tv Cross Talk RT August 19, 2021 12:00am-12:31am EDT
but i know we come with me just a few questions, go and i will order with the telephone, alicia's, a hail of bullets on a crowd after people raise the afghan national flag. a symbol. the militants have replaced across the country with their own banner. it's not only the show of resistance as it $10000.00 afghan soldiers reportedly rally and that the country under the leadership of the vice president who instead is now i've got to stand legitimate liter claimed that they have rested back areas near couple taliban take over, rips, open old words in europe where there are mounting fears of a possible repeat of the 2015 migrant crimes. those are your headlines this hour that does it for me, but don't worry in just under an hour's time. my colleague worries you,
she will be here to take you through a refreshing look at today's news. this is our international. what have you with us? the ah ah, ah. hello and welcome to cross off. we're all things considered. i'm peter lavelle, russia china relations are strong and getting deeper. we are told this is dangerous for the washington lead world. is it? why are moscow in beijing moving closer together? did the miscalculations of the washington consensus? have anything to do with it? is the china russia alliance made it america? ah, ah,
cross talking russia china relations. i'm joined by my guess mansion, she yang in geneva. he is a professor of international history and politics at the graduate institute of international and development studies engineer. but in israel we have john gong, he is a professor at the university of international business in economics. and here in moscow were joined by alexander luke, and he is head of the department of international relations at the higher school of economics or gentlemen cross talk roles. and in fact, that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciated when she and jenny, but let me go to you 1st here. i've been observing it for many, many years, the growing relationship closer, relationship that russia and china had. and it was, you know, a few years ago it was murmurings people met and mentioned in western media. and now all of a sudden they're in panic mode. is it best suddenly happened? well, this hasn't suddenly happened. it's been happening for a very long time. and 80 this, russia gave hope that the u. s. has gone through and much of the western world.
they have just been oblivious to how the international stage is changing and the rapid miss of that change. and suddenly they wake up and say, oh my goodness, are you surprised by this? go ahead in geneva. oh, i'm not surprised at all. god has lot to do with the american mentality towards russia. in particular, since the end of the cold war, basically, united states thought, well, unipolar world is coming there, you know, russia is defeated. also, the unit was defeated during the cold war. so, the united states really did not take russia seriously. and the even belittle russia's contribution to the decisive end of the cold war. so i think this is a mentality american registration. the past, quite many of them attend, including obama himself. so in that sense, what obama is used to say, this is
a 2nd rate country we don't take into seriously. so what's interesting now is that at least i believe biden administration began to take russia more seriously. so in that sense, in terms of psychology, terms of mentality, maybe there is midland, she may african, real quickly. are they taking russia more seriously because of the russia china relationship? it is growing because i think that's the case. part of it, part of it, part of it. for sure. yes for sure. or let me listen is let me go to john in israel here. i mean, we just heard from luncheon that you know, the, the american, so take russia very seriously, but they don't, they can't seem to stop talking about russia every single day. i mean, it's like keystone cops and james bond. you can have them both at the same time.
they are obsessed with russia, but they are beginning to really fear china. and because of their, their projection again smote both it's help bring the 2 countries together, which makes perfect logical sense to me, go ahead, john and israel. well, in the us, it was a battle most rival standby to some extent. so, you know, this attitude was long time over time to come to realize that the cannot be perspective from a national perspective. china is very rapidly in terms of g. t. p for trying today is about 70 percent of us. washer is, is very small. and there's a famous saying from the ex, someone who says that, marcia is basically, you guess they say in a masculine,
is they should say. so i think there's increasing concern was that the trailer poses a more competition not to at this point, but it's kind of just spark. so how many companies do you think need to shift? and some of them are a warranty? my view so says host countries coming marcos, national interest is trying to do i go, which is something to restore to some extent that i'm looking at using
which i think it's alex center, this wedge issue. this keeps coming up here. i don't see any wedge whatsoever. because you have particularly from washington, an enormous amount of antipathy towards russia. we just recently had a summit, which was kind of a stalemate, in my opinion, over all which sometimes that's not a bad thing here. but, you know, when you, when you see the, the nato, nato meeting recently, the g 7. and it's all really about china, china, china, ok. and the americans are obsessed with russia, but the rest of, with russia and china at the same time, the europeans are a little bit more in between here. i don't see how they can divide russian china when they're both being the target of aggressive rhetoric at the very least from the us. go ahead, alexander well,
when americans, i mean the american, the leaves are stuck about russia or china. they actually don't talk above them, the real russia, china, there's a like run through symbols in the internal pool. so the main idea was for a long time after then what profess loan said union for period unity pull a moment was this is going to become an age of union or it will be there forever. so as o a d o, and just they in the american leads, i would say, and they rejected sex, rejected for a long time. the fact that russia and china was coming together and was forming a kind of defect to alliance in eurasia, which wasn't used to be
a nightmare to such jo jo, political thinkers like june, sky or right you soon who, who are not so crow russian. i must say so, but after the collapse of the soviet union, this was the idea and the mainstream thinking was that russia and china were like, it does mess and they could not to come too close together because there is differences because china is a danger for russian, so, but now the mood is changing. there are some people who talk in the united states about parallel identity in the russian, china that like values are coming closer together in the end. and then this is a problem. so this is why, by the way, why by them chose to meet the russian president because there were several articles including like show journals like for the fairs, this,
