tv Going Underground RT July 13, 2020 12:30pm-1:00pm EDT
up in today's going underground the 1st is pharmaceutical johnson a race to be the 1st to peyton de corona virus vaccine subsidized by the taxpayers of superpowers back in the so-called cold war the united states was paying big drug companies for a very different reason to manufacture l.s.d. for the cia mind control project known as m.k. ultra the new book boys are in chief by former new york times foreign correspondent stephen kinzer sheds light on m.k. ultra and the man behind it sidney gottlieb he joins me now from cape cod in massachusetts stephen welcome to going underground before we even get to this amazing book your reaction to this 40000000000 dollar pentagon money appearing to go into the next coronavirus relief package apparently your country needs you have 35 bees of a junior class attack submarine whatever that is and some kind of directed energy weaponry to target china there seems to be no aspect of public policy including how care in the united states doesn't become somehow the property of our arms industry
is true that are being built for so called response to a coronavirus we suddenly find all these military programs the horrors that playbook talked about you know they were justify why this concept that everybody seemed to share in. the world the freedom loving people everywhere made an imminent threat there was so dangerous how horrific in its scope that we might temporarily one of our of our priorities or some of our ethical and moral principle but we'll certainly get back to those very soon as there is right over there crisis never seem to end although communism is over as of now it's all here is and there's china on the search for enemies of the united. west just tell me who sidney gottlieb is given the directors of the cia maybe your current secretary of state bump a little in the gene as. well they're running the cia may not even even heard of
sydney going to leave before this book emma so they got was running one of the most important secret projects in the history of united and identity was totally unknown to the outside world even inside the i.a.e.a. there were only a vague idea of what i'm doing actually this guy had a license to kill issued by the us government i concluded after doing all the research that went into this book that he not only was the poisoner in chief as i have but he really was the most powerful under the legal american of the 20. now you make a lot of allegations against him i going to say although we can't defame the dead. he said in a court case he couldn't remember things can remember any of kinds of things you talk about in the book but in 83 died in 1909. over here the statue of churchill is being attacked by black lives matter protest has just take us back
to when churchill one to bio weapons so during the 2nd world war they knew what it for sure joe became convinced by intelligence reports which were later proven job involves the nazi government was planning to arm some of it the missiles or raiding london with biological warfare weapons there or churchill not having the silicon cells to radiate out their weapons that frankly raw. for him tens of thousands of the interact. he would hold in readiness to counterattack against germany so russia's not agreed to do that and he ordered the us army to begin a secret project to create the anthrax and they were being built in
a factory in indiana when the war ended so it was sure urgent request to roosevelt based on what turned out to be false information put the united states and really the western world on the path for biological weapons and i'm going to get to the cia's recruitment of nazis nazi doctors in a 2nd but again the context here we're talking about is. korea of britain the united states maybe have killed a 5th of korea's population in the korean war you say in the book that the cia thought. release us soldier is this supposed to communism their apparent support could only be explained by mind altering drugs so i was working through the of this project m.k. ultra the cia mind control project at the center of my book one of the questions they kept emerging in my mind was what led reese people in the early cia to
believe that mind control was real why did they spend 10 years destroying so many lies in the effort to try to find a way to destroy human minds and number and place it there. i think there are 2 reasons one of them has to do with cultural conditioning that of all the books in the movie sherlock holmes story the end around post story about mind control and note that i think subconsciously a lot of these people that generation the generation that ran the early cia were affected by the good and began to lose the order between fiction and reality but then there were a couple of specific episode. that felt sort of a season that already fertilized soil was the one you mention in which. american prisoners of war are returning from korea after the end of the war or in many cases
