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tv   Cross Talk  RT  January 13, 2020 3:30am-4:01am EST

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the mainstream corporate media refuse to discuss. cross-cutting some real news i'm joined by my guest going these and is a professor at the higher school of economics as well as author of the case of western civilization and resurgence of russia we also have dimitri bobbitt she's a political analyst and editor in a smi internet media project and he and the london macross alexander macarius is a writer on legal affairs as well as editor in chief of the duran dot com our german cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciated let me go to alexander in london you know over the past 10 days or so we've heard the term escalation deescalation proportional and one of the things i think that is mr very much is the how the behave the behavior on the side of the leadership and to iran and in washington we term asymmetrical
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was used all of the time and i think indeed it was asymmetrical but for very very different reasons taran was being strategic and political while trump was relying upon sanctions and the 3rd and and the demand that the united states be remain inside of iraq against the will of the people in government and parliament there that is what makes this all asymmetrical and i think you can draw different conclusions about as the media likes to do who won and who lost go ahead alex and well what is what i mean i think the fundamental difference is that the range to. range of their assets together that that foreign policy that diplomats they bring to get their political aint is they be able to bring in their intelligence operatives manage to me people also their economic assets such as they are and they set themselves very clear objectives which they don't let themselves. it
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from and their objective is not clearly defined easy is to try to get the united states out of the middle east out of iraq specifically out of areas where they can threaten new iraq iran the united states why contrast what we see there is a dysfunctional government which doesn't have any kind of clear long 6 long established plan so you have different people pushing for different objectives you have people look wanting to escalate as you put it which means essentially having a war you see the u.s. government forced into frantic diplomacy through the swiss embassy in tehran which it now turns out it was the united states which initiated it was lee us and having started the escalation became panicked and saw the way out to deescalate in other words they don't have clear objectives and they're not working
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towards those objectives instead you get the impression of a very powerful country stretching around throwing bombs in some directions killing people in other directions threatening people with sanctions but it isn't coherent and you know. you wouldn't get that impression from mainstream media go ahead glenn go ahead and i was just going to say this the theme of a. dominance has been the very central strategic objects about do not a state so. the simplicity that america would be able to increase escalate when it wants and the bring it down so for example if the u.s. drops bombs in pakistan to syria or in another dozen countries understanding would be that country would not be allowed to respond because of the unpredictable and there are devastating consequences from your so they can bring tensions up and down as they want for for pressure now was into. the thing with iran is they must deny
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that this is america cos what they did was they launch their missiles directly at american military bases in america essentially have to suck it up and accept all this is the price we have to pay for for killing. general in the iran so this is so that they rob americans of this escalation run their business very interesting because even if you look at the raney in response by firing those missiles they were just hitting buildings and store where houses and things like that it's sent but that is the message there is that they can do it they can't be stopped and they're not limited to iraq and i think that is the strategic message that they were sending nobody in the mainstream media the corporate media picked up on that well and that is the see i asked in my introduction what has changed that has changed and policymakers in washington that they have any kind of horse sense at all have to take that on board go ahead well i slightly disagree with you on
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corporate media because this is what i read in the new york times. sports was well was a well calibrated measure for the 1st time is that just being anti trump exactly ok . so this is the 1st time in 10 years that they agree with and maybe the wrong reason for going for their own reasons because actually what we saw was you know the no calls have shown their obvious site you know during the obama years and during this russian gate in ukraine gate investigations we have seen the ugly side of the liberal interventionists the started the war in libya they started the war in syria they started basically started the war in ukraine now we see that only side of the neocons i mean there haven't been cancelled i hope by the new broom and interventionist we saw it and what i think was more stable was basically of the moral side of it all i mean drama given into it to faux news they're asking why did you do. why did you kill the general sorting line and what are your facts you know
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and trump responds i believe it could have been a good embassy as it would have i believe. in foreign business i believe if we could have been military bases it could have been a lot of other things but suddenly he was gone well this is thinkin i'm sorry all of oscar pistorius you know they have sold so frickin this lead who killed his daughter and shooting her from a bottle because he thought it could have been included see it could have been robbers but pistorius was on trial for that and mr crump instead of based on trial gets britney's from the wall street journal though you know we have the article there which says. are we seeing a regen survival of trumps 40 poorly see that's the headline and you can imagine it would end if you could alex alex it seems to me and i'll just be kind of more blunt here i think the assassination of the money was an act of desperation because
