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tv   Cross Talk  RT  June 16, 2021 3:30pm-4:00pm EDT

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what exactly put some hard to say to a little girl in canada. it's great that you will, 9 year old daughter is interested in this issue. and the answer is very simple. you have to look around and say, you see how beautiful this world is. and adults, the leaders of the 2 countries, the largest nuclear power, is a meeting in order to make this world a safe, reliable, prosperous home for all inhabitants of opt on it. wow, that's it from us. it has been a wild ride for the last few days. i'll tell you that we came, we will given such a beautiful view, we will give an unbelievable guess. i got to work with pizza. i've had wonderful company. we've had some lots. we've taken care of. some serious business and i don't have all the people yet. thank you so much. all of you who've joined us here on our t and from geneva, goodbye. i
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ah ah. these are the 4 people who pulled the trigger. survive something on survival. one of the hardest things that i had the face was not having a face. i had a low expectation that accepted their accept the fact that i made that appointment . we had no fears. del change pretty fast for shots. different stories behind the bullets.
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the who's hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle towards the summit divided administration pushed for a summit with russia. moscow agreed what the biden people hope to achieve, remains unclear. we are told the white house wants to restore predictability and stability. what could possibly go wrong? the. i cross talking the biting summit. i'm joined by my guess, daniel mc, adams in lake jackson. he is the executive director of the ron paul institute for peace and prosperity in osler, we have glenn diesen. he is
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a professor at the university of south eastern norway as well as the author of the new book, great power politics in the 4th industrial revolution. and here in moscow we have maxine switched off, he is the director of the center for advanced american studies at moscow state institute of international relations. alright, gentlemen, cross talk roles. in fact that means it can jump anytime you want and i always appreciate it. let me go to daniel and lake jackson 1st. i have a simple question. it's really short. why is this something happening in the 1st place? i say, after all, ever since it was announced, i still haven't figured out what's the point of it. go ahead, daniel. well, in washington, isn't a prison of its own making us relations with russia or have been a disaster. and there's really no easy way out. the short answer to your short question is there needs to be a summit because of what happens recently in ukraine when the us was provoking was coating lensky, to make a move to make a move. and russia responded very quickly with 75000. well, i'm trips and the united states realize, oh crap,
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something so series is about to happen. and days after that happened is when biden called and said, hey, let's have a summit. so it's, they need to find a way to back down from what they've started. okay, glenn, weigh in on that here because i think that's very, very interesting. maybe for what, for once in a very long time, they realize how bad things could get by provoking russia through a proxy like ukraine. are there other reasons in your mind for the summit? because daniel gave me a good one. is it a good enough one? go ahead, glen. well, i agree with daniel that the crisis in ukraine was all spurred, deciphered by, by the culture the summit. because holding the costs in 2014, you know, you were the means agreements. us the reached agreement for political settlement, however, was never happy with the terms of agreement. that's the washing spent 7 years trying to ukraine law. also, mounting is great economic, political, military pressure and russia. couple of course with this information more. so the objective, renegotiating the means can agreement, obviously fail,
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rasa responded to the build up of the new air forces. so what we, instead now see if russia has really cemented its red lines against further native expansionism on its western borders. and at the same time, it has innoculated itself from further sanctions by re wiring its economy increasingly towards china. and i guess this is the key problem. one of the ukraine gamut has failed, but 2nd, china now emerging of the real principal arrival of the united states. so there's fire in washington to try to stop pushing this to your ation join us together. ideally split them apart, and again, there's a lot of indications this being the keep the mom by miss chip. i mean now with the g 7 summit, the new k m, the main goal it there. so they're also to mobilize therapy against china. so it gets next in line, this, russia, and they said this is kind of the objective to make. russia takes a bit away from china, but again, this is united states was intensified as development. okay, well max,
