tv Worlds Apart RT May 15, 2022 1:30am-2:00am EDT
ah, with long welcome to worlds apart, the old lady, mary lynn, is maxime show me your friends, and i'll tell you who are the more relevant today, especially in the context of the war torn ukraine. not only politics, but an entire worldview can be deducted from where one sounds on the conflict. how much do these before clients influence the front lines? well to discuss that i'm now joined by emmanuel to get her born italian author, and political consultant. mr. peter bohn is good to talk to you. thank you very much for a time. thank you very much for an individual. now i know that for you, the conflict in ukraine is not just about ukraine now or it's territory. you wrote
recently that it's a battlefield where the west, russia and other big players are fighting over diversions of and you world daughter . i wonder if this transition to a new world order is inevitable. i do think it can actually be averted if one of the sides is specifically the west. prevails in my, you being, you'll know, ah, the transition to want to polarity is inevitable. and the event will defeat russia would only slow down the line off the western dominion over war. the reasons are several of them have to do with the west, not only speaking about to the loss. so they show credibility, the loss of economic interests over dork. i'm or eyes of china,
for instance. i'm speaking about the west. i speak to the concert called to and speaking about the demographic crisis, the birth of the economy. price is within the west. for the more and more level, the increased level of florida is a children's fragmentation western side. so the reason in simple reason and all these reasons have to do with west, we might not only my opinion, but also the opinion of several political scientists will inevitably lead to the decline of west or medium over to ward. i think some of the west, especially in the liberal camp, they're also hoping for a transition to your brand new will that it is sort of a transition back to the future. for example, frances will be, i'm a prominent american political scientist who was a frequent guess and, you know,
very influential figure in here over the last couple of years, he rode recently that a russian defeat will make possible a new birth of freedom. 2 and that it will allow to renew this period of 1989. putting aside the ability, why do you think that period of 1989, the falling berlin wall, the collapsing soviet union? this emerging american unit, larry, why do you think it was so shortly? the spirit of 89 was so short believe because as you said, it was led by the collapse of the soviet union. so it wasn't truly generally. it was a dollar drive and let's say, so i'm not saying that it was the money factor because it wasn't ok. but it was a man led by the rise of the polar moment.
and as soon as the war experience it on fair. so in the many more that it is the unit polar moment in particular to what they are, the bomb being the, on the ground on the ground. do ward started the turning the little overnight. so it wasn't about russia because russia at that time was a week, was a plenty of time, no problem. it wasn't about china, which was focused on our internal growth. it was for other reasons. so i can't, i can't agree with the spirit of 89 because i really as a, as a said that the spirit was mainly alert drive them. and the,
and the very short, regardless of the outcome of this battle for a new world, the united states will remain a very influential country. whatever they do, they will still be a major player, a supreme player. why do you think they are going to such great lengths and frankly, such risks. now, in openly confronting russia when they, you know, to get something that they already have an abandoned, why, what it, what is it exactly the day after? the thing is that the european and american joe politics has a lot to do with russia. so the right the states, it's already the 1st measure power of the war. but in order to keep being a global empire, the u. s. let's say like works. there are some kind of divide that
rule over asian because a kind said, and you know, my kind or use the phone, the father of politics, rules over roger rules over door. so for us is not meant there of mentally confronting russia is matter of keeps being the measure power over average, because the medium over russia gives the united states the lead over door. you also mentioned them to one of your recent articles that divide an administration in the, in this, in their policy via crane and their sounds on the ukrainian conflict is trying to kill 2 birds with one stone undermine russia, as you said. but also we can, the berlin paris acts is that is to reduce the influence of those political forces
