tv World Apart With Oxana Boyko RT August 6, 2017 6:29am-7:01am EDT
blue balkan two worlds apart as russia and the united states are turning increasingly confrontational in syria another war torn country may become irony theater for their old rivalry afghanistan has been the geopolitical chessboard for so long is there even a chance for a peaceful resolution to discuss that i'm now and joined by the country's former president hamid karzai mr president it's great to see in moscow. now you've long been arguing that the current american approach to afghanistan is not working that it's time for the americans to assess the strategy and perhaps adjust the course and it strikes me as a little bit too naive it's almost like asking the taliban or ourselves for that matter to lay down arms don't you think that you are perhaps in gauging in a wishful thinking i mean what we need to afghanistan we need peace of. the need against terrorism in afghanistan. and in the name of fighting extremism and terrorism fifteen years on do we have also told moral we have
a lot of. faith. and the casualty is the victim is the afghan people and our peace but the mr president you know better than i did you know what you essentially won the americans and not just american politicians but the american generals to say that it cost billions of dollars thousands of lives we've been wrong you know the chances of that happening. the chances of that happening on the american side i don't know looks listen this likely but i as an afghan have the right to seek peace from my country into do all i can to bring that peace what should i do is advise the americans as i've been doing or do is remind americans what is told americans that they've been making mistakes and that the way they are doing things will not work second what should
they do is also bring in the major powers of the world who are incidentally all of them our neighbors russia china india iran and also pakistan as a country of our neighbor and for that reason to be an environment of cooperation between them and the united states and afghanistan as we had initially when we started this campaign now i would like to discuss the recent strides our efforts in in the region diplomacy but before we go there i want to ask you specifically about the united states because. when the trump an illustration there there were some hopes initially that it may seek a more pragmatic approach given the events of the last few weeks including the the dropping of largest non atomic bomb and. do you think those hopes of a new beginning of a more pragmatic policy course are they still justified i'm not yet given up on it
. president trump had initially the right overtures towards russia. i understood the complexity of international relations and recognized that that with of cooperation with russia there would not be much achieved for the united states specially on a place like syria and on the situation in afghanistan. as an afghan and for. i was very hopeful and to hopefully look forward to the much needed cooperation between. russia and the united states and here it is the united states that has walked out of it for some unknown reasons they have to come back and explain the situation in afghanistan turn a wristwatch when truong i don't want to get us on to become an area of competition and rivalry well i want afghanistan to become a place of cooperation i appreciate very much your aspirations but you know again better than i do that competition is
a ruling the day in international side only yes it shouldn't be bad though why would the afghanistan of all the other war torn countries be an exception it should be an exception because if they don't call parades afghans will rise against those who have the key to the students in afghanistan today it is the united states they just bombed us with the biggest of the bomb that they had short of a nuclear bomb a country that they call allies and would one expect me to give quite. well at least they would say that they they have the green light from the from your successor as afghanistan's wrong and wrong no they didn't even from the off going to go well at least this is not what the president gunny says he says he says that yes i know the alteration was a distortion but let me ask you a broader question that because it seems that the trumpet ministration has this
propensity for very dramatic moves whether it is in afghanistan or in syria without necessarily arcee kill a ting a strategy behind it and that is a reverse on president obama who was a very eloquent speaker but was sometimes accused of not doing my make certain which presidential style you find more concerning i find both concerning i find what president obama did very much concerning by allowing the situation to get out of fountain get us where we are i find the listeners of. president trump extremely concerning and his. blind decision to go and bomb in nation in the name of a small group of the kind of be the americans and do as president cannot be so disrespectful of people as they have shown the other day by bombing our country now that's targeted at the american strike came
