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tv   [untitled]    September 11, 2012 6:30am-7:00am PDT

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particularly not the construction period but when people are in there, you have to have some quiet, so i think that's something we can remedy. i don't think we can do so much about the parking unless we send them back and have them redesign the project. >> i was talking at one point but not very much. i believe -- i'm the publicist from the marsh, from everything we have heard, we were unaware of everything that the architect just said. i know we would welcome that. our main concern is we cannot tolerate sound bleed and if you're in a highly dramatic moment and you hear something, the whole thing is spoiled, we're concerned about that and we're concerned about potential costs that we would do to our building as a result of the construction of theirs, they have money, they can exist without us but we may not be able to exist if we -- we're a
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non-profit, we survive the best we can, so we're very concerned about those two things so we're happy about sound issues and if they can be dealt with, that would be a huge help. >> we could as conditions of approval, we could ask them to do some kind of sound attenuation to a level that would be acceptable, however, in terms of what may be needed to do to your building as far as shoring or other things, that would be a dbi issue that would have to be taken up, there is an issue if a building is right beside another one, if it has impacts on a building because something done to another it, they have to have preventive measures from melting or something but that's not something that comes before us but other improvements you have to make to your building that are already needed would not be something that they would have to do, so -- >> the other issue, if i may to say so is ventilation and light
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because it will block an entire wall of our building and the ventilation, there won't be any cross ventilation upstairs in our certain areas of our upstairs, the classroom where we teach drama, that whole wall will only have one window, also the backside of the building which is our dressing room area, that wall will no longer have a window with ventilation or light, that's another strong issue for us. we need some mitigating lentbacker ventilation, whether or not it comes in -- i'm not a designer, but from the top or some other direction, sky lights or smrg to cover that problem. >> i guess it's property line windows, so that's something we could certainly think about, we'll see if the project sponsor is interested in putting a skylight in for you because trying to put a matching light all around that
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might be quite a redesign deal. okay, thank you, that gives me an idea of the two impacts i'm hearing the most of and then from staff, i just have a here have been representations about the height of the areas of the building and i know this is compliant with the plan, you know, the mission plan and the mission neighborhoods plan, but is it true that there are buildings up xw are fairly close by? >> that's correct, it's a pretty varied hiekt, primarily two and three storeys tall but there are definitely a range of buildings along valencia street. >> and this is 112 at the highest point, as it goes uphill street, it drops down to around 70 or something, if i'm reading these renderings right. >> no, no, no. >> the hiekt is 55 feet.
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>> well, yeah, i'm surprised, okay, i'm not sure why these totals, this looks to me like 55 on here but somebody has 112, 97 on here, maybe it's in another direction, i'm not sure, these plans have two different height ts, we're dealing with 55 feet then. that makes more sense. okay, thank you. >> commissioner hillis? >> i think its concern is that the comments we heard from the marsh, from the project sponsor, we have this list of mitigation and kind of what they'd like to see happen during construction and before construction, have you had a chance to look at this? >> commissioner, we've had a couple of meetings with them and we're over there with their operations manager and we told them now is the time to get
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started on this, is there a drainage issue, we actually suggested putting in an operable sky light to augment the one window they have back there. ventilation, they have a non-compliant ventilation system that goes down that drops down into their theatre that has no back holes or anything on it. they have a 7 inch hole in the wall, this is all easy to fix stuff and we've asked them to let us come in and evaluate what needs to be done now before we get started so that we're not busy on something else because these are easy fixes, not easy, easy, but it's completely manageable and i understand their position being a non-profit, etc.. >> right, how about the construction, no construction after 3:30, you know, no construction on weekends, you know, which i would think is
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reasonable. >> this was all brought up at their board meetings and we let them know, let us know when there's something going on. >> so, you're amenable to that? >> we're amenable to that, it's astounding how quiet it is in there, there's a five space hallway that runs all the way up on the property line with our building so there's a five foot hall way, dead space, plus they have a utility closet there, then they have another room that they use for dressing so the theatres are completely isolate framed the property line, it's astounding how quiet it is up there. >> it might be quiet now but it may not be quiet when construction is happening. >> i stood up there, you can't hear anything, we're completely willing to pitch in and get it done. there's no big -- i don't see
