tv Worlds Apart RT December 28, 2017 11:30pm-12:01am EST
the discussion of the future finally replays the debates over history to discuss that i'm now joined by russian philosopher and public intellectual alexander duke and mr duke it is great to talk to you thank you very much for your time. now one of the most common descriptions of you in western media is something along the lines that he sas what putin thinks i'm sure you wouldn't claim to be the case but i wonder to what extent do you believe your ideas about russia and its place in the world its place in history overlap with day d.s. currently prevalent in the kremlin i think that. explaining. because. it. doesn't the whole russian mud so. it's. the liberals who.
for being not so much western. specs. western so. well that may be unproductive but i'm not sure that the your interpretation or true of the of what russia is always even with people who don't describe themselves as liberals for example i consider myself a patriot but i take an issue with when you set for example the russians recognition of the universal declaration of human rights was a mistake that in russia we understand human rights as putin's rights or our rulers rights do you think that putting would actually agree with such from not that is not the problem of. the reality. i'm so soldiers. have written many books on so so. for us from. this current
there are. more or less modernized than the rest of us and that is the fall eighty two door the reality that for a phone. society deep. to work with call it is quite different from what our political elite including image and i think you may be contradicting yourself big because you said before and i heard it on several occasions that what putin is is not necessarily what he wants to be but what the russian people it is a required to be objective. this will be their leader oh expectations oh dreams and it is sometimes in. response to that answer for that and some times not so it is very important i have
written the book. so my idea that there are two points there is the individual. person or absolutely let me. ask you about putin as a function because i think putin is recent speeches especially since he announced his intention to run for another presidential term some of the most liberal in his very long political career for example he talked about rights and freedoms in russia as being values on par with patriotism not class he talked and i'm quoting him about liberalizing the russian legislature to broaden economic freedoms he may not identify himself as a liberal but he's conceptual apparatus is found a liberal than it was even a few years ago how do you explain that do you think the russian society is actually asking him to be more liberal no absolutely we don't care about. the liberalism because that is message directed. that is the kind of diplomatic step
or think because we have double hermeneutic or. for example we are speaking about what for example human rights first of all the concept of what is human is what are different in the west. the most basic human rights the right to live through the right to be treated equally and fairly by the law he would actually claim that the russian people do you know even if. there is a huge gap between the low and the troops that is that of them are relative. there's del all. over represents the troops moral troops think. mr you can i think this is not what i'm asking you about various you may say that the law doesn't raise up to the morality that's not what i'm asking you about
though there are many people who are concerns that the law is not practiced fairly so it's not only not rising enough to the morality but that they way it is applied is corrupt it is often not very just and so on and so forth don't you think that at least on the basic level the rule of the lawyer is the russian people that. has nothing to do with liberalism because liberal law or a low low order and withing that order is necessary order is necessary strong order and. absolutely not was this corruption that is. becoming huge now in russia but nothing to do with all that because if the law is the law below should burn a speck that. is. the situation is that the law isn't respected so deep in the corruption soul. that there isn't of corruption is liberalism because liberalism.
is was the reason to introduce speculation to. do you know i get it really has to have to do. as you don't feel i mean what i hope it all is it is the theft capitalism is absolutely unjust political system. and public and. social conduct and death wallace for the founding father of liberalism absolutely clear the first individual in morella to eat of course. personal profit individual profit is the basis was considered to be the basis all good for public good so the personal. i want you to telling me is that when people steal or when they demand a bribe or when they channel money out of the state budget they actually think that they a benefiting the idea that for ideological liberal reasons rather than organize liberalism
in the home and best way for that liberal it has opened the way for that because that's what that was a rehabilitation of the individualism and only. right and the individual should pursue its own agenda and profit so it leads to the corruption in our situation because we have forgotten of on the other points of mind because western liberalism is all for personal profit wisdom responsibility and we have forgotten the second part of the responsibility and accepted all one pot of liberalism so our awesome interpretation of liberalism is. one of the most important reasons of the reigning corruption and could not do it. during his. seventeen years through. he didn't change almost seemed. to
be yours so because he thinks that liberalism is the cure liberalism is the poison well i disagree with you on that just want to say. i want to ask you why one would think that you're also very passionate about and this is the issue of identity and this clash of individual versus collective identity you see the west as the champion of purely individual identity awareness russia is the appeared to me all collective identity and i would like to ask you not as a philosopher but as a sociologist by training. to support that by data because when i look at the number of volunteers in the west i don't think it supports your thesis that the west lacks collective identity the same thing for russia when you look at sutton the social and economic behaviors i think our people may come across as far more individualistic than in far western countries so what do you base the argument on
personal for one to understand the basic principle. and it starts with individualism and how what what exactly would support that why do you think that's the case and. if you deny that we are speaking in different universe if you don't agree with something so it was going for. the journalist i have to ask you what do you base your assumption on and please to. repeat the text i'm not sure about philosophers i'm asking you specifically about a date i referred that question to you as an. individual with the. philosophical concept we are speaking about individualism as a kind of part of. this has this the largest number of volunteers and a world people who still go to. collective identity they're
a completely different thing but they're related that. they have nothing to do whereas collective identity if you. decide to vie yourself to become all too there all go to concentrate on your own business that's all the this issue is taken on the level of deny the russians any right or any possibility of making those decisions you don't think that you as an individual make those decisions i think that the rushing towards us from. head is completely different. before we consider what is cumin our own what this. was a kind of result of dystonic what is the church so the money was the bought over the cool it's in the communities it's a huge market economies and in the common is the. sickle arised and that.
