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tv   Cross Talk  RT  December 13, 2021 11:00pm-11:31pm EST

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ah, ah, the pentagon says it won't hold any one liable for a botched drone strike and couple that killed 10 civilians, including 7 children watermark potent calls for immediate talks to stop further nato expansion towards russia's borders and a telephone conversation with british prime minister boris johnson. that's a made ongoing speculation over the situation in ukraine and the accusations towards russian and the sudanese who say they've been betrayed and had their dreams destroyed. we've got a special report about a 1000 strong protests gripping the capital there since october's group was your world news headlines for the sour on behalf for to international thanks a lot for watching. and we hope to see you again soon. ah,
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ah ah ah. ah. hello and welcome to cross stock. we're all things are considered. i'm funeral about the west relations with russia or it record lows. and there is no reason to believe this will change any time soon, however, is a grand bar impossible, as some have suggested also, as the fate of julie massage been sealed, ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guest here in moscow. maxine suits, golf, he is the director of the center for advanced american studies and moscow state institute of international relations. and we also have me 3 bob and she is
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a political analyst and editor and interest me internet media project gentlemen, cross roads and effect. that means you can jump anytime you want, and i always appreciate it. it's going to maxime 1st. we have the afterglow of the virtual thumb biden. and putin had, it seems to me to have been rather a dud. i mean, if you look at the read out for a month ago in the, in the read out from washington, not a whole lot was said, but not a whole lot was agreed to. what do you, what are your, what's your takeaway major? take away from the virtual summit, maxime, go ahead. what appears the day the, the 2 had a very tough conversation. ukraine remains to be a major stumbling block between us and russia, and perhaps we'll, we'll, we'll continue to, to be this stumbling block for some time. i think the major problem between moscow and washington at this point is that the nature of the relationship has changed fundamentally since the cold war. and they, the, it used to of all around this,
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you know, arms control issue. and now, even though the arms control issue is too important, there things like, you know, the world order where russia is not appreciated as a pure competitor to the united states and all the focuses on china. but russia is fierce as a major spoiler. even though i think if united states, you know, had to seriously considered its interest and security worldwide, they honestly wouldn't be a greater partner than russia, whether it comes to counter terrorism or european security, or even for a pretty, you know, cynic, selfish reasons as containing china i don't see the policy of pushing russia towards china by all distinctions and isolation and all kinds of stuff is really in us interest. but i'm very skeptical that things will get any better anytime soon. i mean, you're always the voice realism on this program and we really,
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really appreciate it because i couldn't agree with you more. so what, what, what is getting in the way? is that ideological? is it an ideological position that we can't get over or the washington is how i can get over? because it seems to me, it doesn't seem to me. ukraine is not part of nato. russia made it very, very clear that it's a red line after being promised, and as a cold war was going to end, the nature wouldn't expand at all. it's expanded 700 miles to russia's doorstep. so it ideology is the, is the bone of contention. am i wrong, where i think is there is a mature of, of a bunch of factors here on one hand, it is all a short while i d, all that you really is. i think we can see a bunch of examples where the same people or routing for ideological things are pretty fine with dealing in a pragmatic sense with other states that are not put in my live democratic. so i think i'd be ology is a cover up for a greater geo politics and stuff. but again,
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like i said, i don't really see that pretty realistic geopolitical calculations kick in. even if only for one thing that you know, somebody wants to keep pressure busy at its western front and not getting dish with china dust, you know, fueling this, you bring crisis, maybe in the interest. but honestly, i don't think it's in long term interest of the united states. what's been going on there, if you and i've talked about what it would take to reorient on russia's relationship with the west and vice versa here. but the problem, and the reason why i followed up with my question with maxine about ideology is the, is at this point in time, we look at the bond ministration, the trump administration now the binding ministration of the box themselves into a corner. because if you make a deal now it's called the p man did munich it, they did, they have done this, they've done this rhetorically and ideologically, it's really them. and then the a p,
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if it was an intentional leakage because i was always an anonymous source. you know, that by knew basically quietly said to your brain because it was a bite in the call after the virtual stomach thing saying that, you know, you know, cool your heels, you're not going to get in for 10 years. i mean, it seems to me that they're the ones that are in the quandary here. russia has made it very clear. it's position okay. and, and they, in washington doesn't know how to respond, particularly nato. go ahead. i just don't see any brig magic realism behind mr. why don't section the actions or the west in general. i mean these one friends, democracy, which they conveniently renamed. you know, some in support of your more precious or something. if everyone sees the break, my think results will be worse. i mean, not to stay in a big china, i'm only china, also its allies, basically turkey, congress wilson, why the,
