hello and welcome to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle the biggest political hoax in american history russia gate is almost a thing of the past bragg's it on the other hand only seems to drop into deeper levels of purgatory and what is next for russia's relations with the west. across talking some real news i'm joined by my guest here in moscow grandees and he is a professor at the higher school of economics as well as author of russia's geo economic strategy for a greater eurasia and in brussels in fact that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate and let me go to you first here i was look i don't usually read the washington post but someone sent me an article so i felt obliged to read it titled as material confronts a crisis russia's footprint in venezuela grows and then there's

a very bizarre paragraph and this is how i want to start this segment here in an era of generally warming ties between the trumpet ministration of moscow russia is deepening its involvement in venezuela so when so and so and so you know i didn't know relations were on the up and up and really what i want to talk about is that is anything going to change in the post. or world after this report that was released on what i've called all along as a hoax here is there any future a positive future for russia's relations with the united states and with the western world of course including the european union as we move forward go ahead any. well i think post miller there is a chance and certainly gave many former intelligence officers diplomats military people around the world hope when trump was the president elect over two years ago was the fact that he wanted to recalibrate relations with russia and also try and work with them to sort out the mess in the middle east so whatever people in america might think of their american president to the rest of the world the chance

of peace breaking out looked at its highest for a long time then of course we had this deep state hoax as you call it and i would entirely agree trying to show that there was russian collusion even the four president trump was actually inaugurated and this was multiplied time and time and time again by the american legacy press all based on unsourced intelligence on quotes from unknown people and it was metastasized into the known new facts about russian collusion so i took a lot of hope from the fact that moonless report apparently shows there was no russian collusion what gives me a slight distress though at this point is that it appears over the last two years because of the pressure of this investigation president trump has to a certain extent corralled into any possible maneuvers he might have with russia in the future so i think there's a very delicate path for him to tread if he wants to try and free himself from the the hands of the deep state and of course one of the thing we need to remember is

that even though the democratic party and the reports that came from that were funded by them by the former my six intelligence officer christopher steele now been debunked suddenly the democratic party is now trying to focus on trump's finances they will not give up so he's still going to be under pressure and there's still going to be reasons why the state will keep him in their claws yes but you know glenn we've seen we've seen a wave of saying sions as a result of this so the predicate of the sanctions was we hope with the hopes the hoax and so the engines will stay i mean you don't. undo those things very easily and it seems to me of course the united states has said that it will still it still has not considered the sanctions that will ply as a result of this scrap all case so sanctions we main on course here and i don't see really any political will within. the deep state as we're calling it now for better

relations with russia i mean look at trump's reaction to a sovereign country named venezuela asking for help from another sovereign country russia this is made pompei o and it's made john bolton livid. and i think in the ideal world you would see the united states say listen we made a mistake let's walk it back and fix relations about obviously i don't think that's going to happen. the democrats himself a bit put in a quite a difficult situation although because they have been pushing this conspiracy theory now for two years and after peddling the same conspiracy theory two years. well i mean really difficult position when you say. it is it is embarrassing but the sixteen say listen we misread the situation let's start all over again i don't think it's possible i think too many of the political elites invested too much of their careers into into this conspiracy theory so simply saying it was

a mistake i don't think it's possible anymore and furthermore i don't. they have elections coming up you know and what can really do because this conspiracy theory kind of sucked out all the oxygen in the room i mean everything they've been talking about for two years has been this conspiracy theory and everything they're talking about is the trump card and everything is about trump so i don't really know. i don't see that there's a political will hear any let me go back to you you said something earlier and you're answer there was no collusion this is what the report says however if you look at bars for page so nops is there is. it is clearly stated that russia quote unquote meddled in the two thousand and sixteen election and this is what paul sides everybody i mean even if you watch fox news they will repeat it as well even though they're carrying water. for a media hearing wanted for trump all the time so what i'm saying is it's now it's part of the genetic code of the political discourse that russia is

a threat to the united states a threat to quote unquote democracy i suppose not bernie sanders would have a different opinion but anyway so i'm what i'm saying is it's part it's in the mix now ok. yes it has in fact been established as fact because it's been reported enough i mean it's the old truism isn't it if you repeat a lie enough times it becomes the truth that is what has happened here and we have a situation where according to facebook there was some sort of fake accounts that were developed by russia which had minimal impact on the american election what we do know for fact is that a british company cambridge analysts occur was data scraping off facebook and sending targeted adverts to people across america they had far more impact i think on the american elections so you know you could just as well say that the u.k. had the american elections and this is a time of an argument we've heard emanuel macron of france saying his emails were hacked it must be the russians turned out not to be we've had anger merkel in the run up to the elections last year saying oh are elections going to be hacked by the