psychology so we are dealing with collective knowledge where where the collective is more than. i'm not disagreeing with the collective identity in russia is expressed in is stronger than in the west but i do think that they never exist in separation and what was interesting to me in the recent putin speech again is that he talked a lot about personal responsibility about. civil society in russia in bringing more people into governing russia don't you think that he himself is trying to dilute that collective identity that you've been talking about the toll i think that is very liberal i agree with the democratic but being crushed a leader. and the expectations of russia. of russians
of the majority of the russians and the majority of russia. doesn't want to liberal democratic leader we first of all wants to have a strong powerful and but to articulate that could restore. the glory of our country the independence and freedom for our society for our. state and that is the first demand after that the second amendment is not civil society is just social justice i think death. a cold place fulfills very well these bought into joe politics and the distorting celebrity and that is why he's so popular and why we support and keep but he. said. he hasn't done anything to it in order to restore social justice anything keep
yao's knows to. the salk of the poor old polish. grass cutting insisting that we did not in keeping him i am. i was to twenty list. because they had. passed that. kind you. could talk or knew what it would be it's not but when you don't need you to brush it off don't you. oh. yeah so yes man is only one massive shock passed i. don't know. if you from my jewish pretty much just think that if you're miscasting discussed the custos threatening just turn over young.
welcome back to worlds apart with russian philosopher and public intellectual alexander duke and mr duggan just before the break we started talking about the very peculiar relation that the russian people have with power and you stated that you believe that the russian people are in need and he they have a historic need for a stronger leader and i think. difficult to be argued with but i also think that there is a tendency on the part of the russian people to assume more responsibility for running for running their own country and i think. i please from my perspective i
can see the signs of it in many. years of our economy of our social life etc now you've argued that the asian eurasian civilization as you see it is based on very strict hierarchy on. a rather than horizontal social organization and i think that may have been sustainable in the when you know you have the control of the media when you have very little transparency about what is going up in the governing circles but do you think that could be maintained in the information age i think that's informational is projects from all of the western european concept or what this information what is progress what this site. on liberal ideals are so information. is not something neutral something. in the something. spontaneous it is the blends so the conspiracy why use this word.
between. i see the future explained exactly conspiracist it's not negative i'm in they know it's negative it sounds a bit jerky of zero. to discount any guy and go for. argument's dispatch if i affirm that the men decide. his future or your money think it prepare your intellect to read before it happens is not conspiracy well. it's humanism well i mean we are all entitled to a point of view your earlier called for the internet to be banned and i think it's quite clear that it's not happening in russia any time soon but if you believe in the validity in this strength let alone the sort of divine nature of the ideas why would you want to limit this is not nothing to do with the ideas. idea that the
nature of idea is something that the rules deny it was the beginning of the mother the mother to. destroy or the concept of idea and they think that. so it's all for you mind ideas about the original and distinct do something completely different and some think like an angel or divinity that's something that exists eternally and isn't independent from the. fellow human so tries to gris ideas does reflect to be mirror over and that is the sense of idea and that's constant has nothing to do was informational because information age it is exchange or information that is considered to be normal if not biased but it is biased by the.
but. i do respect your here at this channel was created to project an ill turn it of point of view and there are many similar channels in other countries i know you speak to the inter kid there is a similar channel in france there is similar channel in china so we can i think agree that there is no more monopoly at least when it comes to the international information what i was asking you about the information age is because centered around the thought of transparency what allow people to in my view at least would allow people to take a much more active role in deciding their own destiny you perhaps view it as again an individualistic. thing but why does it have to be in contradiction with the collective identity i don't understand why do you have to make it so binary you can be in a patriot of your country you can understand the history of your country but you
can still assume that i as an individual don't want some person in the kremlin to decide everything i'm going to take the responsibility for my own life and for my own country what's wrong with absolutely nothing more than that. of the potters among democracy i. think that the most. liberal democracy when we are speaking about democracy. only democracy spoken was for example and although it's. come first that. liberal democracy is the power over the north. of majority more than that that is the power of minority the minority is directed. to zurich. organic maybe hierarchical so.
