tv Worlds Apart RT June 27, 2019 2:30pm-3:00pm EDT
welcome to. believe this showdown between washington and tehran is a lot like the united states clash with north korea 2 years ago except for one crucial difference there is no regional ally capable or even the willing to restrain. the barbs traded and sanctions imposed what gives the united states from sliding into yet another middle eastern war to discuss that i'm now joined by david morris and author all by a dangerous delusion why the. west is wrong about nuclear iran mr morrison's good
to talk to you thank you very much for your time. now back in 2013 you published a book with be their old war and making a rational argument against a war with iran and i think many of the points you made bag down are still valid but do you think this whole debate on iran especially in the united states is still within their ryall most rationality do rational arguments still matter well the basic facts of disappeared really from public view. the united states spent 10 years from 2003 to 22013 attempting to coerce around into giving up the radium and richmond. even though that was around right under the p.t. which are lawyers in richmond and the other activity as long as it's. for. civil and not motion purposes they failed despite their best efforts
they got sanctions imposed by the un security council they imposed sanctions themselves obama did and when most of 2012 i think. nevertheless they. continued with their investment program as they were entitled to do and then they talked with the situation in which they had about $20000.00 centrifuges which about half were actually functioning. time of course. there are the activities in your character you know the. iranians was was on her the supervision of the. on in all the time they fund absolutely no diversion of your material. for a nuclear purposes well it's one so far that a few days ago the united states and iran seem to be on the brink of a war but if we are to believe me. reports don't know trump called off
a strike on the run based in part on consultations if he's favorite t.v. anchor i'm sure that both of us are relieved that this strike didn't happen but this mode of decision making about the matters of war and peace doesn't it send chills down your spine yes i mean unfortunately there's one arcturian on this is just as not rushed no one has the united states i mean iran is comparatively rational about all these things and you can predict as to what's going to happen not least because. tony jones chief advisor and this is one john bolton who. is for everybody in favor of taking military action against iran and indeed over regime change in iran he he wrote an op ed in the annals of term 2015 i think it was suggesting that the united states should bomb around
nonexistent nuclear weapons program. he undoubtedly was to the fore an advisor in trying to take military action a few days ago by a trim tree bark. certain sure there are going to be over instances in which he will look at military action and maybe next time trump will not drop by i mean it's overly irrational because. there is no iran hasn't got a nuclear weapons program. has never how the nuclear weapons program the j c p a way has restricted the amount of. research uranium it can. keep on its own soil it come it. couldn't possibly make a nuclear weapon even if it thought so done through the years the u.s. and terms said look we can always tell if it moves away from the current level of enrichment which is largely required for a nuclear power. or towards higher levels of richmond too that are needed for for.
you just mentioned a moment ago that president trump was almost proud for having called off a military strike and having stood up to john bolton but at the same time he also doubled down on verbal assaults and personal sanctions against the supreme leader or for ron. i agree with you it's very difficult to understand the transactions but do you take that as a now for this an american effort to diffuse or on the contrary to your ratchet up the pressure insofar as they have promised to put pressure on iran that what they really expect to gain from go to the nose i mean. to meet them. around what was right a year ago in which there were 12 points in which which were impossible to believe that iran would ever. giving up their nuclear program altogether and included
apparently withdrawing from syria and stopping giving aid and assistance to hezbollah mean none of that's going to happen so their end game is god only knows the world should be saying with one voice and particularly europe should be say with one voice is this crisis is made in washington this crisis or is or isn't from the fact that the united states. is violating international sanctions by the security council. this should be said over and over again iran is innocent in this matter it was sticking to the britain sent an envoy to run the other day let's assume bloody capital to go to you mean it should go to washington because that's where it's going to be stopped it will be stopped but did do you really think that if the europeans are have enough capacity enough a geo political leverage to stop the americans from doing anything i mean though with all due seriousness is there. any power in the world that can make the united
states at this point of time to seek by its own dill. this very difficult there's the strongest power in the world and it's very difficult to see how they can be stopped but if you just knew europe was mostly acquiescing in this breach it wasn't done very much for around to help the situation and which is being strangled economically if you sit quiet surely nothing's going to renew any positive thing and quite a bit worse our foreign minister who. was standing in egypt at the conservative party actually said in the house of commons i think yesterday it would be very very unlikely he could deduce the situation in which britain would join in military action against around alone the united states so suppose you should be thankful for something you mentioned some of the things that could be done but what i'm mostly concerned is the this theater of affairs in the middle east because. while chum
seems to be proud of not rushing into war the overall security situation is very tenuous we still don't know what and who did the old those attacks on the oil tankers those attacks may repeat again they may be something else involving got for be some american casualties that would require a prompt american reaction i mean i understand that i sound like a conspiracy theorist but is it possible to explain what's going on in that region without suspecting some foul play. it's it's very difficult it's very difficult to say i mean and i'm going to sort of russia has. suggested that perhaps ron was right in saying that the drone was inside. her space when this when a short time but i wouldn't like to guess as to who was responsible for her. actions against shipping the go. these days whenever things happen he ask yourself
