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tv   Worlds Apart  RT  December 5, 2019 9:30am-10:00am EST

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meaningfulness it is to try to destroy time which have been established. centuries and. interestingly those skeptic forces. are fronts or. wherever they dropped the slogan of this mantling the european union and that was very fair to do i think that for that transformation will be very complicated by the end of the european union will iran have to do. another union we don't know yet which one that one somebody renovate their home it inevitably f.x. the neighbors you hear the sound you see the masses sometimes neighborly relations get soured how do you think this round of ation is going to a fag the neighbors especially those who once hoped to move in with the e.u.
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. as for songs i think sounds the contrary it might become less vocal and less out. with a lot of sounds from the european union at the peak of its euphoria and extension well we still are hearing accusations that it's russia that is ultimately on demining be sure. to hear it from the european union. likewise from the united states but the main thing which all of us here in russia understand because we have same experience it's very tempting to blame anybody else on your own fault and in this concert in the rush to do it but we see exactly this phenomenon in the west especially in the european union but i think it's it's it it to most over it's
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a new stage because. for quite a long time the european next month was in the in the state of denial they tried to say that everything is ok there are there are some problems but mainly those are produced by outside forces now they finally concluded that shot something should be done in fact heard you make a very interesting point that for the 1st time since the collapse of the soviet union the countries between russia and the e.u. as seizing to be the prime geopolitical real estate they sometimes inflated values that there finally a left to their own devices do you think that realisation has already started to sink in do you see any change in how those countries in between there are relating to both russia and the e.u. . it's sort of difficult process because for those so-called in-between countries i think is a terrible name by the way their lives has been their geopolitical. extremely
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discriminate. those countries most of them they got used to live in in in vironment went to perceive themselves as very juicy after office and from the beginning from 9 to 90 s. it was consciously or unconsciously this willingness to play games between those who. are who are fighting russia against the e.u. russia is the or maybe not. but the. entity is to get some benefits out of them. and we see the results unfortunately what happened in ukraine 5 years ago and what does continue to happen now it's still a logic stand product of this this psychology of course this is a problem for both russia and the european union as well and i remember personally
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my multiple conversations with the european friends and american friends in 1900 special into silence when i tried to explain to them that. soviet union lost the cold war and the former warsaw pact states where. it was inevitable that they would go to nato or 2 to 2 western alliance but don't touch ukraine because ukraine is something completely different for russia and. they never never bought my arguments in that same article that aired referenced earlier which was published in july you also predicted that from now on the ukraine will be encouraged to develop a less confrontational relationship and with russia and well you know next week the russian and the ukrainian presidents for the 1st time will meet in person under the watchful eyes of their french and yeoman counterparts how significant is that. it
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is pretty significant because this is the 1st meeting in this so-called normandy 4 months since october 16th so it's quite quite the while and i personally have no doubts the. president really wants to move forward he wants to he was elected because of public demand for peace and normalization with russia but this is a positive side negative side since july. july when he was elected and then. the parliament was was in place. he go it's enormous credit and he got enormous. he got a historic mandate. sad that he has not been skillful enough to use and my question to you is you know some people could argue that meeting with putin
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is already a pretty bold step for the ukrainian leader what else could he have done that he's not doing to move things forward you know meeting is rather or rather a gift from fortune to him because. you know he's facing a lot of political pressure from ukrainian extreme ride that not to do that i mean that there he's also under pretty difficult political he's under extremely difficult political conditions and. she's struggling with both opponents inside the country and opponents outside the country and now he is obstinate that. position should be set to say bargaining chip in domestic infighting in the united states but i mean speaking about his own domestic politics what else could he have done to fulfill demanded this unique mandate that you mentioned i don't think he could do much. on the line of don't boss in this music process
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yet what he had to do and what he from my point of view so far failed to do to establish a war kink mechanism how to govern the country as you mentioned a couple of minutes ago she got the historic mandate no one before nor ukrainian president had such a strong support from both population and the parliament and then this in this regard if. a more skillful a more experienced politician would be in his place maybe he would the chief more unfortunately zelinsky from my point of view is still in the position of playing the role of a president which he did before he became politician rather than to be a real president who is in charge of the country well mr dale county have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just a few moments statement. was
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. what politicians do something to. put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so if you want to be president. somehow want to be left.
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to the right to be close as you like to look for free in the morning can't be good but. i'm interested always in the lawyers in the power. question. on arizona's johnson. and i just got out of prison for. 41 years. i'm 73 years old now i got arrested for too many for some i didn't. feel like just everything was taken out of. my work in the hospital i think mr mayor. i meant to say no man that looks a little bit like me. about high.