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these are important. so i think the reasoning behind this is because i don't see how they lead to state or they were being union, i willing to gain anything by, for example, preaching any activity around been to, you know, i energy crisis. so here, if they register, i know the prices will go down in mental oh us, you know, maybe days and they're not doing it. doing the open it. you know that the major theme in the german press during the last week was we can only pressure him by saying that we're going to make him to and that roger, this is not going to do with it has nothing to do with pregnant is beulah division i your g trinity and what's going on is that, you know, these people are trying to forget. i was,
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i was just puzzled by this article by karcher lawyer in the washington boston. so that being in piece, you know, she is a german english historian. and she basically affect, i'll give america for, for later this most due to being finished and been talking. and i'm going to call it because this is on crow, helps out the music guy just sense of continued guilt or with germany is, military isn't on give american data to pass that through the standard just didn't get and she didn't to africa. well, i mean, this is, this is, i'm president and the guy here, um, you should have no, ma'am, are you always military isn't? this is something new and you know, what is very alarming is that new tree is actually answering the drum and what it takes from the back door if the knots. * is sad with you period because well the,
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the people who are taking on rules now it's much more sophisticated. we're more democratic than that. where greener than that, where more would you mind that makes us you period. and that allows us, for example, the green somehow and we can send you an arm stupidly. and then the whole history around ross is going to bring tomorrow. we should make it clear to watch and he's going to buy a price. you know that there was this, it was like an option. what can we do? you want an actual brain, you know, very most into a rush from the suite connection. it was a craziness that junior for the for week. yes, i mean maxime, be the oddity of, you know, bringing north stream to back into this. the only reason they have the one stream $1.00 and $2.00 is because ukraine ended up being an unreliable energy partner as
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a transit country. that's the reason why i came and had nothing to do with ideology or anything else. it was brass tacks, and it was north for him to we have to remind our audience. it was the germans that asked for. it wasn't the russians to propose that it was the germans here. maxine nato was in a quandary right here because i have always argued on this program that if nato doesn't continue to expand it, it will have no reason to exist. and this is the quandary. they have created for themselves and what is happen? i thought international relations was about compromise, quid pro quo, all these kinds of things here. but there's no, there's no way in to have a pragmatic conversation. it's, it's always, i mean, remember the foreign minister, the soviet for minister romito. he was mr. me, yes. well, nato and the went to the alliance become mr. net into a 2021. well, 1st of all, i think we have to tell our listeners that the major perception of need to it in
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russia, that it's not kind of a collective military of political alliance, per se, as more of the youth and ms. and for american military presence in europe. so that has to be clear that when moscow does not really, especially in the last few years, does not really feel like talking to any european power but wants to reach out directly to washington d. c. that is a clear reflection of the russian understanding of who is really a pulling the strings behind this whole organization. secondly, for a major political military alliance to exist after its initial kind of stage, it's important for it to have a new agenda and the new members. so the new agenda that the americans are apparently and try to promote with europeans was containing china, which is hard to do with an ally and such as needed to, you know, and therefore this idea of, you know, research and or assertive russia is back in the game,
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so the more chaos and conflict is around russia, the more ideological or see political reason there is for need exists. and finally, you need to have this new members. and at some point you end up with, you know, what, you know, with these members actually work in detail. the talent, major nato allies, such as the united states in western european. so what their priorities should be, how dangerous russia is, by merely pushing their own agenda and they're all sort of traumas into the, which is i think on acceptable. and then, and, you know, and now i see you're absolutely right. and the, the greatest nightmare of these countries is that they would be a, an overture to washington over their head. this is something that i'm eastern european. i'll go back to the treaty of versailles. i mean, you know, you know, you, you recognize this nation states. but you don't do anything to protect our security
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and the same thing is repeating itself all over again. and at the end of the day, gentlemen, it is washing in the calls, the shots. it's there, it's their military alliance. and when the germans and the french drag their feet there listen to, but other countries not deem of finish up on this point before we go to the break. well my team has been very major. i'm just a magic for me, but anyway i, he's a scholar, you know, go ahead, you know, i'm thinking in simple terms, me just that make all the have a line of the headline. so then, you know, last week we should treat russia a state and then a number of credit lines in the pony express, which i also read in the original same ration me make a secret deal permanent with crowns over the states. all. so this is insane because the european countries in the situation and any chance for dialogue,
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you know, i mean, i'm going america and my going to want to have a meeting with and who bought it. it was the east european countries. so we have this terrible situation around because it wants to rush or from the side of the united states and from western europe is strength, long down. but by the, from the east european i been here, we're going to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on some real news. stay with our team. for right now, 2000000000 overweight or a suitable to sell food that he's fancy and sugary. i'm salty on the thing. it's not at the individual level. it's not individual willpower, and if we go on believing that will never change this obesity epidemic, that industry has been influencing very deeply. the medical and scientific