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let me go to you. i mean, western median politicians love to talk about russia, almost none of them know anything about your country. so i mean, collectively what we've heard so far is that they overplayed their hand. washington, i mean over the plate overplayed their hand in ukraine and now in 2021 in the summer of 2021. 0 my goodness. rush in china are getting close together. i mean, you know, any blanket you are, no. kissinger you are no bismark. ok, i mean, this is a catastrophe that is self inflicted. here give us the perspective because it's very rarely given in western media. what is the perspective coming out of moscow? go ahead max. well, i think there are 2. there are 2 things that policymakers in moscow, the 2 perceptions of russia, that policy makers and moscow distinguish when to look at why the bi ministration proposed the summit. one is the perception of russia among the american political class that sees russia not as a peer competitor to the united states, but as
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a mere kind of spoiler in the international system. and it distracts the united states from confrontation with china, distracts american attention and resources. so it's important for them to make this confrontation manageable as many by the people mentioned. the 2nd perception, however, is the one that was aired by the american military and intelligence community that does see russia as a key threat to the united states and 3 particular domains and nuclear arms and hypersonic arms space and cyber domain. and in these 3 areas, kind of make up for the new strategic stability. and that would actually work very much by administration. so they want to make these domains manageable predictable in terms of how russia operates in these domains. so they believe again, as, as many policymakers in moscow look at it that it's important to put these domains under control to put russian capabilities in these domains under control. and
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ensure that there is no risk of direct military clash. but continued this confrontation on this kind of ideological political and economic pressure levels. that's very, very interesting is that washington can manage russia. i mean, i, again, i, this is kind of the perception that they can snap their fingers and people are going to line up an order. i mean, is it, that time a is over? it's been over for a very long time here. daniel, they're coming. this is coming out of weakness, they don't really know what to do. i mean, how to manage russia in those domains. i have no idea what that supposed to mean. i do know it means a lot more defense spending. that is for sure. and the more and did to glens point, the more of this attempted management be controlling behavior. this is cold, war language is ridiculous. here the more russia is going to really looking to turn to reliable partners i. e, china. so it's a self defeating exercise. go ahead,
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daniel. well, i think a fundamental see change occurred just a few weeks ago in alaska. and i don't think it's in digested completely, which is when tony blinking came in. so sorry, sat down with the chinese delegation and started let lecturing them about the international rules based order. and yes, she was having none of that. he basically said, you sit down and listen to us. you're not going to negotiate from a position of strength, which is the u. s. as you know, sort of world view, and that's what biting think he's going to do tomorrow. you're not going to do that . you're not going to lecture us. we see through you, we see past you, all you do is go around the world breaking things, destroying countries, people and we're just not having it anymore. and i think that was a sea change. that was the beginning really of the end of the u. s. empire, maybe the middle of the, maybe the end of the end of the u. s. empire. when that happens, you know, a, glenn, it's very interesting. people have asked me often about the, the anchorage fiasco. again,
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self and do self inflicted. what if they tried to do it in a, in, during the summer here, and i would just turn around and say, doing a saw a freedom of speech. i would have what's going on with julian, it's like, oh, and you have all of these hundreds of people and consolidate confinement for loitering, january 6 and you know, so a lot of them don't have lawyers. they're not given access to evidence and being compiled against them. and you talk about the rule of law, i mean this daniels point to be you can't lecture other countries on these issues anymore because it's hypocrisy and puts at the end of the day. that's not what this is about as opposed to how to states and the international order is supposed to function. it's not about a trial and in a 3rd country here, i mean, they just get way or with their skis here and they get the purpose of the things. all of us are old enough to remember what some it's really were about. and they were really well prepared for, and they had a reason to meet,
