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tv   Cross Talk  RT  October 22, 2019 12:00am-12:31am EDT

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you know that. any attempt to say yes to the speaker of the u.k. parliament blocks the government's. still no signs of certainty. and supporters as someone please on their families feeling safe to. say. i. know that lines an 18 year old helping palestinian farmers in the west bank is brutally beaten by water alleged to have been israeli settlers. they returned and.
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we. don't. believe the clubs so i tried to defend myself with my head and told them both my youth and. media in the us come up with a new catch phrase to denigrate the unconventional views of presidential hopefuls. that's it for me. just for you next hour coming up for you just a few moments. in the u.k. . hello and welcome to crossfire poor all things are considered. elections mean anything anymore well the ukrainians have a new pres. and
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a new parliament to change comes slowly if at all in ukraine corruption and neo nazis blocked the way forward. cross talking some real news i'm joined by my guest robert bridge he's a r.t. website writer we also have nick like petro he is a professor of political science at the university of rhode island and of course we're joined by dmitri bob h. he's a political analyst and editor and interest me internet media project originally cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it robert let me go to you 1st here i think a lot of people get to be surprised by the content of our program because when you crane is in the news flow they're thinking of joe biden paul man of fort 2016 election the d.n.c. we could go on and on oh and of course the famous phone call between the presidents of the united states and ukraine but we're going to talk about ukraine in a different way in a way that most people are not following we had an election where we have
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a new president it's own skin we have a new parliament overwhelmingly supported his agenda and him personally. but doesn't seem to have much traction. yes that's very true and it's unfortunate that you have this element this far right neo fascist element in ukraine that is really calling the shots and it's amazing to me that. this alinsky has 77 or maybe it's less now i think is about 66 percent support of the people that's a lot you know it's quite alive percent voted for him and i don't understand now how it's possible when you have this love of public support that the street can rise up like it has when when i'm starting to wonder when it's going to get to the point when the people say no we don't want another made up because that's basically what the neo i guess called the nazis yes we're going to that's basically what they're calling for there apparently there are there are reports that they're out there threatening possible how did we get to this point because he you have to ask
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basic questions put to shame call came in as a centrist left i think is a much more nationalist right winger and we have zelinsky is very much a moderate i think his message resonated with the public so is he weak the institutions weak or both or is it just because there's a free fringe group out there that's trying to call the shots. the last. in february 2014 demonstrated the weakness of basic institutions of government in ukraine and the absence of any understanding of the concept of rule of law and that has persisted from then on there is lip service to the terms but no deep commitment or understanding of it i would take lightly different tack with respect to the right wing neo nazi element in ukrainian politics it exists it has an outsized influence but i don't think it is really
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the thing that is preventing change right now i think the thing that is preventing change in ukraine is the v. weakness of the city and ski specifically driven by his need to feel loved he wants to be loved by everyone that's but that's not ok that's a personal agenda but that's not a political agenda exactly my point my point so there is no political agenda my point is what i brought up because he did visibly change ok and now we have we have a lot of mixed language ok i mean he he wants peace with russia he wants some kind of resolution with the donbass he has to pay lip service to you to crimea though it's very i think everyone knows that when we lose it pays lip service to it and you know and then you have his western backers that want him to start making decisions to resolve this conflict but he can't he's paralyzed is it him or is
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we've already heard the institutions that are well i think the main problem is understanding you know the west. through reasons which is the answer is a big tree where it was the fact that people were tired of the war was also the. this division in ukrainian society petrol described very well in his articles in fact ukraine is divided between the west which wants to join the european union and nato and the east which did not change much just by changing the narrative all of that western media if you you know the western media just forgets what do rule 5 or 6 years ago look at their articles they confirm them that the east of ukraine traditionally vaults for a different candidate than that when you look over their president they want they don't want to be a part of russia i mean. some of the eastern regions but they definitely as
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professor petro wrote. they definitely don't want to be a part of a country horsetail to russia and the west just doesn't want to understand it instead they interpreted events as a victory as again someone young again someone who vote against putin is really terrified of who should be terrified because the russians will be jealous. in that wonderful man and they will topple putin you know what are we what about the oligarchs we're going to say you know you get ahead of me we're going to talk about corruption here but it's very very interesting because i know you follow media very closely isn't it really interesting that the whole ukraine narrative in western media starts in 2016 nobody wants to go back to the 1014 years old it's as if it didn't even happen exactly and well i thought i personally think that what's happening now is something that is understated nobody talks about it in the media
