tv Cross Talk RT July 9, 2020 12:00am-12:31am EDT
we know. that. we like this. hello and welcome to crossfire we're all things are considered i'm here a little with the arrest and charging of the lane maxwell the jeffrey epstein saga takes a new turn what about the timing and the specific indictments what kind of defense can be expected is a deal in the cards and will justice be served. rostock
even jeffrey epstein saga i'm joined by my guest alex kristof r.-o. in athens he is the director and writer for the dram dot com and in milwaukee we have jennifer a master she is an attorney and author of the new book about the lawn unveiled all right crossed out rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciated ok let me go it was going to milwaukee jennifer you've seen the indictments i mean there are 6 indictments 4 of them have to do with traffic 3 years like you for 99 and 2 perjury charges rounding proceedings in 2006 why do you think it's these specific ones you think it's because the fed the prosecution thinks they can get this a stake i mean it's like iron clad slam dunk. well one reason that i think these particular charges are he has we have a new federal law that extends the the statute of limitations for.
victims that are still alive and so of the victims that have come forward that have been involved in the litigation they're still alive they'd be in late thirty's early forty's and it would be able to members of make a very credible as a victim the 2nd reason i think there's a lot that can be said for these particular charges there are certain prosecutors i know myself i've looked at these kind of questionably because they could have charged under a much harsher sentence given what's come forward but it's not uncommon during a grand jury proceeding or an indictment before an indictment is not uncommon when charges are 1st lodged if those aren't leaked to the media for them to try to strike a deal with somebody before or to strike a deal with somebody and i think in this case we might get a deal that was already previously struck with her and the indictment being proof of the u.s. holding up their end of the bargain where you did just the program and one. day what it is it is your feeling is it your feeling. that there were negotiations.
going on over the last year it seems to me maybe something with your gut feeling oh my god feeling is that there absolutely were and i think you know we're not used to this in america a leak free investigation we're really not used to our so our agency is now not having any leaks but apparently this was a leak free situation i think it was for many reasons one this is a woman who has multiple identities multiple names passports connections all over the world she could have easily escape certainly we saw headlines about different countries and states that she was then to think that she's right in the back on the new hampshire a lot of this doesn't make any sense i do think that there was a background deal especially after what happened with jeffrey himself they're not going to want anything to leak out or anything to be known about this so with all the people that are worried about what happened to her now i think the government has already got much of what they wanted from her and terms of striking a deal you know. looking at the specific charges it seems to me. but they feel
confident that they have enough that will stick i mean look we'll get a good at least that conviction on something. it's the same time this is kind of a it's kind of pivoting away from so many other questions that so many of us have about this strange case because they're open to a lot of multiple persons there are multiple personalities very well known very very well but by focusing very specifically on these charges it might not shed light on those issues and maybe i'm just speculating here that may be part of the process here that both sides agreed to go ahead an hour maybe i mean i think we are seeing a shift towards pretended to be honest i think there's a lot of talk now about presenter and his relationship with chill a and there's a lot of talk about that and we are seeing hints coming out of the u.k. and coming out of the media in the u.k. that just lame probably did have some sort of agreement in place and she has a clean already formulated and we see that
a lot of that's being leaked from her friend from one of her friend a confidant who said that she spoke with joe lane about a month ago laura goldman spoke with elaine such a lane will not turn over evidence or turn over any information on prince andrew because she values their relationship but but she did say that still ain't did feel about a month ago that the road was coming to an end and the walls were closing i believe the direct quote is that she felt that the road was coming to a close so obviously we know for at least a month the better part of a month maybe 2 that there were that there was some kind of negotiation some kind of wheeling and dealing that was taking place in the background in order to work to come to where we are today if it jennifer i mean i just can't help to get the feeling that the prosecution just wants to get a conviction i mean it's almost kind of like to wash their hands of the whole thing you know what i mean he does it with more. we delved into this one the case that
