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tv   Cross Talk  RT  August 17, 2021 11:00pm-11:31pm EDT

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skies reported ah, one of the best guns who clung to us military playing, taking off from cobble films, the ordeal and his phone. his fight is unknown, but others went on to plunge to the taliban. meanwhile, briefed immediate threats and power grub, promising and seeks no revenge. and that i worked for foreign armies all forgiven. glasses revealed at about a commodity who gave a victory speech from cobbles, presidential palace spend 2 years at the detainees in guantanamo by about srp on this hour's coverage. all of that revenue consideration and up kind of stuff will keep us updated on all events on the grounds as we get information coming in. we're back in one hour with the latest join us again. he, on our team to national ah, ah
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ah, ah hello and welcome to cross off. we're all things considered. i'm peter lavelle, russia china relations are strong and getting deeper. we are told this is dangerous for the washington lead world. is it? why are moscow in beijing moving closer together? did the miscalculations of the washington consensus? have anything to do with it? is the china russia alliance made in america? ah, the cross talking russia china relations, i'm joined by my guess mention she yang in geneva. he is a professor of international history and politics at the graduate institute of international and development studies engineer. but in israel have john gong. he is
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a professor at the university of international business in economics. and here in moscow were joined by alexander luke, and he is head of the department of international relations at the higher school of economics. or tell me in cross talk roles and effects. that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciated when she and jenny, but let me go to you 1st year. i've been observing it for many, many years, the growing relationship closer, relationship that russia and china had. and it was, you know, a few years ago it was murmurings people met and mentioned in western media. and now all of a sudden they're in panic mode is if this suddenly happened. well, this hasn't suddenly happened. it's been happening for a very long time. and 80 this, russia gave hope that the u. s. has gone through and much of the western world. they have just been oblivious to how the international stage is changing and the rapid miss of that change. and suddenly they wake up and say, oh my goodness, are you surprised by this? go ahead in geneva. oh,
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i'm not surprised at all. god has lot to do with the american mentality towards russia. in particular, since the end of the cold war, basically, united states thought, well, unipolar world is coming there, you know, russia is defeated. also, the unit was defeated during the cold war. so, the united states really did not take russia seriously. and the even belittle russia's contribution to the decisive end of the cold war. so i think this is a mentality american registration. the past, quite many of them attend, including obama himself care. so in that sense, what obama is used to say, this is a 2nd rate country we don't take into seriously. so what's interesting now is that at least i believe biden's administration began to take russia
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more seriously. so in that sense, in terms of psychology, terms of mentality, maybe there is, let me ask it real quickly. are they taking russia more seriously because of the russia china relationship that is growing because i think that's the case. part of it, part of it, part of it. for sure. yes for sure. or let me listen is let me go to john in israel here. i mean, we just heard from luncheon that you know, the, the american, so take russia very seriously, but they don't, they can't seem to stop talking about russia every single day. i mean, you, it's like keystone cops and james bond. you can have them both at the same time. they are obsessed with russia, but they are beginning to really fear china. and because of their, their projection again smote both it's help bring the 2 countries together, which makes perfect logical sense to me, go ahead, john and israel. well,
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in the us, it was a battle most rival standby to some extent. so, you know, this attitude was long time over time to come to realize that somebody cannot be perspective on the national perspective. china is very rapidly in terms of g t. p, for example, trying today is about 70 percent of us. washer is very small and there's a famous saying from the ex, someone who says that, marcia is basically, you guess they say in a masculine, is they should say, right? so, so i think there's increasing concern was that poses a more competition. i will not do at this point,
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but just spark. so how many companies do you think need to china as far as my shift and some of them i want to be my do so says host countries coming on the market. national interest is trying to do i go, which is something to restore to some extent that i'm looking at was using i think it's so much alex center, this wedge issue. this keeps coming up here. i don't see any wedge whatsoever,
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because you have particularly from washington, an enormous amount of antipathy towards russia. we just recently had a summit which was kind of a stalemate in my opinion, over all which sometimes that's not a bad thing here. but, you know, when you, when you see the, the nato, nato meeting recently, the g 7. and it's all really about china, china, china, ok. and the americans are obsessed with russia, but the rest of, with russia and china at the same time, the europeans are a little bit more in between here. i don't see how they can divide russian china when they're both being the target of aggressive rhetoric at the very least from the us. go ahead, alexander well, when americans, i mean american, the leaves are stuck in about russia or china. they actually don't talk above them,
