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tv   Cross Talk  RT  August 18, 2021 3:30pm-4:01pm EDT

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i commend the president for the action that he took, the, this is what happens when you withdraw you some stuff. some equipment is left their mouth. joe biden says he stands by his decisions regarding afghanistan, that there was no good way to pull out of the country no matter when the decision to pull out took place. there was going to be problems like what we're currently seeing now. but public opinion seems to see it otherwise, it seems like joe biden is being widely castigated. many democrats and republicans just seeing his handling of the situation in cobble and his response to the situation as simply being improper. it's like he didn't know what was going to happen if like he is wishy washy and undependable. this is not a good moment for the new president of united states. joe biden was remark, might not care about the cale. and i've kind of started talking about care about chaos at home. but midterms coming up next year, of course, probably going to going to charm offensive. try went over some days, voters thought was k to open reporting from new york. many banks and not brings and
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added to this our coverage of the situation in afghanistan. we're following it. we will continue to do so. this is our teams national life from of the oh, the financing guy. when customers go buy, you reduce the price. now, well, reduce the lower the best undercutting, but what's good for food market? it's not good for the global economy. ah, i
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hello and welcome to cross time. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, russia china relations are strong and getting deeper. we are told this is dangerous for the washington lead world. is it? why are moscow in beijing moving closer together? did the miscalculations of the washington consensus? have anything to do with it? is the china russia alliance made in america? the cross talking russia, china relations? i'm joined by my guess lynch and she yang in geneva. he is a professor of international history and politics at the graduate institute of international and development studies engineer. but in israel we have john gong. he is a professor at the university of international business and economics. and here in moscow were joined by alexander luke and he is head of the department of
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international relations at the higher school of economics. or tell me in cross talk roles and effects. that means that can jump in anytime you want, and i always appreciated when she is in geneva. let me go to you 1st. here i've been observing for many, many years, the growing relationship closer, relationship that russia and china had. and it was, you know, a few years ago it was my moorings people mitten mentioned in western media. and now all of a sudden they're in panic mode is if this suddenly happened. well, this hasn't suddenly happened. it's been happening for a very long time. and the, this, russia gave the hope that the u. s. has gone through and much of the western world . they have just been oblivious to how the international stage is changing and the rapid ness of that change. and suddenly they wake up and say, oh my goodness, are you surprised by this? go ahead in geneva. oh, i'm not surprised at all. god has lot to do with the american mentality
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towards russia, in particular, since the end of the cold war, basically united states thought, well, unipolar world is coming there. you know, russia is defeated. also the unit was defeated during the cold war. so the united states really did not take russia seriously, and the even, belittle rushes contribution to the decisive end of the cold war. so i think this is a mentality american registration, the past, quite many of them attend, including obama himself. so in that sense, obama is used to say, this is a 2nd rate country, we don't take him to seriously. so what's interesting now is that at least i believe biden's administration began to take russia more seriously. so in that sense, in terms of psychology, terms of mentality, maybe there is midland out,
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let me ask it real quickly. are they taking russia more seriously because of the russia china relationship that is growing? because i think that's the case. part of it, part of it, part of it. for sure. yes for sure. or let me listen is let me go to john in israel here. i mean, we just heard from luncheon that you know, the, the american, so take russia very seriously, but they don't, they can't seem to stop talking about russia every single day. i mean, you, it's like keystone cops and james bond. you can have them both at the same time. they are obsessed with russia, but they are beginning to really fear china. and because of their, their projection again smote both it's help bring the 2 countries together, which makes perfect logical sense to me, go ahead, john and israel. well, in the us there's a lot holding you watch a batter most rival, standby to some extent. so you know,
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this attitude towards the long time, but over time i think come to realize that somebody cannot be perspective from a national perspective. china is rapidly in terms of g. t. p, for example, today is about 70 percent of us. washer is very small and there's a famous saying from the x who says that, marcia is basically, you guess they say in a masculine, is they should say, right? so, so i think this increasing concern was that the trailer poses a more competition not to at this point, but as a kind of just spark. so how many
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companies do this? or if you choose china and some of them are a warranty might do. so says host countries coming on the market, national interest is trying to do i go when you're trying to restore to some extent that i'm looking at was you saying i think it's alex center, this wedge issue. this keeps coming up here. i don't see any wedge whatsoever, because you have particularly from washington, an enormous amount of antipathy towards russia. we just recently had
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a summit which was kind of a stalemate in my opinion, over all which sometimes that's not a bad thing here. but, you know, when you, when you see the, the nato, nato meeting recently, the g 7. and it's all really about china, china, china, ok. and the americans are obsessed with russia, but the rest of, with russia and china at the same time, the europeans are a little bit more in between here. i don't see how they can divide russian china when they're both being the target of aggressive rhetoric at the very least from the us. go ahead, alexander well, when the americans, i mean american lives is talking about russia or china, they actually don't talk above them. the real russia, china, there's like 2 symbols in the internal po. so the main idea was for
