tv Cross Talk RT May 24, 2019 4:30am-5:01am EDT
hello and welcome to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle it was only days ago we were told the u.s. was preparing to strike iran for nonspecific reasons to deter specific threats then the narrative simply disappeared into thin air just exactly what is the trumpet ministrations policy regarding iran and where is trump in all of this. cross talking iran i'm joined by my guest in washington he is a policy analyst at the arab center washington d.c. and fran we have mohammad marandi he's a professor at the university of toronto and in philadelphia we cross today lindorff he is an independent journalist with a long experience covering u.s. military as well as founder of the news site this can't be happening dot net our rules in effect that means you can. jump in anytime you want i always appreciate
mohamed let me go to you 1st internet on and i'm typing this program nonspecific around there's been a lot of nonspecific stuff being bandied about a lot of threats maybe a lot of bluffs and a lot of people are nervous a lot of bluster out there so what is the nonspecific threat coming from the country in which you reside for i'm in it against the united states what could you define it because nobody in power can define what would specifically is going on except for there is a lot of hype go ahead mom and i think it's the same question that people are asking here as well the united states we hear that. there was something a rocket fired at the u.s. embassy and turns out it was like 3 kilometers away and then within hours iran is accused of carrying out i think it's by the obvious that. anyone in that iran has no motive to do such a thing it doesn't gain anything by doing such
a thing and i think the americans you quite well that have nothing to the iran with iran where it's probably some sort of operation carried out by some elements or a cell within isis with so the. but. the mood in tehran is that. and from the very beginning more or less except for some people was that the chance for military. has always been very low because i think the iranians . have stated to the americans on numerous occasions that if you strike iran we will strike back hard and the persian gulf region is a very sensitive region although oil and gas insulations are very vulnerable. the oil and gas installations will be as well as anchors will be destroyed and in the crossfire and that with the to global economic catastrophe and there is nothing
that can attack anyone who sloan over the persian gulf region knows quite well that there is it's absolutely impossible for a few ships or an aircraft carrier to protect such insulation yeah more so if the saudis out the americans or any other country helps the americans then they will have to face retaliation from iran so that would lead to an old global economic catastrophe you have a degree in the me go to dave in philadelphia doesn't mean you can't have fantasies and want to live them out i'm thinking of john bolton here dave i mean can you kind of put into a nutshell what what the administration's policy is towards iran i mean even trump glibly it was a few days ago he said well nothing's happening we don't expect anything to happen so what was the last 3 or 4 weeks all about dave go ahead in philadelphia. it's pretty hard to figure in oh i've been looking at this and scratching my head which isn't good because i don't have any here and so you know it leaves marks. you know
trump and so the only thing trying to spin consistent on is saying that obama made the world's worst deal with erin on the nuclear fuel enrichment agreement. which the u.s. of course is always expanded into you know a huge agreement that iran is supposedly violating the terms of. but you know aside from that he's totally inconsistent he's talked about bombing iraq until it doesn't exist he's talked about wanting to strike a great deal with the rand you know he's back and forth. and what i think has happened is that he's farmed out his foreign policy to bolton then pompei oh and by then bolton is a crazy man who has for years had this ambition to be in charge and i think he's actually overstepped his authority enormously ordering an aircraft
carrier out you know i don't think that was trump that so it's a pretty weird you know what is what is a little scary what is the place of a national security adviser to be ordering aircraft carrier task groups around never heard that i thought he gave advice let's let's go to joe here i mean joe joe what is there were death rate the name of the title is the adviser yeah that's what i'm getting at here let me go to joe in washington here he says there is there any rhyme or reason to this because he could always go back and say the more you confuse your adversaries the more you know it's to your advantage i mean you know the whole nixon madman analogy here i tend to think that's not in play i tend used the word outsource trump is outsourcing this policy here and basically saying do whatever you want but don't get me into a war because i want to be reelected go ahead jo in washington. i mean obviously this is a decision it's a different approach on iran recently there was more to call sort of