russians she set the be indeed the equivalent of the cia to investigate this and they came back saying there is no evidence of things so she just told them to go out and find some evidence and you know we've had allegations about breaks it we're having current allegations at the moment in brussels about the e.u. concerned about russian hacking in the upcoming elections next month so this goes on and on and on based on the full there's it evolved out of the american presidential election in twenty sixteen and this manipulation this fake news are very. very useful for the passersby because it gives them. another excuse to try and crackdown a censor the internet and that's what we're seeing across europe and that meant that you know any brings up a really good point this is the cultural that they use to limit speech basically limiting the speech of people that are on the political right in the case in europe so-called populist movements this is this is

a very powerful straight and effective strategy because this gives the it rationalizes limiting freedom of speech and going after these social networks yes i think all of this going to be very harmful for democracy and again this is very problematic cause what's brilliant with democracy is this it's a very dynamic form of political governance to you know it's a good way of ducting to change the nation so often we find that the problem of our an enemy of the marxist tends to be a lot of this ideology and we call them have political dogma switch a country leave challenge and i think one of them are simply been see russia remains our adversaries so to point out if if there is no evidence. we have to go out and look for it and i think. for this reason nothing really is going to change especially with the smaller report because what i've seen since it came out swaths sort of things like are perhaps smaller thing on it you know the conspiracy could

include him it's really big or before we need the full report or even. it doesn't prove that trump is guilty but on the other hand it doesn't prove his innocence either so. he is guilty until proven innocent so this it's a very strange well this is what trump here we go back to any here i suppose. the nato leaders donald trump the head is already spoken with the brazilian president maybe brazil will become part of nato colombia has already expressed their i mean you know if russia isn't enough or maybe there is not enough collusion the russians are not as. meddling as well. spare me maybe you can turn south we can look south to continue reason to exist because it doesn't expand it collapses go ahead amie. absolutely and we've seen nato trying to justify its existence over the last couple of years ever since trump was president elect it's

interesting as well over the last few months that the emphasis has shifted slightly towards china you know with the amp trade wars with china and suddenly china is the big hacker country not russia so what we saw geopolitical shift is very interesting i do want to pull back to one particular point though when it comes to the western response to the moon report because the key figure in this as i can see it is a former and i six intelligence officer christopher steele who runs a company called orbis business intelligence now he was the author allegedly of the dirty dossier you know all those scurrilous rumors about what trump got up to when he was organizing this universe in moscow years ago and it was a very poor reports that was easily debunked but it turns out as well that that is a connection to the script whole case in the u.k. because another former colleague is a man called pavlo miller who's been protected by censorship by the dean otis in the u.k. who allegedly was also script old he was the recruiter who got him out got him to

betray russia so you have this linkage both through business and through the official spy agencies between crystal steele and the democratic party make up these lies funding these lies about trump and then suddenly we have this very unusual case of alleged overtop poisoning in the u.k. against cripple and the key linchpin between these two stories which have been used and abused to try and alienates and stigmatize russia tends to be this one by company or based business and. still apparently has gone to the heather ok we're out of time convinced that was the u.k. that hacked the american election. thank you for joining us we're going to go to a short break right now and after that short break we'll continue our discussion and some real news stay with.

you know what i was going to do next the ball different clubs on one hand it is logical to go from fields where everything is familiar on the other i wanted a new challenge and a fresh perspective i'm used to surprising and i saw one on t.v. . i'm going to talk about football not the or else you can think i was going to go. by the way ways of the slide here. and. their brains for a single purpose. they have a superman. they start training very young.

eight months of intensive school. raps. and they save lives. welcome back across like we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle reminder we're discussing some real news. ok let's change gears here i want to talk a little bit about brags that here. glenn you know we're not in the u.k. all right we're not suffering the purgatory as i mentioned in my introduction of the brig's that phenomenon here but for two people you and i sitting in the studio here looking a far it seems to me that really what has happened is just a leadership failure by the political class because you off the perch here it seems

to be a constitutional democratic crisis because there was a vote it's very clear but the political class has failed to deliver. so well from my interpretation of bricks it's kind of reflects a lot of the same problems you're having in the united states with trumper across syria which is. a growing rift between the political establishment which have committed themselves to certain political dog must and you have the population which have been drifting further and further away from this now i think the reason why brics it fits within this theme is because the political elites never wanted to leave the you of course there was david cameron who gambled on that but again the first rule of gambling is you know shouldn't gamble if you can't afford to lose but you know he just wanted to bring the conservative party back in to get over this divisive element but i think. that the problem to have now is another have to actually deliver breaks it. well is short they don't want to and i guess.

