tv Cross Talk RT September 12, 2020 12:00am-12:31am EDT
german law makers class over the country's response to the allowed to poisoning up russian opposition activist alex seem to follow me but some pointing the finger at moscow had a fiery debate and the blood the stock. why does not only need such a level of protection most security steps and political motive is part of the putin system why would the russian government be so stupid that they even let the bunny fly out to germany instead of hiding him in russia. for all its records almost 10000 coronavirus cases in a single day the highest figure us so far testing some to struggle to cope with him on. microsoft accuses russia china and iran of trying to madeline the us election through cyber attacks on the trunk and campaigns all 3
countries do not take a shit. thoughts all from me for today kavanah and will be here at the top of the hour with the very latest in global politics next year on our team crosstalk separating me from reality and misunderstanding china. hello welcome to crossfire all things considered in this presidential election cycle both democrats and republicans claim to be tough on china but does that actually in fact what does the american public really know about the. today on this
edition of the program we attempt to separate myths from reality. processing china anymore i'm joined by my guest tom wilkinson detroit he's president and c.e.o. of t w and associates as well as a regular contributor to china us focus dot com and we have james bradley in new zealand he is a new york times number one best selling author of china mirage as well as host of his own pod cast untold pacific right gentlemen cross uprose in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok let's go to new zealand 1st james. china is mentioned over and over in this election cycle in the united states the both parties like to differentiate themselves it seems like that's the message is the same in following this election and how china is.
objectified i would say what is the biggest misconception about china as it's reported by the media. too big of a question it would take too many hours if we're going to talk about misconceptions about china no i would make the case that with china's population number one country in the world it's the least understood country by americans fewer americans have been that china over the last 400 years compared to going to europe but in terms of the election if i was president trump's campaign advisor this is what i would say to him i would say president trump there is about 11 swing states there wisconsin michigan ohio pennsylvania i mean you know what they are in those swing states in october november when you're campaigning there's going to be 2 problems for the voters number one vaccine coded disease whatever you want to call it lock down that whole bailey wick number one number 2 there broke no jobs
no money being a problem regarding the maybe even trued so you got these 2 problems disease and no jobs then guess what it's china's fault the disease came from china and joe biden loves china the jobs where your jobs i've got the answer joe biden's administration all short of it's china's fault and joe biden loves china you're going to win those swing states don't worry. ok well i wish it were that simple ok because. american industry has been hollowed out i would say a number of presidents allowed it to happen and watched american c.e.o.'s do it ok so i think we need like a church commission to investigate how this all happened here tom let me go to you i mean you're an old china hand same question to you because i've been living in
russia for 22 years and i every every single news cycle russia has misunderstood and i'd have to agree with james china's even more misunderstood and that's quite remarkable go ahead you know i remember reading i think it was in 2000 or 2000 who wants a national geographic's said that the american people are ignorant about all things asia and especially china and quite honestly it hasn't gotten any better of late this election cycle is not much different than the us i create with james that the amplifier is going to be around the plain china strategy the g.o.p. amount all that came out a few weeks about a month ago talks explicitly that when anything comes up blain china issue that to me is that may be a good political strategy the question is whether. that's really going to set us in a good position as we move forward as james pointed out 1.4 percent. of
people. a large economy growing all the time how are we going to assure that china doesn't become a nightmare more than a dream where we can find ways in order to work together we need to get past this election cycle and whoever is elected is going to have some repair work to do to assure that china's rise doesn't come that the u.s. has to motz ok well james if this kind of begs the question because. people are talking about a new cold war 2 i don't like that phrase because the cold war that all of us remember was very specific and it was very ideologically driven and this is not the case here i'd so it does does america need china as an enemy it seems that in american foreign policy always is looking for the next hitler and it looks like china is the next hitler in the minds of the form blocks because i'd like to point
out up until about february this year it was hardly ever mention that china's a communist country and the communist party of china they constantly pound away at that and that's obviously an echo to the cold war that we all lived through. this is a very old tradition in american politics in american history that the chinese if you listen to pompei own all the spokespeople there's the chinese people we love the chinese people all the cheney's haters say at 1st the chinese people are wonderful hardworking people we have nothing against them but if those commies so 200 years ago it was the emperor the chinese people were great they all want to be just like us christian potluck dinners but it's the emperor that stopping them from becoming americanised and then it was my pajamas he was keeping the top people down if we could just get rid of mao the chinese people are going to rise up demand