a difficult. between bolton political and other so there was a big push on sanction. breaking point the problem there was little communication lines between watched on thought i mean more so there was a lot of miscalculations in that sense there was a report from the intelligence that came to to the white hose it seems well to exaggerate to the routine in. there was information that came and then i don't think he personally only took the decision off as it was induced by the white house but he claimed that in the new york times story and then after the things got out of control there was a lot of miscalculations from both sides and trump eventually put some more about what's on what i was pushing what is being other things into perspective what what is the other side you said both sides miscalculated what sides are you talking about. iran is definitely not in the red in iran and how do they do that how did they miscalculate. well little assumptions always in in
to her on the part of the regime she is true to the invasion maybe. they thought there would be more pressure now on them so we thought what happened and the whole seize the rockets and so the arabia so there was some little bit of messages that the iranians feel under sanction under the strain so they've been trying to basically send the message to washington and elsewhere that we can basically they tell you what the end of the day both sides cannot go to war in iran the traditional military is weak to face the us they have a big economic crisis also here in washington we are going to go out of the political crisis we have the election coming coming over there they want to protect the troops in iraq. they're trying to distort each other so they basically throw it to the logical war with played with media and it's a this is where we get to do miscalculations not yeah but it seems to me one side is more proactive in the you have the right think everyone would agree with that i
don't see iran starting out with threats what it's doing is reacting it was go back to mohammed in in town it's seems to me that again if you look at what is important to trump obviously the israeli lobby is important to him in donors in the united states as he goes into the election campaign and he always seems to want to bend over backwards for the saudis so he made the israelis and the saudis in some donors happy that's the only thing the kind of logical thing i can draw out of all of this going head mahmut into. yes i think we have different voices coming out of the white house. in our face. of course. sinus speaks of the rapture than. i've seen in american supremacy 2 as a grudge against iran or anyone who's ever opposed american policy i personally. so i don't think that iran has miscalculated i think that the strikes carried out
by on saddam a lot of the houthi using yemen is a ongoing war between saudi arabia and yemen the saudis are starving the country and as time goes by the yemen the resistance the government the state the army and the whole of these they are becoming more sophisticated and in their capability of striking. things so i wouldn't let him. go go ahead joe jump in go ahead. no i don't i don't they would never strike without that under consent would never strike this is very critical. it's very clear and this is a subtle iranian message which we understand spoke of what's going on between the 2 but you cannot tell me that it's the hosts on their own that decided one day to strike inside saudi arabia of the oil for what evidence do you have of that joe what evidence do you have i think that they couldn't have those weapons with both
with vote with those iranian support 2nd at this level and this moment of tensions between the 2 doesn't come across just the regular regular. regular message of the regular routine operation i mean i cannot confess i will i don't have well i have to for sure well i am an enemy to him and holding you know when you me when you make an argument evidence is a kind of helpful don't you think dave you want to jump in there in philadelphia go ahead yeah i'm going to say i think that if the iranians have miscalculated to me the miscalculation that they make is when they make you know these. threats against the u.s. you know that you know will destroy your your military whatever you know the have these these set phrases that they're going to get the united states and punish us badly. which maybe they could do maybe not i don't problem with don't you they're thinking they are days don't you think in the well let me finish let me finish you
know united. in the united states the american people the american people react very badly to being told that we're going to wipe you out you know and it it hands then i don't think they realize what that hints to the right in in the government to trump to the republicans in congress and even to many democrats in congress react very badly to these you know over the top threats to the u.s. if you do this we'll do that well and i. it doesn't it doesn't advance the cause when they do that ok well you know the same did it set in the same to me yeah i well i think that's that's for now i think i hear you on cringe when i hear that and i think when i the united states does it all of the time it hasn't in decades of history of making those kind of oh no i'm not adequate now do you saying it's not understandable i k i'm going to jump in here guys we're going to go to where you stand out in that short break we'll continue our discussion on the run stay with us.