they seem to have on the list so the sitting sex from a minor i mean it's a beginning of the 1st decade of this century here i mean there's there's a cost of this involved and here there's a lot of murkiness of what they d.o.j. and i just can't help but feel that you know just want to get one conviction to be done with it because there's so many tens of worms that i think obviously a lot of people don't want to delve into but at the same time they made they've made a promise that they will come against this some kind of conclusion here go ahead jeff. it's a good point and it's a good question to be asking but there are a couple things in this case that i think actually it goes far beyond max well i think that the 1st thing is to see the department within the southern district of new york the prosecutors within the d.o.j. that are actually working on this case is the public corruption unit it's not the criminal unit sex trafficking human trafficking anything like that it's
a public corruption you know which means that this case goes far beyond even ms maxwell or abstain and into which public officials that there are and there are at least one public official that is involved that could include british royalty that could include any kind of government official or how this was involved so it is one point the 2nd are conspiracy charges it's very very interesting that the d.o.j. have made these conspiracy charges because federal conspiracy statutes state that anybody you don't even have to know the extent of the crimes themselves as long as there is a plan some sort of alleged plan and an overt act taken and further inside that plan it doesn't matter what the overt act is whether you through a plane or. something are set up a modeling thing or something else then you can be charged with part of that same exact conspiracy so the conspiracy charge itself opens it up to multiple other people i do not think this will stop at her if it had stopped with her and it would
have been a much more clear and distinct charge rather than conspiracy conspiracy leaves it open for the government to be able to put in new people and new evidence and you coconspirators well i mean oh it sounds like from what we just heard from jennifer there is potentially a huge dragnet i mean a lot of people get caught up into this but we have to remember that maxwells going to have her day in court and she's going to have her what she wants to get out in the in the public realm and her own defense here i think all of us following this very strange story. i have to assume i think correctly that she knows the names and dates and places and you know it considering it would be netflix. series that i'd be one was watching it a lot of names have been dropped there ok and gives everyone jennifer just said when it comes to conspiracy here this is potentially really huge but why do i still get this really terrible feeling they don't want to keep it very very narrow that
means they're working colluding with. the defense or. maxwell herself i mean it seems to me everybody will want to keep is narrow well i mean i hope that we get to hear from maxwell i think that's the fear that everyone has everybody germy get ahead of me on this i don't need to get caught about that do you keep it up it's like well i mean you said it peter that the question that everyone has is are we going to hear from maxwell because we didn't hear from epstein that's for sure and that's left a big question mark hanging over everyone's head about what's going on here no one really even knows what happened to epstein we don't even know who this guy really was you match the net net flix documentary yet makes a lot of assumptions and a lot of speculations but we still don't really know who this guy was where he got his money what he was doing was he working for someone else was he working on his own was he part of a government intelligence agency was backs while working for him or was he working
for maxwell even maxwell has a very color colorful and checkered past as well her family is definitely an interesting thing to take a look at her father in particular so i mean i think your fear is everyone's fear that's what makes this story so fascinating is it's taking so many different twists and turns god i hope we hear from maxwell but are we going to i don't know no one knows i think that is the 1000000 dollar question are we going to hear from maxwell because migrate. and all of this peter is that we don't find out anything new we don't find out anything a deal gets made it all disappears and that's the last we hear of it but this is a big big network that i'm confident of this is a big network with a lot of very powerful people involved in this game that i'm very confident of your generator. both of you created me on this and that's really good it shows you're
engaged but isn't it a sad indictment on the justice system that we all have great will we actually hear from her i mean i watched the indictment being announced lots on television ok and that was the 1st thought in my mind is that she should ever make it into court and what are you know raise their hand and take the open what we hear from her because what happened with whatever happened that you're it is an indictment of the judicial system is that we're now in a position we have to wonder if they'll even brought up. created a case that will actually be tried. i don't think anybody blames you or anybody else i mean it is not. it doesn't say anything that nobody trusts the justice system anymore because we've seen it year after year after year of cases fall through the cracks i mean yes we don't know what happens jeffrey have seen i hope that one day we'll find something because everybody believes that what we've been told is not what happened. and people feel like things are being held from the now
