i
mean if you go out into the streets of kiev today and we're not seeing violence all over the place but the expectations is from euro maidan protesters they want to see this new interim government when it's put in place temporary leadership on the promises that they've made on the original demands of the people so of course they are going to be that say a bit skeptical given the history of ukraine's political elites dimitri here in moscow i mean can you have a transition to any kind of form of democracy defined by washington or brussels when it's being ruled by a mob. well. peter i i would at the same time agree and disagree with something that i'm on the cess on the vine can't yes not all of the people in mind on where wielding guns in the same way in one thousand thirty three not all of the people who voted for hitler wanted to be exterminated not all of them wanted to invade russia or to become monsters of your
. this is the problem you know maybe in a few days you will have less people will dingaan's right now there are all of these so-called self-defense units controlling kiev and these self-defense units organized people are in all the gov in the in the west on the over ukraine in the war they forced the former police officers to stand on their knees and to beg the crowd for forgiveness you can watch it on the internet and their so-called liberal . media in ukraine like the western support that. they cherish these images they say that this is the civilization this is democracy although it seems it looks a bit medieval to me the problem is that it's enough to read the programmes of these people i mean read the programme of jarosz he says that people who don't want to speak ukrainian should be expelled from ukraine he says that nuclear weapons
should be brought back to ukraine ukraine should have nuclear status again these views of he is are shared by any book and we see shaking hands with catherine ashton and with victoria nuland and with other people from the e.u. in the united states i think the most terrible consequence of what happened in ukraine is that the united states and the you disqualify themselves as saying to me juries after they failed to guarantee they dream and that was signed under their all spaces how can they be trusted in future. if there is any conflict in the former soviet union in russia or in belarus or in armenia and there may be a lot more conflicts who will view the e.u. and the united states as arbiters a centimeter eous this is awful and i would say that coups are not a new thing in the former soviet union they have been happening since one thousand
nine hundred one and even before but the problem was that before the united states in the you were never very quick in support in coups ok he. was toppled in one thousand nine hundred one. you know will stop all the nazir by two hours later all was the united states and europe always took a somewhat detached attitude they've waited for a few days they never said that we're happy about what happened and here they guaranteed again i'm going to jump in here folks we're going to what you're going to do a short break and after that shove rick will continue our discussion on ukraine staying with r.t. . if you.
think. over my shoulder to go did you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy correct allmers. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and our proximity we've been hijacked by handful of transnational corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers once built i'm talking mark and on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying. rational debate real discussion critical issues facing are. you ready to join the movement then welcome to.
the lead. welcome back to cross talk we're all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the recent developments in ukraine. ok amanda let's go back to you in brussels there's an old saying if you break it you own it and since the e.u. has been so. been involved in the recent events even i would call a coup illegal coup in camp isn't it now responsible for what happens in camp right now being you know people talking about giving it loans and all of that i mean it's really quite interesting isn't it that you know the people of greece and cyprus probably find this really quite odd that the european union is so interested. involving itself in the affairs of ukraine well i don't find it odd whatsoever i
mean ukraine has been for a long time a key part of the e.u. it's a very important state a transit state between russia. and the e.u. so i don't find it strange at all and of course what we've seen out in the streets of ukraine for the past three months has made it very clear that people on your own maidan have been looking to europe looking west for support and assistance from the e.u. to help them democratize and modernize their country i think the e.u. actually has a responsibility to support the ukrainian people to increase security and stability on the european continent which is exactly what the e.u. was created for and i believe in fact the e.u. actually has been too slow in reacting to what happened in ukraine perhaps if they'd gone in earlier with a more robust policy we perhaps might not have seen so many deaths i think the e.u. is correct to try and help ukraine financially and this financial thing i mean
you're saying well how big an even to now get the reward where you're going they have been ok my goodness ok what business is it of the european union to determine what political environment there is an. alexander if i go to you in london i mean it seems to me and i'll be very blunt this is just kind of a very imperious tick attitude but it knows better for other people i do not see any scenario right now there's a good outcome for ukraine if you're over the next few months or next few years i mean the country is going into bankruptcy and who's going to pay for it is of the european union going to pay for it no i doubt it let us look at it go ahead our entirely agree can i can i just say stanley which is this mystery out of code which we are all agreed was an awful leader he was due to face an election in march two thousand and two two thousand and fifteen which he would surely have lost if he had lost that election if that election it happened in a normal way whoever will. have taken over would have taken over in
a democratic way with a constitution and a government that works worked what we have now because of the way in which he was overthrown is an art of the chaotic and fragmented situation in which everything is falling apart and that is precisely because of the wholly illegitimate way in which this was done preempting the result of a democratic election now it was not in the e.u.'s interests it seems to me for that to happen and if we have an economic crisis on our hands which is going to be far worse than it would have been had we had a functioning government in kiev with working within a proper constitutional system ok and you know you has to pay the bill of that well what is the surprise. it seems to me when i went in and look at remembering because
i knew and lead conversation everything is going to plan because they want the e.u. in washington want to have their people in charge in kiev they don't want to elections there they don't want to democracy there because they won't be able to choose who's in power they're doing it right now as we speak well. where play a devil's advocate here for some time. speaking about. i think that here was corrupt and ineffective oh that he had one good thing about him he looked for a compromise. not only is he offered the position the position of their prime minister. he also offered the e.u. several ways out of the crisis before the sun meant he actually didn't cancel this . ill fated association agreement with the you he just postponed it and he suggested try later in negotiations between the e.u.