to assign statements criticizing aspects of life in the and i ate some has confessed to them anymore rhymes in korea a few have said they had dropped by a logical bob the north koreans of the united states is always never happened how could they have said these things the only explanation that the cia come up with was somehow their minds and even. by a hostile communist forces and therefore you see we're not speaking for the valves somebody was the room and therefore since we now have. evidence later proved to be un true that the communists have a mind control capacity or are developing it it's absolutely urgent that we as a defensive project become involved in the search or mind control and it was said we got these and i said before you can find a way to insert
a new mind into somebody's brain you 1st have to find a way to destroy the mine that is in there he spent n. years experimenting on most important addictive trying to find ways roy's a human mind the human spirit the human body you mention the cultural context i mean these ivy league white middle class people there's a class dimension to it but even they out on earth did they agreed to hiring nazis people implicated people who were involved in experimentation at the death camps i mean specially sydney gottlieb himself. his grandparents who by all of course eleven's it really is a fascinating part of this story so during at the very end of the 2nd world war. head of our u.s. secret service the o.s.f. . wrote a memo to president roosevelt saying that the nazi regime was collapsing it would
be important for the u.s. government to try to hire nazi spy and bring them into working for the u.s. government rather rejected this idea that we're not going to hire any of those. but after a few months roosevelt with that through that was in power and that process went ahead after the very end mediately after the 2nd world war american intelligence officials were arresting many people in germany and they had files if you had a scientific background they would put a paper on your file so therefore operation paperclip became the name of the project by which nazis were brought to the united states and this was a process that involves something called shape because the records of the people had to be placed all references to membership in the net after the gestapo had to be. there would be little entries made into
a good family grammar. so the 1st group that came were by then the 2nd group was the rocket scientist that was very one then can the 30 bio warfare people the people who wanted to know how to control human money thought to themselves who is out there that has information that we don't have who's been experimenting people that played out exactly what portions of our kind of boys that work on the human mind in the human mind well if the nazi concentration camp doctors and the bio warfare experts who work for the 3rd reich the part about godly is particularly intriguing as you say godly jewish his parents emigrated from central europe at the beginning of this 20th century if they had not emigrated and you know sydney might well of wild up being the victim of one of those horrific so called medical experiment in
a nazi concentration camp why in the event that didn't happen he grew up in the united states any didn't seem to have any problem working shoulder to shoulder with the nazi doctors who carried out those various maybe the senators. worked on that committee on torture about guantanamo about abu ghraib maybe they should definitely read this book because ironically i suppose predictable that they then these nazi doctors this stuff engage in a pulling torture and injecting l.s.d. into african-americans and the tricity drugs you talk about mass poisonings in san francisco you're absolutely right that project went completely off the rails largely due to gottlieb himself so does the san francisco he is just one example you're right bob our respect experiments on human subjects and the numbers of people die but god we also had all sorts of other interests one of them was l.s.d.
making 53 in the godly persuasions of the i.a.e.a. to buy the entire world supply of alan and use that for a human mind but the other for less course of experiments including this bizarre program that he set up in san francisco he wanted to see if there was a connection between drugs like l.s.d. and other ones and that so we got a guy in san francisco to work for him in a hire a ring a prostitute. job was to go out to go guys bring them back to earth specially equipped are they were very bad l.s.d. and their reactions would be monitored by that drug agent who had no scientific background it was just sitting on a portable toilet drinking more out of a pitcher this was called operation midnight
a lie back and so this national security whorehouse was part of america's effort to send itself against communism in the $850.00 this is how crazy m.k. ultra. seemed kinzer i'll stop you there more about and gayle join the poisoner in chief after this break plus on thin ice despite black lives matter protests over alleged murders by u.s. security forces are the next to feel the force of u.s. no one for some and a 1000000 overseas students we'll tell you how you might escape the clutches of the immigration and customs enforcement agency as plans for mass deportations begin only civil coming up in part 2 going on because.
you cannot be both with the yeah you like. my hands in my head i'm not on the. side of. the painted bows of a time that. but there was a date that was missed and if i'm left by the land that. morning the problem. being that i don't get him but i'm before they caught on to him by the. by the animal planet.
