coming up in the show has covered 19 continues to dominate the news we remember a time when it wasn't a coronavirus vaccine that the u.s. government was paying big pharma for but l.s.d. we investigate the u.s. a so-called poison or in chief city gottlieb around the cia's top secret mind control program m.k. ultra which arguably sowed the seeds of today's clandestine operations or around the world and they're all overseas students in the usa about to be deported because of coronavirus through no fault of their own we reveal a loophole that could save students from the violence of the united states immigration and customs enforcement agency accused of multiple abuses at the u.n. claims made violates international law all the civil war coming up in today's going underground but 1st this pharmaceutical giants today race to be the 1st to peyton de corona virus vaccine subsidized by the taxpayers of superpowers back in the so-called cold war the united states was paying big drug companies for a very different reason to manufacture l.s.d.

for the cia mind control project known as m.k. ultra the new book boys are in chief by former new york times foreign correspondent stephen kinzer sheds light on m.k. ultra and the man behind it sidney gottlieb he joins me now from cape cod in massachusetts stephen welcome to going underground before we even get to this amazing book your reaction to this $40000000000.00 pentagon money appearing to go into the next coronavirus relief package apparently your country needs you have $35.00 b.'s of a junior class attack submarine whatever that is and some kind of directed energy weaponry to target china there seems to be no aspect of public policy including how care in the united. doesn't become somehow the property are. it's true that in the bill or so. you were coronavirus by not all these military programs the horrors that playbook talked about. were justified.

why this concept that everybody seems to share you know that the world the freedom loving people that everywhere they see an imminent threat that was so dangerous how horrific in its scope that we must temporarily put us i some of our priorities and some of our ethical and moral principle but we'll certainly get back to those very soon as soon as the crisis is over the crisis never seems to end although communism is over as a book you know there's always terrorism there's china. the search for enemies in the united states is real as well as just tell me who sidney gottlieb is given the directors of the cia maybe your current secretary of state pompeo that alone as jeanne aspel now running the cia may not even heard of sydney going to leave before this book came out so they got lee was running one of the most important secret project in the history of united and identity was totally unknown to the outside world even inside the i.a.e.a.

there are only a vague idea of what i'm doing actually this guy had a license to kill issued by the us government i concluded after doing all the research that went into this book that he not only was the poisoner in chief as i have but he really was the most powerful under the lehrer of the of the 20. now you make a lot of allegations against him i'm going to say although we can't defame the dead . he said in a court case he couldn't remember things going to remember any of the kinds of things you talk about in the book but in 83 died in 1909. over here the statue of churchill is being attacked by black lives matter protest has to take us back to when churchill won to bio weapons so during the 2nd world war they knew what it for sure joe became convinced by intelligence

reports which were later proven job involves the nazi government was planning to arm some of the missiles or raiding london with biological warfare weapons there or churchill not having the silicon cells to radiate out their weapons that frankly raw. for him tens of thousands of interact bomb what he would hold in readiness to counterattack against germany so rough is not agreed to do that and he ordered the us army to begin a secret project to create the anthrax and they were being built in a factory in indiana when the war ended so it was sure urgent request to roosevelt based on what turned out to be false information put the united states and really the western world on the path for the biological weapon

and i'm going to get to the cia's recruitment of nazis nazi doctors in a 2nd but again the context here we're talking about is. korea of britain the united states maybe have killed a 5th of korea's population in the korean war you say in the book that the cia thought. release us soldier is this supposed to communism their apparent support could only be explained by mind altering drugs so what i was working through is of this project m.k. ultra the cia mind control project center america one of the questions that kept emerging in my mind was what landry's people in the early cia to believe that mind control was real why did they spend 10 years destroying so many lives in the effort to try to find a way to destroy human minds and number and place it there.

i think there are 2 reasons one of them has to do with cultural conditioning that of all the books in the movie sherlock holmes story the end around post story about mind control and note that i think subconsciously a lot of these people that generation the generation that ran the early cia were affected by the good and began to lose the order between fiction and reality but then there were a couple of specific episode. that felt sort of a scene done that already fertilized soil what is the one you mention in which show american prisoners of war returning from korea after the end of the war or in many cases to assign statements criticizing aspects of life in the and i ate some has confessed to going to many more crimes in korea if you had said they had dropped by a logical bob the north koreans of the united states is always never happened how