over time who gains from what even may look as if they had the answer is obvious i mean we just had a serious an in. the so-called chemical weapons and during the last year which you know stance on britain and france bomb syria turns out as it looks very very like as if that was in fact a staged event. i don't know who was responsible really because i podge of they had the russian one of the russian security chiefs and he went even further it's a jazz that all the evidence that the americans have so far presented as as if they were the evidence of the rainy and culpability were based on poor intelligence and it really looks like there is something going on of it the with the intelligence data tromp is often the cues of not trusting the american intelligence do you think he actually has a reason of being at least suspect of what he's given and asked to make his
decisions on well he would have a right to be because john bolton is famous for when he was part of the bush administration. for essential written and intelligence about cuba but. actually wanted to of his way to say that of course. is his is quite willing to lie. if the need arises so who would you believe some say he. seems to be content to live without sort of situation to some extent i think we've seen this story before with north korea the escalation of tensions there ratcheting up of sanctions followed by summits claims of mitchell affection but i think there is one key difference and that is that a role that is played by the american ally in the region south korea was leading the outreached you on north korea but he in this particular case israel
seems to be very very belligerent do you think there is any connection between this geopolitical situation surrounding big golf amman and perhaps an israeli domestic situation that israel has is right behind it's been trying for about 20 years to get america to talk around but by extension the next day they're inventing your usage really well to iran is doing and then you're for you. it's it would be absolutely delighted if it could persuade the u.s. at least to talk with your facilitation to sort of. whether israel is going to supplying information which is that's sort of less than the truth i couldn't really say ok well mr marson we have to take a short break now but we will be back in just a few moments they choose. the
answer to every single day economic problems every single number every single statistic every single market reactions to lower rates. it's like an alcoholic drinks when they're happy they drink when they're sad they drink because it's tuesday they drink because it's day time they drink because this time they're not a holiday they just drink drink drink. how the rates whether the economy is expanding whether it's. president doesn't matter is dog bit is why he's going to lower rates makes that difference that's the only thing that. we're going to st petersburg international economic forum and the topic of our panel is are we witnessing a paradigm shift in the global economic order well the answer of course is yes it's a matter of degree.
welcome back to worlds apart but david morrison and author of a dangerous delusion why the west is wrong about nuclear iran mr morrison one of the reasons why these townships have been so for attractive is because it's not entirely clear what the disagreement is really about is it about the iran supposedly intention to build a nuclear bomb or is it perhaps. america's and israel's desire to see a different government in tact what is it as far as you're concerned i think
there's little doubt it's its approach. making sure our trying to make sure it's iraq's power in the middle east is at least restraint and if not diminished i read on the case of. some people who does lead israel they would very much like to see a change or regime wish and hope that they would get some regime that was. less willing and able to stand up against people who attack and roadside. but they are there one thing i've been convinced of for many years is that nuclear then your business is just a pretext i mean the best evidence that i've come across for that is when in i think it was november 2007. the u.s. intelligence services produced a national intelligence estimate on this issue and. stated that
as far as they were concerned. didn't have a nuclear weapons program. george bush was angry about it he was angry but he said in his book that he was angry because this meant that he could no longer. make it more difficult for him to maintain the diplomatic pressure on iran and there's no way he could attack around militarily and circumstances in which. didn't and your weapons program so obviously the whole bloody business about the weapons program was just a pretense it was just a stick to beat around with and to use for the purpose of working on people against iran. unfortunately the u.s. intelligence services broke a stick well interesting that you keep referring to iran's possible mean you can't
program because just the other day john bolton was on record saying that there was quote no evidence that iran made a strategic decision to renounce nuclear weapons so he takes it for granted that iran has actually accepted nuclear weapons as part of its policy of each i'm sure where they agree with me never it never happened around never has a nuclear weapons program in any meaningful sense iran has never has never find any nuclear material being diverted from the purposes. that is the big fact. all the time this is richmond has been going on. it's been done under a supervision it's still being done on a supervision when the. limits are exhausted in whatever many years time 10 years 20 years in some instances then you know iran's nuclear program will
still be on her the. servatius of the day and they have known all along. what around us. doing to what level of your enemy has been enriched now in your book you actually go to some of the origins of how it all began failing to disclose its have a what are your any and facility natanz which the united states and israel eagerly as proof of its bomb building intentions but i draw it from your book that iran that that point of time didn't even have to disclose that facility in the 1st place how come. they were told where the. uranium enrichment facility was were they were in the process of building. on which the released evidence of evidence on data provided by israel the. point in time the agreement they had with the. they meant that they didn't.
