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tv   Going Underground  RT  December 4, 2021 11:00pm-11:30pm EST

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ah ah, twitter faces a barrage of accusations that it's doing the u. s. government bidding and after the social media giant worked with a washington think tank into spending more than 3000 accounts from 6 countries for alleged fate. back to propaganda these days loyal college of midwives apologizes for new supposedly inclusive guidelines describing mothers as postnatal people performer. and a just nurse believes an influential lobbying group is steering the conversation is has yet to now the example of stem old going in with diversity offices and telling people how to reset the thinking of that man based. and in a landmark ruling, a woman's born with a spinal defect wins her case against the doctor who 20 years ago is said to have failed to advise her mother properly about having children. here's
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a taste of our guests debating of the verdict for the full discussion. watch it on r t dot com. because what i do now with medicine now in 20 years time, we may judge my actions and the doctor has completely wrong. but there is something rather bizarre about somebody saying, i mean this is a sensitive like, i wish it wouldn't ever been born. because you're headlines this our, my colleague niel harvey will be here in just under an hour's time with a full and fresh look. you know, stay with us though. this is our international with
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nation resent said he wasn't going underground amid global fears over a new cove at variance on the current coming up in the show. an advisor to the 1st government that reported all mach onto the world health organization, and whether the next variant will not be reported for fear of nato nation sanction . and the end of day's coming, we investigated why today. 35000 people on average will have converted to a form of christianity that has turned the globe into a spiritual battle field and empowered the rise of world leaders from trump to both scenarios. all of them all coming up in today's going underground with 1st is the u . k. government introduces a fresh wave of covert measures. just had a christmas after a new, very into concern on the chrome detective in south africa. let's go straight to jana's, work to speak to professor berry shoot the chair of south africa's ministerial advisory committee on cobra, 1900 vaccines. thank you so much. a professor issue for coming on. we're hearing here. if scottish cases that preceded the announcement from south africa let alone cases without any known travel in london,
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we don't want to be speculating on where the code is going to follow the usual virus. part of that more transmission less less illness. but what is the situation there is that basically it high transmission less more mild disease, yardly, i have to push it everything reorganised. it's early days. you know, you're busy studying this. first of all, this is a brand new bars. and i said, brand new, it's unrelated to any of the previous variances are completely different evolutionary tree. it's not a, an offshoot to one of the previous periods. that's a one thing. the other thing has got a large number of mutants regions active and something that we've never seen before . so even in the critical spike protein, that's a protein that the bar's needs to establish and fiction over 30 mutations and some brand new. we never, never seen before. some of these mutations do govern things like choice visibility or was infectiousness, as well as vaccine a scope. in other words,
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that the individuals who are vaccinated based get the infection that's at the molecular level in terms of the clinical level in terms observational level, the store is early dimes. we're getting some kind of in clean, but i must stress this an inkling rather than data driven, that it is more transmissible because it's displayed very rapidly. 3 high reproductive number about 2.32.5. and also reaching a large number of cases can't give you a quantitative thing because it is developing the old time of individuals that are the 40, the action items that are picked up in fiction. but fortune. these have been mild cases in terms of our house is a mile mile case, and i want to get the vaccination in a 2nd. why we were we heard from catan province from the national institute of communicable diseases. the hospitalisation has gone up hundreds of percent, 330 percent in the in days after i don't sure, you know, that's changing all the time. but we say mild and yet hospitalisation as increase
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and of course w h o is warned against the use of the word mild. yeah, now i'm living qualify model, does it have had a breakthrough that have been vaccinated and it has been about a year at about a doubling of hospital admissions in the counting province. not nationally been there will be all in janet and accounting problems, but still pretty kind of low year, i think with a demand about 700 admissions as a guys, well, when we in there weighs about 7000 or more. so it's really light and the great majority of those having unvaccinated or any partially vaccinated. so our relation, we do know that correlation of our yeah, iraq to vaccine predicts against severe disease more than, than fiction. but how the army crowns go new express itself? i think that we still need to wait to store too early. you know, you only had this of ours. what about a week or 10 days? so we only accumulating data. now let's just talk about incentives. since we can't
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really took it is a just, isn't we going to wait another week? maybe for the lab results? can all developing nations do you think now expect to be hit by defacto travel? boycott economic warfare. if they identify a variant, if they're in the global south, i mean, no human incentives here as regards. this is a problem. you know, we, we'd like to think that science is transparent, that tries to things and everybody's interest science to be immediately transparent . but it now seems to carry with that a bit of baggage, you know if one immediately and makes an announcement lock so that we could do them as just to be a scientifically pure. if you get pin lots and there might be, will a distance into to announce earlier that very, very unfortunate because the earlier one gets a handle when understands what's going on, the better one can respond and science needs to be transparent. so this is very