there are some factions there are such as national security concerns and things like at the you don't want being leaked out certainly had to deal with the d.o.j. before this we're glad that didn't leak out because who knows what they could have gotten in the meantime there you know was she was she wired in the last month where she was she on all all on this operation we don't know these things and so there are times when it's ok you know that she was part of an immunity i mean she was unnamed that she was part of an immunity deal i mean. as part of discovery can we learn about. immunity deal. i'm not sure i would imagine that we will not because the contacts that she has if we might not learn about it because if we're trying to restore so going back real quick to your point on how we don't trust the justice system i mean epstein this wasn't the 1st time he had been indicted or gone before a jury he was let go under the previous administration and so we've seen it time
and again i mean nobody knew who it was unless you were part of the un or circle of people and high influencers that she ran around in her circles which none of us in the general public really knew who she was and still recently so they were able to keep her influence on everything that was going on with that scene under wraps i mean i don't remember hearing a lot about this so i think right now the justice department is in a tough position there been a lot of people they found out who were doing some pretty sketchy things here and they're trying to keep this under wraps i do think i'm still trying to have a little bit of hope in this even if we don't you're going forward now even if we don't hear about the immunity deal. as we go to we're going to go to a short break and after a short break and when especially state. time after time called parisian to repeat the same mantra sustainability very important
it's accelerate transition to sustainable prize board sustainability. more equitable and sustainable well. they claim that production is completely harmless. because. companies want us to feel good about buying the products while the democrat is being done far away this is something else this let's get on to an even and i know. this is the moon and. we didn't dream and i'm stunned seemed to be best understood so when.
we go to work so you straight home. welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm curious about remind you we're discussing the use up. ok let's go back to milwaukee let's talk about a potential defense here i mean what is see i've been hearing and i suppose if you were going to be a good defense lawyer of maxwell she's going to pull a me too but she was the victim here how does that and as a female attorney how does the how do you go about that kind of going. that's going to be garbage you know what there are
a lot of oh let's just start out right now ok there are a lot of situations where a former victim might have partaken i mean the f.b.i. investigators have a lot of terms for it which are a little too crass for t.v. right now you know top top girl and bottom girl and things like that a lot of them were former victims i think we're going to see some of those there's some names of already been circulating as maybe involved but but naxal herself and alex brought this up earlier you brought this up you know robert maxwell her father and alex is correct on this has a long history and intelligence for intelligence u.k. intelligence different government agencies i mean this woman has been around for a long time she is pictured on the throne of british royalty she is sitting there how do you get access to something like that without having your hands there i think i think she was pulling the strings that have seen i don't think a jury is going to buy that she was this former victim plus one of the victims themselves has come out saying that nasa was not only instrumental in getting her and bringing her but showed her how to do things and did that you know that goes
far beyond what somebody would do and so i think i don't think a jury is going to buy that i don't think they're going to care and lest we forget the jails don't take too kindly to people that do things to children and can you imagine a women's prison how they're going to feel about that so i think maxwell has a lot of other concerns but a jury is not going to feel that in terms of a defense attorney position they can try to make that argument they can try to just go on the facts a regardless of your feelings this is this is the deal here that there are too many victims that have come out there remember her standing in the room and doing acts to these young girls herself. got a sweetheart deal here. his lawyers. one of them in the strategy was this to discredit all of the alleged victims here in this day and age i think that's going to be a pretty rough course the tape here. ok considering the the tender age of some of