a day before russia hosted multinational talks on the prospects for afghan security and national reconciliation and the talks in which the united states very declaratively declined to participate do you see any connection between these two occurrences the bombing and the talks. it will be difficult for me to see a connection even if there is i don't know offered but i know that the americans should have participated in those talks in consideration of talks on afghanistan and moscow i also know that the russians are going to flush i should have been active long before this on afghani shoes as a neighbor of ganesan who is this radical force who is bringing up radicalism in this region what is the source of extremism in afghanistan what is this terrorist activity in afghanistan who is behind it the should have been questions we asked questions in afghanistan. russian or other neighbors didn't well i know that they
have begun to do something. it's a bit late it's quite late but we supported we need. a concerned voice we need questions to be raised with the someone to ask questions and to do something well you know as we say in russia better late than never but this latest efforts on on the part of russia to get more involved in the diplomatic talks surrounding afghanistan do receive certain pushback from the united states and the u.s. state department specifically says that this recent consultations organized by moscow seemed to be a unilateral russian attempt to assert influence in the region despite the fact that there were senior officials from a dozen countries present do you think the americans still fill in tie told to afghanistan as their sort of privileged zone of influence well they may feel that way but that's wrong nobody should feel intitled to a privileged position of afghanistan afghanistan as
a country. at least thousands of years old we have been around as a formidable country. we have shown our our our our our strength and our metal. already in toronto creating to add to the soviet union included to the two to two to britain three times included and americans should recognize that as well our poverty is should not be seen as a request by the americans and they should allow afghanistan to be a place of cooperation here i would ask the russia the russia the same thing that their intention should focus on returning afghanistan to a competent of environment and to a movement to peace well the present this is part of a larger problem of conflict resolution is the fact that it's seen as a competitive felt from to gain or lose influence rather than solve problems you've seen so many futile talks what makes you believe want to stay in your believe in it
in the. south fullness of any negotiations especially given that those countries that are involved in those negotiations they haven't resolved their own issue as well as themselves how can they do anything substantial far gattis than yours where there are two different things here what is the issues that they have among themselves like russia and the last is between themselves or china and the united states or china and russia there's also another reality that we have a dangerous dangerous growth of terrorism in afghanistan under the u.s. watch and doing the u.s. traditions this needs an explanation to the afghans because we are the ones that suffer first to the region because the consequence is reached addition. and to the global object of of the war on terror
someone needs to answer the united nations as to what when truong do we want extremism to grow further and turn to grow further and keep affecting everybody from simply just broke to paris to sweden to germany to. the muslim world or do we want to find a solution if the us wants to find a solution the answer is in cooperation not in treating competition or jealousy let me ask you to do more because this is a rhetorical question that i know you're often pose in your interest but are you yourself confident in the answer to that question do you think the united states genuinely wants to put an end to extremist and terrorist problem especially in central asia and the middle east well that's the answer to the question the little one i have an answer to that matter what you know now i will answer it do you want generally to and extremism and terrorism and if they want they must show good faith
and see cooperation that cannot be done if they want to end terrorism cannot be done by denying space to cooperation and by doing things on the ground like in afghanistan that actually promote extremism and radicalism or what kind of things you have in mind for example one forty years we told them that afghanistan was the ground where the victims of terrorism were created where we were the victims of tears. that the sanctuaries would beyond afghanistan and force mix in this case in a neighboring park stuff that they should address that they didn't second we told them that you shouldn't go to afghan villages don't attack our people that's not where terrorism is they're the victim they didn't do that. they created an environment of suspicion fifteen years own the prolongation of the war caused its
own suspicions and our neighbors the suspicion has given rise now to thinking that the us probably doesn't want to end extremism that is just a tool in their hands if that happens everyone would be tempted to either use the same tool or to do things to stop the us that means environment generally globally of negativity and in of ghana stand off destructive rivalry that is what we want to end present as i we have to take a very short break now but back in just a few moments they chant. you know provision i want to know what. if.
