[000:00:00;00] ah, ah hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . there are 2 kinds of conflicts being fought in ukraine, a western design in controlled propaganda war targeting russia and a russian military campaign that is changing the security dynamics of the european continent. and western propaganda is hell bent on escalation. i cross sucking propaganda. i am joined by my guest carlin nixon in washington. he's a political animals and providence. we have vladimir goldstein. he is the chair of

the department of slavic studies at brown university and. and also we have bjorn, nice that he is an author and head of kaleidoscope russian information center are joining cross sack rules and the fact that means you can jump in any time you want . and i would appreciate a vladimir, let me go to you 1st here. american officials really reveal themselves when they're asked about the conflict in ukraine. i, in one a good example. as the secretary of defense laid austin in kev. he was asked about america's aims and all of this. and he said, the u. s. hopes, russia will be, quote, unquote, weakened by the war. and what is i have to do with ukraine per say. other than you know, it is a proxy go head vladimir inadvertently. you're asked for a bargain propaganda in a to propaganda it meets. that is a go of it. their purpose is not so much into using the beast. between the 2 warring nino countries not bringing them together,

but actually they engage in very heavily financed for oxy war with russia is a purposes to direct russia deeper and to weaken it. so we can with totally contradictory germs. whereas diplomacy in this patient diplomacy presupposes some kind of negotiation for the sake of bees bees or this, it doesn't weaken the country. so you know, on or the one hand, you know, nato countries in the rest as were one. these were ones, she's, she's a hostilities, but the other hand, they a store in trouble. they are supplying more and more weapons. they are, you know, booting and strengthening and doing all sort of thing is russia in order to, for the water escalate. so it's, it's really confusing, but unfortunately the western public do not hear this will say hear something different day in day out, that poor innocence, ukraine, this is this, david has to challenge the, you know, almighty, goliath, that's the story which they bush, but behind the behind the scenes is quite or was it?

yeah, by garland me. i've pointed out on this program a number of times, i mean go back to 2014, after the legal overthrow, the democratic government of unit coverage. and then on crimea left the don bass left. and now we have this conflict that started on february 24th and looking at the military conflict here, i think we should say the obvious that ukraine gets smaller and smaller. the more at the west supports this government in camp. i mean, i don't, i don't see what the ukrainians are getting out of this here. in fact, if, if in fact, it is a proxy war, president zalinski is demanding that to us cough up $2000000000.00 a month just in, you know, descended over will. so, you know, we'll send you a receipt later. i mean, this is getting absurd. go ahead. garland of 2 things. you know, i think we err if we view a vladimir zalinski as the president of ukraine. he is an actor and he does nothing

other than what he's to buy his masters in washington dc. that's number one. i think also on it, we, 8, we have to view ukraine as a proxy war against russia, but it serves dual proxy purposes in the united states is at war with russia slash china slash multi polarity. so that the idea, the concept of weakening russia is so that it would be easier to confront china and ultimately let's not forget even india, which i think they're smart enough to know they have aspirations of being a world power. at some point they have the population, they have the industry in the technology, and eventually, you know, they know that their number will come. so this is about weakening any potential powers that could threaten us world to gemini. and right now they're starting with russia via ukraine. beyond, in our slow, if we take lloyd austin's words to heart, you know, he wants to weaken russia, but it seems to me it's weakening europe as a result as well. i mean, decide an american goal. i mean,

obviously they want to have a gemini over europe, and they don't want you to be competitors, but i don't see how the europeans win in this hype of scenario. go ahead in oslo. it's did, this is obvious. one of the american, the goals is to have a conflict between germany. he do european union and, and russia to still been in the risk of gas or oil and all the natural resources. trump just shut the door money. and of course this with your money, it would be in the europe and, but it was presumably is saying them america. so this is obviously will know the age of the diesel war and that the americans and all the rest and how we're sort of h at it against asha. but i, i think there are of the aim suspend. i think the a mother american although, hey tom,

this is not just to propaganda it fixed in the ukraine, but the u. v. victory, they hope to win this war. and then then they would start an older warrant aggression against the russia. if it russia should loosen the ukraine, americans on there, i loss of it will do the same to russia as they did to it. the former yugoslavia that they would started to split the country. so this is an existence sooner threat to russia. it since that so called end of the cold, the war, the aim over america has been to crush m as split the russia. and then for the, for the city, since in the does it have been a, it's bounded. yeah, i've had this a coup in the ukraine, and the american said, done everything possible to, to provoke if war in the ukraine. it looked like they weren't patasha uminski

agreement slip of, they encouraged them the ukrainians to, to start what was that even an attack on a gun boss? if it a shot the act that the military, it don't bosses others who would have been the don't, it's been a median. this is and says it, city and population city would have been occupied by your train and forces and you with catastrophic assistant situation. so that the americans forced to her russia to reactivate militarily, of course, is the so called the ukrainian, the president, this, your spend them america with went with the, the result was a lot of mirror. and this is what we have led to believe that there was going to be a ukrainian attack on the don bass. hence they had the vast majority. the ukranian side is the mass majority of their military in the east. well, it's been just completely cut off from the west. they keep talking about winning vladimir winning, winning this war. but the war is already lost, but one more that they were killed, they do seem when is the propaganda war?