this understanding of liberal democracy. democracy in its original sense so i think that in the kremlin sure taken decisions concerning only global aspects for example nuclear or diplomatic relations this other contra go spec don't spect of the will of the country but. to me it's the power of the decision making on the lowest level possible but each should not be based on the concept of individual it should be based on the concept of organic go communities that is different which is made of the individuals you know and why do they have to they have to be. things that community is something that goes after the individual so it is artificially create something
from starting from individualism i am sure that the community is beer or all the cultural core that defines everything and you come to every continent in the room so individualism and if you do is that purely liberal false your own concept that is. dangerous because it trying to liberate. people from collective i didn't get you at government to artificial intelligence welcome into the cyber. humanisation you say even the liberals interpret liberalism in quite the same way and i suspect that you may be overestimating the power of liberal thought now it's true that a lot of liberals are in control of the international media but when you interact with people in western countries i'm pretty sure that they do not subscribe to that interpretation of liberals but rather than talking about that let me ask you about
something that i found very interesting in the gannon the latest be. speech also made a lot of headlines in russia and he said that we should stop treating russia like an old grandma and b we should try to rejuvenate the country and i'm sure you heard a lot of people in russia say that we argue too much about history and the your are often the participants of those debates about history and we. argue too little about our future about how it should look like how do you read putin's phrase that we need to throw out everything that stands in the way off russia's new to the new it's completely. the the war without. without meaning if we put aside the history history is not only the past. to concentrate over on the past because the past the present has no meaning and if the present we are
living in the present where there is no. could not give yourself that to be all our bearers of a certain cultural code yes that cultural even if you try to avoid it when you have concentrated it when it's a cultural court as well the soul when it's safe or in force. this cultural court and that is possible only if we are responsible for our history consider themselves to be historical being historic of people of the russian people receive their house they doze of understanding of the history every day when they speech on television i mean there is no shortage. of soul quality and completely i would say they try to destroy our historical identity rather than talking about russian television though i think they have one more question i want to ask you because i think closely
related to that idea of a cultural code is the another idea of so-called traditional values and i especially in the russian context i think it's highly biggest because if you look at value surveys in russia russians traditionalist at all i mean we have the number of. divorces and abortions in russia is one of the hardest. for the great no i don't think that's good but i think that's the reality if you look at the social behaviors russian women are much more likely to be like are as much likely to be breadwinners if not more than russian men russian men don't pay child support all that well so. what exactly do you mean by traditional values because when i look at the statistical data i don't see that much it's something deeper divorce was. their decision is prime just cost them something that makes us all tradition is.
the will for the sacraments so we need to understand that the war the world as something separate separate. it's a beautiful it's a beautiful idea a beautiful dream about why that was. what i have long known all of us all tradition the sucker that has its own think other that is the presence of this spirit in our life and spirit is not only good because there are as well evil spirits but everything is a kind of leaving spirit trolls brutal cold a spiritual universe that is that should be respected as such not the nature not only the man but first a full the kind of what is that doesn't mean in the russian context when you say that russia should stay true to the traditional values and by by that most people understand family relations relations between people and the only relations for the church the church is not only church our to our customs our.
cultural court. tell it to your russian culture crypt and it will. we see that this sucker ignace is everywhere and any place where you ask is nineteenth century a real living. the twenty first century of what is do russian traditional values in these day in the traditional of well. they don't show. ages for example would they then go through to even the reality that is that what you're trying to realities should be rooted in the succored less of multiplies worse and so for russians the normal world that we quote accept that the subtle world colonies was as well the floor during this a cruel ization over the last century westernization all over the over the last century to gain this sucker this debt was corrected for that may be extremist and when it least stick
a fork but that was it for to restore what i may be. normal terrible. this occurred over the b. and it is translated in the us with this for a collective collective reason well mr dickon we have to leave it there but i just want to add that at least in my view off to day case if not centuries of hardship i think the russian people deserve a little bit of material cost. anyway they will have to agree to disagree on that i appreciate your being in our studio i think it's been very interesting conversation and to our viewers please keep it going on our social media pages and i hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart. from.
a robot governments can be much more russia or lots more. the. oligarchic heeling government. says straight people will be more happy with the new situation than they are with the will because. this is the last edition of cross talk for the year and we're doing something different questions from you our viewers.
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