ok it's go back to joe in washington. after the aircraft carrier abraham lincoln was sent to the gulf and they then these numbers were bandied around 120000 troops and then that kind of story fizzled their craft carrier still there and now they're talking about 10000 troops need to be sent to the region they're not saying where or why what would 10000 troops to i mean it seems to me this is just messaging what is the message that the white house is sending out because everything is nonspecific it's that's why it's difficult for is a kind of connecting the dots because there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason except for when it comes to iran domestic domestic politics and in the u.s. domestic politics as well so why is this in the media dribbling this out to us what kind of message were supposed to come what kind of conclusion are we supposed to come to joe go ahead. i mean this should be
a specific conclusion as i said this psychological war and some sense they want to show they are they are flexing their muscles they are serious about what's happening and they want to bring it on basically to let a bit of a political issue to negotiation table eventually and this is the ultimate goal intro know what's happening you know the proxy war basically between the u.s. and europe it's not like we came out of nothing here in the u.s. and syria and iraq and yemen you don't want to see it in yemen you'll be a lot of evidence is basically of the organ support there obviously they're surviving competition for for influence and that will change they want to bring them back to life again what is what is your evidence for the both of them on what is your evidence for that to everybody so it's a sound bite i hear all the time but nobody likes to really sit down and give the evidence i let me go to mohamed here mamma what is near brilliance of that moment in norad you always got me over i did not look well i mean what was your ideas here to be i mean i'll state my trivial ok go ahead muhammad. i understand joe's
argument. but. the difference between iran and the united states and iran and saudi arabia is that the americans have oxys in the region the saudis have oxys but they think that therefore iran's role in the region is the same and therefore they see you ron's allies as proxies and that's simply not the case the reason why iran's allies in the in the region are what they like to call the resistance are so successful is because they have a relationship that is not top to bottom the houthi is don't or i'm sort of not doesn't get orders from teheran they are fighting their war but they see that you're on ian's on their side as the united states and the europeans are helping the saudis. bring about starvation and they see that the only one of the few countries that is signing with them sincerely is the iranians or in the case of
syria or iraq or lebanon i have to say the case there is no the issue is not money because the other side doesn't generally want points the other side the saudis the americans have infinitely their wealth is infinitely greater than iran pulled together their resources are infinitely greater but they failed across the border they failed in syria they failed in iraq they failed in that and on the yemen and that's simply in my opinion because these are not iranian proxies because they are people who feel that an unjust head germany has ruled over them for so long and has destroyed their countries and their lives and they are resisting and they see ron is on their side so i don't see i don't believe at all that iran gives orders to hezbollah or the hokies but i do indeed believe that they have a very close relationship with iraq and with the hashish i.v. with the mobilization popular mobilization in iraq and so on i think that's the
case but i don't see them as proxies and i think that's one reason why the americans are always miscalculated. dave in philadelphia you want to jump in go ahead i would i would like to enter yeah i have been suspicious all along a bit you know i have no doubt that iran is sympathetic with the who tease and may coordinate things with them when they can but you know i'm very suspicious when they hear that erin is supplying the who tease with advanced weapons to attack the saudis because if you look at the map. there's no connection between iran and yemen in any direction and the u.s. has so many satellites over that area planes flying everywhere blockaded craft carried carriers destroyers with radar a blockade and if they were shipping large rockets to yemen. then we are after all these years of this civil war going on and we're from
saudi arabia and yemen where is the capture of these same people who has intelligence who enters this irrational how this is ok it's not a hassle and learn ok that joe jump in washington go ahead joe. no i mean. but there's been u.s. intelligence about this for 40 years especially for the obama years the things that are going through a month but no cash or and captures no destruction of the trance it. you know it's all along the every action in lebanon or in iraq i had to stand i said i agree with pummeled said regarding the picture and how the delicious racial get on with the proceeds but my problem is we cannot deny that there are mixed messages we are getting from you haven't you had some was rolled from what they had and then launching of the weapons at the same time before the battle talking to us mediation basically in lebanon to the israelis so yes i mean there are mixed messages coming