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there's a lack of imagination in how to move forward because essentially the u.s. is going to be find itself isolated in its fred friendly country iraq instead of fighting isis or put making sure it doesn't come back it's going to have to worry about the shia militias firing upon them in their bases i mean i think this doesn't make any sense to me as something was started and i have no idea how it's going to end go ahead alex. this is correct because of course the united states as i think has become very clear now seriously underestimate as you dram when they pulled out of the j.c. way when they imposed all these sanctions on the thing that iran would on the very quickly come to the negotiating table all of that the government there would rapidly collapse because of massive bore you to protests nothing like that has happened the european allies have shown that they're not very keen on this whole cry. distract all they weren't consulted it is the united states in this situation
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which is looking increasingly isolated even the saudis even the israelis were not particularly it's interesting alex i was i was one of the questions i sent out to you guys is that there was it was really relatively quiet in the region as the song was going on ok because again the demonstration effect of the the the attack on the saudi. energy installations sent a message and everyone else has been taking that on board except for some neo cons in washington d.c. you want to get in a just a small you know it all started with the united states born being a base or sharing militias in iraq and then mr trump got very angry about demonstrations near the american embassy in the united states about it but we hear from c.b.s. from c.b.s. from david marsh and they're correspondent that i caught these shared militias are
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part of the iraqi security force and there were 25 people killed there imagine some foreign country voice you know a base of u.s. national guard kills 25 people and then they're dismayed that they're going to have to states citizens are staging a demonstration in their embassy you know and this demonstration it was van percent all warped the ukrainian nazis did during their mind on protests they set on fire 10 buildings there and people and killed 38 policemen this is how the war started put in didn't started it started in kiev but now there were just a few storms thrown their gate of the embassy the current of their guest the green zone you know and the iraqi security force did not react why because thank you 5 of their colleagues who were killed you know it's interesting. i was watching how my pompei of the secretary of state was reacting to all this. they don't want any kind
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of questioning of their i was going to say strategy but there is no strategy the way i can see it i mean it looks quite empty and vacuous and they don't really have a reason it seems that this is the goal and it seems to me they did the assassination is merely because they could do it not that was made any strategic sense no i agree and i think they kind of walked him selfe into this difficult position because the the mainland. legitimacy behind this would be they called him a terrorist and then this is the this is killed terrorists and it's probably the most fundamental individual in the region that actually pushed isis back but it's going to show us the problem of demonizing iran because you know already a few months ago they recognized that the revolutionary guard a military branch in iran is a terrorist organization and then by definition the leader of this all the money they define him as a terrorist now once you start throwing this words around terrorist calling foreign
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leaders foreign terrorists now you're opening for you having this legitimate so-called legitimate. issue when leaders in the u.s. is legitimizing that why can't a rann do it is well it's been legitimized by the kind of walks exactly and all ones and the kind of language that trump you'll just you know it could have been for emphasis and then suddenly he's gone you know it was ascribed to study and then he said there is a man there is a problem there is no man there is no problem no one card started saying that publicly but truong is basically saying it both all of that but we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on some real news stay with arkie. join me at. on the alex simon chill and i'll be speaking to
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a guest in the world of politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see that. seem wrong. but all wrong just don't call. me. yet to stamp out this day because that's ok and in detroit equals betrayal. when something you find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground . you know world of big partisan movies a lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that made stream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to
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stop slamming the door on the shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely for watches the hawks. the stud just one magic bullet you could actually come up with some of the top of these baby bonds talking about ways we get access capital and capitalism is important so we could actually have programs that actually help folks who want to do that but when you give everybody a $1000.00 i'm a poor person i'm going to consume that and then you're rich you're going to invest that equity that the wealth disparity is going to grow because you're not using your money did that consume your literally buy more crazy things and then my landlord knowing that i got a $1000.00 let me just go raise my writ so then you get your inflation going on and there.