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is that the oligarchs are really calling the shots in ukraine i don't know how much it has to do with the institutional weakness i am sure that that's a big part of it but they tend to wield a tremendous amount of power that is excessive too to what they should have compared to like the power of the people the vote that. and understand how this could possibly happen and it makes me wonder why zelinsky when he came into power he didn't say ok we're going to we're going to clean house we're going to lay down the law we have a mandate from the people to clean up and we're going to stop this funding of the for example the battalion which is i don't understand why they're down there i don't know if they're actually integrated into the. you know openly. interesting thing you want to. well. robert mentioned 3 things that contribute to the mainstays of power all of the
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executive which now is the executive in the legislative branch together has impressive power and then there are the institutions of government which exist to surround the deep state. i don't know if i want to go ok. i don't want to be any of them the problem is that. the institutions are we have always been weak and this goes back to even before ukraine's independence there's never been strong institutions in the sense of being independent in ukraine . then this has been played off the divisions between east and west through the alternating of power in the political branches but now we have this political branch but we don't have a real leader we don't have a leader because the person and his party don't stand for anything
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people voted for them not because of anything that they promised or what they said there was no agenda there was no history they promised to bring some peace and everyone who promised you want everybody promised but it was an empty push and go broke it with us that's kind of my question i have is with the last one but if that's what the people want is peace why aren't these leaders why isn't this a let you know it's a week institutions and that we're. will be executive. leaves the oligarchy to play but the oligarchy are a bunch of stray cats they pull in every direction that they can and it appears from the outside that certain oligarchy have certain levers and certain agendas which are not governmental agendas their personal agendas i don't probably say about certain companies an individual the problem with publisher and it was he was the lead or a little dark but that at least offered some direction to the country if not
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structure and what we have now is the absence of an executive and the oligarchs are rife and at play right now so what do you mean democracy for doing well our i think they have to basically of what we see is completely contrary to all the western narrative because they promised in 2014 that this is the new ukraine there were the same words used which are they using now fortunately so great you know he was brought to power by these poor people that evolution in which by the way 38 policemen were killed and 5 government buildings burned down sometimes together with people inside them but this was not support that was stressed in the western media but there was thing that happened in 2014 professor rightly describe it in his articles basically what could be in ukraine before 2014 it was usually use this symbol at donkey to be sex you know one sack wants to go west the other sec wants
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to go east that connection between them is very narrow you know and this is the reason why kuchma and you know which never said yes or north to russia or to the european union because the moment once they say yes we go west the east was awful and sorry and what happened in february 2014 was that they destroyed the words destroyed this connection the sec which was supposed to go to the west when. to the west and they had a civil war this civil war was not the result of russian intervention or you know everybody and they destroyed the west destroyed by elementary democracy which prevent it these contradictions between east and west from going into developing into a civil war but one would make the argument now is with because i don't think the. best whatever term you want to use will ever be have
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a meaningful role again in ukraine they're going to have to fudge it here was crimea is gone so if we take the analogy of the balance it is forever in one direction right now to the west but if what does it mean to be part of the west we still have this issue in the bluefin other places like this where it's very right wing here professor me before going to break. where will this continued paralysis lete i think that in the not to distant future we're not going to see a new my but we're going to see probably a general rejection by the ukrainian voters of political off or generally chaos in the country and quite possibly a rise and to western sentiment. those who currently want to see what you were going to continue with after a short break we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion of some real news day.
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there are no official statistics in india concerning children who have been lost or separated from their parents some are to estimate that everything 8 minutes in the country the child goes missing. or you think. the national human rights commission stated that $44000.00 minors go missing every year while the police quoted. the united nations children's fund has described the situation as genocide and various sources suggest that in india there are several
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1000000 missing women and children. you know world of big partisan movies. and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. welcome back to crossfire all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing some real news.