welcome back i'm still here with stephen kinzer discussing the cia's so-called mind control program m.k. ultra tell me about the unintended consequences the cultural consequences and does the 60s counter-culture well the irony of it has to do with the experiments that got the one of the carry out of ordinary people so in addition to these uses of l s the prisoner or other people who are unaware gottlieb also one of the seattle an ordinary person would react to a letter. in a clinical setting knowing exactly what was happening so almost overnight a whole new market for l.s.d. research grew up people who'd become involved here one of them with cam key the author of what went on to become the great counterculture classic one flew over the
cuckoo's nest actually he took it in a hospital and loved it so much that he got a job in the hospital in the veteran's administration of the middle of our california that's what gave them the material purpose fantastic book allen ginsberg the radical poet was another of the very 1st volunteers to use the method of understood that the l.s.d. they were using came from the new gottlieb and the i clearly also then go on to quote john lennon who said the cia if not got me and us. and the assassination program was privileged tell me about the perhaps their better known the castro fidel castro raul castro che guevara assassination attempts by going to leave and also patrice lumumba so who were hired a lot more and more poison or in cheap rebirth in the episode that you're talking about bettas the campaign by you know based in many. foreign leaders
sidney got me. was the head of the chemical branch of the cia there was a logical that when the cia needed poison or any purpose including killing a foreign leader he would be the person they were turned in it was sydney got the. poison that was supposed to have been used to poison the chinese leader joe and why that plot was thwarted later on fidel castro became the target and it was godly who created all those elaborate devices you read about not only al pill that the phrase i learned while reading the file i wish dealt ill else that for lethal or help it was a little kill you he made those for castro but he also made things like a poison fountain and with an ultra fine so you wouldn't feel it went into your leg he made. poison wetsuits so that if castro put another and we eat away it is
the obviously none of the plots were successful then when the cia decided at the order of president eisenhower to assassinate patrice lumumba a prime minister of the congo not only got lee make the boy carried from washington to the congo which i think makes him the only person in history at its best ever of kerry government may poison to another country intended for the use in the fascinating the leader of that country you know we don't know if you believe these assassinations go on in your book you quote richard helms as saying the principal driving force was attorney general robert kennedy and you say there's an irony that actually a cia acid in paris was receiving a poison pen on the same day as as malcolm x. said the chickens came home to roost and j.f.k. roberts brother was killed whatever you believe about the kennedy assassination all
of the or even in some way didactic you. if it was oswald alone it was because he was a very we know of the fact the us is making again that it was castro it was revenge if that was the end. it was because they didn't like him to giving up on the bed. yet it was because if you missed it with the i am right out rogue elements of the national hero it was because they were angry were going to be over here about it she'll the 2nd has never left the us government actually died when i read the intent to work on her action action here but you know it or think we're still angry don't castro but we don't know how many hundreds of millions of lives may be affected by all these foreign policy decisions just finally what's happened to camp dietrich which reaches so much in this book is associated with plum island because of course there is a conspiracy in fact law some of us representative from the republicans because of a smith said lyme disease could have been created by camp dietrich it's
a disease 300000 americans a diagnosis annually off what is kind of the trick now well 48 you're going to now call was the center for development of u.s. biological weapons and biological agents in general it's now used for example per store as a storage facility for. anti dotes to possible with global disease. it was rare that sidney gottlieb maintained a secret well in which cia scientists concocted their or you carry out their other work. now it's not clear what kind of research is done on the rest of the closed doors or people but it's certain to say that. although we don't know how deep the u.s. government is going into research for biological warfare sub which is limited by us or whatever the u.s.
government doing in this area. it's happening behind closed door on that base in maryland same base that was the center m.k. ultra the place where the forces were fabricated. where there is the most. research anywhere in the world waiting weapon right here you know or defend against record weaponization. of vital and or reduce your role in this our army of bio warfare and the investigation biological tools that we used a little. simkins i thank you. well away from the cia now to another arguably in from his u.s. government agency ice or immigration and customs enforcement has grown a virus in black lives matter protests continue to rage it is threatening to deport
maybe every overseas student from the usa but the leading immigration lawyer and former international student is fighting back fiona mcentee joins me now via skype from chicago thanks for coming on more than a 1000000 international students given the u.s. student visas nasty here what on earth is being threatened against them. thanks for having the apps and i were kind of messed up height by by this and so i was actually earlier on this week at i changed course with regard. for foreign students that were made kind of hands and essentially they said that if foreign students were go in to be studying online and morris had an online only course that's the false master and they would not be able to do that while maintaining their their student visa status here in the u.s. now i know harvard and mit have already said they're going to sue the trumpeter ministration i mean this could really mean the mass deportation of say all u.k. students from the united states. well i mean that was certainly what i had put in
there they're interactive that they issued a essentially last foreign students that we're going to be attending online only courses with a few options and i don't think any of the options are grace and the 1st is leave the last 2nd to try to scramble to transfer schools and a few weeks notice assuming they can find a course in a school that is not online only and force the schools to to go on to kind of change from online only to in person or face deportation so there are the options that they were left with into law it is to say that harvard and mit have already say northwestern university in chicago and recently just joined in in support of harvard and mit position as well and i know you tweeted out a loophole a possible loophole i don't know where you're being humorous about it i'll get to that in a 2nd 1st of all do you think this seriously is a recognition by those in power in the u.s.