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counterproductive. shouldn't have been done, there was no need for their travel bed. that's not scientific, not fashion evidence. it's actually punitive. and as i said, it's a distance into what can be a distance to come forward with scientific data, but you would still advise your counterparts across the global south hit hugely economically by the pandemic with excess. it's not only due to cohort, but due to the economic consequences of it. you'd still say to them, please do publish data. please do tell the w h o things very and even though it may risk the health of your populations because of the economic damage. thank goodness, i'm not a politician. you know, i'm a scientist and a scientist, a medical scientist. it's an everybody global interest in our tried to kind of encourage, even as a government immediate publication, but they might be a bit more reluctance. now, i don't know. well, it's clear that the vaccination so far on the data seems to be better. the no,
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no vaccination you have. you have the vaccination? is 129 percent one dose. was it 25 percent? it's like in the around 30 percent vaccination. we have 69 percent here in britain, keep it a show that kovak says failed. if you're so low and as regards hesitancy, what is, what is it about the white community? since it's white that particularly disproportionately hesitant, they don't want to take the vaccine. 75 percent of black. only 52 percent of white . one is about white people in south africa. the don't want to take the vaccine. let me correct 2 things. visual, i've actually courage. you live in 25 percent. it's about 4445 percent. having a single dose, maybe a complete, complete vaccination, maybe in the late 30 percent. but i agree with you certainly is low in terms of the racial breakdown of his and c. o 2 query those figures. i'm not sure i haven't
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heard those figures. the ones you quoted now, i queried, i think vaccine here and see is a universal problem in south africa as is world wide. but certainly we are, we do have a lot of it because we got ample vaccine stores at the moment. but unfortunately not being taken up in the story. this is the university of johanna's work figures. yeah, yeah. i wonder where they do. okay. well as to got as we got supply, i mean you must have heard about that. there was a, in nature, they cited new york times piece about our vaccines that were supposed to be partnered with durban company, johnson and john to who ended up per cent to europe. and joe biden is talking about our vaccines are being sent away from south africa. what? because you don't have refrigerators? no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's not true. no, no. these alters all cher temperature storage. this ordinary temperature stores there's adequate desire. there's adequate temperature there with storage for city.
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that's not the problem. it was a contractual problem. by the way to it was, it's actually called her back and now it used to be cool for those of a not durban. there's a factory which is doing the film finish, not the production, just a foot and finish of the ambulance, and they were under contractual obligation to supply the parent company. i think that was the problem. and i agree with you certainly was a certain he was a what's the word for ish, unusual to start to make it move it milder for to be full. didn't finish inserting and then be shipped out. and we were in order to just made about that contractual obligation. but why, why? and that was a german case. i think the case your when you're referring to is different. i know these companies are saying, no, this is, this is a, you know, we're going to try not to do that kind of thing. the w h o chief scientists to me, i saw me. nathan obviously says that innovating pharma companies should put their intellectual property rights in the medicine paper, pulled back by the united nations. is there just too much money to be made by big
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pharma, from these vaccines and the center from ox firm biotech. modernity is a $1000.00. a profit made every 2nd from coven vaccine? yeah. well, that's the problem. you know, i rewriting article earlier with i said, now the vaccine should not be treated as a commercial commodity because you get, we get into these kind of difficulties. i know there's a problem cuz you do need your funds to do the research to produce the vaccines. and that usually does come from pharma where i think that needs to be some kind of like university funding as well. i should just said the other public well maybe to some extent, but i think for man, okay. all right, mr. organizations as well, which was due for booking the bottom line. i think the important thing is that i think vaccine should not really be a commercial commodity. i know it might be idealistic, it might be dreams. but i think there must be some mechanism by which one can regulate vaccine supplier search equitably. because at the moment the problem is the universe, it's not just, it's not actually sick, it's not too many tyria. it's
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a real problem because if africa is very much and of x and i, which is at the moment, that's where you're going to get your variance variance you're going to come from. there's really important bars going to come from variance mean more profits by the way, obviously because you can then manufacture a new one. but anyway, these missio pfizer album boiler, who manufacture the one i've got, maybe the one inside you said this intellectual property debate. the problem is scarcity of highly specialized materials needed to produce the vaccine, which is why i p waivers cannot be granted to see. poor countries may disrupt the flow of raw materials, 280 ingredients from 1000 countries in each phase, the vaccine. now the problem is, you, people in south africa, you disrupt the supply chain if, if you could manufacture willy nilly in south africa. and by that now, unfortunately look, i'm not in that facility. i'm not, i'm not
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a commercial freezer, not a production person. i but you know, there are it, i'm in the, all these at the moment, developing local manufacturing capability, a caller joint ventures certainly can be done and should be done. it will be done. and i think, but i think the actual distribution, i think that needs to be nice to be controlled because it's important for everybody . so coming quite apart from that controversy over, i'm f loan repayment, i know 4300000000 has been given. i don't know whether that's contingent on privatization of your health care industry. what did you make of the fact that g 7, the richest countries in the world? they said they gave strong support to set up an international pathogen surveillance system within a w h o framework support for it. what do you think about the urgency being given to these systems now that we've had covered for some years now?