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any big obstacle there, we just have to go down there and do it. >> commissioner sugaya? >> i forget what i was going to say. >> do you want me to come back to you? >> no, i'll start off and think about it. i'm quite sympathetic to the marsh, i was a board member of women's will, so all women's shakespeare company that resided in various places around the bay area depending on where, here and there they used to live but they utilized all kind of business, i don't know if they performed at the marsh or not, and then we did have last week or the week before an issue before us involving the sun dance theatre in japan town and there's a restaurant that wanted to have live entertainment and the
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demising wall between the theatre and the restaurant was not a structural wall so there was issues of sound bleed into the theatre space, so i think we recently have been confronted with sound transmission issues into theatre areas. i don't know what the vote will be, i'm in favor of most of the project. i think it's too big. i think that some design changes could be made. that could lessen the sort of bulk and scale of the building. it might be some height changes but i don't want to get into designing it right this second, but that i think needs to be discussed among the commissioners. with respect to the issues that mr. hillis and commissioner antonini were talking about, it seems as though the developer's quite willing to work with the
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theatre in terms of the specific issues that were just discussed. i think that related to drainage, ventilation, light, realizing that some of that is due to property line issues and i heard him say he's willing to put in a skylight or some kind of ventilation. anyway, that might be part of any motion that we make. with respect to noise transmission, i think there are two issues for me anyway, one is noise that emanates from the completed building, whatever form that building takes, it's going to be residential with ground floor retail. i would not think that the operation or the use of that building for those purposes will generate any kind of overt noise problems. the issue of the rear yard which is a deck on the second
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level or above the first level anyway, you know, we're not going to get rid of the open space, so i'm not sure exactly how to address that, that will have to be partially, there might be some sound attenuation along the property line wall, that can be part of a motion and any kind of -- something that tells the tenants or the owners that there is this issue and that there is a theatre next door i think would be good on the part of the landlord or the home owners association or whatever, as far as noise during construction, that's a different issue, it's going to be temporary but it will affect the theatre if it's overtly noisy. even though we were told that the theaters are inside, there are standard hours, i don't know, staff, can we impose any further conditions on construction hours, or is that
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out of our jurisdiction? >> i believe you can but currently the construction hours are restricted between 8 and 7. >> well, we can discuss that. >> i'm going to chime in for a second and agree with -- i'm sympathetic to the marsh but i think there's clearly a communication breakdown between the two here and for some of the items like commissioner sugaya laid out, i guess maybe we can go through one by one and call them out, but they seem solvable and to do some soundproofing and some noise abatement, the skylight offer seems to be genuine, hours of construction, to the project sponsor, this is maybe a 12 month, 14 month project? and i have no idea what the marsh's schedule is, although we have a brochure here, if there's a seasonality to it, they can perform some of the
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work when you're dark, i don't know, but i imagine the conversation could go a little bit further and figure out bh the best time to do work close to the marsh would be. is there any pile driving to this project? and there's two bmr units on site? >> yes. >> and you have one space for one casing -- car, whether it's it's for one tenant in the building or car share. is there any bike space parking? >> there's bike space parking for both the retail and the residents, there's a gear dump area with lockers, and there's also a workbench so people can wrench on their bikes. >> so, from a security point, i
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would be okay with asking for some kind of bike parking requirement. >> they have bike parking. >> they do, okay. >> 28 spaces. >> 28 spaces, thank you. let's see what other commissioners feel, commissioner wu? >> i'm happy to hear all of the support for the marsh, i add myself to that list of commissioners, i happen to live in this neighborhood, i live about five blocks away, i take transit everywhere, i take transit to the commission with my board packet every week so i think it's workable to have a building with no parking. another issue i heard a lot about is affordable housing. i wish today we had 100% affordable housing but we don't, i think the best they can do is put their bmr's on site to encourage the diversity within one building. i also want to point out that
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there's no displacement of tenants and that's important, it is an opportunity to build residential without having to move anyone off-site. i am open to some ideas about physical changes but i'm not sure from -- well, on the affordable housing issues and the noise issues, the physical issues don't change that, the site is not in or don't alleviate those concerns, the site is not in the actual liberty hill historical district, so i'm sort of somewhere in the misleading -- middle around whether we should take dr to make design changes? >> commissioner moore? >> this project's a challenge to me because of what i believe in the intent of the eastern neighborhoods, there is a rigor in the way this building presents a response which i am