that students they consume is but they don't contribute anything to united states society when they're there i mean it's certainly a slap in the face of the foreign students who come over and i just don't understand it from an economic point of view all the economic data goes to show how much foreign students contributes just like even living here you know $41000000000.00 as they put into the u.s. economy in the $2829000.00 academic here and just by being here their presence alone created over 450000 jobs here in the you asked so in the middle of a pontiac when the economy is suffering on so many ways i don't know why it makes sense to try to ecstatic huge population of emmer and that are clearly contributing so much. let's get to this loophole that could save students watching this program around the world they could be something like a one credit course that could save them from deep. you know their ability to
return to the u.s. to resume studies well i know that the colleges and universities are looking into the office and there was provision for am type model where it's not online only potentially codes foreign students and to stay but i think if that administration trump administration ice were trying to force schools to open i think their plan hasn't really worked because instead of doing that they've actually seen the administration so i would advise foreign students to terry and communicate with your university and sit and watch this space to see what happens with this lawsuit but technically if the university has gone to online because of coronavirus and they have just one tiny little course maybe half an hour long that is face to face that that would mean that they would not be deported by ice well they're trying to figure out those details so there was provision for it you know that the
directive spoke about online only so i think they're trying to figure out exactly what that means and and kind of what are the promises of costs and so still being i think and investigated by the colleges and the universities but i know that i had rather. i think you know almost every professor from some of these big universities had volunteered to coleman to teach at n.p.r.'s lynn class because they know important the foreign students are both economically but also these are these are people's lives and i used to be a foreign student myself so advocating for a current foreign student something that i'm really passionate about you can just tell that the professors you know they care a lot about these students are from all over the world and it's just not right and the possession that ice is taken given that the coronavirus is you know absolutely not under control in this country and aside from the nearly half a 1000000 jobs lost perhaps 41000000000 down to the u.s. economy hundreds of thousands. maybe affected in terms of
a student accommodation in the us yeah actually that was one of the things. i had done an entry on almost immediately multiple landlords got in touch with me directly to say that they were rantings that they releasing their places to foreign students and that if they were deported as you know they're asking me what's going to happen to their their apartment so i actually recommended that they consider writing a letter to the added or their local newspaper just from their point of view because you know it's not just it's bad enough that it's directly on the foreign students but there's a huge ripple effect from this on some of that includes the m. packs that it would have on landlords that are really saying to foreign students at the time of this interview joe biden has an issued anything from delaware about what he'll do if he wins the white house in november obama and biden deported many more than trump more than any other president in history or all the presidents put together obama was known as the deporter in chief maybe more than 2 and
a half 1000000 i mean any sign that actually could be worse than trump on these overseas students issues no i don't think that there's any there's absolutely no way the biden is going to you know implement these types of policies. and i think that i've actually looks at that with online but i brads through. vice president biden's plan for immigration he's made a commitment to immigration reform to put it on the agenda in the 1st $100.00 days his plan is very comprehensive addresses that the humanitarian aspects of immigration like the asylum seekers as you know in addition to looking so reform in the business immigration so addressing you know just the fact that the system is a dated and doesn't necessarily match up with the needs so there is no doubt in my mind there's no way we would see something like this from for biden you know magazine thank you. thank you for having me that's of the show will be back on wednesday that have their eighty's 1st democratically elected leader aristide
overthrown by u.s. backed that's what john that was and join the underground and you try to sound better than the facebook. seemed wrong but all roads just don't call. me cold yet to stamp out this day to come as a whole and engagement to close the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. you live in the age of just believe the people don't trust the government and the government doesn't trust the people i meet come to this deficit the legitimacy and
more importantly is there a way out is dialogue. during the vietnam war u.s. forces also bomb to neighboring laos it was a secret war. and for years the american people did not know. why not allow sell my son is officially the mousepad rebound country per capita. human history millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this small agricultural country jordyn wieber thing going to concerts happening. even today kids in laos full victim to bombs dropped decades ago is the us making amends for that tragedy in laos what help do the people need in that little land on.
the. black lives. control in new york while. her new video shows up police officer pinning a suspect by the neck. florida records another record daily increase in covert infections also the country's biggest surge since the start of the break a russian intensive care doctor based in new york sees the crisis is only like anything health workers have seen before. many of my colleagues including those who were here during the 911 attacks.
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