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ok let's go back to the good professor. you said right before the break something quite fascinating about the future instability of youth. considering the status quo elaborate more. well right now as has been mentioned i think there's a dichotomy between those who you're in to see a western. western oriented ukraine and those who i would call it pro russian ukraine i would say a truly independent ukraine having an autonomous its own vision of its own foreign policy and you can about i mean. we have to get away from this false dichotomy. but these protesters and forces have a very tenuous relationship with the west because it's all about what is the
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west doing for ukraine which is at the forefront at the the ball work and he russian. and he russian policy to the extent that the west and i think it's clear is not going to support that kind of long term anti what the russian initiative these forces in western ukraine are going to be disillusioned with the west and one already sees this in. the statements of current members of parliament for example that maybe we should rename the party servant of the people which is their dance party into servant of the i.m.f. because the i.m.f. really has us by the throat and is never going to let go and this is just one example of the of the true attitude of the west toward the would be but you know we would have predict we predicted this long ago because you know do be careful what
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you wish for ok what about the servant of the united states i mean our state department has since i believe since 1901 through usaid from 1900 to 2014 i believe $5000000000.00 going to. go ahead. well basically it's interesting the bold figure of $5000000000.00 from the united states there are several hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid basically of $1500000000.00 in military aid $17000000000.00 from the you was going to go union and the professor made this estimate $30000000000.00 you bring almost all russia in various forms of debt you know. that but what happens i agree with the professor that there is going to be instability because basically people elected zillion to you because they wanted peace with russia he keeps boston i broadly don't think is the answer you rupturing i mean that and corruption is very yes but now he says that we
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are basically not going to feel the means could be that what he is just a message that is not what we wish for 2nd so that's not going to be resolved any time so that was but that was the point of reference of respectable if you like the mint's accords you know everyone who is doing well or not doing it was always the point of reference that where do we go from there because it's very key people in the east you know all the people there are patient for peace you know they want peace they don't understand all the intricacies actually the story with the music of course is very simple they presuppose a kind of told me for the east in return for the establishment of ukraine and control over the border the problem is that the ukrainian authorities are not going to give this autonomy they are not and m.s.d. they are not given special status they continue the economic blockade of these regions well the other interesting with this is. that the area that equal to the city of course is only doing something very unpopular you know at least the land
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reform which which allows private ownership of the land sale for lent including its only to organise that is deeply unpopular in ukrainian society the united states have been pushing for this for a long time but even. i did not dare to make these very poor people up. so in this situation i agree with the professor he wrote a few years ago 2 thirds of the boss residents surveyed the newly made in 2014 say they regarded that my down as an ohm overthrow of the government organized by their position with the assistance of the best and the quote that was in 2014 i don't think it changed because what we've seen during these years could open the push for more cold fact and i think you know i think you push for a lot of other things in the you know in the defense area we could talk about there being issues being alive if you know what he was but he could be destroyed and that's a moment of supreme justice because what he did in ukraine will stable and know if he is removed for help in rudy giuliani you know. i don't want to go he didn't run
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to the ukraine gay guy i'd be really interested to know professor what do in ukraine does the media talk much about the news that joe biden it's all over the news now actually lay down the threat to the ukrainian prosecutor to be fired for the you create for the key have to fire the chief prosecutor who is investigating joe biden son hunter the truth that was that is that i have talked about that was described shortly after occur yes in other words i think was january 1900 at the council on foreign relations it was picked up in the ukrainian news but one of the things that is simply taken for granted in the ukrainian media environment is that the west calls the shots so why is this surprising ok who surprised by this it didn't have any traction in the american media at the time
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because they couldn't link it to trump but now. now it's coming to you for trying to link it to trump but. clearly this was political blackmail at the highest level by the american vice. that he says it was on behalf of the american taxpayer by coincidence with his son's activities in eastern ukraine at the same time makes. the coincidence of speeches. i think it's just amazing how far the american narrative about ukraine is removed from reality you know they are arguing about you know. and what happened in ukraine was the vice president of a different county seat in your president's seat or that the prosecutor general to be dismissed in 6 hours if a russian official give it you know they would say the driver she is ruling or