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the real russia, china, there's a like run through symbols in the internal pool. so the main idea was for a long time after then what profess loan said union for period unity pull a moment was this is going to become an age of union or it will be there forever. so as o a d o and just they and the american, the leads i would say and they rejected sex, rejected for a long time. the fact that russia and china was coming together and was forming a kind of defect to ally and senior regime, which wasn't used to be a nightmare to jo jo, political thinkers like june sky or right you soon who, who are not so crow russian. i must say so,
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but after the collapse of the soviet union, this was the idea and the mainstream thinking was that russia and china were like, it does mess and they could not to come too close together because there is differences. because china is a danger for russian. so, but now the mood is changing. there are some people who talk in the united states about parallel identity in the russian, china that like values are coming closer together in the end. and then this is a problem. so this is why, by the way, why, by them chose to meet the russian president because there were several articles including like show journals like for in the, the, which we're saying that now this is a problem, russian chinese refresh money. the problem is in danger for the united states, and we should do something about about to perhaps somehow the way them and
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you know, by, by being but doing something for russia. but, but there's always, americans don't want to give russia anything in return there. they're only talking . yes you're, you're probably know the well yes. center. i think it's more than just talking. san sanctions, sanctions and sanctions. that's not talk. but that telling you it's telling the russians and sending them a signal here. let me go back to geneva here. you know, what they, they talk about, you know, be the problem. how problematic it is for russia and china to be allies. i don't see it at all because russia and china reject this rules based order. nonsense. they look at international law because rules based order. it's all the rules are made in washington and basing, and moscow said that's not true. and we can say no, go ahead in geneva. well, yes,
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i do think that social looking is right on that. they are talking about imaginary china and the russia. so therefore, they imagine the russia and the china still somehow inferior under the 2 to losh, you can see the western values on they call the universal value, which is ironic because the, the, i always is the, i written the books criticising the concept of the universal value, the original meaning of universal value means catholicism in the middle ages. i think even catholicism split into 2 in the end. right. so yes, but americans, in particular the, that, the, the policy towards attitudes was russia and china is driven primarily by a button gallery and thinking, which is so called the decline, the west thinking it's a decline in is that,
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is it driving that kind of hysteria and the fantasy about china, russia now with china, i would add even something more that there was a ratio side of it. that's the yellow peril. so you have spangler yellow peril. yeah. the china become far more dangerous than russia. in that sense, in the mentality, i can also throw, i could throw in orientalism as well as we're going to get academic, you know. yeah, i know, i'm very know, because for the last 500 years the western world is, is big basically determined the terms of engagement around the globe and suddenly that is coming to an end and they are at a complete loss. and what, how could this possibly happen because they, the, their missionary messianic message is for all time, but it's not empire, it's rising fall. that's the the arc of history here are gentlemen, i'm going to, i've been here, we're going to go to
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a short break down to about short break. we'll continue our discussion on russia, china relation, stay with our team. the ah ah ah, i use the financial survival god
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bless, learn about fill out what i'm extra like and your grief i'm grief on face of the fight was 3 prod. thank you for helping me. the joy. 6 that way ah, welcome back across not where all things considered. i'm peter labelle. your mind you were discussing russia, china relations. ah, ah. okay, let's go back to john in israel. john, there's a lot of talk about a strategic alliance of including russia in china here. now it's my understanding here is that neither russia or china, constitutionally legally speaking, domestically, can be in
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a military alliances. but is that something that is turning into reality if it's, if it's not formally announced? because, i mean, it's interesting how nato is targeted. russia is a threat and also there are, quote, unquote, concerned about china, which again is, draws russian chinese together speak to the strategic possibly military relationship is when is that? is it already happening and what would it take for it to happen? go ahead, john to come to age a strategic relationship, a large relationship. i think the official phrase for this comprehensive partnership relationship and charlotte has a couple of countries. so going to have the strong relationship. i think most trying to you know, to see the trade as