in europe, who are in favor of europe's larger autonomy and strategic autonomy from the united states. how advanced is washington at this point in accomplishing these 2 goals? well, i think the by them administration achieve the goal because the european powers deal, strategical, don't. i mean as put to sleep has been put to sleep. nobody is talking about the distinction the damp with the rush. there are only speaking about this is for the best and the end of the coupling, which was very, very important. i was on the economy, the link between the european market and russian market has been gone for the energy, the coupling. it will be a matter of months of yours,
but it will take place. and as you know, the stream to is that, and then we have not to which some years ago was the fine the brain dead by mach wrong, but now is more alive than ever before. and it seems like it is even going to be a large with the entry of sweden and finland. so from my point of view by them administration is already achieved. the goal is sure that americans are moving very fast in, in terms of that strategic objectives that i think it's only starting to join on the european how much they will have to pay for that in, you know, literal terms. you know, every single european citizen and you know, ad supermarket or at a gas station, but also in strategic and tactical terms. as the cost of these policies become more clear to the european people. do you think, you know,
those results that the americans have achieved for now? do you think they could be sustain? let's start from these. nothing left forever. so when a speaker about the by the administration and shipping the goal and speaking about the short or the best of the mean that, that as for the show or to meet them, there can be no peace, no growth between noon on. and the rush is more than sure about the cost of the long term sustainability. and this is very interesting. actually, the mighty states hoped for a lead bounce, big 3 and the red cent, the financial actions. because a micron is a seen as an obstacle between the american agenda for europe and the european
agenda for europe because mac chrome is the mastermind of digital tong. micron is the one ones right now. the only one apart from francis and all of them is the only one wants to dialogue with russia. so you know, mac wrong will be the measure obstacle in the years to come. even because micron closely tied to germany and also germany or in they live shoals and the angle medical, they hoped for a micron selection. because micro selection will give life to the. but he's battling axes and from the bet, but it's better the max is the bands, the future if you were. and of course, the future of europe, russia relations. can i ask a specifically about the economic sanctions? because you wrote the reason that these economic sanctions,
against most are both unprecedented and planned in advance. but i'm seeing more and more western analysts suggesting that the scale of the sections and specifically the effect on 3rd countries, how painful it is to the rest of the world. and maybe the biggest achilles heel. and that it may actually come back to her, the united states. do you think that there are indeed so well plan, do you think the united states are calculated accurately the rest of the world's ability and you know, willingness to carry the burden of the american decision? i did right. that they were very long, black and unprecedented. but i also did something they were mainly they were acted against the or b and union and only the 2nd level they were and they are aimed
at the weakening brush. why? because they might, the states is a well aware of one fact, no one can expel russia from the global markets. you simply can't, because russia is not the north korea, russia, russia is the major. do, sir, and explore that of energy goes all over the door. and secondly, as i said, the, the main goal of the main target was to, we can do european union. why? because the work union for the united states is a yes, a military ally, but the is also an economic rival. so the sink show regime was long planned and carefully studied to weaken the european union. and indeed, the 1st target of the sanctions regime, as you know, was the norm to stream to so by then the,
the walk through obama with them. for many years, the american political scientists criticized russia for using cruise power and extolled the american ability to exercise self. busy or smart power and when other players americans will not because they are forced to but because they genuinely one final official for themselves. getting these images that are of fun of the global common good as an author or an advocate of universal. busy rules and values, it will change as the result of this whole ukrainian affair. in my opinion, doesn't matter. we do crane war because they show a crisis of the united states and not to be sold. i mean, not now, not in the years to come because they might, the states administration not made too many mistakes in the recent years.