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homicide want to. work hard tough you this. is so you're going. to go system. do not afraid to try to frighten. us we are going to suffer run didn't. create a special or kill somebody we can davis is one of them eligible yeah but didn't get us out of the office. you thought the whole doping in russia thing was over for get it initial by cubicle me up out of about through
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a couple of us sure mostly. some of the muscle sensitive. russian outlets eligibility for the international competition says a stake in this includes events like the tokyo olympics and the fee for world cup and qatar if i am in the early as last show you all just up here when you come in you know they'll just as it was 4 years ago in moscow anti-doping plavix at the center of the scandal so who tampered with the doping samples database and one does greegor you want you guys have to do with it and you know she's stupid because we've got to pull zameen you know put us in a little spot when the use the push on the just book dealership might expose me in the ocean touch a little to the polish you know there's no. you know world of big partisan movie laws and conspiracies it's time to wake up to dig deeper to get the stories that made stream media refuses to tell more than ever
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we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the bad and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for washing clothes for watching the hawks. welcome back to worlds apart from a further look piano fanatic turn in chief off russia in global affairs magazine mr mccann i've just before the break we started talking about this december 9th meeting in france which just like the whole normandy format was designed to address specifically the conflict in eastern ukraine as. untangled as that issue
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is can it be tackled without reassessing at least in part the whole e.u. russia ukraine conundrum and by that i mean economic ties between russia and ukraine. publicly warm but privately cold and distant relationship between ukraine and the e.u. the nature of that mutual commitments etc all these host of issues that precipitated the conflict in the 1st place. that's very difficult because on the one hand you're right. disaster. was a product of the relationship between russia. and the same time. the stage who are now. you cannot start with.
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and say ok let's discuss. and then the university can just start with the e.u. for example could start with having an honest conversation about the ukraine and discuss whether ukraine will ever be part of the e.u. what ukraine is getting from the association agreement whether ukraine once you have some sort of economic relationship with russia i mean we don't need to start big i mean those are issues that directly affect the lives of everyday people. would be great unfortunately in this particular case i'm afraid that no one. those involved. wants to be 100 percent. open and honest that that was the nature of this conflict from the beginning it was based on them very sort of to say. from all sides and to start with this. chance to undermine everything why russia is so. insisting
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on a very formal past. described in the minsk documents because this is a way to. formalize steps which should be done and to start to. take particular can lead to a much bigger solution in the future at the same time for ukraine. agreement 15 was an agreement to stop war it was a very big war which ukraine was about to lose and they signed this agreement which from. that's argument that they don't have to fulfill it because it was signed under duress but no no it's not an argument not to fulfill them and president poroshenko he signed and. ukraine had no choice but that was
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a product of very complicated circumstances now on the one hand sometimes it looks like there like a deadlock in the same time why all side stick to that there is no other framework to go if. agreement for months then nothing else is left and than risk for a new war it will be quite time now the russian ukrainian relationship has 2. major components economic and security i want to start with economic and i'm sure you would agree with made that. in addition to solving the conflict in this to me a crane russian ukraine now has a much more accurate. dispute to settle i'm talking about the expiration of the gas transit contract the contract for transiting russian gas to the european union and what i find historically ironic that ukraine now after arguing for years that
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russia is using gas as a geopolitical wop and against it it is now insisting on the long term called contract with moscow which moscow is trying to evade do you think the 2 will be able to meet each other halfway yes i think so. fortunately or unfortunately. so we have trouble with. the gas field since. 2910 years ago it was a. disruption of the european union. contract which is expiring now was signed the moment. but they will sign it because they know after. will be. launched. russian position will be much much stronger and ukraine will be not in the position
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to dictate now i don't know if you would agree with that but i think one silver lining in this genuinely awful russian ukrainian relationship is that the crayons over the last $44.00 or 5 years have stopped taking russia and the economic benefits that they derive from being graphically close to russia for granted in. disguise that flipping over the. gas transit contract is one indication of that is there any chance that these economic promises and this whole conflict erupted into what it is today. from these economic promises the promises that are alive is it possible that their relationship could ultimately be patched up by the economic considerations as well that the ukrainians will see the pragmatism of having some sort of a very relationship with russia or do you think we have long been past that i'm
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rather skeptical of course we see how strong ties are and where because after 5 years of mutual rejection of a very very clear and. aggressive of ukrainian government to cut all ties to russia economically with russia. doesn't doesn't matter. consequences didn't matter and russia of course russia. suffered a lot from disruption of economic relationship but this by that we see that trade is growing so extremely strong nature a lot of go. and the same time you know for a very long. i cannot imagine any russian government to.