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a long time after then what profess loan said union for period unity pull a moment was this is going to become an age of your new priority. it will be there forever. so as o a d o just they and the american elite, i would say they rejected sex, rejected for a long time. the fact that russia and china was coming to the other and was forming a kind of defect to alliance in eurasia, which wasn't used to be a nightmare to such. jo jo, political thinkers like june, sky or right you soon who, who are not. so pro ration i must say. so, but after the collapse of the soviet union, this was the idea and the mainstream thinking was that russia and china were like,
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it does mess and they could not to come too close together because there is differences because china is the danger for russian. so, but now the mood, this changing, there are some people who, who talk in the united states about parallel identity in the russian, china that like values are coming closer together in the end. and then this is a problem. so this is why, by the way, why by them chose to meet the russian president because there were several articles including like show journals like for the fairs, this, which were saying that now this is a problem, russian chinese refresh money. the problem is in danger for the united states, and we should do something about about it, perhaps somehow the way them and you know, by, by being doing something for russia but, but there's always,
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americans don't want to give russia anything in return the only, the only talking yes, you probably know the well yes, wow. like center. i think it's more than just talking. san sanctions, sanctions and sanctions. that's not talk, but that's telling you it's telling the russians and sending them a signal here. let me to go back to geneva here. what, you know, when they, they talk about, you know, be the problem, how problematic it is for russia and china to be allies. i don't see it at all because russia and china rejects this rules based order. nonsense. they look at international law because rules based order. it's all the rules are made in washington and basing. and moscow said that's not true. and we can say no, go ahead in geneva. well, yes, i do think that social looking is right on that. they are talking about imaginary
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china and russia, so therefore they imagine the russia and the china still somehow inferior under the 2 to losh, you see all the way western values on they called universal value, which is ironic because the i always is, i written the books criticizing the concept of universal value, the original meaning of universal value means catholicism in the middle ages. even catholicism split into 2 in the end, right? so yes, but americans, in particular, the, the, the policy towards attitudes was russia and china is driven primarily by a button gallery and thinking, which is so called the decline. the west thinking is a decline in is that it's a driving that kind of hysteria and the fantasy. know about china,
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russia now with china, i would add even something more that there was a racial side of it does the yellow peril. so you have spangler yellow peril. yeah . the china become far more dangerous than russia. in that sense, in the mentality. i could, i could also throw, i could throw in orientalism as well as we're going to get academic. you know, you know, i'm very now because for the last 500 years, the western world is, is big basically determined the term of engagement around the globe. and suddenly that is coming to an end and they read a complete loss. and what, how could this possibly happen because they, their missionary messianic message is for all time, but it's not empire, it's rising fall that's but maybe the arc of history here are gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break and out about your break. we'll continue our discussion on russia, china relation, stay with our team. the the,
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the news the same when i would show the wrong one, i just don't. i mean, you get to see out the thing becomes the after kid and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground in
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the, in the, in the welcome back across stock where all things considered i and peter labelle remind you were discussing russia, china relations. mm. mm. okay, let's go back to john in israel, john, there's a lot of talk about a strategic alliance of including russia in china here. now it's my understanding here is that neither russia or china, constitutionally legally speaking, domestically, can be in a military alliances. but is that something that is turning into reality if it's, if it's not formally announced? because i mean, it's interesting how nato is targeted. russia is
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a threat and also their quote unquote concerned about china, which again is, draws russian chinese together speak to the strategic possibly military relationship is when is that? is it already happening and what would it take for it to happen? go ahead, john to come to a strategic relationship. why should i think the official phrase for comprehensive partnership relationship and charlotte has a couple countries that have strong relationship. i think most china course, you know, you see the trade as a strategic align suggested because at the end of the day in both countries, durations were actually much larger than with the,
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with 2 countries that were capital trades almost. and what i was trying to do business with stays even more recently, you know, you can union. so i think it would be extremely has to be capitalized. yes wes, this is something i'm just trying to avoid. so i'll talk about graduating the country, which doesn't want in the 1st place. so i don't know why it's, it's a metric. no, absolutely not. well, i mean, wait, what's interesting here, let me turn to alexander here in moscow is that, you know, be under the bide mean administration. it's the democratic world against the talk
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receives in tyranny and all about which again, you know, it's focusing on on, on china and russia, though i wouldn't use that to the cock receive. i think it's actually cartoonish, the way it was coming out of a lincoln state department here. but alexander, i want to ask you a question when it comes up all of the time. is that, and any kind of strong relationship, bilateral relationship the, there's the claim and it's done despairingly obviously, is it, russia will be the junior member of the, of that relationship. how do you address it? i don't think it's not. it means anything. and i think it's actually quite meaning lists, but that is something that it's always thrown out there. russia will be the junior partner. how do you react to that? russia? well, it depends on what, what's your initial of june the apartment and if it's good or bad, for example, in nature or in european union, we have big countries and small countries like,