these girls here me. and again being very very narrow on these very specific issues here that is going to be a way to keep it under control here the thing is that i guess what we need to know is that if there were negotiations before the end and i were in the house well birthday and if they fell apart why and i don't think anyone's going to tell the tell us at any time so. we're not going to find out and dershowitz is also undergoing a defamation case with virginia governor as well so he's he's also tied into this pretty pretty deeply i mean. you know peter that the whole thing is. we need to get justice on this we need to get some answers i said this during what was going on with epstein that if they don't get epstein and we don't understand exactly what's going on there is going to be hell to pay and sure enough we saw what happened with epstein and now everyone is now looking at maxwell and everyone
is happy they got maxwell but there's still people at this very moment who are saying we have not seen her we have no photos did they really get her is this all one big intelligence reuss is she going to disappear again i mean we need to get some answers here i mean i think the me you know roger stone i mean they called c.n.n. in vans they had the swat team in the floodlights and everything you know look at it but this case. we're getting some reports that that this was this wasn't exactly the feds knocking on her door and her coming along understand from what we're getting reports from from the new york post and some other mainstream media that there was an operation to apprehend her there were a tro and there were you know 2030 feds they they had this whole staying going on and they got her. he didn't destroy any thing. but this big stack coming along with a phone call saying come to the office and turn yourself in either so there's still
a lot of unanswered questions if they were working on some sort of plea deal and there was some negotiation going on you know you have to ask the question if this was going on then why did they have so many officers and and so many f.b.i. agents to take her in another question i have peter is there was a lot of misinformation as to julian's whereabouts where was this coming from there's a lot of articles saying that she was in brazil that she was in paris france just a week before we found out she was you know am sure we had credible sources quote a credible source saying she is in france she is in paris she's staying at an apartment 5 blocks down from jeffrey abstains apartment in france i mean everyone said ok that's where she is and then one week later lone behold she's in new hampshire so you know we're we're speculating right now but we need to get some answers here if we don't get some answers very very afraid as to as to what's going
to happen next the public's faith is a roading is eroding in the justice system you know again particularly and i gave the example of roger stone and you know that he and the justice department want to make a big deal about that i mean i mean everyone knows my opinion i mean this whole prosecution against roger stone this is just a farce but i mean in the case of maxwell that this is something that we have heard a lot about learned a lot about. there's a lot of accusations and accusations that are quite detailed of course we you know we have that we have a presumption of innocence that's the whole point of the process here but i mean you would have thought after watching that press conference on friday that they would like to show a little bit of their handiwork if they had been not that i'm aware of ok i mean just like alex said here i mean don't you have the perp walk i mean handcuffs i mean one picture not you know and that brings me to alex acosta i mean and i'm not i'm not going after him ok but you know he does we have our deal that that epstein
was given i mean really truly dreadful deal when it comes to justice i mean even the victims were he been informed about it and why i need to be convinced why there isn't going to be another house across this situation in this case convince me jennifer please. i'm going to do my best here i don't think there's going to be another allyssa cause a situation one cause is gone there's a new sheriff in town i think bill barr has shown himself to not only be a formidable adversary of criminals he's he's tried very hard despite media attempts in the us but he's tried very hard to separate himself from any kind of political motivation but bill maher has done a good job of following the rule of law that hearing to that end even if it hasn't hit all the headlines in the new york times they have cleaned house in the d.o.j. you mention roger stone it is a many parts about that are a travesty of justice system so is general michael flynn case his entire case was
a complete travesty of the justice system and i mean look at what happened there i mean you had the deal j. itself saying you know what we were wrong oh by the way all those other prosecutors have been fired or left and we're dropping these charges we're now seeing what's going on yes there are some other questions people can ask about the f.b.i.'s role in all that but the justice department itself i think there has been an effort to clean house i think there has been an effort to try to restore that i think that's why we haven't seen anything but but bill barr is somebody that knows what's going on and he is somebody i believe that is going to take action and i think the fact that we haven't seen the leaks i actually get more concerned when there are leaks to the new york times the washington post all these mainstream outlets when then when there are not so yes we do have a lot of questions now but remember unlike in the acosta situation even if we don't know what happened epstein he was in prison and he was going to go away for life or what he did and maxwell has now been apprehended yes we haven't seen that he has might be part of the clear range or whatever else whatever was leaked maybe some of
