tv Worlds Apart RT December 28, 2017 2:30pm-3:00pm EST
the future finally replays the debates over history to discuss that i'm now joined by russian philosopher and public intellectual alexander duke and mr duke it is great to talk to you thank you very much for your time. now one of the most common descriptions of you in western media is something along the lines that he sas what putin thinks i'm sure you wouldn't claim to be the case but i wonder to what extent you believe your ideas about russia and its place in the world its place in history overlap the day d.s. currently prevalent in the kremlin i think that. explaining. because. it. doesn't the whole russian mud so. this. is mates. the liberals who.
for being not so much. spect. to western so. well that may be unproductive but i'm not sure that the your interpretation or truth of the of what russia is always even with people who don't describe themselves as liberals for example i consider myself a patriot but i take an issue with when you sat for example that russia's recognition of the universal declaration of human rights was a mistake that in russia we understand human rights as putin's rights or our rulers rights do you think that putting it would actually agree with such for not. the problem of. the reality. i'm so soldiers. have written many books on so soldier on for us. so. this current
there are. more or less modernized than the rest of us and that is the fall eighty two door the reality that for a foam. society deep. to work with call it is quite different from what our political. legends i think you may be contradicting yourself big because you said before and i heard it on several occasions that what putin is is not necessarily what he wants to be but what the russian people are required to. project and. this will be their leader oh expectations oh dreams and it is sometimes in. response to that answer so there and some times not so it is very important i have
written the book. so my idea that there are two points there is the individual. person or absolutely let me. ask you about putin as a function because i think blood you put in is recent speeches especially since he announced his intention to run for another presidential term some of the most liberal in he's very long political career for example he talked about rights and freedoms in russia as being a values on par with patriotism not laugh he talked and i'm quoting him about liberalizing the russian legislature to broaden economic freedoms he may not identify himself as a liberal but he's conceptual apparatus is found a liberal then it was even a few years ago how do you explain that do you think the russian society is actually asking him to be more liberal not absolute louis don't care about. the liberalism because that is message directed. that is the kind of diplomatic step
or think because we have double hermeneutic. for example we are speaking about what for example human rights first of all the concept of what is human is what are different in the west. the most basic human rights the right to live through the right to be treated equally and fairly by the law he would actually claim that the russian people do you know given the last there is a huge gap between the low and the troops that is that of them are relative. there's del all. over represents the troops moral troops think. mr you can i think this is not what i'm asking you about various you may say that the law doesn't raise up to the morality that's not what i'm asking you about
how there are many people in russia for concerns that the law is not practiced fairly so it's not only not rising enough to the morality but that they way it is applied is corrupt it is often not very just and so on and so forth don't you think that if least on the basic level the rule of the lawyer ease the russian people. has nothing to do with liberalism because liberal law or a low low order and withing that order is necessary order is necessary in strong order and. absolutely we are not happy with this corruption that is. becoming huge now in russia but liberalism has nothing to do with all that because if a law is the law below should be respected. the situation is that the law isn't respected we are so deep in the corruption so i think that there is a. of course up from his liberalism because liberalism. was the reason to
introduce speculation to. really what has to have to do with. don't feel i mean what i hope it all is it is the theft capitalism is absolutely unjust political system. and public and the social conduct and death of wallace for the founding father of liberalism absolutely clear the first individual even more all its heat of course. personal profit individual profit is the basis was considered to be the basis all good for public good so a personal look see what you telling me is that when people steal or when they demand a bribe or when they channel money out of the state budget they actually think that they a benefiting the idea that for ideological liberal reasons rather than organize liberalism
of the so many liberal it has opened the way for that because that's what that was a rehabilitation of the individualism and only. right and the individual should pursue its own agenda and profit so it leads to the corruption in our situation because we have forgotten about the other points of mind because western liberalism is first series or personal profit wisdom sponsibility we have forgotten about the second part of the responsibility and accepted all one pot of liberalism so our awesome interpretation of liberalism is. one of the most important reasons of reigning corruption and could not cure it. he's. seventeen years old freule he didn't. sharon almost seemed. to
be or so because he thinks that liberalism is the cure liberalism is the poison well i disagree with you on that just want to say. i want to ask you why one more thing that you're also very passionate about and this is the issue of identity and this clash of individual versus collective identity you see the west as the champion of purely individual identity awareness russia and appealed to me all collective identity and i would like to ask you not as a philosopher but as a sociologist by training. to support that by data because when i look at the number of volunteers in the west i don't think it supports your thesis that the west lacks collective identity the same thing for russia when you look at suttons social and economic behaviors i think our people may come across as far more individualistic than in far western countries so what do you base the argument on
personal for one to understand the principle. and it starts with individualism and. how what what exactly would support that why do you think that's the case and. if you deny that we are speaking in different universe if you don't agree with something so it was going for. the journalist i have to ask you what what do you base your assumption on and please to. repeat the text i'm not sure about philosophers i'm asking you specifically about a date i referred that question to you as an. individual. because. we're speaking about individualism as a kind of part of. the largest number of volunteers and people who still go to. collective ended there. d.