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but they don't really have one go ahead. glen well, wants to lecture russia about his domestic affairs. then obviously there are lots of russia can lecture united states about, however, they have a mechanism against this in the united states that it's a rush points out and he see or attempts to hold us my same standards than washington argue. this is what about them? we suggest that are unjust, and i will point out that this is very much structured accordingly. because when the united states approach and tries to lecture russia, be aware that they really do the refer to international law because in international law, principles such as an equality where the same rules should apply bread one. instead, you hear the words rules based international order repeated over and over again. and this is a big difference in the rules based international order. they include the so called idea of democracy, human rights, but is applied to promote sovereign inequality. that is,
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united states should have the prerogative to the fair in russian affairs. russia not be allowed to trend us. you know, the us can intervene in other countries. russia came out of the u. s. can ignore international law and un, if it's deemed to serve this value while russia came out, because it's not being to be the champion of human rights. so this is very much an idea about human rights and democracy should be a way for the united states to interfere in the rest of the chairs, but not all the way around. and so it's quite important that this some article is set up for, for mutual criticism, rather lecturing and other. i just got the point. $11.00 interesting remark which is at the g 7, g 7 summit now and you k, this finished and, and, you know, had their final notes in the statement. they warn russian not to interfere in western countries and then followed by comma and then along the list of wisdom interfering with russia, dictating how they should organize their side. so they're not seeing the pocket
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being on the mental to these rules based international or now because they're ideologically, they're ideologically blind. ok, they can't see their own hypocrisy, their own deceit. i would even say, let me go to max here. you know what? the biggest problem is, is that they're frustrated to bite and people are frustrated. the deep state, the media is it rushes in a position to say one simple word? no. and they can't get around that max. yeah, i think the biden actually called this concern and one of his press conferences after i think, and she's 7 when he was asked why, you know, president putin does not change his behavior given the amount of sanctions. and he said, that's because he's a lot of my food. right. so i think the recertification within the administration, that's a watch of things that they may be trying to impose during the talks in geneva tomorrow may simply not fly well. and if indeed, that the russia, us some goals of the way that the, the american chinese talks went and alaska,
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that would, you know, the russians perhaps would be more kind of polite in their response. but it would still be very uncomfortable for before the administrate straighten. okay. i have to jump in here, but i mean, i think, you know, i mean, mr. love, rob did give a good addressing down to burrell from the e. u. i think that could happen if that were to occur gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break and after that sure break. we'll continue our discussion on the biden summit. stay with our team. the aah! join me every thursday on the alex salmon show. and i'll be speaking to guess from the world, the politics sport. business. i'm show business. i'll see you then. me . oh,
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when i would show the wrong when old free. just don't you? yes to see out the same because the after an engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart and we choose to look for common ground in one of the worst ever mass shootings in america was in las vegas in 2017. the tragedy a close a little of the real last vegas, where many say elected officials are controlled by christina learners. the dangerous shooting revealed what the l v m p d really is. and now it's part of the spin machine to the american public barely remember that happened, that just shows you the power of money and las vegas,
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the powerful showed their true colors when the pen demik heard the most contagious contagion that we've seen in decades. and then you have a mayor who doesn't care to, here's caroline goodman, offering the lives of the biggest residence to be the control group. to the shiny facades, conceal a deep indifference to the people vice gonna be saved if they were to take an action. absolutely, keep the registering and keep the slot machines doing. this is a money machine is a huge cash register that is ran by people who don't care about people's lives being lost. the welcome back. across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter labelle, to remind you we're discussing the potent biden summit. ah, ah. okay, let's go back to daniel daniel, what are the motifs that we've seen since the end of the cold war?