you know there's a bit of look at me at any any but i it's it's it's completely it least to me it's completely transparent that they don't want to leave they have invented things they've. gone back procedural law and precedent and that they keep doing all of these things or i mean i'm a political political junkie like everyone else watching this program but once once i'm beginning to get confused and i'm beginning to get worried i mean it's obviously i mean if you look at the speaker of the house of commons i mean he's obviously a remainder i mean there's there is no he doesn't show any cutting. kind of dispassionate i mean he's the most passionate guy in the room goes to the time which i've never seen before it's obvious the political class doesn't want to leave and this is why i can i will not stop talking about the democrat democratic deficit because we have the european parliamentary elections coming up and again that issue of the deficit in democracy is going to be addressed and i think people are going

to go if this may be the one time they ever go out and vote because people are getting more and more angry that the the elites are not solving problems that people think need to be solved and he go ahead. i absolutely agree i think this was definitely a protest vote after years of blatant corruption that never went it was never held accountable most notably with the run up to the iraq war in the lies that were told to parliament and to the people also there was the m.p.'s expenses scandal ten years ago which apparently got worse since then they haven't learned their lessons so the disconnect the democratic deficit as you mention has become a gaping chasm in the u.k. at the moment and the political elite will just not understand it so david cameron tried to tweak the system he was rebuffed in brussels and went back with no result when he tried to reject the relationship in twenty fifteen twenty sixteen and suddenly of course he had to call

a referendum not really because he had any faith in democracy or the people or anything like that but to try and merge the two antagonistic sides of the conservative party right in the u.k. there have been at loggerheads since the one nine hundred eighty s. that's all he was trying to do it had nothing to do with democracy it had nothing to do with europe it was just trying to provide cohesion to his political party the irony being of course that they got a result they completely did not expect it was a protest vote it was the biggest democratic vote in the entirety of u.k. history and now it is being ignored so it is sundering not only the conservative party in parliament it is broken the people's trust from whichever side remain or breakfast here in the parliamentary process i mean the whole thing has been staged the whole thing people keep talking about all the demonstrations on the u.k. streets from one side or the other and there's damn little coverage of the. demonstrations in france in english speaking media that's actually far more important and yet we still have a manual macro on the french president lecturing britain about the state of its

democracy you know what we have these european parliamentary elections coming up and we want muslims who are going to our learned or not learned in watching this brigs that process because you know the way the ring was out. medias is portrayed this is that you know it's it's to resume has been a very. strategic and. tactful in dealing with brussels but brussels is like a mailed fist ok they are making this really really hard and this is a message to everyone else in the european union don't mess with brussels and when you're in it's hotel california once you check in you can never check out and you will feel i am serious and you will do you have the pain if you challenge the dictates coming out of brussels. near the negotiator on the e.u. side he probably slip of the tongue but he can reveal this in one of his interviews with a french paper as well that the. outcome of the british election of the ascension

of the negotiation i have two purposes one to get a favor of agreement with the british but the second would also be to deter anyone else from trying to follow this so so obviously this has affected the negotiations at the vicomte well if they if the british leave on the good terms and end up doing better on the outside i think that will be allowed good terms or no i don't think so and you would think they would all it will it won't be and i think what makes even more problematic correctly pointed out they have. the political elites in britain have more or less been to some extent on the side of brussels long they don't want to leave either so what i found fascinating was there's a lot of reasonable arguments both to stay in the e.u. and to leave and this was all being debated up to the referendum now after a friend and the same debates began continued but now essentially instead of being you know we have to compete for the people's voice now at the debate is whether or not the people voted wrong. but both sides are doing this officer sitting in

a sort of article forty of a second right now we're going to revoke the electorate that would make it really feel needed ok let me go and get the running out of time now that i'm serious i'd say that i'm in shape but i think. there is an element of truth to it and i think the biggest thing biggest question i've had during this long just where everyone down with all the scare mongering as you know the cherry on top of a cake there i think is it possible because a lot of people tell me she isn't that bright and she wouldn't be able to pull it off go ahead and. i think that people believed when david cameron was scaremongering in the run up to the referendum that if he lost then he would immediately invoke article fifty and then he just resigned and then he ran away from the whole mess and theories may really try to pick up the pieces and i'm not sure if she really had the momentum behind her the the will to enforce breaks it she was a remainer so that's where a lot of this mess comes from and then she did it about invoking article fifty and