coming from iran and again the study of this thing going on saudi arabia didn't get it it could not be understand with the context of the us american tension the timing was very clear at this moment after what happened in the new york times and the tension between the 2 doesn't mean it's very obvious even hezbollah said that clearly if you don't is under attack we're going to come and help them so yes and also us approx is serving us interests of the saudi proxies even the little and the weak and inefficient also that are trying to serve saudi interests so there is this war going on and denying that there is that the us out of nothing just lunch all of this. issues is not accurate yes bolton is a doing of the. it is not i think but now it is back channels now and we are trying to as we have to let me and evidence we have plenty go ahead dave go ahead we have
plenty of evidence of us. over and over if we find evidence of u.s. weapons being used against the who he is and the yemeni people buy of american weapons you see them exploded then they show the pictures of the parts with u.s. labels on them in serial numbers and everything we don't get the evidence of iranian weapons being fired at the saudis and the kind of evidence that would show meijer support for the route from here in and you know saying that he. ok you've got a little bit of a we're going to knott's or evidence ok let me go to mohamed here and going to see liz we're not going to make it not how many and where they come from ok i'm going to get it to run right now how is this is hyper activity on the part of the united states and its allies impacting the region because it would it would seem to me that you know i've been watching closely my pompei on john bolton is the trouble global trot around the world pitching an anti iran policy and most people are
irritated by it. and they feel like they're being bullied right here i mean it seems to me this this this heightened activity is really alienating and actually isolating the united states they're not going to get the our allies they want to go along with this not in any way i mean they're very publicly scorning it is well go ahead and put on. without a doubt while the americans are hurting the iranian economy and or their intention is to make people suffer i mean this is something that even champ admitted his recent interview on fox where he also said by the way that the military industrial complex wants war which was an interesting statement but he he he's saying that he's waging economic warfare in iran and it has an effect but what he has also done is that this fight that powerful american narrative and the fact that it controls all the media across the globe and that the united states is has been the sole
superpower for by the while the united states for the 1st time has isolated itself when it comes to iran and we see that across the globe even american allies at these verbal they supported iran and are critical of the united states even the europeans who though they are abiding by american demands and they're in clear violation of the nuclear agreement and they're showing their weakness as a result but still at least a verbal these are opposed to the united states and what the americans have done actually by sanctioning china by. carrying out an economic trade war with china and the sanctions on russia's they've created a convergence among different countries and i think that's going to be more of a problem in the in the months ahead for the united states you know the united states and in my opinion of course they believe that iran would either collapse or that the iranians would come begging to the negotiating table and neither are going to happen and this is going to be a failure in itself as i said despite the fact that ordinary people are hurting but
i'd like to just add one point going back to what joe is saying again the term that i find problematic is is. proxies these are not iranian proxies there is no eve equivalent between the 2 sides the whole thesis and sort of not the yemenis if they were proxies they would have collapsed by now many years ago and it would have collapsed the fact that they've been able to us down and up against this infinitely more powerful opponent meaning the united states the french the british the germans the canadians and the saudis bringing in tens of thousands of mercenaries from north africa and central america the fact that they've defeated this powerful forces because they have their own agenda the they want to protect themselves they want to defeat an enemy that has brutalized them so much ok definitely iran is we want to hear i don't you know not iranian we see we have one
more minute and i cut joe often during the program i want to give him the last word in the last minute on the program go ahead joe where do we go from here and go. i mean we have not. going gone with it on monday iraq switzerland so i think there is at least. it doesn't mean they want to talk soon but maybe to try to go to the prebuilt on a crisis to merge the differences now you see more of a divorce in iran now we're conservative voice here so at least they can merge their relation to get to the presidential elections and we see what happens next i think it's eventually for them to talk but no they're not ready well joe i really like i think you've pointed a new phrase here pretty bolton ok the era of pre bolton i mean and that was pretty chaotic ok i want to thank my guests in washington and in philadelphia and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember.
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