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establishment. mm. so what's driving the obesity epidemic? it's corporate in a wrong one. i'll just don't hold any world that you have to fill out. this thing becomes the advocate. an engagement equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds of warren, we choose to look for common ground. ah, well, the magic cross that we're all things are consider 9 people a bell. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news with
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go back to maxime here in moscow. let's change gears. over the past week we julianna's, and that the fact that the julius, i shall be expedited to the united states so much is much closer to reality. now, with the court's decision in the u. k. the, the interesting thing about what's his expedition fight against being sent to the united states. if this happened, this trial happened. court proceeding happened during the quote unquote democracy summit. joe biden was leading an international human rights day. i mean, the irony of ironies here i am covering the story. i have covered it from the very, very beginning because most western media don't want to cover it in the irony of that is that they love julianna's songs for years. they loved weekly leaks for years, and now journalists have turned their back on him. on the day of an international
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human rights. he's a prominent person that has been denied his. the hypocrisy is breathtaking. go ahead. well, i think it's very important that you mentioned that the, the summit of democracy here because it not only is just an attempt on part of the united states to research local institutions. and in a way to replace the national security council, the united nations with this mocker. c leak in the long term. but it's also a way to reset it's domestic image, especially following a issue with the attacker with the transporters, entering congress and january that's created. so a lot of, you know, on the democrats and saying, well, you know, american democracy in crisis. so not in a way is, is it's very important to show that internal domestic terrorist has this. they can
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label our are those who are whistleblowers really are talking about ranks of the internal system generally in the west has to pay the price for not supporting the general image of, you know, a solid inter democracy with integrity or western side with integrity. so i think our sounds really is jason point here and he feel free to these are domestic battle as also as international battle. it didn't let me, i'm really glad that this was brought up that maxine brought this up because what's very curious to me is that this summer was about promoting democracy. but in my opinion, it wasn't ok. i think 1st of all, it was a sham number one, but number 2, what it is is that it's a defensive reaction on part of the neo liberal elite. this is what this is about democracy. i mean, the ukraine was invited to this conference, but the united states and its allies over through
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a democratically elected government in ukraine, in february of 2014, in this calendar year. affording that the democratic will, the people have been, is wally in nicaragua. so this is all about neo liberalism and maintaining the status quo. and maxine is absolutely right. it is, this is a on a front to the united nations. it's in front of the united nations security council where they want to do and what and we're doing aside to report it on the crimes neoliberalism. go ahead, the more i think you're quite right, a summit. just want to share. i mean, when representatives of your grade i see on the panel discussion corruption. i mean like, as far as i remember there were 2 goals set by the conference after the authoritarian regimes called our focus. yes. and i didn't corruption, you know, well do it on a starter. if you look at wiki leaks,
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the amount of materials that you provided on corruption in size, the former soviet union, not only in the west, but you know, we can support what, how can the breast use the mess with it? and you are absolutely right. it's the same when the people who use even from a technical point of view, they use the research done by week. and now creating do i found one step closer to be extradited to the states? it's awful, and i quite agree with my see him that basically the aim, all that sounds fair is to scare people. i mean, don't you even think about becoming a bond more whistle bought a little bit, much know them. he barely escaped. he's leaving them. he's even safe by the way. i want to make us suffer, and unfortunately, i think they will ever notice if it was the 1015 since i am
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not a single person or the same stager as a song or snowed simply because it is so dangerous it is. so i've been in now 3 young people, you know? yeah, you're probably going to be a separate but i don't want to be, you know, having the same destiny as bradley chelsea remaining or the same thing twice before and. and i agree with you the fact the whole think coincided with this one for and so she's just awful or next thing. but again, you know, the rule of law here, i mean, the condition, the british court, i believe, of the, the american position that, that he would get a fair trial that his, i can find it would be not extraordinary, like super max or something like that. i mean, i don't know why
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a british court would believe anything about the d o j. when it comes to julian, astonished because this is, this is not even, it is not even really political in the sense that, you know, if it's not trump versus buying, you're biting versus obama. this is the national security state, and the rule of law means nothing to them. they will, they will get what they want. and that's the message that they're sending out. the british court is punted and i think it's really shameful on part of the british authorities. because once he's out of their custody, they have no control over what is going to happen to him whatsoever. they can say, well, send him back. i mean, once the plane is off the tarmac, it's over and i seriously doubt that will ever know what will, what will eventually happen to julie massage because national security reasons. ok . and then again, rule of law and the in the human rights of one individual on display for the whole world to see go ahead,