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repat over konami time. now you wrote recently that russia is now entering into the real post imperial stage in which it can finally a rest assured that ukraine georgia moldova will not be part of the e.u. and nato for the foreseeable future if the kremlin is indeed as sure of that as you believe why it is sticking to its guns and by that i mean insisting very have only on the autonomy of donetsk and lugansk as a guarantee you that that's not going to have. and. ukraine is a very special case it was from the beginning. there is no other territory no other country which would be dead there to russian minds and hearts as ukraine for just about minds and hearts or is it ultimately about security and security is perception as well if you perceive certain territory as being highly
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vitally important for you then of course you extrapolate from that also security fears and ukraine. russia is crazy you might say russia is right but this is a fact of alive what we tried to explain to our west. then why do you think there is the there is still this insistence on the former path is it just the then the willingness to recognize your own mistakes because if for example i ve or i nato would towel russia in some formal matter that this is not going to happen that would solve a lot of issues connected to ukraine i mean it's understandable how difficult it is for president does have an skee but you know nato and the e.u. could do part of the difficult job for him no there will never see in the sink else to russia but. because it's. our.
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alliances or blocs based on certain political values and perceptions. the idea that any country has the right to choose alliances was one of the fundamental i mean look what happened with this idea. and the infamous adani rich even changed i mean the like you know a hypo chorus is another pillar of political action in the west. the sad story by by. or you should criteria and so on that will continue indefinitely the same with ukraine at the same time no one ever. growing membership especially in the e.u. the only statement i can remember was made by. a former head of
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european commission a couple of years ago when he said that for next. to 5 years ukraine cannot expect to join the european union for at least 25 years so in this regard what ukrainians . for themselves. i want to ask you about made today alliance is celebrating 70th anniversary this week and i think it's fair to say that just like in case with the e.u. it is going through a period of understanding what it is what it stands for what its future is lots of internal disagreements we just witnessed very interesting interaction between in fresno across on and president tron but the formal alliance the official line remains the same russia is the existential threat do you think any amount of. internal disagreements can undo that. because.
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they have not just stayed but this stake cannot leave. portugal turkey and. greece. to have any. security about threats to no one they have a completely different context and situation and in this. in the autumn and to keep at least formally going you need something which all member states to reject. to point out he was russia wrong to take crimea yes ok let's assume that russia is a. and that's. i heard you say even before that this memo from russia's threat is very convenient very expedia and a both to the e.u. and to nato for catalyzing and reframing our internal disagreements and. you know i
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think it's also ironic that they would find that own internal problems more threatening the last possible to me down the russia threat to some extent russia's threat is much less threatening but i also heard you say that at this point the e.u. actually needs russia. to increase its room from when you were with the united states possibly for many other issues as well don't you think that sooner or later these nests acetate for cooperation with russia will prevail. but again i'm not very much optimistic the only person in inside the european union who has a vision which is not strong but but some vision is present michel. and he understands that. because he he believes that france needs a relationship with russia to strengthen its positions in the unite in the european
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union and his over the united states. but at the same time any 2nd european politicians start to discuss their teacher taught them in. a realize how we get they are themselves. and unfortunately. for russia they are afraid of russia so much. to keep ties with. the same time. we could have also discussed what is really the united states because for all their disagreements. on the way open to developing a relationship with russia but mr. to leave it for a time because our time is up thank you very much for coming. to keep this conversation going in our social media pages as for me and the team. same place
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same time on worlds apart. so.
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please. lists lists lists.
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lists. and very well might continue watching on since last. all the yen the euro and the dollar they all refer to each other and they're all going deeper and deeper into debt so there's no basic there or there there's no there's no way to measure the dead against something that is could be considered money remember j.p. morgan said only gold is money everything else is credit or debt ok so without that there is no way to measure debt and there's no at the moment you know my my view is that this is leading to a neo feudalism poor you have just a few private equity firms owing 98 percent of all the assets and everyone else is living as serfs on that we're getting back to the dark ages.
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or boils over a month. 'd to over a whole front says pension system nationwide strike brings the country to a whole. also ahead on the program russia's foreign minister rejects germany's claims the date has not been cooperating with an investigation into the murder of a georgian citizen in berlin. and a journalist for artie's a video agency ruptly is searched and detained under the u.k.'s terrorism as he attempted to cover a nation's 70 about diversity summit in the.

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