these leaks are leaks or to preserve her life or her safety but but i do think we're seeing a trajectory change yes it's slow yes we have lost faith in the justice department specifically from the previous administration and some of the things we saw with stone and with michael flynn but i think we're starting to see. a slow trajectory going in the right direction with a new sheriff in town with a clean house and with things that have not been leaked which he has lead to some questions but i do believe much sooner than we realize there are going to be follow up arrest because this is a conspiracy charge not trafficking not anything else it means there were public officials involved in this why and she knows intelligence community so well did she have videotapes was a blackmail operation was this a healthy way government decisions i mean public corruption puts that into question and so i think we're going to start seeing some arrests coming out of this somewhat of an avalanche effect if i can stay with you here i mean when i look at the end i mean it's from like you know you sort of like you know you. try but you know. well
is alleged to be part of what about all the other victims i mean jeffrey obscene apparently it wasn't a monster just for those 3 years ok what about the victims all of the victims or anyone that wants to. get some kind of closure with this trial that it's just from 99 to 40 but you know what about everybody else because the last question i had in my introduction is that will we ever get justice. here's the other thing and i am sorry to do this but i'm going to give a metaphor because it helps people to understand this so i often reference the movie taken when i was working with some trafficking organizations and things like that i found the take it on was a very good metaphor for that so in the movie taken the 1st one when he's going to try to find his daughter he goes through so many levels the kid who found her at the airport there's another group of people then this group of people and he finally gets to the guy with the mansion at the end that has a secret room an elevator where people are doing better get so that guy that guy
seems to be the one that was the key to all of it setting everything up arranging everything and then of course the final purchase is the girl now and then and i answer so what i say about this i could maxwell and the thing of the rich american are the rich billionaire who's at the end there that had that big house and he's arranging all this stuff i thought macs. well there what i think the government is doing right here now in terms of justice for the victims is not only getting this guy at the end cause that's the guy to get if you want to actually stop this from the other victims you get the max was you get the ones who are injured in this but you also get everybody else down the level and everybody by every member is a multi-billion dollar operation it is going to come out at some point how jeffrey f.c. not as many again as alex and we are speculating on this but nobody knows right now how this guy got his money but we do know factually that sex trafficking is a multi-trillion dollar. profit making enterprise throughout the world and so we're looking at billions and billions and billions of dollars that go into the trafficking and that's what we even know of not even black market money and so what
they're doing here and that's where i think the victims can have a little bit of hope is that getting this top person she has information on the purchasers because naxal has no job and epstein has no job and no resources if their finances if they're payers if they fall to the wayside and so when you start getting the finances when you start getting the big money behind this operation that's where it goes down and that's where troubles last 20 seconds or the irish knows everything about all 3 of us but they don't know how jeffrey obsidian got their money explain that to me last 20 seconds by prego they know they don't peter we're out there to share it with us they know they know there's always a money trail but i agree with what jennifer said there are actually a lot of people as well as backs well who helped epstein to do what he did so i'm hoping for a lot more indictments and a lot more names to come out i'm not saying they're as high in the network as maxwell but there are still a lot of people that the d.o.j. can go after any should go after them because you know the lore they're sure to
help should be paid if it doesn't happen you know one of a quite well i guess jennifer and i also want to thank our viewers for watching us your r.p.c. in it remember. some rumors assume terms he's. going to be known chris mihm founder you may. know you. know him and those he just can stuff it up with a ticket in your show that oh. and how to cut is a very international community i. mean it used to trick me you're going into. the disco cuba is looking for is the study says it needs to eat. for the pollution
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