from saying they're related that. they have nothing to do where is collected by the if you. decide via yourself to become all too there all go to concentrate on your own business that's all depends who decision is taken on the level of the individual soul deny the russians any right or any possibility of making those decisions you don't think that you as an individual make those decisions i think that in the russian traditional. head all is completely different. before we consider what is cumin our own what this man was results of dystonic what is the church so the money was the bought over the cool it's in the communities it's a huge market economy isn't in the common is the same similar rights and that.
all psychology so we are dealing with collective knowledge where where the collective is more than. i'm not disagreeing with the collective identity in russia is expressed stronger than is stronger than in the west but i do think that they never exist in separation and what was interesting to me in the recent putin speech again is that he talked a lot about personal responsibility about. civil society in russia in bringing more people into governing russia don't you think that he himself is trying to dilute that collective identity that you've been talking about the toll i think that is very liberal i agree with that and when a democratic. being crushed a leader. of the expectations of russia of russians of the majority of the russians and the majority. if russia. doesn't want
a liberal democratic leader we first before. wants to have a strong powerful and but totally that cool to restore the. glory of our country independence and freedom for our society for our. state and that is the first of the month after that the second amendment is not civil society is just social justice i think the death watch in a cool place fulfills very well these bought into joe politics and the distorting celebrity and that is why he is so all popular and why we support and keep but keep . it. keep hasn't done anything to it in order to restore social justice anything keep it in some social aspect he he's. a
liberal by saying i am also you are right here because we have to take a very short break but we'll certainly come back to these very interesting subject after every short break statement. was running insisting that wait till i did it again i am. i was to try to list as a. kind you. could do for you but it wouldn't stand but showing you the need you to blush after
i told you. oh. yes yes to. chuck asked. don't. you do from a jewish but you might. just think that if you're miscasting discussed the custos through me just turn over your. fears will people been saying about redacted and neither do i suspect it's the law an awesome deal the show i go out of my way to find you know what it is that really packs a punch to sleep yampa is the john oliver of hearty americans do the same we are
apparently better than food let's see people you never heard of love redacted the night president of the world bank harry. truman it seriously sent us an e-mail. welcome back to worlds apart with russian philosopher and public intellectual alexander mr didden just before the break we started talking about the very peculiar relation that the russian people have with power and you stated that you believe that the russian people are in need and he. they have a historic need for a strong leader and i think. difficult to be argued with but i also think that there is a tendency on the part of the russian people to assume more responsibility for running for running their own country and i think at least from my perspective i
can see the signs of it in many. years of our economy of our social life etc now you've argued that the asian eurasian civilization as you see it is based on very strict hierarchy on. rather than horizontal social organization and i think that may have been sustainable in you know you have the control of the media when you have very little transparency about what is going up in the governing circles but do you think that could be maintained in the information age i think that's informational is projection on the western europe concept or what this information what does progress. on liberal information. is not something neutral something. in the something. spontaneous it is blends so the conspiracy. is this war.
between. when i see the future explained exactly conspiracist it's not negative i mean they know it's negative it sounds a bit jerky of zero. to discount any kind of. arguments and dispatch if i affirm that the man deciding. his own future or humanity think it prepare your intellect to read before it happens is not conspiracy well. it's humanism well i mean we are all entitled to our point of view your earlier called for the internet to be banned and i think it's quite clear that it's not happening in russia any time soon but if you believe in the validity in the strength let alone the sort of divine nature of the ideas why would you want to limit this is not nothing to do with the ideas. idea that
since the nature. of idea is something that was deny it was the beginning of the mother the mother to. destroy it the concept of idea and they think that. it's all human mind ideas about the original understanding something completely different it's something like enjoy or divinity that's something that exists eternally and isn't independent from the. so human so tries to grass. tries to reflect to be mirror over and that is the sense of idea and that's constant has nothing to do was informational because information age it is exchange information that is considered to be normal if not biased but it is biased by the.