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a strategic align suggested. because at the end of the day, i think both countries durations were actually much larger to capital trades. and what i was trying to do business with santa stays, even more recently, you know, you can union. so i think it would be extremely has to be capitalized. yes wes, this is something i'm just trying to avoid. so he is graduating, pushing the countries into this, which doesn't want in the 1st place. so i don't know why it's, it's a metric. no, absolutely not. well, i mean, wait,
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what's interesting here, let me turn to alexander here in moscow is that, you know, be under the bide mean administration. it's the democratic world against the talk receives and tyranny and all about which again, you know, it's focusing on, on china and russia. though i witten use that the cock receive, i think it to actually cartoonish the way it was coming out of a lincoln state department here. but alexander, i want to ask you a question when it comes up all of the time. is that, and any kind of strong relationship, bilateral relationship, the, there is the claim and it's done despairingly obviously, is it, russia will be the junior member of the, of that relationship. how do you address it? i don't think it's not. it means anything. and i think it's actually quite meaning lists, but that is something that it's always thrown out there. russia will be the junior partner, how to react to that. russia?
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well, it depends on what, what's your listen ition of june the apartment and if it's good or bad, for example, in nature or in european union, we have big countries and small countries like, i don't know, france is much larger than belgium, but they are members of the same lines and i don't think they see each other is a threat. so at the moment, i would say there are no any formal or see show these bones do in the russian and chinese interests. for example, sean chi cooperation organization, the russia and china, they contributed to the budget, the same amount of money, while other countries pay less. and it is very strictly observed in any tree committed to russia and china. the equality
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principle. also, if we are talking about the some countries dependent on another, it basically means that the other one makes that country do something that it doesn't like. this does not exist in the russian chinese partnership. but saying this, we can say also that china is a much larger country in terms of population, the economy is about 10 times larger than the russia, and then this tendency continues. well, it wouldn't be necessarily an uncomfortable relationship, but china may well gradually have more influence in the world than russia. and i think that russia should think about this. yeah, let's go back to geneva. but one of the things that i find interesting is lisa, at the moment here, is that neither russia or china have any aspirations to export any kind of economic or political or ideological model. i mean,
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that's another thing that kind of brings them together because the, you know, the, you, what the washington consensus is basically neo nipple, meal, liberal ideology. and if you don't believe in that, i ology are either inferior or you're a threat or you're both. and russia and china have to their advantage of not seeing the world through an ideological once again, i will state this, they mean they may be the most common denominator here rely upon international law, not an ideological prism to decide how the world should be arranged, go ahead in geneva. yes, but the united states in particular and less so in europe today are still see the world in the black and white i call to me, which of course is very much christian view of the world. so it's difficult, you know, to dispel. that's kind of a way of thinking. so it's, i think that russians,
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china emphasize on whatever it applies to your countries on the mobile or whatever regime the system domestic system, it should fit to be in your own culture. and the history russia does not necessarily have the same system and then china, but to china, also has to learn, you know, the, the good part of the, of the other people's system. so this is the, you know, different mentality, united states of courses. in my view is the last defender of the european enlightenment, also doxey. well, i go so. yeah, i, i think i think it can be, it's a bit ironic here because you have your, you have these very bizarre trends coming out of the united states. a called woke ism and postmodernism. i mean, it's right. you're right. i agree with you. i think it's a very good observation,
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but there will be others like myself that would saying is that the united states is leading the destruction of western culture and civilization, which in a very, very competitive international environment probably shouldn't be a good thing to do. what i mean, obviously making a reference to the anchorage some it was a train wreck for the us when they had the, the chinese representative was repeating talking points from the democrats. very clever or very clever gambit. i must say. ok, but it does come home here. john, let me go to you. i mean, where is this relationship going? because one thing again, i want to talk. everyone likes to talk about the differences between russia and china. of course, there are different countries, different cultures, etc. but they have a lot in common, and then what's in common is the lack of trust in the west, particularly the russians don't have much confidence in the west. nato won't expand, we promise you, we don't need to write it all down and then look what happened. ok,