could they have said these things the only explanation that cia come up with was somehow their minds and even. by a hostile communist forces and therefore we see we're not speaking for the valves somebody was the root and therefore since we now have. evidence later proved to be un true that the communists have a mind control capacity or are developing it it's absolutely urgent that we as a defensive project become involved in the search or mind control and it was simply gottlieb's and i said before you can find a way to insert a new blood into somebody's brain you 1st have to find a way to destroy the mind that is in there he spent 10 years experimenting on most important addictive trying to find ways roy's

a human mind the human spirit the human body human to the cultural context i mean these ivy league white middle class people there's a class dimension to it but even they out on earth did they agreed to hiring nazis people implicated people who were involved in experimentation at the death camps i mean specially sidney gottlieb himself. his grandparents who by all of course eleven's it really is a fascinating part of this story so during at the very end of the 2nd world war. head of our u.s. secret service the o.s.f. . wrote a memo to president roosevelt saying that the nazi regime was collapsing it would be important for the u.s. government to try to hire nazi spy and bring them into working for the u.s. government rather than rejected this you know we're not going to hire any of those

. but after a few months roosevelt with that through that was in power and that process went ahead after the very immediate lee after the 2nd world war american intelligence officials were arresting many people in germany and they had files if you had a scientific background they would put a paper left on your file. therefore operation paperclip became the name of the project by which nazis were brought to the united states and this was a process that involved of a call only shake because the records of the people had to be placed all references to membership in the net after the gestapo had to be dyed it would be have little entries made into one of the family brand of the law so the 1st group that came were by then the 2nd group was the rocket scientist that was very blunt from then came the 30 bio warfare people the people who wanted to know how to control human

money i thought to themselves who's out there that has information that we don't have who's been experimenting people that find out exactly what portions of what kind of oil we're back on the human mind in the human body well if but not because interation doctors and the bio warfare experts all work for the 3rd reich the part about godly is particularly intriguing as you say godly jewish his parents emigrated from that go to europe at the beginning of the 20th century if they had not emigrate and you know sydney might well of wild up being the victim of one of those horrific so called medical experiments in the nazi concentration camp but in the event that didn't happen he grew up in the united states any didn't seem to have any problem working shoulder to shoulder with the nazi doctors who carried out the various maybe the senate says it worked on that committee on torture

about guantanamo about abu ghraib maybe they should definitely read this book because ironically i suppose predictable that they then these nazi doctors this stuff engage in a pulling torture injecting l.s.d. into african-americans and the tricity drugs you talk about mass. ois means in san francisco you're absolutely right the project went completely off the rails largely due to gottlieb himself so does the san francisco bay is just one example you're right it involves our respective experiments on human subjects and the numbers of people died god we also had all sorts of other interests one of them was the making 53 in the godly persuasions of the day to buy the entire world's supply of l.s.d. and use that for 2 purposes one was these horrific lee course of experiment into

trying to destroy human minds but the other were for less course of experiments including this bizarre program that he set up in san francisco he wanted to see if there was a connection between drugs like l.s.d. and other one and. so we got a guy in san francisco to work for a minute hire a ring of prostitutes there were job was to go out to the guys bring them back to a specially equipped apartment they were in there be said l.s.d. and their reactions would be monitored by some fat drug agent who had no scientific background it was just sitting on a portable toilet drinking martinis out of a. this was called operation midnight why backs. so this national security whorehouse was part of america's effort to send itself against communism in the $850.00 this is how crazy m.k.

ultra. seemed kids are all stop you there more about m.k. ultra in the poisoner in chief after this break was on thin ice despite black lives matter protests over alleged murders by us security forces for the next to feel the force of us no one force meant a 1000000 overseas students we tell you how you might escape the clutches of the immigration and customs enforcement agency as plans for mass deportations begin only civil coming up in part 2 going on because. you live in the age of just but we the people don't trust the government and the government doesn't trust you let me come to this decision of legitimacy and more importantly is there a way out is dialogue. during the vietnam war u.s. forces in neighboring laos it was

a secret war. and for years the american people did not know. how much it is officially announced country per capita. human history millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this small agricultural country jordyn we have. even today kids in laos full victim to bombs dropped decades ago is the us making amends for the tragedy in laos what help do the people need in that little land of mines. welcome back i'm still here with stephen kinzer discussing the cia's so-called mind control program m.k. . tell me about the unintended consequences the cultural consequences in terms of the sixty's counter-culture well the irony of this has to do with the experiments that gottlieb wanted to carry out of ordinary people so in addition to these uses