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but particularly since the 4th regime change of the democratically elected government and ukraine in february, 2014 is it. you see this motif with politicians in the media is that, you know, they have to find a way to give a, put in a way out, you know, get it, you know, get him on an off ramp. so from this bad malign behavior, but it doesn't work, it has, it hasn't had any impact to quote unquote, changing behavior, which is such a conduct way of approaching it. is there any possibility in, in the next, during this generation to readdress the us russia relationship because i'm really at a complete loss because the way it's structured right now, it was like a simple thing like giving back the diplomatic compounds that were confiscated for no real reason, but even giving back those compounds. that's appeasement. okay. i mean, it painted themselves in such
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a terrible corner that they were actually kind of just put themselves into some kind of suspended animation because they have just been there's no avenues to move forward because then you're just called a traitor or a potent puppet. and you know, and then that's, these are 2 very important countries. ok, how do they break themselves out of it? or is it just really hopeless and we just have to move on where you are, right peter. it's an absolutely toxic environment in washington. there's literally is no wiggle one. this is a prison of their own making if biding were somehow, for example, on the iran situation of, if biden were somehow to ease up on sanctions, you would have. 2 members and senators from both parties screaming, as you say, appeasement appeasement. the u. s. foreign policy has locked itself into a prison. it can go nowhere further, but forward toward its own. do my radically, and it's interesting, you know, you said something very profound earlier peter, which was very simple. the ability to say no. and that ability to say no is
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something relatively recent and relatively new. and it came about because of washington's own behavior toward the rest of the world. washington has made itself irrelevant by sanctioning everyone else the world body politic has had to find to send out new snaps the new sinews and new modes of communication. the u. s. s. port, russia and china together, the u. s. has put iran into that axis. everything the u. s. claims to be fighting against it's actually promoting overseas, which makes me wonder, are they really that stupid or is this whole thing just a big game, to keep the military industrial complex, churning and churning and those millions of dollars going into the pockets of the well connected inside the beltway, i don't know the answer, peter. i think daniel, they're both true at the same time. ok, given this professional managerial class and international relations are domestic. anything they touch, they destroy. ok. and i think it's, it's greed,
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it's hubris in their ideologically blind. ok, and this is what the result of it. and you know what, daniel, the world can move on. ok if the u. s. you know, once to say it owns all the marbles on the playground, you know, and walks off with them fine, there's a world beyond the united states. okay. and the d dollarization that's going on left and right across the world it's, it's again, self inflicted here. let me, let me go to the glen here, glen, i mean, why should russia care really? i mean, you know, there are alternatives to the swiss system, right now. they have burgeoning relationships in asia. that's where global growth is. 20 percent of the global growth immediately after the, the pandemic is all in asia. i mean, is it really worth it? i mean, to be part of their little clubs where, you know, they discuss critical race theory and woke ism and all of it isn't really worth it . i mean, i don't really understand most of it. i don't even,
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i don't even want to engage in it. i mean, it's their own self demise. okay. that they're tied up in. why should russia care? go ahead? well, it used to care more because again, since at least the garbage on there, russia has been aiming to integrate into what is defined as greater europe. now, the main conflict we had in europe is exactly because we never had any post cold war settlements as all, all by keeping nato inexpensive nato as demand secured the architecture of europe. we maintained several, some structures. now, for a long time, russell, it was all this economy was tied up with the west, and the west could always dangle the ability of better relations with the, with the only change its policy made unilateral concessions. now, this past 7 years was definitely us going to far because now russia has instead begun to embrace the greater duration initiative in which a greater part shipment up to the west. but also and things have changed for once.
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we can't really dangle the greater europe in front of the rush anymore because it's really interested in this and more so let's offer a 2nd. the less way to punish it because or the 70 years has been diversified, has called me very quickly to the mentioned sweets, but in the main technology. strategic industries, transportation cor, north and payment system, currency fuse development bank is across the board. they are typically now diversified away from the united states, and it is the problem part of the problems with sanctions that during, during a long period time, other countries you will learn to live without you and have a great extent what we've seen that happen now. and one final point, cuz i saw room in the article recently by the former us ambassador to nato kirk gulker. you are an article about this. and he argued that success is confrontation and hoping that it would collapse. and the whole thing is anything but continued
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confrontational victory for good is good for russia. that is bad for america. so this is very serious. i'm in policy that you hung be the common security rug with russia has to be beat. it's very much. yeah, i mean, max, i came across a curve ball and i think michael mcfall actually chimed in as well. that works better. that's diploma here. but that does that go with my point. i mean it's just one big headache. ok. you don't want us in your club, your private snooty club, then fine. there are other clubs to go to. i mean, i just, you know, we've heard that you dangle in front of them. you know, that's how treating somebody like a child that's. that's not how international relations should work. ok with great powers, by the way, i mean, this is the problem max is that the world has gone back to way it has been for the entire history of the international assistant system. great power competition. ok.