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and as i said, the incentives seem to be, don't report to the w h o l because you're going to suffer economically. and the more variance, the more money for the big pharma companies. i think we want to reverse those 2 things. what you just did now, i think we do need good surveillance, but i think there must be punitive consequences. primarily notification. i think the needs to be manufacturing and distribution and full and finish facilities in the developing world. i think that's really that, that that's, that's not just a dream. this, that's a practicality. i think when i think covered is going to teach us admission that we need to be more critical and stop hoarding vaccine to which the developing world draft will, sorry, the developed world is 3 and just very, very quickly. why is it in the countries with highest vaccination rates, they seem to have the highest number of cases and that's for capital. is that just surveillance? no, i got a district computer, certainly cases per capita. because i think that the point is that the developed
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relative to countries, i think, lifted their restriction to soon i think there was too much economic pressure to lift those restrictions. and you look the restrictions. vaccines can do a lot, but they can't do everything. we still need to the way we understand as far as the transmission of this was, we do need to supplement what vaccines are doing with those public health measures . there's infection prevention mission. we can't, can't get away with it at the moment. maybe in a year's time, maybe in tears down we can serve, you know, at the moment of as a voucher. thank you. thanks. after the break heaven on earth or spiritual battlefield, we examined the political impact of speaking in tongues from bolton, our brazilian, to trump in washington, dc. all the small coming up about 2 of going undergrad. the postal service delivers a $155000000000.00 pieces of mail every year. approximately 40 percent of the world's mail right now. the us postal service is in the flight of its life,
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essays. it is really bad financial shape. now facing default. the postal service is a cash cow, and there was a way to pull money out of the postal service to put into a federal budget. there was a mandate that you bring a $100000.00, new revenue every month. the nature of privatization in the us postal service is very much hidden from public view. it's privatization from the inside out, a big business in money. it's not about the public giving them a service that they deserve. it's not about quality train workers. it's about with welcome back 52 years ago to day civil rights activists. fred hampton was worded by
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the f. b. i under its co until pro program. as a marxist lennon, his hampton was surely aware mugs calling religion the opium of the people. but marks also called religion the side of the oppressed. that couldn't be true than in a new book beyond belief. how pentecostal christianity is taking over the world? it's all the l hot, he joins me now. l thank so much for coming on and what, what a book, i mean, obviously by sunset today, what on average 35000 people will have converted do it. so they'll think it's a stupid question, but what is pentecostalism? so say it's, it's a branch of evangelical christianity. i call it like born again plus. so 1st you, you accept jesus as your lord and savior. and then you feel with the holy spirit say so that gives you it. it brings you things like healing miracles and most notably, speaking in tongues. originally that was the ability to go to foreign lands and convert people. now it seen as much more of a as spiritual language, a unique thing that you can have with god or a unique expression of your faith. and i'll get his defer good political oh,
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repercussions of all of our. but she just quickly said, since everyone as the pandemic on their mind, because of all mc groan, you do say in the book, and i know you research it during the been debbie that the pandemic is aided her, the conversion of more and more people to pentecostalism yeah, but we're certainly saying it happening in, in a few different ways. so it's a, 1st of all people who, particularly in the global south have a very spiritual conception of the wealth. this wasn't a disease, it is dark forces. and you need to double down your faith to, to get rid of them. so we've seen the tanza named president. i'm very influenced by pentecostalism die from this. he denied that it was happening, that it was just spiritual things going on in the world. and he eventually succumb to it. we've also seen them some more interesting things happening that within us or in the pandemic, that it sort of accelerated certain trends that were going on. so just like a lot of mom and pop stores have shots in all parts of the world,
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because the only thing that could really say open and compete in during the pandemic web, you know, your big box if markets and things like that. we're seeing that with, with a lot of churches as well. so a lot of small churches were before the close in the world and they just didn't have the infrastructure. they're like a hill song on and like a lot of the other big churches who could already broadcast on line so. so they're getting huge amounts of new followers who still wanted that sunday morning experience, but weren't able to get it from the local church. but why does it include so increasing? now you say in the book with where it's always been able to sell itself. i mean, the, the, the line appeal was presley johnny go, will be king. little richard says to rosetta thorpe, who can watch that video on you to reverse magister music very aligned to the public relations side of it even more so the method is, per yeah, much. jose pentecostals have always been really good. and this is a big part of their success in the modern world, is saying that you can have a good life now as well as in the ever after. it doesn't have to be