we. join us you know provision are. you not just i mean what i'm already what it was but. i remember the lord. give it up as well i must. get rid of them getting worse but those. people are going to respect one of this part of. my body and we've got a bomb i just. that there already yes it will be thought of i think of it but i think with you you're implementing about a lot of problem you just got to go you. here's what people have been saying about rejected and i. just pulled. the only show i go
out of my way to you know what it is that really packs a punch. yampa is the john oliver of a party america is going to say we are apparently better than nothing. and see people you never heard of love jack to the next president of the world bank very. seriously send us an e-mail. welcome back to worlds apart we are discussing afghanistan similarly and less wars with the country's former president hamid karzai mr president we're recording this interview in moscow and the russians and the new diplomatic efforts but a lot of emphasis on developing the so-called regional approach which is frankly speaking a very broad and i would claim the inexpressive phrase what do you think the
russians mean by a regional approach and how's it different from their approach that americans have tried so far because they have also tried to engage neighboring countries apart from brush on afghanistan well we have had different to forces to afghanistan different because there was the stumble process there is the the the organizations that are around afghanistan the russian vision the approach is with a specific objective in mind that is to bring about. it all put it if you can gauge mint of the countries in our own neighborhood for the purpose of bringing the taliban to a negotiating. with the afghan government and fellow afghans one aspect secular aspect of it is to bring an environment of cooperation through the regional organizations especially the shanghai cooperation organization and in
this case also sar in the in our view it is very important to us to take matters into our own hands if the west led by the united states is not interested in extremism we can't sit by and watch and suffer we have the means in this region and fortunately these means were not used in the past neither by russia nor by china nor by india they kept waiting for the united states standing by those once you mean i mean the financial means i mean the intelligence means i mean is the political influence means i mean is the means of a giraffe a cult contiguity classic geopolitics done i'm here for a dad they say it's going to make the situation in your country even worse you know the classic geopolitical means have to be used not for rivalry but for. his of the porsche that is what russia should be doing that's what i advised russia to do and that's what they're doing right now in other words if one power has failed
to deliver the goods and we keep suffering. shouldn't to be invited everybody is to cooperate with the power to bring the results that we seek and this approach the consultative process launched in moscow and broadening this process to including the taliban and the afghan government would hopefully bring us now the u.s. secretary of defense general james mattis has already called russia a strategic competitor when it comes to afghanistan so he clearly doesn't appreciate development corporation as much as you do and i think that also reflects the sounds of insecurity psychological insecurity that the americans have to sort out first that has little to do with afghanistan i think it's internal american problem how do you think the world the regional power should talk to the united states to persuaded in the. existence of mutual interest that it could be actually beneficial for all to join forces and finally put an end to that endless war when
when general mattis says that russia's strategic competitor in afghanistan. do they mean that they are up to something. which russia shouldn't of be off what is that obviously means that is that object that russia should not that madalyn about his active middle. middle in determining the african government of course russia shouldn't do that so should the united states not do that but if the u.s. is in afghanistan to fight extremism that's the name in which they came. to afghanistan and if they have failed and if there is need for help is that is to to competition or a strategic alliance tours called an objective if the purpose of the united states is to use of ghana stand as a strategic launching pad of course there will be rivalry to it of course the countries in the region will feel threatened we will feel threatened as well and we
will not allow that because that will make us the ground on which we fight takes place and of course the research is a competition of it and we don't want that but if the us is in afghanistan to accomplish the purpose defeat terrorism and big peace to afghanistan which is what they have declared then they must seek help not competition there's like i say let me ask you a question. when you read x.-rays in afghanistan there are two competing theories on what is the american ultimate objective in afghanistan some say that the united states wants to get out as soon as possible so you don't deal with it you know some people in russia believe that part of the goal is to create instability for the neighboring countries to sort it out and then there is another theory that the united states wants to stay in afghanistan indefinitely to use it as a permanent base as a last launching potential launching pad of attacks against let's say iran china
russia or perhaps any other country which are based to two theories do give more credence to the last the the prolongation of the war in the name of the war on terror the emergence of more extremism and terrorism the arrival of dilution of galveston and afghanistan becoming. more a country affected by extremism. in the prisons of the was during the preserve this would take us to the last two suspicions that war is a means for them to stay. for longer and to do things beyond gonna stop speaking of of the taliban i'm sure you've heard that the americans lately have been making allegations against russian to some extent against iran literally meddling diplomatically in afghanistan from paris but also providing the taliban with weapons and all kinds of material and military support in your honor
for have you comic across any evidence that would either support or negate those assumption no no no. the americans are talking to the taliban regularly. they speak to them in pakistan we know that. they speak to them in qatar we know that they probably also meet with them elsewhere the russians talk with olive bond is is nothing unusual others do it so fall for russia it's nationally the way you did to talk to your anime and that's better than fighting the allegations that the russians are providing weapons is something that has only come from america we have not heard it from anywhere else and so we don't believe that the taliban already have plenty of weapons. from parks from situation is out of gas that there fora i believe this is more propaganda but.