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we had an end to generations of the, of the cold war, but did not understand that. that's the way the world works now with reverted back to it because there's only one ideological power out there. it's the united states . it's not china, it's not russia. it's not iran. ok, one country is ideological, and that is why it's creating this log jam of the international system. go ahead max. sure. i think that the you, the, the world has come back to this great paula rivalry paradigm is recognized in all the major capital. so the world i think, what is the key variable that is different today is that the power of the west has declined that so that it's a different and it's very important factor. and i think you, glenn, and you get or point out exactly the right track here that russia has been decreasing. it's kind of involvement in the western or attention for the, for the was tried graven attention for, for from western powers. it is still there,
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but still it's less than used to be in $990.00. s and russia has been promoting this greater di westernization or the americanization of the internation or system . i think what is still in the interest of russia again. and we have to bear in mind that the russian leads are also not very monolithic. there are those who argue for absolute stronger stance against the united states. and there are others who are more kind of moderate and the kind of the moderate wing. and i think is interested in the quote unquote economizing of the confrontation. and i'm making this confrontation less expensive for russia because it consumes resources, you know, distracts from other priorities. so in a way, you know this summer is kind of an a way for food and to go and see whether there's still might be quarter board or final chance to you know, safe some resources in certain areas of confrontation. i'm rather pessimistic that that may happen, but maybe that's, that's what they they, they've been looking for. yeah, daniel, i mean, again, you know, this, this, the summit mystifies me here because you tend to think he would meet
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a summit because there's a modicum of trust. ok. because there is, you know, you can sit down and have an interlocutor and have an honest conversation. but i mean, considering all of the shenanigans have been going on, particularly with ukraine. you know, be sanctions again siri and not allowing him to rebuild. we go on and on and on here. i mean, i just, i did anything to the bite and says i wouldn't trust or, or his interlocutor blinking and considering job performance before the summit here . i mean, what is there any trust there at all? because i don't see it, it's a fabricated, it's gone because one side does not want to use that in their negotiations. trust. go ahead. well, you're right, blake, and it's absolutely out of his league. he is an ideologue who has very little real experience. he has a lot of experience for mentoring, who is, he was deeply involved in the coo against the ukrainian government. but i was gonna
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say, before you mentioned that, you know, really the elephant in the room when you discuss having a conversation with biden is biden. and we, we saw the press conferences, we saw him blank out many times several times. and it's, it's kind of funny to laugh at because i think he's a horrible person. maybe single handedly responsible for disaster. it's more on iraq in 2003 when he brought the democrats in the senate in and became pro war. and so there's a lot of blood on his hands. nevertheless, it is a little bit humorous to watch, but also a little bit disconcerting. when you realize the person on top, the person in charge is definitely not in charge. he kept wandering off, and his wife had to go find him and lead him back. there's plenty of very disturbing video of him to sort of wandering around. this is not a good situation because you have when the cat's away, the mice are playing. mice in this case are people like blinking very,
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very dangerous people. products of washington d. c. okay. but when you can say what you hear, daniel, i mean it while that cats away the mice play. i mean it, when you listen to tony blink. and i mean, i mean, he's lecturing the world about critical race theory and woke ism and things like that. i saw it in anchorage, i mean, they were completely mystified is, what is this guy talking about? and i'm fluent in the english language, and i had a hard time following him. okay. i mean, how do you think the rest of the world does that when you have these black lives matter flags when you have the gay pride flags that american embassies, i mean, people must think that, you know, they've gone bonkers. they use a british term. it's completely in your face and i don't know if it's meant to be, but i do see some backlash. and i noticed that hungary recently is looking into adopting some some laws more like russia when it comes to the promotion of homosexuality. and we've run out of time gentlemen, it was a bit long winded there. i want to get my guests in lake jackson offload. and in
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moscow, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. you next time. remember that the the driven by adrenal shaped by those with me in me thing we dare to ask me. ah ah,
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the the headlines and he's not in the page and as cautious optimism, as he wraps up his landmark geneva stomach jag by your billing given there was no hospitality from the country meeting was very constructive. i have no illusions following the meeting, neither old nor new, any illusions at all. however, by the thing rather, less off the summer, even appearing to the confused with trouble. i caught part of prejudice. try to press conference and at the end of his news conference after the summit, joe biden questions and reported.


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