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concerned about. it has been my concern all along that bh the rubber hit it is road and you come to physical design, rather than to zoning, that there is a trailing legislation that does not require the sensitive transition from old to new, so [inaudible] kind of structure which does not on the transitional corners respect what is there. my request for an architect would be to do something where you transition from a five storey to the adjoining buildings, particularly as this building now tries to address hill street, i think his response to hill street has to be really more reflecting of the general character of that street. that doesn't mean it has to mimic the adjoining height or
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it needs to make a gesture. i would like to remind this commission on the discussion and the long battle we had when we discussed the change from pottery barn at the corner of poke and pacific and while we acknowledged the inherent height and zoning on the corner, we did require that it meet and make down to the adjoining properties and that didn't mean it had to exactly mimic the hiekt but it had to make a gesture and i think that is one of the biggest challenges that we do as massive an overlay of rezoning in the eastern neighborhoods as we do here where we have large prevailing strong neighborhoods and i'm looking for referencing -- i'm talking about the existing basic structure of the area and we don't have any rules which require an adjustment. i find at this moment the bay
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window response, one way of creating scale as to whether or not it's fully worked out, i would say no. and i'm referring to this particular drawing i'm not going to sit here and redesign it, but the response, this is a horizontal page, i think there needs to be more work done on the building. i'm very comfortable with the developer trying to be more responsive and open to discussing with the marsh, some of the real big survival issues, but i do believe there has to be more work on the architecture including on the transitioning to both streets in order to make this building more contextual i would say, although i hate that word. >> if i may, and i don't know if we want to redesign at this
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point, but if you look at one of the pages, it's labeled 25 and it looks down hill street and i'm picking up on commissioner moore's comments because you look at the red building where valencia and hill come together, and there's a clear step down, right. commissioner antonini. >> thank you, we're putting some renderings up there, it's hard to see on the screen, the ones on the right are the earlier ones and i think they were a little bit more sensitive than the newer one which has the rounded larger bay, and also if you can't tell now but the older version had more [inaudible] in the window and is the newer version just had two, when you see it on the
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screen, you can't see it well when you're looking at it on the page, i would encourage to work with staff to see if we can make the building as less imposing as possible because although you like a strong corner, that really large bay element there really emphasizes the height a little bit more of the building whereas the more discrete units that we had and the one on the right seems to make it as more individual units. the other thing i wanted to point out, commissioner moore was talking about stepping out to hill street, it looks like we have an element that's over of what appears to be the only garage, that is a good transition there, there isn't any transition between the marsh building but that is on a bigger street. it's valencia has higher buildings.
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so, i'm generally happy with approving it, but i would like to see what the other commissioners have to say, but i would like to approve it but with the conditions regarding changes made to the marsh for sound, attenuation and for sky light tos allow them to have light into where they lose their property line windows. >> commissioners, a couple of things, i wanted to make sure because i heard a couple of different things, the issue with the corner, there is a technical problem in the code in terms of how the bay is done in the corner and i agree with the architect, this code language goes back a long ways, it's clunky and does contribute to this but there is a technical problem, but the question i think on the transition to hill street is a somewhat different question, what i heard you all say is that you wanted some more transition on the hill street side or i heard some of you saying that, i think it's important that we get that
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clear. i think if you're talking about stepping the building down further, that's a different issue than what happens at the corner, and i think it would be helpful if the commission could be clear on that. if i may, just the other issue is because the marsh is a separate property you cannot make it a condition of approval that they make the improvements on the marsh, you could encourage them to do so, you could ask the project sponsor to put it on the record that they will do so but you cannot make it a condition of approval. >> okay. >> commissioner borden. >> yeah, i do want to join -- first, the commissioners supporting the marsh theatre, i'm glad to have your schedule, i always walk by and wonder if you're having a show. i think you've heard here that we want to do something to make sure that this theatre is not impacted, i live across the street from a construction site and i know sometimes there's noise and in my case, very
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early morning. in terms of the building, i think they're doing a lot of positive things with the on-site bmr's t no parking and it's true we spend a lot of hours, commissioner moore and i because many of our other commissioners couldn't be participate ining that process for other reasons but recused by law, we think about shrieks -- heights, this is transit rich, you're close to the bart, you have the jay church, other muni lines, we spend a lot of time figuring out what that is, we had all these different conversations and i wish some of you had been part of these discussions because this is