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maxine will. sure. i also think the problem is that the julian assange sometime ago became a hot potato issue for any government that wanted to deal with him. so that at some point the government ecuador was pressured to the point because they don't really have this major strategic sovereignty to stand up to the pressure of the anglo saxon giants. and then the british also didn't want to deal with him because they thought, you know, that they did the sooner we get rid of him and it's no longer our problem. obviously his fate is i think, very, you know, to be, to be worried about. and that i think he's, he's case should be a reminder of the danger of the unit or, and the unicorn dominance of snowdon, who was also mentioned, there was perhaps more lucky to find shelter in russia, even though it wasn't his voice. right. he ended up here and was lucky enough that he can, he can find security here. others that's, that's
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a big issue because there is no really a place to hide for these was wars inside western systems are because, you know, as a sun k shows that they could be traced and found and, and that's exactly speaks to this, you know, scare, uh, scary them all for principal who are for more philosophy. if there was a time when we see leaks were celebrated and julianna's orange was celebrated by journalist by the major broad fees, they made a lot of money off of him. off of leaks hard work, which i'd like to point out to everyone we lease as a sterling record for for getting it right. probably no other news organization in the world can compare themselves to the accuracy of it. and that's the big problem, isn't edema because doing it and we can lead to the job. the journalists are supposed to do. ok, but they don't do it anymore. they carry water power and they don't and,
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and doing the science is an inconvenient for individual inconvenient organization weekly weeks because it shows just how pitiful their their profession is. and they are, as journalists go ahead. well, you're right, it's a guilty conscience, you know, the quantum. so on the west, the need yet. i mean, let's remember our sounds, diesel. why? it's single time. they didn't change a single letter, a single work in what they report that you know, the weekly and what did with that with the waste immediate in 20022003000. so we need to all the west. we're saying the same trend and so my struction, they never just so these people lied and they were surprises for the things like russia gave for the reports from the lease that said, you know, no one wants to send them to jail and they live in junior for years and our sons
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who didn't live single time, is no place in such a table weight. so that's why i think the mainstream media was together because it's so we can, you know, into mind them or their own since the same story without once know them. i mean, they publish stuff and it turned out to be co to be right. all these millions old recording, so phone conversations in spain in prompts. they have an ongoing medical school, they will all right, brock, he's a criminal, some called and these journalists are, were you surprised maxine, rapidly running out of time, you brought up the unipolar world. it's interesting, this democracy submits the faith of, of julian as i see this, all of that as a defensive position because the whole moment is gone. it's over. but american foreign policy leads and their acolytes around the world, they refused to accept that. and this democracy for some, it was
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a self reassuring but then you were still in charge and we still control the global narrative. but it's not true, it's facade, and i think it's a weakness on their part. last minute goes, do you, my friend going upstairs? i think that's exactly the point here, the very idea new and the idea to host this summit right now is a blunt attempt to return to the comfort zone of early 90. 90 is following the break up of the soviet union, but there is no longer this comfort zone in today's world. and that's a problem for everyone. and i would say on top of that, is that, and we look at the biden ministration, they're looking for some kind of foreign policy success. and if they're going to hang their hat on this summit or the complexity of complexities of ukraine, i think they're sorely going to be sorry, unless they want to force some issue here. gentlemen,
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that's all the time we have want to thank my guest here in moscow. and i think our viewers are watching us here, or do you see you next? i'm remember. ah ah, ah, what a piece. as emerge, we don't have a terribly, we don't to look back seen, world needs to take action to be ready. people are judgment, common crisis with we can do better, we should be better. everyone is contributing each in their own way. but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenge is great,
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the response has been massive. so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together with scientific knowledge has never been so readily available to everyone across the globe, but overwhelmed by information. can we distinguish the real science from the one being imposed upon us? we're living in a world where there are many people who have a vested interest in finding information, finding scientific evidence, and discrediting even the notion that science could provide the truth about the natural world in the pursuit of business goals. large corporations are challenged, strongly by scientific evidence if you're emotionally invested and free markets than climate change is a serious emotional threat. because dealing with that means we have to change our
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approach to business industries or on the war bar, attempting to debunk legitimate science by producing new evidence in science, writing science. that's how ignorance is manufactured, their attention only seeking to the rail science rolling using science against itself. opposed to weight sold again in the scale say between poll, you've got like, was a good segment as a breaking that you put in on your plate. and it's like you thought of context, a break in there. right? yeah. way in 1st place is free. i want to play a role in helping to raise the awareness of the american people about the impact of these drugs called sugar on b mental.


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