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ukraine then the 2nd story what is drawn from blame for not saying didn't weapons on time to ukraine do you understand how this is perceived in ukraine or russia imagine there is a war between canadian saying americans you know and a certain country is a weight sending weapons to canadians helping them kill more americans and their protest and you know indignation is not at the united states but in that country how dare you not to send these well again you know i mean this is my critique of american foreign policy countries that they meddle in are not allowed agency ok ok i want to go back to green we can do. is going to last a long time here is who buyers of buyers remorse from don 5 years on. on who's part of the ukraine has been general and general well. the
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surveys show a significant part of the population to be disappointed with the results of. the supposed to bring a new vitality and a new quality to the political life but not little has changed indeed corruption by all accounts has gotten worse over the last 5 years and the country has become impoverished one of the things about the i.m.f. deal which is has been stated often but keeps being repeated now in the press and it's very important to bear in mind because the ukrainian government has just adopted a very ambitious economic program for the next 5 years projecting 40 percent economic growth roughly 7 percent annually if ukraine in g.d.p. growth grows at 4 percent or 5 then it will have to pay 40 percent of profits to the i.m.f. well to the to the people that have extended it credit which as one economist wrote
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on this road very recently makes it simply unprofitable to have high rates of economic growth in ukraine so i will have to remember that this is a reconstruction goals that g.d.p. failed 10 percent in 2015 right after the mind even if we exclude craney from the statistics it fell through that 6.4 percent next year so what we see now the ukrainians stajan to leave somewhat like what they leave behind a young age may be. may be considered to be a golden age and after all these years but the last thing that the mind and did was to destroy these balance to destroy democracy in ukraine region was one of the things that i do. i want to end on this interview that you guys can jump in here me giving the don special status is impossible if they agree to it because other
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regions of the country will the same and you going to be putting. the constituent nature of ukraine at stake in this is that's between the rock and a hard place here if you give one set something others may want the same. what's so there's a debate now one side is using the term autonomy the other side the government is using the term radical decentralisation it's not clear what the difference is although there probably is a significant difference and one should probably stick to the actual meaning of autonomy because what the boss actually wants and what i think many regions of ukraine would not object to especially in the western ukraine would be some form of greater autonomy verging on federalism but the problem is you cannot use the f. word in ukrainian politics. well that's what the professor all of
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a few years ago ukrainian nationalists have so little quote for them seen their ability to do we know with the population that they see local culture with tony as a direct path of secession that's exactly true because you don't even. really want to be very good spoke very. low therefore you want to point out there that choice is between polluted culture and ukraine something with. russia and have been striving for recognizing that this is their doing beach county russian and ukrainian and many other languages and more not least think ukraine you know nationalistic based on the west. and the west has been pushing for that you know during the last 5 years but the point is that these last these very division because if you. to impose the same identity on ok many details we went down to the sea home here and you're you have excellent reading skills that's not really going
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to play for you that's all the time we got here many thankfully get here in moscow and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are the see you next time remember across the rules. there is no variety any of the characters that make up global finance any more everything is that 00 is is predominate every single conversation that comes out of the mouth of every financial writer in the press and on television is 0 every security is now based on 0 and the entire mix of this phantasmagoria of the global finance is is all blending together into one huge void the worst
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was crushed. when i was told seemed wrong. but old rules just don't hold. any you won't get to shape out just a constant battle. and in again trying to close the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. and we don't know what facebook's aims are in fact facebook doesn't know what its aims are because it's going to be the sum total of all the people who are working on these algorithms a whistleblower someone who used to work for facebook came forward last year and said i was one of the news curators at facebook a bunch of us used to sit around every day and we used to remove stories from the
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news feed that were too conservative and now and then we inject a story that we saw it was really cool. facebook founder mark zuckerberg says he's committed to giving everyone a voice he's from responding to an allegation that facebook edits conservative views out of its trending topics they can suppress certain types of results based on what they think you should be seeing based on what your followers are presenting now a new report claims that according to a former facebook employee the social media mega company sometimes ignores what is actually trending among its 1000000000 users if the story originated from a conservative news source or if it's a topic causing buzz among conservatives. facebook costly manipulates or users they do it by the things that they insert into the news feeds they do it by the types of posts they allow their users to see and the fact that they actually decided.


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