democracy and now if you listen to it there is no more china in pompei i'll speak it's the c c p the chinese communist party as if that's like 3 guys and if we just move them put them in another room everything's going to be ok there's 90000000 people in the chinese communist party this is this is the largest i call it a mandarin you know the old mandarins there's the emperor and the mandarin beijing 90000000 chinese communist populations larger than european countries very i. competent people who have to rise through a meritocracy to get where they are and we're going to push this aside the chinese people are very happy with their their government relatively nothing's perfect but look at the accomplishments of the chinese communist party from the chinese side then you'll see that pompei is just making this up yet they come to one of the
things that. you know when i when i look at media coverage of china. there is this amazing unwillingness to say the obvious of what is how his china has changed in the last 40 years i mean you always hear they're building more nuclear weapons and they're building their navy and you know. their military technology but they don't talk about how many people per pulled out of poverty and how china is on the cutting edge of so many technologies right now because you can't admit that because it will then you have to look in the mirror and look at your own failings and this is what american elites can simply refuse to do is it it's not the success of china it you know they don't want to talk about the success of china but they certainly won't admit they're all of the neo liberalism and how that is really damaged the united states its economy and its middle class. if you take a look at what's transpired and then in the people's republic of china over the
last half century clearly there's the good the bad and the out. and if you point out the bad then you're interfering in china's internal affairs and and you can get banned and pushed aside as it's relates to working with the party and others within china but as you pointed out peter there has been in the fact is that china's more people out of abject poverty then and we have people in the united states of america perhaps double that number as we look at trying to. to hold china back that's not going to happen we're going to think that somehow or another that we're not sunk our chest and china is going to. tip to the united states of. wishful thinking and so while we need to think it's a strategy to address the issues the real issues which china between the united states china and other democracies we also need an investment strategy in the
american people when we take a look at what china is doing around artificial intelligence big data technology it's not just the factory of the world anymore they're in the game to which i'm an old you're going us box grew up in the washington d.c. suburbs and when i got into the ranks you know with my best friend i was there to win and it should come as no surprise to us i mean i find it kind of amazing that people say china is looking to beat us well no candidate. who strives to be number 2 and so china is going to be there so the question has to be whether it's dividing their trauma whatever's going to be the leader what are you going to do to invest in infrastructure in america our roads bridges airports the train system i mean it's a joke compared to what you say the investment of the chinese people so what are we going to do to invest in in education work or development research and research and
develop those are the issues that we need to focus on and while we point to the bogeyman of china that isn't doing a darn thing to the people that james talked about in those midwestern states i'm one i'm here in michigan we certainly have been hurt not only by globalization and china but automation technology which is really reaped attic and has been similar to the economic tsunami that goes in 1000 is unleashed on the world you know james i'm really glad that become. engine this because you know the competition we elise all 3 of us i'm sure were brought up competition is good because it brings out the best in you and it brings the best out of your opponent as well but it's because china is just different and it must be they must be unfair they're cheating that they're not playing on a low level of playing field you know you always hear all these excuses here not just as we just heard the u.s.
just refuses to invest in itself and its people and this is what happens ok it's no surprise this is happening and and in tom's absent chinese here too out there to weigh in and that makes perfect sense to me and it we need a policy to bring gauges that that avoids conflict obviously and actually competition can find. a profit for both sides if you look at it in a in a rational way if this is history great powers rise and fall maybe in one of these moments now go ahead chase you know i agree with you that there's tectonic plates plates changing is bigger than just the u.s. and china a lot of changes taking place but within the china u.s. situation yes they want to win and in my book it goes back to remember back in the 1990 s. when we had newt gingrich shouldn't bill clinton and sex scandals and and the new york times is full of 5 pages of detail about sex and then we moved on to bush then
we had to take trillions of dollars and put it in the sand in the middle east well in the 1990 s. when we were. arguing about nonsense the founders of weiwei were sleeping on cement floor dreaming of 5 g. they're worried about their next meal. china was you know right now we're surprised you know china i am and all this hijacking we've got to invest in we've got to get garments that i was touring in china in the early 2000 making these speeches we've got to get goat we've got to stop investing in blowing up sand and start investing in our own country there's a race for the future and i could see it happening in china but you know we're going to be here dissin 2016 no one is you did it ok i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion of perceptions of china at stake.