law school and kiev to run out the differences on the trade courses and the answer from brussels was no we won't have try later negotiations we're only going to talk to you so the e.u. indeed its role in the key of was extremely negative i would like to hear what armando would respond to me you know when she says that the you got involved too early well i think that the involvement of the you was. wholly negative because even now the things that are coming from the e.u. you know like warnings. are brought you know chairman of the european parliament committee he came to ukraine today and he said that ukrainians should stop when chant because this may provoke russia's intervention there are no signs of russia's intervention there was not a single statement by the russian leaders that would make it to look for civil
there were no intercepted conversations nothing but steel you know the e.u. frightening ukrainians by the scarecrow over russian intervention created these terrible atmosphere or witch hunt so i think the elmar brok is the last man quarter fight to stop the witch hunt because he believed in the way and how can you stop that which of the if you will if you believe in that which is ok amended you want to reply to a demon bob it is sad to say here first of all of course elmar brok i mean he doesn't represent the e.u. i mean his comments are wholly unhelpful of course but hey it's not representing the. you you he's not a leader of a member state to an e.u. official and i just want to return to the point that was raised earlier about how we should have waited until the president or lections next year i mean quite frankly i don't think there's any doubt that these elections were not likely to to have been free and fair i mean the last parliamentary elections in ukraine and we know that they were far from being free and fair this was widely reported so quite
frankly the chances of presidential elections being free and fair was not very likely i mean mr yanukovych which is rule we saw democracy going downhill very quickly in ukraine and i don't say where you live in the unions mission to save democracy and in ukraine can you answer that question why is it your responsibility i mean let's look at it from the other way it's not the european union that there's a demand or here it's the it's the ukraine that has demanded from the european union for many years a closer relationship both politically and economically i mean the european union does not go around looking for countries to save the request came from ukrainian political elites from civil society from france from society as a whole they want to have this engagement with the e.u. and they want to have the relationship but what we have seen and i've learned from president a new crate and his government no one other than one of the big problems here is that it is a divided country it's a divided country our xandra can you address that here because again you know we we
have these differences in eastern west and that's what's happening in care of right now is giving plenty of people good reason to say hey you want kiruv you want my dog you can have it because a lot of people are dissatisfied with the kind of political slogans and ideology that is spewing out from care of right now and they don't want to have anything to do with it. well exactly because of course from the point of view of the people in the eastern ukraine this is the third time that a government they elected has been overthrown it happened in two thousand and four it happened in two thousand and seven and it's happened again and not only has it happened this time but we're seeing people like mr yarrow should we talked about before and others like him speaking in the most extraordinary way and talking in a most repressive where and not just about russians by the way but about jews the chief rabbi of the ukraine has said the jews are no longer safe there now
when that happens both course people in the east and the south of the ukraine who do not share the views of some of the people on my done are concerned and of course that accelerates process of fragmentation in a situation where the constitution is no longer working which it isn't at the moment i you know i think you know amanda speaks about democratic elections not happening in two thousand and fifteen we never got there we never found out up to a few months ago the e.u. was dealing with mr yanik over which as the democratically elected president of the ukraine they were dealing with the parliament as the democratically elected parliament of the ukraine now we're told that in two thousand and fifteen that might not have been the case and in that as as
a result of that we have total chaos in kiev now repression all over the place men with guns and you know i am amazed by this denial that the still is on this question when the facts on the ground speak overwhelmingly for themselves and people in the south and east for the first time seriously. talking about secession . here in moscow how do you see that the issue of secession because it's you know it's it's always been there there's the there's been people even people in the crimea looking for an opportunity like this because they don't like the rule from care of how is this going to play out because i know a lot of there's a lot of tensions here there's a lot of tempers flaring what's going on in the east and south. i don't believe that ukraine a will split. of course what's going on there is a lot of injustice. you know people in the east and in the south of ukraine
they lived under the soviet union they were formed under the soviet union so they have a lot of good things you know that they inherited from the soviet union they also have some bad ones and the bad one is to always look up to the authority to walk up to kiev to fulfill the orders even though these orders are now coming from possibly the people who are like mr jarosz i think it's a scandal that mr jarosz who holds all the in the anti-semitic views is going to become a deputy prime minister of ukraine i think it's a scandal that mr tague nyborg is median european leaders that for the first time since i think nine hundred thirty nine we have the situation. i was sorry that i'm on they could not finish i think i can go forward for thinking you know when you say that elections were criticized by the media so that means that the next election is going to be unfair. i don't know then it's very easy to invalidate
any election in the world i'm a journalist i walked with a western journalist i know how easily they report about the breaches of electoral processes in other countries not in their own i mean international organization folks i'm really sorry i wish i really wish we had more time but we've run out of time many thanks to my guest in brussels london and in moscow and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember. cool. child a little writes.
the exploring. pain of the young girl's cammo for the future han or. her son between two and three hundred million guns united states so you can act like they're not here and keep kids away from them for. the causes that is the law or you know i mean this teaches them a lot of for a responsibility and simply come to pay through the eyes of children if we can do it for our children who for future what the country will smooth. i've got a quote for you. it's pretty tough to. stay with sob story. let's
get this guy like you but smear that guy stead of working for the people both issues the mainstream media are working for each other bribery station. they did rather well. i would rather ask questions to people in positions of power. instead of speaking on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on our t.v. question or. a
. particular. hello welcome to breaking the set i'm at a martin or a packed show for you today i'll be talking about religious persecution of the military government trolls and patrolling the net threats that undermine u.s. democracy and a tribute to comedian bill hicks to stick around we have a lot of stats to break. the power supply. it was terrible a. very hard to take time. to get on a plane have you ever had sex with her big hair cut.