the 1st for firstly, i mention at water, you know, the world, there are an incredible impact not only in the rest of the world, but also on the west. for instance, my country, the impact on the public opinion was very huge. there was a growth, an incredible growth of american. he's in the wake of the world better because of the death office. and i'm saying because of the death of more monica, which was one of the best allies, you know, and he was wildly killed. ok. so i think the image of the way the states is and their mind they and their mind themselves was undermined by themselves. and the outcome of this
war of the peace of the 3rd world warranty will not impact significantly on the image of the united states. on the contrary, it do we look for their all our eyes, the war blocks. ok, well mr. pierre born, we have to take a very short break right now, but we will get back in just a few moments they can. mm. mm. oh hm. only one main thing is important for knox ism internationally speaking. that is, that nations that's allowed to do anything, all the mazda races, and then you have the minor nation. so the slave americans, proc obama and others have had
a concept of american exceptionalism. international law exists as long as it serves the american interest. if it doesn't, it doesn't exist by turning those russians into this dangerous boy, man that wants to take over the world. that was a conscious strategy and walked out of it on your own. i not. felicia stood off to observe on and tablet block. nato said, it's hours, we move east and the reason us had gemini, is so dangerous, is it? the law is the sovereignty of all the countries. the exceptionalism that american uses and its international war planning is one of the greatest threats to the populations of different nations. if nature, what is bad, the shareholders in the united states and elsewhere in large obs companies would lose millions and millions, or is business and businesses good. and that is the reality of what we're facing,
which is fashion with ah, with an italian author and political since mister peter, one before the break, we talked about this transition to a new world order. russia, grievances with the current system of american dominants are well known. i think they're almost ontological in nature. but you suggested that much of the global south also has a stake in this transition. what are the potential benefits in just throwing out washington for the rest of the globe? excluding ration made benefits. let's only think about
working a many of washington so most trusted allies, historical ice like india. so your area and brazil, and brazil is that it will never light. it's was the show because it didn't. america as the have the side, the side with russia, they knew towns who are to buy a dose, call to arms against russia. why. 1 did so that because that when people are doing is also elite for them for they have a global aspiration. so they are citing with russia because we are here before the west against the breast and the west. although all this time, since the end of the cold war ignored the interest of the rest of the ward.
this is why by them was surprised by their refusal. the refusal of their refusals coming from countries like saudi arabia and brazil. but many political analysts like me when and surprise the rest of the war is a watch in these war. and these are saving with russia because the event will defeat the western not on the military terms, but on diplomatic terms. and also on economic terms. because if you, if you, if you don't join the sanctions regime against russia, you are fighting with russia implicitly. so the rest of the war deciding with russia hopefully to capitalize them, what people are can see. you also suggested that your brain is both a battlefield and any go shaping table for the already ongoing 3rd world war in
peace is. that's a very interesting phrase. what exactly do you mean, and how's it different from the previous world wars when they speak about the war, the war in these, i'm using the concept which was popularized by frances, in the wake of the war. and it is what political scientist used to call great power competition. what the press as are name called war 2. and it is different. ok, compared to the previous war war because it is a formal the great powers are not war, but this war is called there. and they are fighting across the globe by noon. so sometimes the color shows us even worse. the reason the result of 30 is more and the new kind of weapons like
cyber attacks and the cognitive wars. so it's much more different than in the past . i think you also mentioned that there is a, in one of the articles that there is a shift towards the periphery. is that the many of the facilities start that the prefers. and that got me and thinking about tolkien books in which protagonists 1st fight for their own land. and then they come together to fly for the so called middle earth. and to some extent ukraine has a turkey, syria, they're all sort of middle lands. they are positioned right between, you know, other big players and potentially they have a lot to gain, but also a lot to lose. i think the case of afghanistan is, is a very good one. it's a very rich country in terms of mineral resources. it's allocated geographically in
a very advantageous position, but for decades it's been ravaged by conflict. what do you think is this my strategy in this day and age for such middle earth powers? how should they get, conduct that policy to maximize the benefit and minimize the chances for conflict? well, the best strategy could be the following dialogue with everyone alignment with no one. but we are in the mid bill of the war war in peace. so no, great, we're not, the russia will accept from the as far worse, a full non alignment. if i were to work, if i were a, because that's them, i would suggest a, you won't be missing my country. okay,