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then forest regime change in ukraine, color revolutions on its borders here. and you and you expect the russian who keep leaving the state department, they don't anymore. and i think china as a keen observer, watching what's happened in the 20th century in the middle east. you know, is this a partner you want to deal with this? going to be honest with you. i don't think so. okay. i mean, just being an observer of international affairs, it's better to trust your neighbor. that doesn't lie to you all the time, then to believe in the energies of capitalists from washington. go ahead, john. i think most countryside relationship very carefully at the same time, not to be sliding into military alliance scenario. but i think this very much depends on washington as well is the direction there were more possible action or you don't think it might not
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be interesting overall, you know, i feel about this database system. i want to make a comment on the someone that's interested in promoting the model. we don't want to messages some b o y suits of our different i think it's what is the problem, why now it says that it's leaving so the just showing the handling of the shines in the background was a total of many aspects and also against the backdrop of washington being preaching
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that it's all liberal gospel, do many developing countries and it fell so i think they're mostly afraid of that. and 2nd, i think what is also going to, you know, just to try this message that we are actually not interested promote models. they just do this as a sort of tool, something that we can use to basically almost always regarding regarding the job everything they want to do, they can come up and say, look, try them mostly tell me that you will continue to emphasize this. let me give alexander the last 30 seconds here. i agree with john. the world isn't just a g 7. the world. this isn't nato, the world just isn't the you. the world is changing, and i think china and russia understand that far better than people in washington
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last 32nd. see you alex, and go ahead. well, it's quite an interesting situation when the united states wants to tear away russia from china. and this was one of the reason that by then decided to talk finally is to russia. i think it's not very possible to do that would be one this especially taking into consideration that they don't give, give russia anything for that, but at least understood that you should speak. i hope both to russia and china, that the world over very read, the co conflict is not in the interest of any but all right, that's fine. i agree, and i think the biden people are a day late in the buck short my want to thank my guest in geneva, israel, and here in moscow. and what i think our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time. and remember, cross talk roles ah
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ah, me the news the ah,
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me now we have read, i just heard that it was a healthy alternative to figure out how do we trust tobacco companies with their message that these new products are actually going to reduce? are these, these are making the tobacco tours? ah, this is boom, but the one business show you can't afford to mit. i'm branch aboard and i'm ready to have lemons in washington coming up china's text track down continue. we'll take a look at how the markets are reacting to the latest regulations charging anti competitive practices. watch, government and data studies falls apart and civilian. why not to withdraw their money. bitcoin supporters said the country news crypto like never before. well, this guy. then we turned back to the cybersecurity sector as hospital continue to fall prey to hackers in the midst of the delta, coven variance search,
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cybersecurity expert shipley is standing by to bring it all down from the fact. so today was that right in the and we leave the program with another step in ms. ambition to regulate the nation's massive tech sector. state administration for market regulation on tuesday published a set of draft rules aimed at taking on unfair competition and the handling of critical data. now, as we have talked about on this show in recent months, china has taken multiple steps to rain in the massive tech company. they are fostered in the last decade and a half. so here are just a few of the proposed rules. tech companies should not provide fault that it including inflating the number of clicks on a piece of content. they should not hide negative reviews and only promote good
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evaluations of a product which is often commonplace on sites like albert, amazon and internet platforms should not make efforts to influence user choice is essentially saying they can't push users to their own content or services. while browsing another and for context, this is something google has been accused up across the globe. the regulator is seeking public opinion on the rules until the 15th of september. and while these proposed rules have not come into effect quite yet, investors are already reacting. so let's bring in michelle snider, she's the partner and director of training research and education at market gauge dot com to discuss this. and what else is moving market on tuesday? michelle. a pleasure to have you back on the show about china's biggest tech companies last around, $50000000000.00 and market value on tuesday after the proposed rules released with 10 cent alibaba. j. d dot com in march 1 all losing between 3 and.


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