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i don't know, france is much larger than belgium, but the members of the same my legs and i don't think they see each other's a threat. so at the moment, i would say live there, i know any formal or official these bones between the russian and chinese interests. for example, sean chi corporation organization, the russia and china, they contributed to the budget, the same amount of money, while other countries pay less. and it is very strictly observed in any tree committed to russia and china. the equality principle. also, if we're talking about the some countries dependent on another, it basically means that the other one makes the country do something that doesn't
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like this does not exist in the russian chinese partnership. but saying this, we can say also this chinese a much larger country in terms of population. the economy is about 10 times larger than the russia, and then the sentence continues. well, it wouldn't be necessarily uncomfortable relationship, but china may well gradually have more influence in the world than russian. i think that russia should think about. yeah, let's go back to geneva. but one of the things that i find interesting, at least at the moment, tears, but neither russia or china have any aspirations to export any kind of economic or political or ideological model. i mean, that's another thing that kind of brings them together because the, you know, the, you, the washington consensus is basically neo nipple, a meal liberal ideology. and if you don't believe in that id,
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ology are either inferior or you're a threat, or you're both in russia and china, have to their advantage of not seeing the world through an ideological let. and again, i will state this, they mean they may be the most common denominator here rely upon international law, not an idea, logical prism to decide how the world should be arranged. go ahead in geneva. yes. but the united states in particular, and less so in europe today, still see the world in the black and white i call to me, which of course is very much christian view of the world. so it's difficult, you know, to dispel that kind of way of thinking. so it's, i think it, russians, china emphasize on whatever it applies to your countries on the model,
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whatever regime the system domestic system, it should fit to be your own culture and the history russia, this not necessarily have the same system and then china, but to china also has to learn, you know, the, the good part of the, of the other people's system. so this is the, you know, different mentality. united states of course is, in my view is the last defender of the european enlightenment, also doxey. well, i think, oh so yeah, i, i think i think it can be, it's a bit ironic here because you have your, you have this very bizarre trends coming out of the united states. a called woke ism and postmodernism. i mean, it's right. you're right. i agree with you, i think it's a very good observation, but there will be others like myself that would saying is that the united states is leading the destruction of western culture and civilization, which in a very,
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very competitive international environment probably shouldn't be a good thing to do what i mean, obviously making a reference to the anchorage summit that was a train wreck for the us when they had the the chinese representative was repeating talking points from the democrats. very clever or very clever gambit. i must say. ok, but it does come home here. john, let me go to you. i mean, where is this relationship going? because one thing again, i want to talk. everyone likes to talk about the differences between russia and china. of course, there are different countries, different cultures, etc. but they have a lot in common, and then what's going common is the lack of trust in the west, particularly the russians don't have much confidence in the west. nato won't expand, we promise you, we don't need to write it all down and then look what happened. ok, then forest regime change in ukraine, color revolutions on its borders here. and you and you expect the russian who keep
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leaving the state department, they don't anymore. and i think china as a keen observer, watching what's happened in the 20th century in the middle east. you know, is this a partner you want to deal with this? going to be honest with you. i don't think so. okay. i mean, just being an observer of international affairs, it's better to trust your neighbor. that doesn't lie to you all the time, then to believe in the energies of capitalists from washington. go ahead, john. i think most countries are going to or issue very carefully at the same time, not to be sliding to ministry, a line scenario. but i think this movement very much depends on washington as well . if they're wanting to push this direction, they will move their actions or think it might not be interesting. overall, you know your question about
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this database system. i want to make a comment on someone that's interested in promoting hope that we don't want to messages and b o y suits of our different people to be just what is the present said that it's believing. so just showing that shines in the background was a total failure, many aspects and also against the backdrop of washington being preaching that is all liberal gospel do. many times it fell. so i think they're mostly afraid of that . and 2nd, i think watson is also going to, you know,
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need to try this message that we are actually not interested promoting model. they just do this as a sort of tool, something that you can use to basically almost always regarding the g 7 regarding everything you want to do, they can come up and say give it a try. so i think mostly tell me that you will continue to emphasize this. let me give alexander the last 30 seconds here. it's. i agree with john. the world isn't just a g 7. the world. this isn't nato, the world just isn't the you. the world is changing, and i think china and russia understand that far better than people in washington last 32nd. see you alex, and go ahead. well,
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it's quite an interesting situation when the united states who wants to tear away russia from china. and this was one of the reason that by then decided to talk finally to russia. i think it's not very possible to do that would be one this especially taking into consideration that they don't give, give russia anything for that, but at least understood that you should speak. i hope both to russia and china, that the world over very read, the co conflict is not in the interest of any but all right, that's fine. i agree, and i think the buying people are a day late in the buck short my want to thank my guests in geneva, israel, and here in moscow, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our to see you next time. and remember, cross talk roles the ah
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