you are welcome. you want to use that money to put it. you're going to ask me, your money is not welcome, but it will be very r on the do train war as being the work or should moment of our era. for it, we'd war some the position or follow both just surgically position and countries like us. you said because i found to work you guys some but to not only them and it would be very hard, much harder done today to be non aligned to the next truck. now we mentioned a frances a couple of times and he's an interesting figure. he's been involved in the ukranian conflict, diplomatically since it's very beginning of the site. some of that involvement was quite controversial. for example, a couple weeks ago he posed with a nationalist, ukrainian nationalist. so i would have been saying, you know, not a banner, but
a few days ago, he made some very bold. and i would say politically incorrect statements about this war, saying that it was caused by, quote, need to barking at russia's door, which he said to cause the kremlin to quote, react badly and unleash the conflict. but what's the significance of this statement like this coming from one of the worlds and one of the west, most prominent spiritual leaders, i cannot think about any other leader of the so called western world to say something along those lines. well, i wasn't surprised at all when i read the book statements because the book now let's say it's a fun book francis, just like his predecessor, he's a fan of the multiple or transition and they gave it to way for
a normalization of the holy see russia relations, why need so? because they are knowledge, the fact that the west cannot be or increased again. the west is lost to the west and throughout the post christian era. and the holy sea is both a political and the spirit, while power. i think it is the only purely spiritual power of the war. and so the vatican thinks about politics, economics, but also about spirituality and francis, just like his predecessor. so in russia, the so called biblical catholic on a gas, the civilizational decline in favor of studies, asian. ready traditions, this is why the holy scene has tried in the recent years to approach to russia,
and that has the spouse itself from the west. for instance, the holy c back, the russia operation in syria. the only see tried to normalize relations with as well. the holy see all the play, they're all doing the obama era, you know, the signing of the nuclear deal. and this is why the holy see right now is trying to escalate the cry between the west and the russia. and by means of those very strong. the corporation because they are very strong or francis center site, you know, to go to europe, the united states and russia, the holy see wants peace. and i would like to be part of the, of the disagreement. you said that the you weren't so surprised by po francis's
statement, but as i was reading american accounts of it and then how is it? i think there was a lot of this, me, a lot of anger, some questioning of the pope's cognitive ability and his wisdom. do you think washington downtown should use sanctions against the whole thing? because clearly what the pope is saying goes very vividly against what the, by the administration and the rest of the was, is trying to push as the, as the truth. well, you know, sanctions are the best tool of the mighty states foreign policy. so they could try to sanction the book. i think the united states some are magically will for their why the distance with a policy that will not do it openly. but they will
the with for the, brought this optimization agenda in the rest of the war. because against the background of the war, war in peace against the background of the west, russia confrontation of the seen american confrontation, there is another war taking place across the globe. and the d as a the war inside the christianity, there is capitalism against brought to stone sharks. the growth, the global growth of the sun sharks is mainly driven by the mighty states. so the mighty states might well or apply to the pulse, a strong position. if they were in russia, by for their funding and accelerating, sometimes a shop several countries. when mister pitt, they're gone, this is a very interesting conversation. unfortunately,
we are out of time. but the only thing i would say is that regardless of which confession christian confessions they belong to or even which religion would belong to. because many abrahamic religions have a very similar themes. as the bible says lasted the peacemakers, because they will be called children of god. let's hold both francis or whoever wants to make a contribution to resolving this conflict will succeed but to the time being. thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with fully agree with you. and thank you very much again for the invitation. and thank you for watching hope to see you again on worlds apart. ah. with me
a approval of a new $40000000000.00 usa package. the ukraine is delayed by republican senator party launchers, special coverage focused on the unfold. stories of ukrainian refugees who fled to russia claim and they were given to help to save the complex with. my son is a ukrainian soldier while crossing the border. i didn't hide anything to my son honestly, told me mom, go to the russian border, go to russia. they will help you with residents of done yet a little guns take part in victory day celebrations. as a more peaceful life, slowly returns the cities in the dom bus. but the gears of being on the phone line .