of l.s.d. is there on prisoners or on people who are unaware gottlieb also wanted to see how an ordinary person would react to all that. in a clinical setting knowing exactly what was happening so all over made a whole new market for l.s.d. research grew up people who'd come in and volunteer one of them one can key the author of what went on to become the great counterculture classic one flew over the cuckoo's nest actually he took it in a hospital and loved it so much that he got a job in the hospital in the veterans administration not bill and then all of our california that's what gave them the material purpose fantastic book alan ginsburg the radical poet was another of the very 1st volunteers to use the method of understood that the l.s.d. they were using came from the neon sleeve and that the i.a.e.a. clearly also then go on to do

a quote john lennon who said that the cia if not got me i understand the assassination program was pretty lifing tell me about the press there better known the castro castro raul castro che guevara's assassination attempts by both labor and also patrice lumumba so the title of my book poisoner in chief refer to the us doesn't you're talking about that in the campaign by the united in the late. foreign leader that me god. was the head of the chemical branch of the cia there was a logical that when the cia needed poison or any purpose including killing a foreign leader he would be the person they were turned in it was sydney got the. poison that was supposed to have been used to poison the chinese leader joe and why that plot was thwarted later on fidel castro became the target and it was

godly who created all those elaborate devices you read about not only the lp deal that the phrase i learned while writing the inspired language l kill elf as for lethal or help it was a little kill you he made those for castro but he also made things like a poison fountain and with an ultra fine so he wouldn't feel it went into your leg he made a poison wetsuit so that if castro put another and we need a way to get him so i do you think none of the plots were successful then when the cia decided at the order of president eisenhower to assassinate patrice lumumba the prime minister of the congo not only got lee make the point he carried from washington to the congo which i think makes him the only person in history at its best ever of carry government may poison to another country intended for the use in

the fascinating the leader of that country you know we don't know if you believe these assassinations go on in your book you quote richard helms as saying the principal driving force was attorney general robert kennedy and you say there's an irony that actually a cia acid in paris was receiving a poison pen on the same day as as malcolm x. said the chickens came home to roost and j.f.k. roberts a brother was killed whatever you believe about the kennedy assassination all of the or even in some way didactic you. if it was oswald alone it was because he was a very we know it go back to us making a doing that with castro it was revenge then with the and after it was because they didn't like him to giving up on. the us it was because if you missed it was that the i am a right out rogue elements of the national hero it was because they were angry were going to be over that shield the 2nd had never left the us government actually died

when i see the intensity with which we were the persian action q but you know it or think we're still angry don't castro but we don't know how many hundreds of millions of lives may be affected by all these foreign policy decisions just finally what's happened to camp dietrich which reaches so much in this book is associated with palm island because of course there is a conspiracy in fact law some of us representative from the republicans because of a smith said lyme disease could have been created by camp dietrich it's a disease 300000 americans a diagnosis annually off what is kind of the trick now well 48 you're going to now call was the center for development of u.s. biological weapons and biological agents in general it's now used for example purpose as a storage facility for. anti dote still possible with global disease. it was rare that cindy got we maintain

a secret well in which cia scientists concocted their voice carried out their other work. now it's not clear what kind of research is done on behind some of the closed doors or people but it's certain to say that all we don't know how deep the u.s. government is going into research for biological warfare sub which is limited by us or whatever the u.s. government doing in this area. it's happening behind closed door on that base in maryland same base that was the center m.k. ultra the place where the forces were abrogated. where there is the most. research anywhere in the world waiting weapon right here your good friend against record weaponization. of vital and or reduce your

role in this are covered by all who were in the investigation biological tools used. simkins i thank you. well away from the cia now to another arguably in from his us government agency ice or immigration and customs enforcement has grown a virus in black lives matter protests continue to rage it is threatening to deport maybe every overseas student from the usa but a leading immigration lawyer and former international student is fighting back fiona mcentee joins me now via skype from chicago thanks unified coming on more than a 1000000 international students given the u.s. student visas nasty here what on earth is being threatened against them. thanks for having the apps and i were kind of messed up height by by this and so it's actually earlier on this week at. change course with regard. for foreign students that were

made to kind of made hands and essentially they said that if foreign students were go in to be studying online and morris had an online only course that's the false master and they would not be able to do that while maintaining their their student visa status here in the u.s. now i know harvard and mit have already said they're going to sue the trumpeter ministration i mean this could really mean the mass deportation of say all u.k. students from the united states. well i mean that was certainly what i had put in there they're interactive that they issued a essentially last foreign students that were going to be attending online only courses with a few options and i don't think any of the options are grace and the 1st is leave the last 2nd to try to scramble to transfer schools and a few weeks notice assuming they can find a course in a school that is not online only and force the schools to to go on to kind of