because that's, if you look at cable tv, what you see is a propaganda war. you don't see a real war. go ahead. vladimir. yeah, there is definitely a gee, and narratives. and unfortunately, today's world, you know, who are controls in energy. if you know control controls, ecology. so i think it's are, you know, until eventually reality actually looks into our faces and heats our face. but what i'm being is just narrative and that it was very strong. you know, in this and degree is analis amount of be just a bomb houses and what it on extra, there's bomb houses weren't on the bus in 2015. yes, ma'am. they are gullible, western public by the speak just and thinks that, you know, this will russian empire, which is always a will. and it is always up to some mischief is destroying innocent live. so this is propaganda by this program. it can be a big city, in other words, for how long this lice can go on. remember, for example,

how united states decided to support it. again, it's done support that kind of the most outrageous kind of violence. people have blue line who was fighting there. they gave them all the weapons exactly like, you know, nowadays in the grade and then these guys john against united states and then united states got an older dentist than well, for 4 years. so this propaganda for danger propaganda. what is it eventually the, the, the, or the is begin to believe their own lives and the ones that this happened? they don't do with allergy altogether. oh, yeah. well, because they the, as long as you have a narrative without context, you can get away with just about anything. garland, i'm glad that vladimir brought that up. you could mention afghanistan, yes, supporting the worst part of the elements of society. the break up of yugoslavia, libya, syria, you know, on and on and on. it's the same playbook. and now we have these nazi like characters that are deeply embedded in the ukranian military and security apparatus

in the government. and the u. s. once again, their money, we've seen this hor picture before, and it always ends badly. garland or one of the things that's happening to here that i think is important is to understand that there is economic pain in the west, including the united states. the, you know, when we talk about the information war, when we talk about the propaganda war, we have to remember it is aimed at the people of the united states. it is aimed at the people in europe and, and at the west, specifically because if these people knew the truth, they wouldn't support the activities that their government is carrying out. because it's not in their best interest in any way, shape or form. i do believe that time is not on the side of these. i mean i, we use the words neocons, but let's be honest. they're just fascist. and it's only reasonable that these fastest would be aligned with the fastest in the, in, in, you know, whether it's afghanistan or in ukraine. but i think times not on their side,

because as the economic pain rises in the united states and in europe, the people are going to ask their leaders to address that economic pain and the incompetent, hapless bunglers that are trying to model their way through this particular a no problem, the crisis in ukraine are wholly unable to address the problems at home. and i think the problem that the us in far in power is going to have is uprisings at home, uprisings in europe and being unable to hold their coalition together. it would shock me, you know, if they can make it through the end of the summer into the fall. if not that, when it gets cold, the empire is going to have to start looking inward to save itself. well we, we do have reports for british media talking about fuel insecurity. i haven't heard that one before. there's a lot of insecurities when we have fuel insecurity. one of the month, one of the most prosperous countries in the world with millions and millions of people in britain will be facing fuel insecurity. if this issue hasn't been

resolved about a russian energy to europe and it's self inflicted my friends, they decided this, they don't walk this commodity. no one is forcing them to import it. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on propaganda staying with me. one moment when i would show the wrong one, i just don't move any world yet to shape out. disdain becomes the attitude and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart,

we choose to look for common ground. lou needs to come to the russian state patrol narrative. i've stayed as i phone and the most landscape div us. mm hm . the american culture, also a group in the city of abilene. okay, so mine is 25 i speaking with we will van in the european union, the kremlin. yup, machines. the state aren't russia for date, and school ortiz spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all bands on youtube instead we put the question, did you think it was for channels with

me? ah, since the break away at the donates people's republic was been ranging and don't boss ukrainian. artillery it's been shelling civilian, townsend, mining village. is that your more lovely deal with what i grew up with new school with a deal about one of the subject little of as of all of the 3 of the little boys will give those bullet one ah, welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered on peter level to remind