disclose. their plans to construct facilities. i think it was 6 months prior to them putting your rhenium nuclear material into it so they were in the. sand afterwards and there were reports they weren't breaking any rules not regard but they certainly want to bring in the rules about their every water plant because every water is not a nuclear material and iran was still. eager to pursue some trust building measures to quote unquote restore the international community's trust in its nuclear program but many of the iranian officials i interviewed kind of suspected that this trust building measures were just the cover for a total of revoking preeminent revoking iran's right to enrich uranium granted to
the nonproliferation treaty it seems like you actually agree with the ranee an argument here that all this negotiation international negotiate. it was not about building trust but actually about a permanent ban on iran's nuclear research industry the situation well as negotiations really went wrong nothing from about 2003 to 2 sources and 5 with. european ones. including the u.k. and various points i wrote around suspended. various nuclear activity. temporarily at the request of the europeans but. eventually when the europeans come up with their plan. for the future of the nuclear industry in and around it for iran to enrich uranium for.
iran's rights i have. iran and i did was mr zarif so if there is no foreign minister put forward. by about iran would attempt to gain. the confidence of the world that its activity was not for military purposes. the it was it was rejected out of hand. the europeans even though it provided for an extraordinary level of supervision by the way. offered to turn enrich uranium into uranium robes right away. so that it would be more difficult to reverse the process and further and rich the material for weapons were officers. the europeans were but the europeans were doing america's will america said they were told they were told straightforwardly
we don't want any of its centrifuges operating in and around europe obeyed. now the europeans may have been doing the american bidding at that time but clearly there are now divisions a bit in europe and the united states on how to receive the european still want iran to comply with a j c p o e bay americans insist on they've essentially i think permanent ban on the iranian enrichment whatsoever and just the other day donald trump promised a rainy and a booming economy if they were to abandon their rights you can reach is there any reason any rational reason for the rain ians to say yes to trump's proposal will. you come in sympathize with reunions when they say. this is all norms.
the potential for a very i'm calling on to he. decided to violet the international treaty that was astonishing 2015. and proceeded to time to strangle around economically. but you know this this all stars for america and it really is it is time for the europeans to say with emphasize that with a large force and. a great deal more support around and the trouble it's been placed in by the u.s. administration i really do think. the europeans have been. really knocked. them for size and off the degree to which around there's an innocent party i mean they can keep joining in all the time with a solution that iran is the norm is destabilizing factor in the middle east i mean
iran didn't turn iraq into a bloody mess for syria and a bloody mess you know. who's the stimulating and city in the middle east and its capital is washington speaking of which the u.s. state department has just rolled out while demands including abandoning the iranian ballistic missiles program withdrawing from syria obvious things that many other countries around the world that gauge it but iran for some reason should not be allowed to and to me it really looks like the americans are asking the iranians to concede that they are indeed a pariah state with no sovereign rights whatsoever i'm sure the chances of that happening. but do you think in general it's a good way of framing the issue in conducting international policy thing going out with a country just because you don't trust the denying you all the rides that they've
given all the other neighbors thank you but this is more and struck me as a really very road you know of the situation in which the most powerful nuclear power in the middle east that is actually used nuclear weapons this is siding with a major part of the middle east which has got loads of their weapons and means of delivering them through to the capitals of the middle east if not for. here they are attempting to strangle a state that has gotten new nuclear weapons and has a. you know spends almost a pittance on arms compared to the united states. and even that's too much apparently that. they're not allowed to help their diverse when the neighbors are asked like in the iraq and syria. on the other hand you know the united states can come halfway around the world and interfere in syria against the wishes of the state of syria and israel seem party that's joined with the united
states and. iran or most of. the movie is crazy well mr morsi when you put it like that it's really depressing by the unfortunate if this is the world that we live in anyway we have to leave it there thank you very much for sharing your perspective with that thank you i invite our viewers to keep this conversation going in our social media pages. same place same time here on worlds apart.
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world leaders arrive in the japanese city of asako for what could be at 7 g. 20 deg. session is expected to be dominated by trade tensions the climate crisis and the threat of conflicts in the persian gulf. in the run up to the forum president donald trump's been threatening china with a further $325000000000.00 worth of. his agriculture secretary complains that u.s. farmers are bearing the brunt of the trade war. and the working farmer are a casualty in this trade war i think they are one of the casualties they are the traders who are in.