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welcome back to crossfire where all things considered i'm peter lavelle to to remind you we're discussing some real news. ok let's go back to alex in london you know alex this this 10 day. fiasco that we all went through. a lot of war jitters and whatnot and a lot of exaggeration in the media and misinformation disinformation that's why we do programs like this but there is one problem out there that is not resolved then is going to be increasingly more difficult to resolve and that is the u.s. military presence in iraq now trump is been threatening iraq with sanctions making you have to pay for these bases while the u.s. and its allies in baited in 2003 illegally i don't see why the iraqis have to pay
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one cent as a matter fact an apology is due also we have threats that the new york fed bank may withhold cash reserves that are held on behalf of iraq and if i'm not mistaken in the in the tune of $3000000000.00 i mean is this how you treat an ally i mean don't you go shade in top with a now i not threaten that's how you resolve issues or maybe that is something no one void in this administration when it comes to foreign policy go ahead alex well this is absolutely shocking behavior because those troops those american troops in iraq are supposed to be there at the invitation of iraq if iran conflicts with them to go they should go in fact it seems that the united states not only wants them to stay it is prepared to put coercive pressure and you talked about this attempt to stall iraq axis bank. in order to force them to stay that
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is not the action of an add on that is the action of an occupier of a country that is trying to occupy iraq for its own purposes in order to conduct wools against other countries namely iran with which iraq is on good terms and which she wrote needs to be on good terms with so it is all for behavior and of course it is extremely unwise and very dangerous behavior because increasingly iraqis every level of society who are already very angered by the experiences of 1st the war and occupation of their tree but also the previous history of sanctions that the united states imposed on iraq are now increasingly going to start to see the united states and its military on their territory as not the solution to their problems but has the problem you know yeah i mean as glengall
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it clinton seems to mean we have to remind our viewers that in the 1980 s. iran and iraq want an 8 year war something akin to like trench warfare in the 1st world war it was bloody it was awful it was destructive. and now we have this illegal invasion of iraq and the net outcome of that is that iraq has moved closer to iran a country that they fought a bloody war for 8 years. doesn't the american stance actually than in push forward a better iraqi iran relationship because you know the trump administration say we're going to leave and part of the conditions is that we want everyone else to leave everyone should get out of iraq i think you could sell that idea the i think a lot of iraqis would go for it i think the majority of iraqis would like to see all foreign troops off or an opera or operatives leave but the way the trumpet.
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ministration is playing it works to iran's advantage again well that happened already in 2003 and $4.00 after the invasion and we saw that the. that. with the sudden same gone a future shiite dominated iraq would increasingly align itself closer with iran and of course overcome their troubled history now i think. there's been a one of the unintended consequence of killing some of money as well now the iraqis are asking americans to leave iraq because of course they don't want to be battlefield for the in the middle of all of this so so yes the day they play this and then the very very bad way and of course this will be a big strategic victory for the iranians because they would like the americans to leave the middle east and iraq would of course be a highest priority in terms of where they should lead in syria. yes of all obviously so i think well i do sympathize with the goal to get like you mentioned get them on out of iraq and i think what the middle east really needs is a proper security architecture and now i think the problem there is i think there's
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more interest in conceptualizing security architecture like we do in europe where we establish a military alliance team for example against russia now i think they want to recreate something similar in the middle east now security architecture should include iraq once excluded then we have the european system where it's targeting another state and then security becomes defined very much since there are some terms ok you didn't used the word i'll use it nato they want to get you know the navy bring up the need to were even expanding nato to include arab countries which i think is going to be interesting as nobody's mentioned if israel should be part of that i think that's an interesting no wrinkle we would have to work on but you know this idea of an arab nato has been floated before but nobody in the region seems to be particularly interested in drop said he said you know i told him he and we can use nato in other locations for example they need at least. intervention is have been. on paper withdrawn for all these years saying that he did not respect
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his european allies you know he thought that germany was not paying enough now trungpa seen you know these european guys they're useless we the east you know we can expect there but isn't that. terrible the county has been occupied then maybe you can have a civil war in iraq that killed according to various estimates but i've heard any good men you know on television citing physicians for peace who say it could be up to london median people killed in iraq as a result of that chain reaction from the american intervention in 20031000000 people killed and now mr trump is seeing you all oss one trillion dollars all the money that we spent on the war in iraq you with iraq you government over us but also of the other interesting point is that i think in the rockaways see how liberal interventionists and now of course in the united states how the
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miscalculated to bow democracy they had been warned that the majority in iraq is basically shaded most libs so if if you introduce democracy there bro you raney an audience would get would win you know that it was obvious but still you know george bush jr and others the press to have you know they had elections and know their own paper that iran has influence well of course iran has influence and there are some parts in the rock which support doing in presence because the need it against the so-called islamic state the true lies are on there so when your ready calls and and also iran is religiously close to them we had the same story in ukraine why is ukraine a dictatorship no because if you have democracy the rule russian the eastern candidate wins as it was the case with kuchma win over craft with the young actually. beeton you mentioned going the 1st all us drug of elections so
