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tv   Worlds Apart  RT  March 7, 2023 5:30pm-6:01pm EST

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forgive when the west claims, otherwise it means it's losing ah mm hm. mm hm. welcome to worlds apart. after taking stuff, congratulating itself on the long piece, europe is now in the midst of a blood and possibly quite protracted conflict. what led to it and how long it may take until peace returns? well, to discuss that, i'm now enjoined by going our back european parliament member, representing alternative for germany. mr. beckett is great to talk to you. thank you very much for being available. my pleasure. good afternoon to you. now,
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let me start with a personal question because alternative for germany, even in russia, is often portrayed as this party. and i didn't know how to put a diplomatically somewhat cuckoo than not particularly enlightened waters. and yet, judging from york a dummy background, you have an advanced degree in law. you taught in oxford than the london school of economics. you wrote the book on emmanuel con with such as scholarly and intellectual background. why did you off with this particular party? well, let me make 2 points 1st. it's greg. yes, i did study motel small box and also be in politics at oxford university. and i've written books on emmanuel can legal reasoning and the european court of justice, the scholarly books, and they are not badly political. now, there was
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a common misconception that if you will receive the decent education, you know, when they turn into a good politically correct, liberal, internationalist, and perfectionist. and that is not by you. i think the purpose of the occasion is to make you critical, including self critical and enlightened, and it should enable you to question received wisdoms and prevalent opinions. and that's what i've been doing all along. now to my 2nd point, the a s d is a young party and what you've tried to put bother as well, possibly diplomatic leash and i think 2 things to bad mind. we are young party, which means we have lots of adults are politicians. it is correct to say that some
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of my colleagues had, perhaps not always chosen the most no last and diplomatic way of putting it. however, in matters of politics, you also sometimes have to be political to express uncomfortable tooth. and then secondly, you can imagine we are party that his questioning practically every aspect of the political consensus in west germany. in particular since the war. there's a relentless campaign being waged to get stuff by the publicly own. finance media says there is currently a really landless propaganda campaign against russia and president ford by the same media, germany. speaking about the matter of politics, i know that in the european parliament you are a member of the identity and democracy group as well as a participant of the conference on the future of europe. how do you see the relationship between identity and democracy and do they have any place in the
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future of europe? well, 2 questions, really, are you asking here the relationship is a close one. we know that if you democratic countries that they don't have a strong sense of identity, usually that's offensive national identity, their i exception switzerland is very good example. although you could say they have a sense of national identity based on the particular political emancipation struggle against imperial powers around them. so it's, as it has an identity which is multinational and the same to some extent could be said about the united states. however, in europe, democracy has generally involved in the case in the, in the context of nation states. now to the 2nd part of your question, whether the answer is fairly clear. democracy and
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identity, especially national identity in western europe under threat, mrs. fonda, the president of the european commission has announced that she was to bring dub moves of millions of non european people to europe in the next 10 to 15 years. in my view, national identity cannot survive such a massive influx of people that had no cultural roots in europe. and if i may point, i've done the calculations on that roughly as present. one 3rd of germany's population is partly for in origin. if present trends of immigration continue even then to diminish level, it is the job of birth rate remains as low as it stays. germany will cease to be
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a good majority german country by something like 2035. and miss about can i ask somebody here for a 2nd because i'm sure you know what the people on the other side of the political spectrum would say. they would see your comments as xena phobic. but having read what you have said about migration, i think you're making more of a sudden, social, an institutional argument that it takes, you know, a certain percentage of people rooted in society, rooted in its culture, rooted in its ways of lives. to preserve that way of life and to develop it and to move it forward. why do you think and i mean the field of cell. so c o g, so well developed across europe. i mean there is a department, the facility in any major university. why is it not taken as a practical consideration? why is it always discussed within the framework of ethnicity or skin color? where's you know, traditions they do have certain and very practical value for ensuring stable and
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comfortable lives. well, you've put my point very clearly. i need deliberate on it. i think a society can be stabilized by very great rapid changes will so in this field, immigration, now why isn't this perfectly sensible view, which was column place in europe until about 30 years ago. nowadays, ostracized is some kind of al tries the xenophobic view. now reason for this. ringback seems to be quite clear because the kind of liberal agenda we see in the west now is not merely reason based, but it's kind of crazy. i religious creed and they are trying to crowd out all sorts of realistic practical objections. so that vision of creating a kind of city on the hill on okay,