very do need to engage with the taliban in order to bring a situation. they are a party to the conflict and this is what we have been asking the united states for years to do for us. by convincing parks that. now that other powers of initiated this process of engaging with pakistan towards a solution a peaceful solution of afghanistan we welcome it you know why we want peace in afghanistan. i want my children to live in a peaceful country that's my home that's when my daughters are. president karzai number backspace noted that over the last few years the amount of weaponry in afghanistan has increased substantially we in russia are quite accustomed to all sorts of unsubstantiated allegations that the americans but even if it's not russia that is supplying those weapons somebody must be supplying those weapons because
even the united nations recognizes that there isn't in crease in arms in afghanistan he's doing that yes also some players just. speculation you know. being bringing weapons to afghanistan they've been buying weapons from russia for afghanistan when there were there was cooperation russia allowed the united states transit drive through the russian territory to supply the afghan forces and of the u.s. needs and afghanistan so and we know park sun has been doing this for years with the taliban in full view of the u.s. after september eleventh when the u.s. is intervened as afghanistan and pushed the taliban out and pushed the parks the nie. vision out of afghanistan the u.s. and allowed pakistani planes to go to northern afghanistan and to have part study person out of afghanistan so the united states was buddy buddy and in bed with
parkes them for all of this so they know what's happening in the new who supplies the thought about now you mentioned your young daughters and. that reminded me of another question. one of part of your reasoning for why you support the talks with the taliban and that they hail from from your country they are not an important force but. i wonder if you really want your daughters to grow up with the ideology that the taliban brings with it ok is there certain cultural knowledge is diktats. how we view them preventing them from imposing those diktats on the up you look i'm an afghan and the taliban of afghan and there are afghans i don't have the same views of the taliban an education on the woman and all that and there are many of afghans who don't have the same views as the taliban there are people within the taliban who don't have the same views of some of the taliban experience there are some of the want to education is in use are still very very strong that's not bad. but that's not the value of the country millions of afghans went to educate the
children millions of afghans are educating their daughters we want peace and we want peace through negotiations and we must get together we are a muslim society we will remain a muslim society we will remain within the dictates of islam islam allows education rather promote education for for all for boys and for girls so no that is not the impression that we have our impression is that once peace comes the country will do a lot better than the remote opportunities for afghans and afghan women of the us and finally president karzai while you're insisting on the negotiated peaceful solution the attacks on they have got army continue you know them last year and you know i have got a soldier is three times more against yes i killed in afghanistan than the number of americans that are clearly what it is that the taliban at least in some
provinces has the upper hand what makes you believe that they would be willing to come to the negotiating table when we already have such an ability to inflict so much when if they if they consider themselves afghans they have families and children as well they are affected as well they also die their children die is a human need as human beings we need to engage and have peace and i break. peace is the permanent permanent sin. in your country i have seen nothing but war for the last fifty years and for the last. but sadly sadly with the doesn't mean if we were doing thirty years in war from the soviet invasion to today in one form or the other that doesn't mean that we should continue in the doesn't mean that you want this nobody wants this therefore peace is the solution and the more
our neighbors the bigger neighbors in this with us the better for us and that's what we are seeking and encourage. all into your endeavor thank you very much for your time and to our viewers please share your comments no twitter facebook and youtube pages and i hope the same place same time here in a while to part a. good interview i think you always this is all thank you nice interview thank you very much as always thank you very much. all.
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