you we're discussing propaganda. ah. okay, let's go back to burn in in our slow building. i mean, as a european. um yeah. how do you take, and how are we, are people in your country viewing this attempt to completely utterly cancel russia in every sense of the term? i mean, it's literature, it's music, it's athletes and everything. i've never seen anything like this on this scale. you know, it is, it's a collective guilt and apparently, you know, that was something we shouldn't um, apply to all individuals of one group. and that's exactly what's happening here. it's really remarkable for me to see western liberalism really show their true, intolerant face go, had been at some region and i am in the region. mass media are not not, and we have a, had the in to use with ukrainian. the shorter shoots are so boasting how the kids are at oceans and so on. and even during the verse 2 periods of the cold war,

we did not have the stem only station, not mother. of course it's the so it union the, the political system of them amazed at that. then there was some kind of sympathy for ordinary people in the soviet union for ordinary russians. but to day be, have it, did you, did it, a sister hash just them on this haitian of it, a russian coke turner at or a russian a p people, everything connected, they did a sham and this, in my opinion, charles oakley, have today is an attempt of the rest, to destroy a sham of course it's also was plan then all the mass media record united and so m. so that the is, is a very interesting situation and in my view, but what's happening today, you sent an extension to, to the ocean. and the, and that our show must use every, every possible means to,

to win this war and re gain control of the territory of ukraine. otherwise, russia tends to be destroyed. yeah. well, platinum, aaron, so a russian yourself here. so, i mean, i've come across these, these articles in western media, in all of russia's woes, go back to adult ski abaski in the other great writers of the 19th century. i mean, you're an expert on this here. i found resend literature from the 19th century, inspiring but apparently it's the devil's work. vladimir explain? yeah, it's, you know, leverage is amazing and i'm a teacher teaching a course this semester on their uncle story. and this they ask in students, admire that. and every, every one brings something to it, to their tax, and bring a lot of art with a stick. it's ministry to reach tremendously, kind of rewarding a culture and in a killers character counseling, think which are destruction are the most, is that you can can. so maybe you know, tennis player mid video for over a single nebraska, but you can, you know, again,

so jewel griffey, you can cancel history. you cannot against our a culture. you know, it all is liberal school. who will i have more than happy to blame russia. they. they are very much concerned with climate changes. clarissa. ok, why is the biggest chunk of earth? it's it's, it's absolutely involved in solving the global problems, including climate. well, how can you cancel this? be jan, bristle and, and then to try to talk about, you know, control in the resources not to abuse in mother earth. this isn't equal the same thing with history. you know, when all that history i just looked at the date in 271927. great reason decided that the rashly spying against them the whole think it was a blade then like scruples. there was some kind of energy which got some intelligence and russians are going to steal india from, from great britain. so they broke a magic relationship, only like several years later that historian,

because they realized that there is another threat on the horizon. hitler. and it's a country one, maybe we can be their partners. in other words, this is unbelievable in my, your big, unbelievably self kind of gorging. and eventually, i agree, it was your time is on the russian side, because you can cancel, you know, such a powerhouse as a russian this, you know, you can cancel the united states, you're going to cancel china and it will absurd to cancel, you know, russia. yeah. but garland, it's really quite a standing that there even attempting to do that. i mean, you know, russia is a very, as played a very important role in modern european history in world politics. and this attempt to cancel and to demonize. i mean, if you just use, you know, in the, you're looking at the rhetoric that's using, again, being used against russian to demonize all russians. i mean, if you said that about israelis, you know what people would say, you know, if you said that about muslims, you know what people would say, but it doesn't count when it comes to russians that is extraordinary. and that

shows how hollow liberalism is in the west today. go ahead. garland. yeah, i agree with you. and i think we, you know, we should look too deep into this philosophically into what they're doing. it is simply a tactic. it is simply a, a, you know, a tactic that used currently, they're not thinking this in, into this deeply in the same way. if you remember, when donald trump was running, he was a sexual sexist. and a massage in this, when bernie sanders was run it, he was a sexist in a misogynist. now to russia, they have a one or 2 tactics. and they use these tactics regardless of the opponent. that's all they have. i think this is what we have to also understand is what we're looking at. and i think we have the start using that term. the ultra liberals, the neocons are really fascists and they really don't care. they use words and accusations as a means to an end. they don't care if there is any substance to what they're saying . in fact, i would argue that the censorship we're seeing now is a war on critical thinking. what,

what google and facebook and twitter are all doing is they're trying to ensure that the non substantive, superficial arguments that are put forward by the state department. and that the a and the, and our intelligence communities are not evaluated. that there is no depth of argument and they have to the censorship to meet demonstrates that they are losing and that the people who are making in depth arguments are hurting, hurting their, their cause. and i just think they're desperate right now. yeah, i think there is an enormous amount of desperation here because the more they say that the, the russians are losing the ukrainians are winning, the more desperate they get, you know, the warren and that goes to all of these war crimes, accusations, false flag operations. and i actually with the 2nd phase of the military operation on going in ukraine. i expect a lot more of the sensationalist story so far,