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can i ask about one other thing that has much more direct relevance to where i am in russia and where my relatives are in the ukraine? i'm talking about the war in europe, and i think here again, another very important repeat in tradition was if not broken, then totally rejected. and i'm talking about this and notion of the european balance of power or balance of security. because europe, as we all know, has, has had many wars, but one of the results of that war is a certain diplomatic and international relations culture. dot is rooted in the balance of interest in the balance of power. and for a long time, it was respected. and you know, one could argue that the long piece that i mentioned in the beginning was also a result of that. but this tradition seems to be truly rejected in the case of ukraine, because no russia,
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security interest i even taken into consideration and haven't been taken for quite some time. and secondly, the europeans have fully put all their, you know, secure disabilities in the american basket. why would it happen to europe that has been tried and tested by war so many for so for such a long time? well, the sad fact is that the large, the last great european wall is now what is it really a, it was happened a few years ago. my mother experienced it as a child and the last thing she would ever want is it not a war and her ration for the most part is prepared to do all this to avoid it, but most europeans dom i gotta go now and we've seen significant changes in new patient system, where history are often starts in the post war era, so much is forgotten. i think that is one reason. secondly,
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i think you are slightly misrepresenting the tradition of realism and european thinking. i agree, it's very important tradition, but because you're dominated intellectually for several centuries, practically, or other traditions of liberal of international relations also originate in europe. so if you take a manual and he was the 1st to introduce the notion of the league of nations. this is a more ideal regarding tradition in european international relations thinking. so the realist tradition is why important one? absolutely right. it's been forgotten. i think the reason this part be that europe is a much diminished continent. the europeans don't lead anywhere any longer. and if you
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are in a position of importance, well, some people do is they want to be at least the last, the greatest moral superpower on the world in the world. and i think that's part of what is motivating europe here. it's certainly motivating john. while i hear, you know, i'm and studying psychology on the side, i have a great interest in depth psychology of carl young. and that he has actually explore the trends in the collective unconscious quite extensively. he wrote a lot about the knots, a phenomenon as, as a suppression of who you truly are. and you know, when i, when i see these people that are also referring to only concerns with the future. only concerned with that illusions, and not being informed by the past, by their own history. you know, it comes across as a form of self only nation and that form of self in li nation. we know it from psychology, always produces hatred,
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then not just hatred of somebody else. it's usually also self hatred that dan is projected on to other nations. do you think it has anything to do with the current demonization of russia? perhaps other countries like china, where you run death is slightly mono co cause or what you're saying. and of course, but there are, there is element readers need. sure it is a characterization of religions makes a very similar point. i myself made the point that impotence maybe at the source of it diminished position of ha, i think in the case of russia, there's another element. russia is little understood in western europe. a final point is that west germany, in particular, has been integrated into western structures for 7070 by years now with it
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went of a great amount of propaganda and a integration into western systems and thinking through education. if you look at east germany, i come from west germany, but in east germany, i think there is a much greater skepticism towards the received western liberal narrative. so it's partly an east west to buy the euro, of course, and to present matters complicated and from russia's position. not necessarily the favorable way, because only 30 years ago for 35 years ago, the soviet union dominated eastern europe. so i think the prevalent set set of concerns in eastern europe is security concerns. ok. well mister back, we have to take a very short break right now for the sake of our editorial security,
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but we will be back in just a few moments. stay tuned. ah ah, i'm exemptions and i'm here to plead with you whatever you do, you do not watch my your shelf seriously by watch something that's so different opinions that you won't get anywhere else. look, if it pleases you to have the state department, the cia weapons makers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations, choose your facts for you. go ahead by change and whatever you do. don't watch my show, stay mainstream, because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direct impact, but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just changed to wayne think