which were saying that now this is a problem, russian chinese refresh money. the problem is in danger for the united states, and we should do something about about it, perhaps some how do i and them and you know, by, by being but doing something for russia but, but there's always, americans don't want to give russia anything in return there they're only talking. yes, you probably know the 12 center i think it's more than just talking. san sanctions, sanctions and sanctions. that's not talk that. but telling you that it's telling the russians and sending them a signal here. let me to go back to geneva. here, you know, when they, they talk about, you know, be the problem, how problematic it is for russia and china to be allies. i don't see it at all because russia and china reject this rules based order. nonsense. they look at
international law because rules based order. it's all the rules are made in washington and basing and moscow say that's not true. and we can say no, go ahead in geneva. well, yes, i do think that social looking is right on that. they are talking about imaginary china and the russia, so therefore they imagine the russia and the china still somehow inferior under the 2 to losh, you see the western values on they called universal value, which is ironic because the i always is the, i written the books criticising the concept of universal value. the original meaning of universal value means catholicism in the middle ages. i think even catholicism split into 2 in the end, right? so yes, but americans, in particular, the, the,
the policy towards attitudes was russia and china is driven primarily by a button gallery and thinking, which is so called the decline, the west thinking it's a decline in is that it's a driving that kind of hysteria and the fantasy, know about china, russia now, with china, i will add even something more. that there was a ratio side of it. that's the yellow peril. so you have spangler yellow peril. yeah. the china become far more dangerous than russia. in that sense, in the mentality. i could, i could also throw, i could throw in orientalism as well as we're going to get academic, you know. yeah, i know, i'm very know, because for the last 500 years the western world is, is big basically determined the term of engagement around the globe. and suddenly that is coming to an end and they read a complete loss. and what,
how could this possibly happen because they, the, their missionary messianic message is for all time, but it's not empire, it's rise and fall. that's but the, the arc of history here are gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break down to about short break. we'll continue our discussion on russia, china relation. stay with our team. the ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, use
driven by shaped by the in the me dares thing. we dare to ask me now we had read, i just heard that it was a healthy alternative to figure out how do we trust tobacco companies with their message that these new products are actually going to reduce? are these, these are making the tobacco open doors?
ah, welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing china relations the me okay, let's go back to john in israel. john, there's a lot of talk about a strategic alliance including russia in china here. now it's my understanding here is that neither russia or china, constitutionally legally speaking, domestically, can be in a military alliances. but is that something that is turning into reality? if it's, if it's not formally announced, because i mean, it's interesting how nato is targeted. russia is a threat. and also there are, quote, unquote, concerned about china, which again is, draws russian chinese together speak to the strategic possibly military
relationship is when is that? is it already happening, and what would it take for it to happen? go ahead john. to come to a strategic relationship. why should should i think the official phrase, for sure relationship and china has a couple things that have the strong relationship. i think both china you know, to see the trade as a strategic align suggested. because the other day, i think both countries relations with the rest and so actually much larger to purchase each other for capital trade in dollars. and what i was trying to do business with stays even more recently you can union. so i think at the end
of the day would be extremely has to be capitalized. yes wes, this is something boy. so when he graduated in the country club which doesn't why the 1st place. so why do. busy you think it's a metric? no, absolutely not. well, i mean, wait, what's interesting here, let me turn to alexander here in moscow is that, you know, be under the bible administration. it's the democratic world against the top cruces, and tyranny and all about which again, you know, it's focusing on on, on china and russia, though i wouldn't use that the cock receive. i think it to actually cartoonish the
witt. what's coming out of a lincoln state department here, but alexander went, ask you a question, a comes up all of the time. is that and any kind of strong relationship, bilateral relationship? the, there's the claim and it's done a despairingly, obviously, is it? russia will be the junior member of the, of that relationship. how do you address it? i don't think it's ma, it means anything. and i think it's actually quite meaning lists. but that is something that is always thrown out there. russia will be the junior partner. how do you react to that? russia? well, it depends on what, what's your initial of june the apartment and if it's good or bad, for example, in nature or in european union, we have big countries and small countries like, i don't know, france is much larger than belgium, but they are members of the same alliance, and i don't think they see each other's
a threat. so at the moment, i would say there are no any formal or official dis bones between the russian and chinese interests. for example, sean chi corporation organization, the russia and china, they contributed to the budget, the same amount of money, while other countries pay less. and it is very strictly observed in any tree committed to russia and china. the equality principle. also, if we're talking about the some countries dependent on another, it basically means that the other one makes that country do something that doesn't like this does not exist in the russian chinese partnership. but saying this, we can say also that china is a much larger country in terms of population,