every single one of them has fallen apart. but that's not for trying. go ahead, burn it in a way you could say that the isa accusation of war crimes are in the way encouraging it because it means that the ukraine is losing the war and the american, the warmongers, i are getting it desperate and i am sure there would be new crow occasions. i am almost 100 percent percent sure. soon there will be an a your sation of a it, are you seeing 80 some kind of same because in the ukraine yesterday to provoke a waste and intervention. okay. but like i'm here at the end of the day, ukraine is really a foot note and all of this. and if you look at blink in austin and all these other clowns,

what they worry most is that they want to deny russia any kind of victory. that's their, that's what they want it, they don't care the damage. should they create the carnage? they don't care about any of it. they don't want what it particularly lie to me or boot in to win. that's what this is all about. vladimir. yeah, i think what's important is garlan mentioned beyond is that they want to set an example for other cons. now. yeah, you know, fighting against, you know, kind of miles people or wall. and if the marriage to kind of, to get that victory over russia, one way or another, it's end of it kind of cheating message that china dream did don't mess with. and that's what they tried to do. so it is an essential struggle. i would say for own form of multi polar walls of world with respects, you know, each country you know, is this kind of united states can hit germany, which manifests itself in there. a different germany in the political hit germany in admitted that a huge, eminent and so on. and you know,

what is interesting is to, to go back to history. you know, i, you know, i've seen it before. i've seen it in when you do that in newspapers, into 3 channels, try to impose a narrative. i remember like, you know, you mentioned that you. ok. you fighting a role in the was of 6770 and so was it was the saw is do they just cancel it or what is it? it does not mention they put it in some information. there of course is a, we knew it was a losing, and the whole is laughing and it, you know, you can and cancel you. you have to always, you know, i'm not saying that this can do right. this comes, you know, but you have to treat him, you know, even handedly and you know, because i want to live a whole lot of belinda became a laughing stock. and now when they see this, this propaganda to over baganda did that. i have the same feeling, you read it totally stupid allies. fences is peddled as some kind of drew's. yeah.

you know, go and what, what i find really interesting is that, you know, you have all these, i blow hard on tv, you know, we have to defend the, the sovereignty of ukraine. but there's an open western southern border in the united states. and then, you know, everyone should it be able to determine their security means, except for russia. i mean, it's all the russian so aren't allowed to have any kind of security needs. i mean they, they would, they, they trip over their own feet in their own mouths every single day and talking about this. it doesn't make any coherent sense whatsoever. go ahead, garland. well, the hypocrisy is astounding. in fact, just in the last few days, scott morrison from the, from australia said that the u. s. and the u. k. was drawing a red line in the solomon islands that is 9000 miles from the united states, a 1000 kilometers from australia, the u. s. and the u. k. say that's a red line. now ukraine is less than one millimeter from russia. russia has no sphere of influence. and meanwhile,

the u. s. and the u. k. apparently have taken the whole pacific the pacific ocean. and my question would be this, does the solomon islands have a red line? apparently there is no sovereignty. it only applies to ukraine. it does not apply to the solomon's island. i mean, they have broken the hypocrisy meter here in the last few days. well, i think garland, that's why the global south doesn't want to have anything to do with this because they, the further you get away from london in washington, the more hypocritical it seems. ok, that's why they're not throwing their lot in this. they have to take care of their people. they're thinking about their own sovereignty and not make allowing others to dictate what that sovereignty is. that's the world we live in, gentlemen, that's all the time we have many. thanks them i guess in washington, and in oslo. thanks to our viewers for watching us iraqi. see you next time remember?

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ah oh, is your media a reflection of reality? in a world transformed what will make you feel safe? isolation or community? are you going the right way or are you being led to direct? what is true? what is great? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. ah,

with industry to restock and just look up. some of natalie mussels on noon she kitty doesn't being in the green shield on at nash domingos place you mom with cook. gosh, 6, good to somebody to look at that to his ashley of a day see, wanted to work with one to move please this, but of course, position to p. b. you but not, not, but the key for the chino bryanston, that'll work for furnished or something like that. and then we are at that point, did i see it? a little grain lisa ah, global multi polarity, russia, security concerns on peace efforts. those are some of the topics discussed on the un chiefs 1st visit to russia since the conflict from ukraine begun with the russian president reiterating hopes of indigo shaded agreement with,

despite the fact that the military operation is ongoing, we still hope that we will be able to reach agreements on the diplomatic front, we are negotiating. we do not reject the negotiations. you case all the poll says, minutes that says ukraine, you should be able to target russia with western weapon. russian foreign ministry says nato countries are competing to send more lethal weapons to ukraine