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ah, one come back to one's apartments with our back european parliament member, representing alternative for germany and mr. brand before they break, we discussed on this multi faceted and very complicated attitude that some germans have towards russia. and i've heard you say in one of the other interviews that many of your colleagues at the european parliament as filled with hatred. not only for russia, but for the kind of conservative traditionalism that russia represents. do you think these people who are filled with hatred, do they even understand what russia tries to leave out in the world? what it tries to base it's and identity on where you have to realize that the
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european parliament you have about one on one and a half minutes. so i often have to use shorter traditional conservatism with such a short term. i see the other factors that play, of course, in russia, i think certain basic issues such as decent standard of living, ask you a better you. the government has to be very concerned about security, basic comforts to the population. that's one aspect. and the other a point is in your good, i think historically education has suffered. so for many europeans, they tend to reject ebc class to something like $960.00. so the, his history starts with the sexual and cultural revolution of the 1960 s. and then
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reject anything that went on before. so i think that is part of the problem. most of our decision makers in europe now operate in a strictly a historical manner. they sometimes draw historical parallels, but they are in full. now you mentioned their rushes. a government can focus on the standards of living and european positions on the country. often talk about in spirit and aspirational and inspirational values, but ensuring basic safety. ensuring basic services is not just the value in, since you 2 of the government and maybe it's just my russian vice. but i want to part of the problem here is indeed the, to the conflict between governmental duties and governmental aspirations. and the again, the total rejection of the europeans of the former, because if we can analyze the recent decisions,
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including the abandoning of all trade with russia, it looks like the living standards of european citizens are not the 1st priority. absolutely. i think for the last 25 years living standards for at least half the population in most of europe has not improved. it's as simple as that. now they are declining as a result of the inflation, which is at least hardly a result of the corona lockdown class, the medicine you cray, and the kind of inspirational and aspirational value catalogue that our politicians are constantly invoking. these ideas are very far removed from the concerns of most people. so yes, in that respect. yeah, absolutely right. most european governments are failing their people and possibly that's also why then at the core of the ukrainian crisis. because i think the
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government of russia for years have been stating that they have a duty to protect their interest secured inches. it's not just an aspiration of val, it's something that we have to act upon. we have our military for that precise reason, but all we heard in response was there some aspirational values of some european politicians and the ukrainians. now, i wonder if this congress, if this dilemma between you know, hard duties and aspirational valleys, if it could have been resolved without and are constantly given your understanding what's been happening in your brain, not i have from february of last year, but a couple of tickets prior to that, i see you've given me a group time horizon that makes answering the question easier. because i think that be very little. i mean, the attitude of russia immediately in the immediate coast war pursued to was west of your own country. taken has been remarkably generous.
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it very few countries have treated germany as well as russia has. in the last 33 to 34 years of russia agreed to read of vacation without the body practically anything would return that. i didn't want to say that this is on the way russia treat, inch as germany. this is a historic tradition of resolving conflict for russia. was the same case with napoleonic wars, russia, welcoming friends back into the family of european countries, not taking any contribution. and it's a consistent and philosophical approach that the russian state has taken over centuries, not just over down. and i gave you one example that i knew about best. so what there was, if you want me to put it in both general tubs, there was a very, a distinct approach to seek clemson relations with west west of
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europe. and thus be largely, well, not wholly rebuffed. so there was very little that russia got in return, so if you constantly bake concessions, if you constantly baker shows and very little comes in return. well then at some stage you bate change your approach. and i think what we have to realize is that europe, together with and driven off by the united states, did move closer to russia in russia, accepted a great deal of each east with expansion. so the europeans thought, and the american science you, they could just march ever forward. and they are now surprised that russia doesn't agree. now the european syfy are genuinely surprised. the americans, i think, have a more rational attitude. they regarded beau as a kind of power. again,
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the european so often distracted by their own ideas thinking well, i guess it's easy to be ideal as to when times are good and i've heard many experts say that the e u. u. s. partnership was always on american terms, but at least you had the benefit of foreign direct investment and relatively fair trade. but it's no longer the case. i think the terms of your partnership, it's changing very rapidly. you're bound to give much more and receive much, much less there. i mean, the american policy towards euro is pretty hawkish and if not predator at this point of time, given the industrial capacities that, that are being transferred to the united states. now how long do you think it will take until the european voters know the european politicians, but the european voters will fill the pinch and will demand something, something different from their leaders? well, you've chosen very harsh words,