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where we are today, that's still separate and apart from the design of this building and whether the building is responsive but to the extent that the building is 55 feet, that is the case, and i understand why there might be some sort of tension with the project sponsor not understanding what's being requested by the community and likewised, i can understand why they feel the project sponsor should be doing something different. i would hope that in the faou -- future that we can all come together because everybody has to be neighbors and co-exist in the city and we live closely to each other and we often have to deal with things we don't want to have to deal with, but it's worth the sacrifice because we live in a vibrant city that has a lot of great amenities, in terms of a building design, i feel that the earlier rendering
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is better, more respectful, i believe that the vertical articulation makes the building look taller, i think that the step-down on hill street is really clunky, it's tall and then a tiny, for me, it seems really dramatic, i think a better stepping would be more respectful because it doesn't even -- you could even do something a little smaller, the building next door is not even that short, you have this massive building and then something really low entrance, to me, it seems clunky in that regard. in terms of the valencia street side, i understand this property is zoned as part of the mcd, it's not zoned as a residential property i know just a #lock down that the building that was built not long ago, maybe it has not opened it, it's also a tall building, but i think if we can
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look at this articulation, in this rendering, the colors more closely mimic the marsh, it looks in that -- with that and with the windows being very similar to the windows in the marsh building, it better translates the two properties together, so i know staff had made changes for -- because of other technical reasons, but if there's any way that we can kind of bring that back because this building from that rendering looks a lot less imposing than the new version of what we're talking about today and the other thing is i would work on the transition on the hill street side because i think it doesn't do anything to soften the larger rest of the building in my personal view. >> commissioner sugaya? >> yeah, i would agree with that. i think all of the commissioners have voiced that same opinion, one consideration might be to add a floor to the
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garage part and drop the fifth floor a bit or drop off the fifth floor on the hill street side and exchange units that way or something like that. it might introduce other neighborhood concerns if the backyard so-called goes up a storey, they miekt think, i'm not really a sound person, but you could conceive that a second floor open space, i'm not sure that's code compliant, but might have some sound transmission issues, the staff is shaking their head that that doesn't work. change the code. >> yeah, the rear yard needs to provide at their lowest residential level per code. that would be the only consideration within that scheme. >> what if we decide that we want it to be above that? >> the project sponsor could seek a variance from the planning code for that aspect
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of the project. which apparently was originally part of the proposal. >> okay, anyway, i'm not saying that's a solution but there may be a consideration to what i just said, putting another storey on top of the garage and dropping down the fifth floor, that's closest to hill street in some fashion, you know. it's just an idea, it doesn't have to be the solution. and i think with respect to the 55 feet and what's zoned as 55 feet, i mean, the eastern neighborhoods plan that we looked through, i know we looked at it property by property but we didn't get down to this particular location, what the context was and what the other considerations might be with respect to the building or with respect to a proposed building that might go on that site, so i think that this is an opportunity to take a closer
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look at it even though it says 55 feet, i think i'm quite comfortable with, you know, discussing something that isn't 55 feet uniformly all over the property and i think that's what commissioner moore and others have been voicing here too. i'm not sure how to craft a motion, i'm not sure if commissioner antonini has something in mind, apart from the marsh's concerns, i don't know if we do that, i don't know if it comes back here or not. >> i'm going to ask the project architect maybe to come up, i see you probably scratching your head here, you can see the direction that we want to try to go. before we go and redesign the building that you have spent a lot of time on, i'll give you an opportunity, do you have something in mind that might be able to reach --
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>> one idea that i have thought of that could address the marsh's concerns and the neighbor's concerns is to enclose it like a green house, i don't know if that requires a variance or if that could somehow be construed in an allowable open space. >> it's a code issue. >> yes, that would still require a variance because you're enclosing the open space. >> the one problem with -- this is not a single family house we're chopping something off the back, it makes the room smaller, it would impact a small unit and possibly lose one and honestly the project sponsor with all the opposition was teetering on this whole new ledge slaix reducing down to 9 units, this is very close right now, so i am sensitive to your concerns, i'm afraid to show the drawing i broukt of the original prol