it allowed the easy get their ducks in a row and put together the negotiation position and make sure all the other twenty seven countries were lined so the u.k. went into a very poor hand anyway and with by taking away the option of no deal she lost her key negotiator point so it's been a mess every which way but when it comes to referenda and let's not forget the irish the maastricht treaty so did the darts so did the danish and they were all told to go back and have another vote because they got the result wrong that's what they're trying to do in the u.k. so the notion that if your vote makes a difference the politicians and the elite when to allow it to happen i think has been proven time and time again across the e.u. and i think we're heading towards that situation yet again in the u.k. you know but any i must say with you here people there is a talk of the people's vote here and with doesn't that the message that you just spoke about here is that it's not really the result it's you have to have a process the gets the correct result according to brussels and so obviously in the

case of briggs that didn't happen you know but doesn't it really. lessen the value of elections themselves if you have to keep repeating them over and over again. absolutely and it breaks the trust between the government and the government so this is a crisis i think we're going to see building across europe not just in the u.k. but with other so-called populist movements in the world populist is used as if it's an insult yes in fact surely that's just mean of the people. yeah you know glenn you know i'm glad and he says that because you know it's very difficult to define populism it's more about process it is the active visitation of people here because you can have populism all across the political spectrum here but the media is demonized it is being fringe or all. seditious even here and i think again we have this kind of trump effect the more you insult the people like

the media. supporters of trump you know the smell the wal-mart people or hillary clinton's deplorable the more you speak to people like that the more they are willing to take a chance ok go ahead. that's actively what defines populist often they're willing to bring up the topics which elites refuse to address you know sometimes the populous are good sometimes bad sometimes have solutions sometimes to don't but it's you have to put into context of the post cold war system of her i mean we have a few. few things we can't really challenge so in europe it would be that the e.u. is the main format for organizing european affairs but you also have the neo liberal economics you have a mass migration multiculturalism and then you have the humanitarian and interventionism the general assumption you can solve everything with military now. when someone challenges like this establishment can't really challenge any of these things so that essentially leaves a huge or growing scope for so-called

a populous to step in because they're willing to address this i mean we through member for example trump coming during the election he would say things like well what's the point of nato to do this overdoing is gone or why do we start new wars when you don't finish the old ones it was treasonous it will stay mostly how could you possibly say anything like this in the wall and we saw you. know the new the new liberal system how is races but it's not just on the right like here in the u.s. you have people governor now who comes up on the left saying listen maybe the oldest wars. it's not a great idea and now she's now apologists for assad you know russian agents you know they already label her this thing so i think that this is why you have the populist they they arrive well they come back and they say what's on a lot of people's minds ok it goes back to the first part of the program here when people start speaking their mind there is people in power that want to limit that speech and narrow it here as all the time we have here many thanks to my guests

here in moscow and in brussels and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember. when we all make this manufacturer come sentenced to public wealth. when the ruling class is protect themselves. with the final merry go round certainly the one percent. we can all middle of the room six. million.

i think the number. they've matter to us is over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crime families. eighty five percent of global wealth he longs to be ultra rich eight percent world market thirty percent some with one hundred five hundred three first second per second and we rose to. twenty thousand dollars. china's building two point one billion dollars a.r.u. industrial park but don't let the numbers will be. the only number you need to remember one one business you know ford commit one in only one book.

and there was a crack seems to do crack when i was a little kid my dad he was like oh. so you know like what i needed when i was a baby but i had a bad childhood. there's always playing single mothers and african-american community service and slavery. i think it's more of these teenagers having kids. you can expect a fourteen or fifteen year old first daughter now ordered. lost our place and. my car end up breaking down and i was unable to get to work on time sunday let me go with my paycheck that i bring home i have nearly enough to pay my car insurance . gas in my car. i mean more do good is an outstanding person because he took on the most powerful

agency in this county for you to state if you look at it from a book on knowledge of. mark was the day that when he was five but the life mmog do going to spin the sheer isthmus contentious critically is the first time i noticed something wasn't in place were pretty much when i first started the corruption in palm beach county is not something that you can smell a thing like that it's a nod and a wink. isn't what i wanted to do. we've had more in this county then some states have had collectively. begun featuring. the sheriff might. wash you like a bug you know we should stop then you should say and i'm left with stuff i believe what i'm doing ok you know it's your funeral. critic

in this house. i snuck out of the united states. into russia political. men they know. the headlines from all this monday morning facebook calls for global internet rules and for governments to play active role in regulating. the media. he leads the polls in the first round of ukraine's presidential elections so far he's taken thirty percent of the vote we're following. police in the u.s. released video of the fatal shooting of a black american he was hitting these cars twenty five times.

over a good morning my name is kevin i mean this is a internationalist.