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hawkish and credit rare. i like to defend the united states in this regard. they are just being rational from the point of view. i think it's a european reaction that's very naive and food in the fall to the europeans, primarily, who allow themselves to be put in that position. the united states is just doing was in the interest to be fair, but you are in another respect, i think, after the war, during the cold war, the united states required compliance in military and foreign policy matters. but they, in turn, could guarantee high living. that's come to lead the alliance with the united states. western integration is becoming increasingly expensive for your many europeans as yet to minority awakening to it. but hardly any of our
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politicians are. so there is a dichotomy, how long it will take. i cannot tell you by when can i ask her? this is something that is absolutely puzzling to many of us in russia, and particularly those who live in saint petersburg, which is a city with huge german heritage and various strong cultural ties with germany. and this is also a city where many of the gas projects originated. for example, the north stream pipelines were built up from the, from that side of the baltic cost and given all the explosions and the recent statements. for example, from hungry. i'm hungry, prime minister, or been saying that he doesn't exclude a possible repeat of such incidents. i just wonder, do you think the europeans would ever want to know what actually happened to, you know, that own energy infrastructure on the, i mean, i understand their fear of russia, but i'm the fearful that something like that could happen in europe at this day in
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age, with the love a clear questions, i can give you clear answers. no european governments don't want to know. the european people for the most part, have a suspicion. what happened? or, and of course they, they couldn't care less or, or what? there is an oppressive climate which makes it very difficult to call a spade a spade because our government has systematically avoided a serious investigation of who carried out the attacks that intimidated they do not wish it. they don't, well, they know that they don't wish it to be widely known. i know you've heard of that, but the russia has experience a number of terrorist attacks by ukrainian militants yesterday. and i think it's pretty clear that if the war will come, ever closer to russia,
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russia will respond. do you think people in europe understand that? you know, that the time for illusions is over. it's in there is a real war on the ground in russia, ukraine, and if it continues, it may come to europe as well. no, they don't understand that probably speaking. i think some people as some kind of a mobile amorphous sphere, but the last great war happened so long ago that most people think this method can somehow be localized if they were fully aware that it is poor, may escalate. and because there's an interesting paradox, let's assume the west is right and they can really push russia better get you cray, or to push russia back for to the so can you can yes, well out of the army you. yes, i'm just trying to sub summarize what some people i think he missed. they will
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argue, craig, such an extent, that because russia isn't sending his whole army in, they may push russia back. i don't think that most europeans have an adequate conception, that in these circumstances, a great power like russia, well respond with any means at its disposal. i'd like to be, i'd like to leave it as it is that it's clear what i mean. i guess the most europeans are aware of this. absolutely not. and so what the united states, also with china. i mean, it's, it says, you know, international politics want to one. i mean, it's the, the basic thing that the people study in international affairs class. now can i ask in the last, the very last question because you don't sound very optimistic, but what's your best home for the next couple of years as far as russia, europe and the whole world is concerned. yes, you're right. i know by disposition,
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an optimist, and the last decade has generally proved me right. but obviously we'll have to do what we can do. so said that even at the end, tomorrow we should count at least one last tree. so i think we have to reach an understanding that you, craig, this war has to be brought to an end. i can't give you an easy solution of what this might be. but what i do know is that this war is a grave danger to your it is already backing our economy is no one is not doing anyone any good, certainly not in europe. so we have to do what we can to educate. mr. back has been great pleasure talking to thank you very much for your time. thank you and i couldn't agree more with with your last words. thank you very much. thank you for watching hope this or again on well to part. ah
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with mm. oh ah ah
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ah ah processed as in george your attempt to stone the country's parliament amid clashes with police and people rally, i guess a draft know that would brown some media outlets foreign agents. american non german reports claim that a pro ukrainian group was behind the bombing of the node stream pipelines. the russia cause it's an attempt to shift the blame from the alleged western roll revealed.


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