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a fire and brimstone, you can feel good as well as feel god. so it's when you, when he was hand to think of an old school evangelical in america, they're thinking of a hell fire preacher playing with rattlesnakes. and, and yelling about abortion from the pulpit in the deep south of america that been the modern pentecostal and is, is a, is a young upwardly mobile woman in, in latin america, africa. and she's concerned about her community, her family, she's interested in social justice. she's probably fairly socially conservative, but for her, the church is, is about seeing values in the here. now it's about improving your life and improving the lives of those around you and, and ultimately transforming society. and by social justice, you mean what charity him for? love really, because in the book you say, and i've got the, i've got the matthew 1924 campbell needle verse written where, but you say in the book, what's different about the prosperity gospel is the, is the exclusive idea that it's perfectly acceptable even desirable to give the
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church give to the church in order to get rich, the program to cost lives. wealth is a sign of the strength of your faith. absolutely. so again, it comes to that, that idea that about living a good life and, and the here and now and, and pentecostals do say the world very spiritually. so it is, things are often a test survey. so whether it's covered, whether it's, it's getting enough food on the table, those sorts of things or are all saying with it within a, within a world view that, that is very spiritual, is higher, that will name a few. 1920, voids oliver richmond. and to have them go through the needle pentecostal very famously, a very good at telling 2 stories at once. so he can be be concerned with, with making the world a better place. and you can also be concerned with with, with making money for yourself. and that's quite fine, and again, that, that is the, the story of the here now and ever after. i mean, there are other elements of strains of christianity and probably islam as well as
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the do this with capitalism. you say in the book neurosciences reveal the same neural systems associated with drug digging or activated. when individuals are feeling the spirit, i mean that, that, that is all clear back to marks. did you notice on your travels? yes, very much so and, and i'm not a person of faith myself. i that's an agnostic but i've, i've been to hundreds of church services around the world over the last years. and pentecostals do a good church. that has it is, it is uplifting their production values are really high that the music is, is wonderful. and, and one of the things that, that really has power pentico says, and since the beginning is, is, is music is that ecstatic worship it is. it is experience, it is what you personally feel not necessarily does what you're being told or what you're writing in the bible. it is, they're very essential and very important to people and very understandable in the modern world where, you know, people might necessarily like what experts are telling them or to read in the book . but they just know that they go to this particular church,
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or this particular passa, and they feel good about it. and it's very close based as well. and some people call it spiritual colonialism. you use that term in the book of how it spreads all around the world adapting to different cultures, whether it be latin america, road, southeast asia or africa. very much sir. and i really interesting phenomenon. we're actually saying at the moment is what's called reverse evangelism. so we thing, a lot of preachers come from africa and latin america and come to europe and america because they, they feel that they've lost their way. so liberalism is the strong society. they usually point to gay marriages as a thing that they don't like. and a lot of these pages are coming to, to re evangelize the wes ah, but, but obviously that there's other things going on and of faith. it's cited in america. 19 o 6 and spread out to the world has a lot of connotations. but unlike a lot of other christian strains of, of the faith it's, it's very localized,
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it looks and it sounds like the local culture. so for example, it's really taken off in the fellas in brazil, traditionally the catholic faith in brazil. you've had a white preacher, educated in spain, a portugal can be dropped into a small village on the fringes of the amazon or, or you know, in a feller and re diginero. ah, and bring faith to you in that very almost scholarly manner. whereas at pentecost breech preacher has bubbled up from below with you. he's probably the most charming guy in the village. oh, the fellow. he is mixed. race like you. he looks and sounds like you. he grew up playing football with you. he knows that your mother sick and goes round and visits her. he starts church at 5 in the morning because he knows everyone's got to be at work at the factory by 7 am. he will go round to the pub and tell, tell your idiot. husband said to get out of the pub and go home and look after his family, and that again is the real here. now the pentecostalism does really well and, and why it's so meaningful to pay. no, he says gone from 3 percent,