change from online only to in person or face deportation so they're the options that they were left with iraq's into law it is to say that harvard mit have already say northwestern university in chicago and recently just joined in in support of harvard and mit position as well and i know you tweeted out a loophole a possible loophole i don't know whether you're being humorous about it i'll get to that in a 2nd 1st of all do you think this seriously is a recognition by those in power in the u.s. that students they consume is but they don't contribute anything to united states society when they're there i mean it's certainly a slap in the face of the foreign students who come over and i just don't understand it from an economic point of view all the economic data goes to show how much foreign students contributes just like even living here you know $41000000000.00 and they've put into the u.s. economy in the $2829000.00 academic here and just by being here their presence

alone created over 450000 jobs here in the you asked so in the middle of a pontiac when the economy is suffering on so many ways i don't know why it makes sense to try to ecstatic huge population of emmer and thought are clearly contributing so much. let's get to this loophole that could save students watching this program around the world they could be something like a one credit course that could save them from deep. you know their ability to return to the u.s. to resume studies well i know that the colleges and universities are looking into the office and there was provision for am type model where it's not online only potentially codes foreign students and to stay but i think if that administration trump administration ice were trying to force schools to open i think their plan hasn't really works because instead of doing that they've actually seen the

administration so i would advise foreign students to terri and communicate with your university and sit and watch this space to see what happens with this lawsuit but technically if the university has gone to online because of corona virus and they have just one tiny little course maybe half an hour long that is face to face that that would mean that they would not be deported by ice well they're trying to figure out those details so there was provision for it you know that the directive spoke about online only so i think they're trying to figure out exactly what that means and and kind of what are the promises of costs and so still being i think and investigated by the colleges and the universities but i know that i had rather. i think you know almost every professor from some of these big universities had volunteered to coleman to teach at n.p.r.'s lynn class because they know important the foreign students are both economically but also these are these are

people's lives and i used to be a foreign student myself so advocating for a current foreign student is something that i'm really passionate about you can just tell that the professors you know they care a lot about these students that are from all over the world and it's just not right and the possession that ice is taken given that the grown a virus is you know absolutely not under control in this country and aside from the nearly half a 1000000 jobs lost perhaps 41000000000 down to the u.s. economy 100000. maybe affected in terms of a student accommodation in the us yeah actually that was one of the things. i had done an entry on almost immediately multiple landlords got in touch with me directly to say that they were rantings that they releasing their places to foreign students and that if they were deported as you know they're asking me what's going to happen to their their apartment so actually recommended that they consider writing a letter to the added or their local newspaper just from their point of view because

you know it's not just it's bad enough that it's directly on the foreign students but there's a huge ripple effect from this on some of that includes the m. packs that it would have on landlords that are really saying to foreign students at the time of this interview joe biden has an issued anything from delaware about what he'll do if he wins the white house in november obama and biden deported many more than trump more than any other president in history or all the presidents put together obama was known as the deporter in chief maybe more than 2 and a half 1000000 i mean any sign that actually could be worse than trump on these overseas students issues no i don't think that there's any there's absolutely no way the biden is going to you know implement these types of policies. and i think that i've actually looks at that with online but i brads through. vice president biden's plan for immigration he's made a commitment to immigration reform to put it on the agenda in the 1st $100.00 days his plan is very comprehensive addresses that the humanitarian aspects of

immigration like the asylum seekers as you know in addition to looking so reform in the business immigration so addressing you know just the fact that the system as a dated and doesn't necessarily match up with the needs so there is no doubt in my mind there's no way we would see something like this from for your magazine thank you. thank you for having me that's of the show will be back on wednesday them of their eighty's 1st democratically elected leader but you will aristide overthrown by u.s. backed death squads until their washing hands join the on going to neutralise outside instagram the facebook. time of the time called her ration to repeat the same mantra sustainability very important it's accelerating transitions to sustainable transport sustainability stay number man on a more equitable and sustainable world. they claim their production is completely

hama's conduce nuclear. libby got into congress numbers and got it done designed to busan companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away this is something else this was the point and even as i read much of the steep mountains the sun moves and news when we didn't even on einstein seemed to be based on that understood look to see when. we go to work so you straight home.

your research it shows it delays it to cancer treatment in the u.k. due to the corona virus. could cause an extra $6000.00 deaths we speak to a man who only discovered he had advanced cancer when he finally got a much of delayed scan. this is devastating there's nothing else i can see it's new words. no words destroyed. i'm just devastated. serbia sees a 5th day of violent protests over the government's decision to reimpose a curfew after a surgeon.