know if i suppose that our children a tool in between gold. from me was very poor i thought i was doing my best get back to school which side will have the strongest appeal. welcome back across town where all things are considered on peter lavelle to remind you we're talking about perceptions and misperceptions of china. ok let's go back was go back to detroit you know tom one of the things that i have been observing here particularly if there was a pentagon report on the on the defense department about assessing china and it was pretty grim reading and i'd like to point everyone out there's a wonderful article at the american conservative that all sums it up i think it's
on their front page. but it seems to me that there's always this kind of knee jerk response when there's a. if the pentagon is you know it's a hammer and everything it's he's in the world is a nail ok and and we've seen in the way we've talked about previously the 1st part of the program is that when ailes america is not necessarily china threat it is the inability to respond to that threat and i will invoke you know the military industrial complex this is a this is another gravy train just like take korean peninsula which is the gravy train for if they don't change the status quo is great because everybody's making a lot of money don't take it with nato because everybody's making a lot of money the same thing is going is happening now with china and sitting down 18 china. as the as a peer power ok which i think we all should do admit it at least on most metrics here but you know what's the plan for for military conflict it seems to me that is so counterproductive that really what we really needed for that kind of
relationship that we should have with china go ahead let's really goes back you know we're not in when i reflect on it current up in d.c. in the sixty's and we didn't have any relationship with china i remember 2 sayings my mom telling me to ickes the children are starving in china i still have the onload to mail those peas to the children of china and my dad telling me to stop digging in the backyard because i'm going to let the commies them out and i'm going to fall into china. but i did in fact african a children's book i'm in the process of getting to publish where i talk about you know that i've fallen into this hole that my dad told 'd me and i look back from 1063 falling into the hole and waking up in china in 2020 and i look back through the hole to america and i see the challenges that we are facing whether it's split food insecurity unemployment the disaster on the response to the global pandemic you can blame china for their slow response but we
have to take a look internally of what we did after we know we have serious problems in this country to address the last thing that we need to do is be going on some military it better and spending trillions of dollars in that time imagine if those dollars the james talked about a minute ago. did invest over the last few decades in the people of the united states of america and in other western democracies in making this world truly safer for us all i think that we would see a different view of america when i look back through that hole that i fell into and so right now china is not just eating our lunch they're
eating our dinner as well if we don't get serious about invest in america and i have continue to have these problems but you know what i worry about time is that is that china will be the excuse not to invest you see what i'm saying this is the same thing the same mines that you know you know the middle east is a pretty cheap backwater of no strategic value to the united states whatsoever the world is 0 wash with oil there's a there's still. they go by a huge abide to stray shouldn't won't we're going to get him we're going to go back into syria and you know and we're not going to pull out troops here i mean this is always an excuse not to invest in the american people you know james i was in beijing i think was 2 summers ago and i was obviously invited to london bridge presentations and very i mean it was amazing trip and i as a big talker i always was asking questions and i asked the same question to i'd say like a dozen people and say what is the size of the middle class who's in the middle class
james you know what i got the same answer each time we're all the middle class and that is such a remarkable statement and that shows a level of competence so what when i went there and came back i came away with the following they know where they're going they know how to get there and they know they will get there and that is the sense of confidence that i've never seen before maybe when i was a child in america in the midwest that was an american way of thinking it's not it that the case anymore and so when when i look at china you know they need all of this chest beating the chinese just brush it off you know we're going to get we're going to get to it and you know and if you want to get in the way fine but we're going to get work at where our destination and i think that that's an assault confident society that i've never seen. since my child go ahead james you know i have never heard anybody say that but that's exactly was my 1st impression when i 1st went to china it was that these guys are better outro while they know who they
are they know where they're going and eat in their bodies just hope the way they help themselves talk to you not arrogant but we're one 4th of humanity you know we have this long is story we know who we are we know where we're going. america is america doesn't have those plans we just have the next election look when john kennedy took over from eisenhower eisenhower said your biggest problem is laos. kennedy didn't know anything about laos he reaches out for the levers that a president might have been lalas and what were they they were a cia secret airline laos becomes the most bomb spot in the world with china we reach out what do we have do we have like 30 years of mandarin learning like sputnik that we started 30 years ago to you know do we start our wa ways in the 1990 and we don't have any of those levers we have the military lever so we're