wettest. but. i do respect your here at this channel was created to project an alternative point of view and there are many similar channels in other countries i know you speak to the inter kid there is a similar channel in france there is similar channel in china so we can i think agree that there is no more monopoly at least when it comes to the international information what i was asking you about the information age is because centered around the thought transparency what allow people to in my view at least would allow people to take a much more active role in deciding their own destiny you perhaps view it as again an individualistic. thing but why does it have to be in contradiction with the collective identity i don't understand why do you have to make it so binary you can be in a patriot if your country you can understand the history of your country but you
can still assume that i as an individual don't want some person in the kremlin to decide everything i'm going to take the responsibility for my own life and for my own country what's wrong with absolutely nothing more than that. of the potters and democracy. think that the most. liberal democracy when we are speaking about democracy. only spoken was for example and although it's. come first that. liberal democracy is the power over the north. of majority more than that that is the power of minority with the minority as the director is the moderate to zurich. organic maybe hierarchical so.
this understand the govt liberal democracy. democracy in its original sense so i think that in the kremlin sure taken decisions concerning only global aspects for example nuclear or diplomatic relations this other contra strategy go speck the specs of the will of the country but. to me it's the power of the decision making on the lowest level possible but each should not be based on the concept of individual it should be based on the concept of organic go communities that is different that is made of the individuals you know and why do they have to they have to be liberalism kind of things that community is something that goes after the individual so it is artificially create something from starting from individualism i am sure that the
community is beer or all the cultural core that defines everything and you come to every continent in the room so individualism and if you do is that purely liberal false your own house concept that is. dangerous because it trying to liberate individual from collective identity you have coming through artificial intelligence welcome into the cyber it's the humanization of the earth as you say even the liberals interpret liberalism in quite the same way and i suspect that you may be overestimating the power of liberal thought now it's true that a lot of liberals are in control of the international media but when you interact with people in western countries i'm pretty sure that they do not subscribe to the interpretation of liberals but rather than talking about that let me ask you about
something that i found very interesting in the egg and in the latest pew. speech also made a lot of headlines in russia and he said that we should stop treating russia like an old grandma and b. we should try to rejuvenate the country and i'm sure you heard a lot of people in russia say that we argue too much about history and the your are often a participant of those debates about history and we. argue too little about our future about how it should look like how do you read putin's phrase that we need to throw out everything that stands in the way off russia's new. new it's completely. the war without regard without. history history is not only the past. to concentrate over on the past because the past the present has no meaning and if the present we are living in the present where there is no leader.
could not give yourself that to be all our bearers of a certain cultural code yes that cultural even if you try to avoid it when you have concentrated it when you want cultural court as well to souls to safe reinforce. this cultural court and that is possible only if we are responsible for our history considers themselves to be historical being historic of people of the russian people of the use of their house the doe's of understanding of the history every day when they speech on television i mean there is no shortage. of soul quality and completely i would say they try to destroy our historical identity rather than talking about russian television though i think they have one more question i want to ask you because i think closely related to that idea of
a cultural code is the another idea of so-called traditional values and i especially in the russian context i think it's highly biggest because if you look at value surveys in russia russians traditionalist at all i mean we have the number of. divorces and abortions in russia is one of the hardest things i thought it was great no i don't think that's good but i think that's the reality if you look at the social behaviors russian women are much more likely to be or are as much likely to be breadwinners if not more than russian men russian men don't pay child support all that well so. what exactly do you mean by traditional values because when i look at the statistical data i don't see that much it's something deeper divorces or abortion. addition is practiced custom is something that makes us all tradition is. there will for the sacraments so we need to
understand that the war the world is something to separate separate this sector that it's a beautiful it's a beautiful idea a beautiful dream about why that was. all tradition succored has its own think other that is the presence of this spirit in our life and spirit is not only good because there are as well evil spirits but everything is a kind of leaving spirit trolls brutal cold a spiritual universe that is that should be respected as such not the nature of not only the moment but first a full the kind of what exactly does it mean in the russian context when you say that russia should stay true to the traditional values and by by that most people understand family relations relations between people and the only relations for the church the church is not only church over to our customs there's an old
cultural court. when tell it to a russian culture sekret and it will. we see that this sucker ignace is everywhere and anybody if you ask is nineteenth century a real living in. the twenty first century of what is do russian traditional values in these day in the traditional of well. they don't show. ages for example when they don't rooted even in the reality that is that what you are trying all realities should be rooted in the succored less of not wise were so for the russians the normal world that we quote accept that the sucker poor colonies was as well the floor during this a cruel ization over the last century westernization all over the last century to gain this sucker this debt was corrected for that may be extremists and what it the holy stick for but that what it for to restore what i may be.
normal terrible. this occurred over the b. and it is translated in the us with this form of collective collective reason well mr dick and we have to leave it there but i just want to add that at least in my view off to day case if not centuries of hardship i think the russian people deserve a little bit of material just russians anyway we'll have to agree to disagree on that i appreciate your being in our studio i think it's been a very interesting conversation and to our viewers please keep it going on our social media pages and i hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart.
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