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30 percent of brazil aloe to her gangs. works in prisons help also dora, when you mentioned l g b, g p plus roads. you are talking about social conservatism. but of course in latin america, we knew about catholic liberation, theology allied with the, with the left. are you talk about guatemala? i mean, this is where pentecostalism was. i mean, it allied to death courts allied to washington. hello to pat robertson, the reagan era. death squads and contracts. yeah. got quite a mile as a really interesting case that he, it might even be the most pentecostal nation on article jurors in the grow as well in terms of percentages. but, but it, it really came through those said he was in latin america in the seventy's and eighty's. and in guatemala, that there might have been the world's 1st pentecostal leader in a friend rios mont, and he oversaw the bloody us. at 17 months of the civil war that he heavily pentecost lies the nation as well as an earthquake natural disasters at tend to
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breed pentecostalism. it gets, gets people thinking about the end of days and also about the material condition. so again, that they're here now as, as well as the ever after. and the yet, it's been very closely associated with, with american rule in that part of the world. and, and we're seeing a pentecostal drug deal has in brazil, i who are effectively militia leaders who happen to be religiously inclined. do they defacto burbridge genocide of native americans and indigenous peoples in latin america? yes. say i, in my book i did go to latin america to add to guatemala, to investigate a murder of a traditional medicine healer. and he was murdered by the people in his village, furth, prac, practicing and preach thing. this is natural medicine that's very rated in mind. traditional beliefs and, and certainly what we're saying very interestingly, in guatemala and some other places in the world is, is often indigenous lead people turning on their own former beliefs once they
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pentecost life. and and part of that is pentecostal. pentecostalism, it is very understanding of how the modern world works. so they really understand its marketplace of ideas and a marketplace of beliefs. and there's a direct competitor in terms of traditional healing and traditional artifacts and things like that. unfortunately gets violent with ideas such as spiritual warfare and, and seeing everything in terms of, of good and evil, to reader, my, my, my jury, people going to mosques one for the morning and the pentecostal church mean, well traditionally that, that was the way i, it's becoming less so now and so much say that there is one a is love except in nigeria, that is is sort of called born again, islam or charismatic islam site said that pentecostal eyes because they were losing a lot of their flock. the yorba people around lagos traditionally would into marry
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among faith. so you might have a, a christian father, animals. the mother said they might go to to both churches. you gotta make bracey grandma's happier or however it is. go going to both church and mosque and, and over time they noticed that they were losing, you know, these kids on fridays and they, they were just going to church or sunday because it's giving them health and wealth and, and putting on a really good show. and, and, and giving them a lot more than, than traditional islam. so, so one particular sect is, is, is pentagon lising in its own way, although they certainly don't like, i don't like me saying that i says like the, i from will bank ever low to answer for, in terms of the, the conversion. i mean, they also preach the and times and they completely support israel, but do they support israel and around 3 brothers to new in the sense that on the day of judgment, all the jews will then be killed and only they will go to heaven and the jews will go to hell is that their bizarre believe in israel, and it's very interesting and it's difficult to to square. and so, you know,
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a lot of historically, a lot of evangelical christians where we're fairly anti semitic until 3040 years ago. and now they are distinctly filer symmetric, but the file is really up to the n times when jesus come. yeah, no one really likes getting into that that part. but certainly the end times is a consideration for the pentagon, said miss evangelicals. but pentecostals in particular, israel is, is hugely important then. it's also symbolizes a part of the strong political alliance that we're saying. and in many ways, i think that is the more immediate concern for supporting israel. then the longer term end of days, just going out for the pro zionist parties are yes. so it's a tramp. all been boston are in brazil deterred a in philippines. they were all had very early pentecostal backing and certainly understood that there was this wing of supporters who would be quite rusted on if
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they looked after them. and i know when trump said that he was moving the embassy to jerusalem, which was a big thing for pentecostals, he said, oh yeah, it's not really for me, this is, this is for is this for the christian l. adi. thank you. that's over the show will be back on monday. 23 is to the day a good chavez was elected president of venezuela. sanction now by the usa. and you pay up to chavez, arguably, eradicate literacy and increase life expectancy until then keep in touch via social media and let us know whether you think that state failure is responsible for the rise of radical religious thinking. join me every 1st bit on the alex salmon. sure. and i'll be speaking to guess on the world politics sport business. i'm sure business i'll see you then.


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