we're confrontational in the south china sea and in the himalayas now we're in thailand trying to do things and you know that that's that's all we've got and we should have more we have to change this and the time is not a go ahead you know that is it that is clearly a part of it but the other is we're disinvest in ways that as a really frightening to say you know has announced today that we're taking a 1000 students out of china and there's 300000 students that are time studying here and there in america i mean i believe that a future leader of china is in one of our universities today so how we build this relationship and develop those soft power connections are going to be vitally important and where roading a lot of the bridges that have been built between the people at the subnational
clearly i think our congress and president should be dealing with some of these national issues you know unfair trade or theft as intellectual property or tension whether it's in the middle east or global economic theories but it's a sub national levels of governors and mayors from tenants to schools university presidents excessive we have to find ways to build that cultural educational and economic bridge between the 2nd and the 1st largest economy in the world to think otherwise is to dream. and nightmare you know james that the fundamental problem as i see it is that we always think of it we're told to think about china as it when you think in terms of its geography and the communist communist ideology the party the leader but i think you know it both of you knowing chinese history china thinks of itself as a civilizational experiment a phenomena it goes way beyond this c.c.p.
ok and the problem is here we have a we have the largest population in the world that thinks of itself as a civilization for the good and then you have american exceptionalism and this is what makes it that's why i don't like to look at the cold war with the soviet union but now we have a phenomenon here of south america the american athletes are self-confident in american exceptionalism even though they betray it all the time they played lip service to it ok and this is this clash right here because the u.s. is incapable of. and acknowledging appear a real peer because the soviet union was never an economic threat ever and there was almost no trade with it ok this is such a top a totally different situation right now and i wonder if the american mind mindset is capable of adjusting to appear go ahead james.
i think maybe we're not capable of adjusting to appear if you listen to. you know the pump alles folks that he has out talking this and china thing and if you listen closely in the 3rd or 4th paragraph when they get to that essence of the threat the threat is a american dominance the threat is america that china might become a leader there you know china's not going to bomb chicago china does not want to invade you know go around the world and invade argentina what china wants to do is become a better china and america is unable to accept that for for a number of historical racial emotional reasons and we're surprised that that were so challenge that this point well what tom just said about the challenges in america and we have to rebuild i imagine he and i were talking this way about 20
years ago you know at some point america's either got to get it got to get on the train and compete or you know what we could be a rich number 2 so what if china is the number one economic power in the world and we're number 2 we could double the size of our economy in that world but psychologically we don't we're we're not allowing ourselves to think that these chinese really have their act together you know given right in america get streaming number one. you know that old saying under 2 tries. and china has and trying hard for over 4000 years. and certainly as a struggle to the century if you only you know the asian from 1849 i think or you know. kind of get back to where they were and a lot of people forget that china was the world's largest economy probably you know 20. 18 of the last 20. 21 centuries to soak somehow are not the
water reached in its own level should come as no surprise to us we had to get up every day and compete to work to remain on number one and as james pointed out. if china because countries do surpass other countries if you look back in our world history it happens i think as they say on the straight stuff happens so what are we going to do to assure that their rise doesn't come and are the ones you know be james it seems to me that. the thinking is reverse and we've already touched on it is that if you make americans stronger and give them a future and give them certainty then then that's a self-confident country on the world stage it's not a self comping country the world stage because most people feel alienated from it and no one is everyone has the american people what they think about china we're
just told what to think about china and i think that is a reliability it's much better to have a rich country where people have something invested in it and i think then you would have a very different america and and just relying upon that on the military but we've seen you know particularly since the end of the cold war that leads to an entry treasury a lot of dough dead american soldiers and in the human casualties of these expeditions it's been quite tragic and wasteful here are you gentlemen that's all the time we have here i want to thank my guests in detroit and in new zealand and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time remember it's. the world.