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a lot of with a zillion ski it having their lawyers allied against against for a single so they say dear that we need democracy but so i'm going to say you have translated into policy ok this go back to our experience i think it's really quite fascinating that you know the europeans and their country should get more involved in the middle east why would they want to do that because it turned into a 3 digit backwater in a quagmire but i guess that's what trump really wants he wants other people to do his dirty work for him and not just his i mean pro previous administrations as well i mean it really shows a lack of strategic vision and he wanted to leave the middle east problem solved and we solved for the united states and let the people in the region figure it out because that's the only way it's ever going to be figured out go ahead well that's absolutely right and i think that in europe the hunt deer expanding nato or sending nato troops to the middle east is absolutely horrifying to most people i mean
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speaking here in gross that there would be massive opposition. in germany where it was proposed some time ago by the current german defense minister that they send troops to syria to act as a peacekeeping force when the u.s. pulling out the in a war horrified at the whole notion the europeans would be appalled european public would be appalled by such a thing it seems to me frankly that this is just trump again trying to find a way saving face pulling u.s. troops out of the middle east without at the same time surrendering all appearing to surrender to the to the middle east and so he turns to his nato allies who are of course not interested it proves again exactly the point you made at the start of the program that there is no real strategic thinking behind all of this was a quickly say ideas of setting our arab and arab no. you know they go all the way
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back to the 19th those of us with memories or knowledge of the history of the region you know there was the baghdad act yet of the 1950s yet want to. eat revolution in iraq because that leaves one of the region don't want it it's extraordinary how the u.s. instead of learning mistakes always seems to repeat you know glenn the critics of donald trump from the left i'm actually from on the right as well i think of some writers on the website the american conservative is it 3 years in this administration in election looming is that trump has not drain the swamp pieces actually taken it over he's running it now that's a little bit over the last. 10 days so really show that go ahead no no i agree and again a key attraction for many of to vote for trump is again this idea that he would
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pull them out of the wars that was interesting that. they did this discrepancy between the american leadership and the people because every kind of election has had the same following bush he won after clinton because it promised america would not be a global policeman and in tunisia to build a new nation with nation building then you had the obama he wanted changed and he's candidate and they're trying to promise you know we're going to pull us out of the middle east and all of this foreign conflicts it's going to be america 1st they get now he seems to be doubling down as well the whole see taking on iran is just if there were where do you go who would who to vote for it's so i think this this might cost him lection it's interesting and it's going to how it plays out of the. last 25 seconds go to you well it's amazing that probably one of the good things about it all is that for the 1st time in many years democrats are speaking out against the wars vali nasr on. in the pages of the new york times the person who
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supported the interventions in the in ukraine in your list why their son to says you're a new son nationalists a new war with the united states they would see us forced on them as a fight with the bully well that's true but the only problem is why did he cave and why did he said before that it never would have been said if it wasn't for the individual sitting up in the white house that shows how everything is warped. politics because of one man and your perception of abouts all the time we have gentlemen here many thanks to my guest here in moscow and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time remember rostock rules. descriptions sound up the even for the owners so how to choose this pet food
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industry is telling us what to feed our pets really more based on what they want to sell us the most necessarily good for the pet turns out may not be as healthy as people believe we have animals that have you know diabetes and arthritis they have auto immune disorders they can't allergies we are actually creating these problems it's a huge epidemic of problems all of them i believe can be linked to very simple problem of diet and some dog owners so heartbreaking stories about their pets streets the larger corporations are not very interested in proving or disproving the value of their food because they're already making it a $1000000000.00 on it and there's no reason to do that research. because we ponder the future and look into 2020 what fascinating stories will come our way there are often said on. this show that you can't have capitalism without
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capital of capital without a positive registration encouraging people to say and this next story this next whole show this next entire segment is going to be dedicated to this very notion. what holds as something to. be put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president or injury. or somehow want to. have to go right to be close to see what was before 3 of them or can't be good that i'm interested always in the waters in the. first sit. on my hands on guns and money i'm not one. to saddam.
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hussein to bouts of a time about what members of us have a time that we're in a sentence of on was about. what when or what in the side of both of. seen that going to him but i'm before but i caught on to him but i. fear not by now i'm by the i'm now by the. elite.
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libya's warring leaders arrive in moscow hoping to reach a cease fire deal to end the civil war in the north african country. and warns iran of the steps up its pressure campaign of sanctions antigovernment protests continue. over the accidental downing of a passenger plane which killed everyone on board. e.u. funds to boost infrastructure in east africa and prevent mass immigration. from human rights organizations driving modern day slavery speak with human rights watch representative about the claims. in directly supporting this project these are forced labor.


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