the economy is about 10 times larger than the russia, and then this tendency continues. well, it wouldn't be necessarily come for the military relationship, but china may well gradually have more influence in the world in russia. and i think that russia should think about yeah, let's go back to geneva. but one of the things that i find interesting, at least at the moment here, is that neither russia or china have any aspirations to export any kind of economic or political or ideological model. i mean, that's another thing that kind of brings them together because the, you know, the, you, the washington consensus is basically neo nipple, meal, liberal ideology. and if you don't believe in that id, ology are either inferior or you're a threat, or you're both in russia and china, have to their advantage of not seeing the world through an ideological once again,
i will state this, they mean they may be the most common denominator here, rely upon international law, not an idea, logical prism to decide how the world should be arranged. go ahead in geneva. yes, but the united states in particular, and less so in europe today. still see the world in the black and white. i call to me, which of course is very much christian view of the world. so it's difficult, you know, to dispel that kind of way of thinking. so it's, i think that russians, china emphasize on whatever it applies to your countries on the model or whatever regime the system domestic system, it should fit to be your own culture and the history. ok. russia,
that's not necessarily the same system. and then china, want to china also has to learn, you know, the, the good part of the, of the other people system. so this is the, you know, different mentality. united states, of course and spoke in my view is the last defender of the european enlightenment. also doxey. well, i go so badly. oh, yeah, i quit the i think i think it can be, it's a bit ironic here because you have your, you have this very bizarre trends coming out of the united states. a called woke ism, in post modernism. i mean, it's right now you're right. i agree with you. i think it's a very good observation, but there will be others like myself that would saying is that the united states is leading the destruction of western culture and civilization, which in a very, very competitive international environment probably shouldn't be a good thing to do. i'm what i'm making a reference to the anchorage summit that was
a trade rec for the us. when they had the, the chinese representative was repeating talking points from the democrats. very clever or very clever gambit. i must say. ok, but does come home here. john, let me go to you. i mean, where is this relationship going? because one thing again, i want to talk. everyone likes to talk about the differences between russia and china. of course, there are different countries, different cultures, etc. but they have a lot in common. and then what's in common is the lack of trust in the west, particularly the russians don't have much confidence in the west. nato won't expand, we promise you, we don't need to write it all down and then look what happened. ok then for 3 gene change in ukraine, color revolutions on its borders here. and you and the, the expect, the russian who keep leaving the state department, they don't anymore. and i think china as a keen observer, watching what's happened in the 20th century in the middle east. you know, is this a partner you want to deal with this?
going to be honest with you. i don't think so. ok. i mean, just being an observer of international affairs, it's better to trust your neighbor. that doesn't lie. do you all of the time, then to believe in the in treaties of capitalists from washington. go ahead, john. i think most countries are re, she's, she's very catholic at the same time, not to be sliding to military alliance scenario. but i think this very much depends on washington as well is the direction there were more possible direction or you think it might not be interesting overall, you know, i feel about this database system. i want to make a comment on someone that's interested
in promoting hope. the rest the world, we don't want to messages some b o y suits of our different i think to be just what is the problem. i have said that it's believing. so just showing the handling the shines in the background was a total failure. many aspects and also against the backdrop of washington being preaching that it's all liberal gospel, do many developing countries and it fell. so i think they're mostly afraid of that . and 2nd, i think one is also going to, you know, need to try this message that we are actually not interested promote models. they just do this as
a sort of tool. something that we can use to basically almost always regarding the g 7 regarding everything you want to do, they can come up and say, look, try them mostly. tell me that you will continue to emphasize this. let me give alexander the last 30 seconds here. i agree with john, the world isn't just a g 7. the world. this isn't nato, the world just isn't the you. the world is changing, and i think china and russia understand that far better than people in washington last 32nd. see you alex and or go ahead well, is quite an interesting situation when the united states wants to tear away russia from china. and this was one of the reason that by them decided to talk
finally is to russia. i think it's not very possible to do that. what they want this especially taking into consideration that they don't give russia anything for that, but at least understood that you should speak. i hope both to russia and china, that the world over very read, the co conflict is not in the interest of any but all right. on that point, i agree, and i think the buying people are a day late in the buck short my want to thank my guest in geneva, israel, and here in moscow. and want to take our viewers for watching us here at our to see you next time. and remember cross talk roles the ah ah
one i would show the wrong one. i'll just don't the road. yes. to see out the same because the after an engagement equals the trail went to many find themselves worlds apart. and we choose to look for common ground. you mark me as pretty cause there was someone was going to watch your course the 991. the situation of spirals completely out of control got about, you know, the referendum for the spring of that year off, sylvia who's to vote on whether the state should be preserved on changed recently. and the one that goes well in
the trends nice. there is a narrow strip of land along the bank of the nice river in soviet times it was part of the mold davian, soviet socialist republic. in the late 19 eighties, the winds of change began to blow and just now and local nationalists demanded that they switched to the left in alphabet and speak romanian trans nice. this predominantly, russian population resisted the changes to rascal the capital declared its refusal to secede from the u. s. s. can you let me just go over that? as soon as she moved me to the law who yesterday she mcdonald.